SPIRIT RANGER
"These woods are dangerous for those who do not know the way. We're going to take a shortcut through this tree."
The word "ranger" always means a warrior who tramps around in the woods, but why he does and what he wears while doing it are subject to much debate. Those who think fo Rangers as champions of civilization charged to protect the frontiers should look to the "Ranger Lord."
Spirit rangers walk the woods because they love them, or at a bar eminimum dislike them less than humanoid society. They may begin as woodcutters, mercenaries, brigands, hunters, or adventurers, but whatever the reason, they find themselves spending longer and longer away from settled lands. And finally, after they've sojourned so long humanoid society is but a hazy memory, the forest talks to them. Some honor it as a god and appoint themselves its servants and defenders; some treasure it as a comrade, an ally and even a lover; others refuse to acknowledge it save as the voice of their own intuition, but all Rangers have heard the call of the Green Whisper.
From that point on, they are initiated into a deeper knowledge of woodcraft than is ordinarily possible. The voice leads them to hidden landmarks, helps them discover rare herbs, and protects them from wild beasts.
Alignment: Any. Rangers tend toward chaotic, as those who love order and social structure tend to approach the wilderness in more structured ways. The Green Whisper is generally benevolent, so rangers who follow its urging tend to become Good, but plenty of others simply use its power for thier own Neutral Ends. Evil Rangers may be convincd that the Whisper hates humanoidy, or they may simply be selfish bastards.
Races: Anyone who spends a lot of time in the wilds can become a ranger. Human and Half-elves frequently do so, while Elves are the only culture to have a deliberate tradition of creating Rangers. There are many Orc Rangers as well; the struggles between the two factions are as secretive as they are legendary.
HD: D8
BAB: Good
Fort: Bad
Ref: Good
Will: Bad
Skills: 6/level (Climb, Handle Animal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Geography, Nature, The Planes), Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Spot, Survival, Swim)
Proficiencies: light armor, all simple and martial weapons, and bucklers
1 First Spirit, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Woodlore
2 Speak with Animals, Animal Trance
3 Woodland Grace, Animal Messenger
4 Sneak Attack +1d6
5 Second Spirit, Alarm
6 Herbalist
7 Evasion
8 Sneak Attack +2d6
9 Tree Stride
10 Third Spirit
First Spirit: (Su) The Ranger makes a pact with a spirit of the wilderness. At each ranger level, he learns one aspect; he may only have one aspect active at a time. Changing aspects is a standard action.
Woodland Stride: see PHB
Trackless Step: see PHB
Woodlore: The save DCs for a ranger's spell-like abilities are 10+1/2 character level + WIS mod; this applies to all such abilities, whether derived from the class, from aspects, or from other sources.
Speak with Animals (Sp) at will
Animal Tance: (Sp) At will
Woodland Grace: (Ex) At 3rd level, the ranger adds his wisdom bonus to
all saves.
Animal Messenger: (Sp) At will
Sneak Attack: See PHB
Second Spirit: A fifth level Ranger may have two aspects active at any one time.
Alarm: (Sp) at will
Herbalist: At 6th level, a ranger may create a potion in 8 hours from herbs available in any natural environment. These potions may duplicate Cure Serious Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Remove Paralysis, Remove Disease. The Ranger may only have his wisdom bonus potions in existence at any one time; any further potions denature without his attention.
Evasion: See PHB
Tree Stride: (Sp) 3/day
Third Spirit: The Ranger may have three aspects active at once.
ASPECTS
Ally Aspect: (Su) As a Full-Round action, you may replicate the effects of Summon Monster I-IX, where the spell level is no greater than your ranger level or (Character Level+1)/2, whichever is lower. This effect only summons animals. Note that because this is a supernatural ability, it does not provoke. This is a summoning effect with an indefinite duration, ending when you use this ability again or deactivate this aspect. You may activate this effect even when you do not currently have the Ally Aspect active, activating it in place of one of your other aspects as part of the summoning action. If one or more of the summoned creatures dies, you cannot use this effect again for 1d4+1 rounds.
Swarm Aspect: (Su) As a full-round action, you may create a swarm, of small woodland creatures. This is a summoning effect with indefinite duration, ending when you use the ability again or deactivate the aspect. You may activate this ability even if you do not have this aspect active, activating it in place of another as part of the summoning action. The swarm's swarm damage is 1d3 per character level or 2d3 per class level, whichever is lower. Its HP are 5 X your character level. Its Distraction DC is 10+WIS. It moves 20 feet. It takes half damage from weapons. Level 3: Poison (1d3 dex) Level 5: Immune to slashing and piercing; Level 7: flies 60 feet; Level 9: Immune to weapon damage.
Binder Aspect: (Su) Areas of vegetation, within short range of you are difficult terrain for your enemies, and they must save (Reflex DC 10+1/2 Level+WIS) upon entering, and at the end of each of their turns, or be entangled. Level 5: Mud and sand are also effected. Level 7: Stone is also effected. Level 9: The Air around you is effected; a flying creature that fails its save is not entangled, but drops 60 feet; if it strikes the ground it then immediately saves against entanglement.
Stalker Aspect: You have Hide in Plain Sight, and enhancement an bonus to hide and move silently. You have scent, a natural bite (1d8 if medium) with an enhancement bonus, and pounce.
Feral Aspect: You have an enhancement bonus to strength and con, and two claws (1d6 if medium) with enhancement bonuses; your natural and weapon attacks count as silver. You may *Enlarge* yourself at will.
Watcher Aspect: Level 1: Darkvision, Low-light Vision, Spot/Listen Enhancement; Level 3, Scent, Detect Magic (Sp); Level 5, See Invisible; Level 7: Blindsense 60', Level 9: Arcane Sight, Ghost Touch attacks
Protector Aspect: You have a deflection bonus to AC, a resistance bonus to saves, Armored in Life, and energy resistance.
Travel Aspect: You have enhancement bonuses to DEX and speed, and the following movement abilities, by ranger level: 1, Spider climb; 3, Water Walk; 5, Jump; 7, Air Walk; 9, Freedom of Movement
Terror Aspect: You can use Slent Image at will. Level 3: three ranger levels, you can concentrate on it as a move action. Level 5: you can use Minor Image. Level 7: you can concentrate on it as a swift action. Level 9: you can cast it as a move action.
Vital Aspect: You have an enhancement bonus to Heal, Knowledge (Nature), and Survival, and fast healing.
ETA: The enhancement bonuses are the same as wearing a Book of Gears item.
Edit History:
Merged Stalker/Hunter; Buffed Feral. Tweaked Watcher
Added Woodlore; clarified spirit mechanics. Removed some redundant recharge times. Improved Travel Aspect. Removed level limit from Swarm Aspect; now probably overpowered at level 1, will fix later.
Spirit Ranger
Moderator: Moderators
Spirit Ranger
Last edited by Orion on Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:19 pm, edited 10 times in total.
I like the idea of spirit aspects, and especially the link to the Book of Gears, but may I ask why not spells (not as in the "spellcaster" role, just the good ranger spells of late 3.5)?
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
Specialize in terrain or roles? Scout/Tracker/Monster slayer/Defender of the woods?Surgo wrote:I actually discussed this with my group today. I thought it was an interesting idea and pretty good, but the question of what to even do for advancement past level 10 kept coming up.
Or...I've always sorta liked the weird array of abilities a Horizon walker could pick up, so maybe something with that as the core idea.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Neat class. Doesn't really fit my idea of a ranger (it seems more like a fantasy druid), but then again a D&D druid isn't anything like a historical one either.
You might want to add more spirits or change how often they're accumulated, though. Every ranger having every spirit at level 10 takes away from the whole 'selectable class feature'/'Entangle+Swarm+Illusion ranger vs. Claw+Claw+Bite ranger' thing.
I don't know if it's totally appropriate, but you could do something like restrict them to leather and hide armor proficiency and give them some abilities keyed on wearing those (loupe garou and all that).
You might want to add more spirits or change how often they're accumulated, though. Every ranger having every spirit at level 10 takes away from the whole 'selectable class feature'/'Entangle+Swarm+Illusion ranger vs. Claw+Claw+Bite ranger' thing.
I don't know if it's totally appropriate, but you could do something like restrict them to leather and hide armor proficiency and give them some abilities keyed on wearing those (loupe garou and all that).
No spellcasting to differentiate it from Druid, and make it easier for newbies to play.
The spirits were originally ordered class features, but when I couldn't quite get the order right I decided to throw it open. Obviously more spirits could be added, but I think the third spirit is incentive enough to go to level 10.
As for advancement, It was orignally conceived as a 20-level class, and could be extended. 20 spirits known might be too many, though five active is doable. Not all of them necessarily scale, so we might ned a second tier of ranger abilites.
Honestly though, I posted it at level 10 because I wasn't clear on what it woujld need to compete at 11+. While a supernatural warrior class ought to be scalable, in the case of rangers I'm actually not sure. THe concept of "guy who tramps around in the woods talking to animals" may expire at level 10.
In the meantime, Multi-ing Rogue or Barbarian (damage dice), Fighter (full BAB combat feats), or a supernatural class like Fire Mage or Conduit might be reasonable advancement paths.
The spirits were originally ordered class features, but when I couldn't quite get the order right I decided to throw it open. Obviously more spirits could be added, but I think the third spirit is incentive enough to go to level 10.
As for advancement, It was orignally conceived as a 20-level class, and could be extended. 20 spirits known might be too many, though five active is doable. Not all of them necessarily scale, so we might ned a second tier of ranger abilites.
Honestly though, I posted it at level 10 because I wasn't clear on what it woujld need to compete at 11+. While a supernatural warrior class ought to be scalable, in the case of rangers I'm actually not sure. THe concept of "guy who tramps around in the woods talking to animals" may expire at level 10.
In the meantime, Multi-ing Rogue or Barbarian (damage dice), Fighter (full BAB combat feats), or a supernatural class like Fire Mage or Conduit might be reasonable advancement paths.
If the class naturally putters out at level 10, and people want further advancement in this, I'd suggest pirating a line from d20 Modern and making PrCs/Advanced Classes for it. Focus on a specific area of the class and then make that focus work harder'n hell.Boolean wrote:No spellcasting to differentiate it from Druid, and make it easier for newbies to play.
The spirits were originally ordered class features, but when I couldn't quite get the order right I decided to throw it open. Obviously more spirits could be added, but I think the third spirit is incentive enough to go to level 10.
As for advancement, It was orignally conceived as a 20-level class, and could be extended. 20 spirits known might be too many, though five active is doable. Not all of them necessarily scale, so we might ned a second tier of ranger abilites.
Honestly though, I posted it at level 10 because I wasn't clear on what it woujld need to compete at 11+. While a supernatural warrior class ought to be scalable, in the case of rangers I'm actually not sure. THe concept of "guy who tramps around in the woods talking to animals" may expire at level 10.
This is what occurs to me:
-Speaker for the Spirits: You get more aspects and also commune with spirits so much that the conversation starts looking like, "Hey, spirits." "Hey, ranger." "How're you?" "About the same. And you?" "I could use some advice and a hand here." "We've got nothing better to do. Whatcha need?"
...and then people the ranger doesn't like start seeing phantasms and ghostly forest creatures and the ranger gets infused with the powers of the spirits and turns into a giant dire-werebear and Bad Things Go Down.
-One with the Forest's Soul: You turn into a plant. You get anatomical and attack options suspiciously similar to Pokemon moves like Vine Whip and Razor Leaf and Synthesis. Plants also do your bidding, whether it be grow rapidly, or uproot themselves and attack somebody.
-Territorial: You make the term home-turf advantage scream to be corrected to Home-turf certainty. You have a place you like a lot, and only an idiot attacks you there. You can also apply your skills at stealth, observation, and rigging traps quickly to outside of your place.
On spellcasting, what I was thinking was to have it cast like a bard, with spells either from the druid or ranger (as if 1 level higher) lists. Given that it'd be a spontaneous class with a small known list, I think it'd be actually easier to play. As for 20 levels, I'm actually thinking halving the spirit learning rate (and adding something else), and maybe make extra spirits. And as for differentiating from the druid, good point to some extent, but this wouldn't either kill people using just spells or as an animal, so I think it'd be pretty different anyway. And you really should improve herbalist ...
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
At Catharz --
It's worth noting that some of the abilities are more obviously "supernatural" or "druidic" than others.
If you want a lower-magic ranger, just take, say, Stalker, Protector, and Traveler before jumping out into Fighter or Rogue
@ Bigode -- I will consider it. I was actually planning on making several different ranger progressions, with the spellcasting ranger being next to go up, so I'm a bit resistant to throwing spells on this one too. However, If this can all happily coexist in one progression, that might be even better -- I may try my hand at a 20-level casting version of this class.
It's worth noting that some of the abilities are more obviously "supernatural" or "druidic" than others.
If you want a lower-magic ranger, just take, say, Stalker, Protector, and Traveler before jumping out into Fighter or Rogue
@ Bigode -- I will consider it. I was actually planning on making several different ranger progressions, with the spellcasting ranger being next to go up, so I'm a bit resistant to throwing spells on this one too. However, If this can all happily coexist in one progression, that might be even better -- I may try my hand at a 20-level casting version of this class.
Last edited by Orion on Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Same Game Challenge: (28 point buy)
Kilgore, Half-Orc Ranger 5
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 15 Cha 8
AC 19 (+7 Armor +2 DEX) Fort 5 Ref 8 Will 5
HP 36
Magic Longbow +9 1d8+6
Masterwork Ranseur +12 2d4+8
Skills: hide+10/15, move silently, spot, listen, survival,
Feats: Combat School (claw, bite, dagger, spear), Elusive Target
Aspects: Hunter, Feral, Stalker, Protector, Ally
Possessions: Magic Mithral Shirt, Magic Lingbow
Drizzle, Whiny Elf Ranger 10
Str 14 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16 (20) Cha 8
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Mage Slayer, Blind Fighting, Weapon Finesse
HP 63 Fort 9 Ref 15 Will 13 SR 15
Magic Longbow (Pointblank) +20/15 1d8+16
Skills: hide, move silently, spot, listen, survival, knowledge (nature), heal.
Possessions:
Magic Longbow
Magic Spiderweb Armor
Peiapt of Wisdom
When Traveling: Drizzle typically walks around with Stalker, Watcher, and Travel aspects up.
Thornstrider, Aasimar Ranger10/True Fiend 4/Fighter1
Str 14 Dex 17 (22) Con 14 Int 12 Wis 16 (21) Cha 10
AC 28 (36 when Protected) DR 15/admantine and 4/good or silver HP 103
Fort 15 Ref 22 Will 18 (+5 when protected)
Feats: Pointblank Shot, Sniper, Wings of Evil, Extra Arms, Two-Weapon Fighting, Mage Slayer
Spheres: Venom
Possessions: Periapt of Wisdom, Glove of Dexterity, Magic Adamantine, 2 Magic Longbows
Pointblank Longbows +29/29/24/24/24/24 1d8+22
Kilgore, Half-Orc Ranger 5
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 15 Cha 8
AC 19 (+7 Armor +2 DEX) Fort 5 Ref 8 Will 5
HP 36
Magic Longbow +9 1d8+6
Masterwork Ranseur +12 2d4+8
Skills: hide+10/15, move silently, spot, listen, survival,
Feats: Combat School (claw, bite, dagger, spear), Elusive Target
Aspects: Hunter, Feral, Stalker, Protector, Ally
Possessions: Magic Mithral Shirt, Magic Lingbow
Drizzle, Whiny Elf Ranger 10
Str 14 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16 (20) Cha 8
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Mage Slayer, Blind Fighting, Weapon Finesse
HP 63 Fort 9 Ref 15 Will 13 SR 15
Magic Longbow (Pointblank) +20/15 1d8+16
Skills: hide, move silently, spot, listen, survival, knowledge (nature), heal.
Possessions:
Magic Longbow
Magic Spiderweb Armor
Peiapt of Wisdom
When Traveling: Drizzle typically walks around with Stalker, Watcher, and Travel aspects up.
Thornstrider, Aasimar Ranger10/True Fiend 4/Fighter1
Str 14 Dex 17 (22) Con 14 Int 12 Wis 16 (21) Cha 10
AC 28 (36 when Protected) DR 15/admantine and 4/good or silver HP 103
Fort 15 Ref 22 Will 18 (+5 when protected)
Feats: Pointblank Shot, Sniper, Wings of Evil, Extra Arms, Two-Weapon Fighting, Mage Slayer
Spheres: Venom
Possessions: Periapt of Wisdom, Glove of Dexterity, Magic Adamantine, 2 Magic Longbows
Pointblank Longbows +29/29/24/24/24/24 1d8+22
Last edited by Orion on Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
A hallway filled with magical runes.
Drizzle spots the traps with Watcher Aspect, then busts out Protector and Travel. With awesome saves, evasion, and some immunities and restorative potions, Drizzle should come out of this okay. Probable Victory.
A Fire Giant.
Drizzle catches the giant by surprise, giving it 50 points of arrows to the face. He needs about 2 more rounds to kill it, surprisingly similar ot the number of rounds it needs to kill him. Airwalk, speed, and entangle should keep it out of melee. It take 3 hits with a rock to kill me, but it misses mroe than half the time. Certain Victory.
A Young Blue Dragon.
Its breath weapon does nothing agaisnt evasion and ER. I win the ranged contst. If it comes down to the ground, it has to contend with pets; plus, the ranger's claw/claw/bite routine is better anyway. Probable Victory
A Bebilith.
The Bebilith won't surprise Drizzle, but its DR prevents him from dealing effective damage to it Its Web probably gets him, and he can't effectively trip it. Unless he's carrying good-aligned arrows, it will kill him much faster than he can fight back. Certain Defeat.
A Vrock.
It takes me and my pet way too long to chop through its DR. I can try tipping it and using claws with big power attack, but its mirror image is still vexing. Probable Defeat.
A tag team of Mind Flayers.
If stunned, I lose; if not, arrows quickly take them out. I have about a 50-50 shot, better if I was smart enough to put Protector up befor etnering the dungeon. Probable Victory.
An Evil Necromancer.
I have reasonable saves, and can lock down his minions. Arcane Sight means I know where he is even if he's invisible; I can probably shoot him before he can do anything, but there are a lot of variables here. Even match.
6 Trolls.
With Traveler and Protector, they can't hit me. Throw up Vine to keep tem mosty locked down, and twang away. Certain Victory.
A horde of Shadows.
With Traveler and Protector, they need 20s. Of course, I take forever to kill them too. If they jump me with the the wrong spirits up, it's all over. Even Match.
Certain Win: 1
Probable Win: 3
Even Match: 2
Probable Loss: 1
Certain Loss: 1
Seems pretty close to the mark; maybe a litle on the strong side, since this elf was pretty unoptimized.
Drizzle spots the traps with Watcher Aspect, then busts out Protector and Travel. With awesome saves, evasion, and some immunities and restorative potions, Drizzle should come out of this okay. Probable Victory.
A Fire Giant.
Drizzle catches the giant by surprise, giving it 50 points of arrows to the face. He needs about 2 more rounds to kill it, surprisingly similar ot the number of rounds it needs to kill him. Airwalk, speed, and entangle should keep it out of melee. It take 3 hits with a rock to kill me, but it misses mroe than half the time. Certain Victory.
A Young Blue Dragon.
Its breath weapon does nothing agaisnt evasion and ER. I win the ranged contst. If it comes down to the ground, it has to contend with pets; plus, the ranger's claw/claw/bite routine is better anyway. Probable Victory
A Bebilith.
The Bebilith won't surprise Drizzle, but its DR prevents him from dealing effective damage to it Its Web probably gets him, and he can't effectively trip it. Unless he's carrying good-aligned arrows, it will kill him much faster than he can fight back. Certain Defeat.
A Vrock.
It takes me and my pet way too long to chop through its DR. I can try tipping it and using claws with big power attack, but its mirror image is still vexing. Probable Defeat.
A tag team of Mind Flayers.
If stunned, I lose; if not, arrows quickly take them out. I have about a 50-50 shot, better if I was smart enough to put Protector up befor etnering the dungeon. Probable Victory.
An Evil Necromancer.
I have reasonable saves, and can lock down his minions. Arcane Sight means I know where he is even if he's invisible; I can probably shoot him before he can do anything, but there are a lot of variables here. Even match.
6 Trolls.
With Traveler and Protector, they can't hit me. Throw up Vine to keep tem mosty locked down, and twang away. Certain Victory.
A horde of Shadows.
With Traveler and Protector, they need 20s. Of course, I take forever to kill them too. If they jump me with the the wrong spirits up, it's all over. Even Match.
Certain Win: 1
Probable Win: 3
Even Match: 2
Probable Loss: 1
Certain Loss: 1
Seems pretty close to the mark; maybe a litle on the strong side, since this elf was pretty unoptimized.
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SunTzuWarmaster
- Knight-Baron
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Let's look at AC
Protector aspect isn't as good as it was at first glance (+2 to AC, +3 to saves at level 9, eh), and then a +8 for not having shields/armor = +13
Then an enhancement bonus to Dex (character is a Dex-based fighter) +3
Base - +10
Dex - +2 (likely)
AC = 13+3+2+10=28
You have to figure that they taking the TWF feat and use the non-armor (because it is a self-nerf if they have nothing in the other hand), so there is another +4 in there, for a total of 32 (and the character can have no items that grant additional AC boosts, unless unnamed).
I thought that would be too good, but it is just a touch above expected (and required a feat).
My biggest concern now is that the character has no gear dependency. That's fine, but the problem is that there is no incentive to buy gear...
Enhancement bonus to the stats they care about
Armored in life prevents useful purchase of armor/shield
Make-your-own-potions
Free traveling (except Teleport, but they get Tree Stride)
So, at level 5, this character gets a magic sword, another at 6, and a bow at 7. Then, um, misc. things, but not things that require UMD. This fits the Drittz flavor, but it is flat out better in this area versus the Barbarian/Knight/Samurai.
Protector aspect isn't as good as it was at first glance (+2 to AC, +3 to saves at level 9, eh), and then a +8 for not having shields/armor = +13
Then an enhancement bonus to Dex (character is a Dex-based fighter) +3
Base - +10
Dex - +2 (likely)
AC = 13+3+2+10=28
You have to figure that they taking the TWF feat and use the non-armor (because it is a self-nerf if they have nothing in the other hand), so there is another +4 in there, for a total of 32 (and the character can have no items that grant additional AC boosts, unless unnamed).
I thought that would be too good, but it is just a touch above expected (and required a feat).
My biggest concern now is that the character has no gear dependency. That's fine, but the problem is that there is no incentive to buy gear...
Enhancement bonus to the stats they care about
Armored in life prevents useful purchase of armor/shield
Make-your-own-potions
Free traveling (except Teleport, but they get Tree Stride)
So, at level 5, this character gets a magic sword, another at 6, and a bow at 7. Then, um, misc. things, but not things that require UMD. This fits the Drittz flavor, but it is flat out better in this area versus the Barbarian/Knight/Samurai.
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SunTzuWarmaster
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 948
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Magic armor isn't useful when you have Armored In Life
INT items don't grant retroactive skills
Natural Armor - didn't think of that
I look at it like this then
Magic Sword
Wis item
Natural Armor
Magic Bow
Another Magic Sword
The problem is that they have these at a fairly early level (6? 8?), and then what do they look for in their remaining 10 levels? It's not a bad thing, I just think that they need a kick in the pants somewhere to compensate.
BTW, I like that they can totally be a panther (natural claws, bite, STR/CON boost, Scent)
I think it would be better balanced with a d6 hit die, giving the character a bit of fear of death and a reason to keep his AC fairly high. Or maybe I just don't like that they have a d8 and Evasion when compared against the rogue.
INT items don't grant retroactive skills
Natural Armor - didn't think of that
I look at it like this then
Magic Sword
Wis item
Natural Armor
Magic Bow
Another Magic Sword
The problem is that they have these at a fairly early level (6? 8?), and then what do they look for in their remaining 10 levels? It's not a bad thing, I just think that they need a kick in the pants somewhere to compensate.
BTW, I like that they can totally be a panther
(natural claws, bite, STR/CON boost, Scent)I think it would be better balanced with a d6 hit die, giving the character a bit of fear of death and a reason to keep his AC fairly high. Or maybe I just don't like that they have a d8 and Evasion when compared against the rogue.
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CatharzGodfoot
- King
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: North Carolina
They'll still wear magic armor, for the innate abilities rather than AC. Camo with fortification and whatnot.
For a melee oriented ranger, it might be worth skipping the feral aspect and grabbing Con and Str boosting items separately. Nothing wrong with THFing with a bite on the side. Travel + Protector + Hunter are the probable spirits.
OTOH, a ranger armed with Travel, Vines, and Protector is going to be a wicked ranged combatant. Throw in PBS, Sniper, and a good bow.
For a melee oriented ranger, it might be worth skipping the feral aspect and grabbing Con and Str boosting items separately. Nothing wrong with THFing with a bite on the side. Travel + Protector + Hunter are the probable spirits.
OTOH, a ranger armed with Travel, Vines, and Protector is going to be a wicked ranged combatant. Throw in PBS, Sniper, and a good bow.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
Is Protector Spirit really *that* amazing? It's been assumed as a given by almost everyone here, which makes me wonder if it's too good to be a selectable option. Do I need to build more defense into the class progression itself?
I had really tried ot push the effectiveness of Protector because "defense abilities are shit," although I suppose that's less true in solo adventuring.
Do you think a partied Ranger would still auto-pick Protector?
Apart form that, which spirits are no-brainers / never worth it?
I had really tried ot push the effectiveness of Protector because "defense abilities are shit," although I suppose that's less true in solo adventuring.
Do you think a partied Ranger would still auto-pick Protector?
Apart form that, which spirits are no-brainers / never worth it?
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CatharzGodfoot
- King
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
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None of the spirits are no-brainers. Most of them are situational, and regularly swapping them around is always going to be better than keeping a static few.Boolean wrote:Is Protector Spirit really *that* amazing? It's been assumed as a given by almost everyone here, which makes me wonder if it's too good to be a selectable option. Do I need to build more defense into the class progression itself?
I had really tried ot push the effectiveness of Protector because "defense abilities are shit," although I suppose that's less true in solo adventuring.
Do you think a partied Ranger would still auto-pick Protector?
Apart form that, which spirits are no-brainers / never worth it?
- When you're on a grassy hillside or a beach, Vines are bad ass. In a castle or a cave you probably won't use it at all.
- Terror is always going to be nice before combat. Once you're in it depends on your build.
- Ally and swarm have obvious uses, but not all characters will want to be using them in combat.
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SunTzuWarmaster
- Knight-Baron
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Protector is good for what it is good for. If you are in combat, however, it is flat out better than any other single option for keeping you alive.
Protector Aspect: You have a deflection bonus to AC, a resistance bonus to saves, Armored in Life, and energy resistance.
A level 1:
+4 AC
Resist <energy> 1
Bad, barely better than a chain shirt.
A level 3:
+6 AC (with +1 Deflection)
+1 ALL Saves
Resist <energy> 3
This pushes your AC towards the end RNG if you have good Dex (you do). You compare well against anyone that isn't using a shield (and against some of those). A fighter in full plate with a heavy shield has an AC of +11 (max). You are easily around AC 20 before most people can afford Full Plate and can attack with two weapons. At the very least, this is your default state (for times you aren't hunting or using an animal companion).
Level 6: - you now get 2
+9 AC (with +2 deflection)
+2 ALL Saves
Resist <energy> 6
You AC is now somewhere around ~25, before Natural Armor comes into play. You are a bit better than the melee component. You get two of these, so one of them is fairly consistently the Protector. What other 2 combine well? Stalker+Travel? Situational. Ally+<something else> ? Seriously, this is what makes you not die. If you are going to choose an ability that isn't +9 AC and the ability to be on fire and resist wizard attacks, you had better have a DAMNED good reason for doing so. Also, you probably take Travel for the bonus movement speed and Dex increase as your standard 'walking around' choices.
Level 10: - you now get 3
+12 AC (with +3 deflection)
+3 to ALL Saves
Resist <energy> 10
You AC is keeping par with someone that fights with a weapon and a shield, but you had better have a REALLY REALLY good reason for not choosing this as one of your three abilities.
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That being said, you compared about evenly when compared against a monk. It is a touch better because of the deflection and energy resistance, which is fine because it takes a standard action to switch them out. At level 10, the standard choices are Travel, Protector, and Watcher, where Travel is the first thing to be switched for Ally when battle appears likely, and where Watcher is first to be switched for Hunter/Vines/Terror/Feral as the situation calls for. The issue is that you don't give up Protector, because that is how you stay alive.
Some of the other options need to be better to move their way out of situational choices. Stalker is good for stalking, that's fine, but Hunter needs to do something else interesting (Pounce is only good for 1 round and the natural bite sucks, as does scent).
For the 1v1, you take Feral, Hunter, and Protector before you pounce on someone with your 4 TWF attacks and your bite attack boosted w/strength enhancements, but for the "I'm walking in the woods before I get ambushed", you take Travel (Dex+movement), Protector (AC!), and Watcher (uncanny dodge).
Anywho, any Ranger has the Protector on as the default and the others on as needed. If you removed the Protector aspect (or the Armored in Life aspect from it), then the standard would probably be the Ally.
Protector Aspect: You have a deflection bonus to AC, a resistance bonus to saves, Armored in Life, and energy resistance.
A level 1:
+4 AC
Resist <energy> 1
Bad, barely better than a chain shirt.
A level 3:
+6 AC (with +1 Deflection)
+1 ALL Saves
Resist <energy> 3
This pushes your AC towards the end RNG if you have good Dex (you do). You compare well against anyone that isn't using a shield (and against some of those). A fighter in full plate with a heavy shield has an AC of +11 (max). You are easily around AC 20 before most people can afford Full Plate and can attack with two weapons. At the very least, this is your default state (for times you aren't hunting or using an animal companion).
Level 6: - you now get 2
+9 AC (with +2 deflection)
+2 ALL Saves
Resist <energy> 6
You AC is now somewhere around ~25, before Natural Armor comes into play. You are a bit better than the melee component. You get two of these, so one of them is fairly consistently the Protector. What other 2 combine well? Stalker+Travel? Situational. Ally+<something else> ? Seriously, this is what makes you not die. If you are going to choose an ability that isn't +9 AC and the ability to be on fire and resist wizard attacks, you had better have a DAMNED good reason for doing so. Also, you probably take Travel for the bonus movement speed and Dex increase as your standard 'walking around' choices.
Level 10: - you now get 3
+12 AC (with +3 deflection)
+3 to ALL Saves
Resist <energy> 10
You AC is keeping par with someone that fights with a weapon and a shield, but you had better have a REALLY REALLY good reason for not choosing this as one of your three abilities.
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That being said, you compared about evenly when compared against a monk. It is a touch better because of the deflection and energy resistance, which is fine because it takes a standard action to switch them out. At level 10, the standard choices are Travel, Protector, and Watcher, where Travel is the first thing to be switched for Ally when battle appears likely, and where Watcher is first to be switched for Hunter/Vines/Terror/Feral as the situation calls for. The issue is that you don't give up Protector, because that is how you stay alive.
Some of the other options need to be better to move their way out of situational choices. Stalker is good for stalking, that's fine, but Hunter needs to do something else interesting (Pounce is only good for 1 round and the natural bite sucks, as does scent).
For the 1v1, you take Feral, Hunter, and Protector before you pounce on someone with your 4 TWF attacks and your bite attack boosted w/strength enhancements, but for the "I'm walking in the woods before I get ambushed", you take Travel (Dex+movement), Protector (AC!), and Watcher (uncanny dodge).
Anywho, any Ranger has the Protector on as the default and the others on as needed. If you removed the Protector aspect (or the Armored in Life aspect from it), then the standard would probably be the Ally.
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CatharzGodfoot
- King
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Warmaster, at third level there is a clear winning spirit, but it isn't protector. For offense, defense, and utility it's really hard to beat a hippogryph companion.
If you really want to have a crazy good defense as a ranger, skip Protector entirely and grab a level of monk. AC and saves +4 dodge bonus for a swift action, plus armored in life. Consider the monk 1/spirit ranger 2 riding on a hippogryph: AC will be 10 + 4 (Armor) + 4 (dodge) + max(Dex, Wis) = 20 to 22, saves +8 (Reflex, Will) or +5 plus Mod. Buy a cheap Cloak of Resistance and some magic armor if that isn't enough.
If you assume AiL stacks between Protector and Monk, at higher levels you still might have reason to use it though...
Also, most of the above posts seem to be forgetting that Armored in Life stacks the enhancement bonus of the armor you're wearing.
If you really want to have a crazy good defense as a ranger, skip Protector entirely and grab a level of monk. AC and saves +4 dodge bonus for a swift action, plus armored in life. Consider the monk 1/spirit ranger 2 riding on a hippogryph: AC will be 10 + 4 (Armor) + 4 (dodge) + max(Dex, Wis) = 20 to 22, saves +8 (Reflex, Will) or +5 plus Mod. Buy a cheap Cloak of Resistance and some magic armor if that isn't enough.
If you assume AiL stacks between Protector and Monk, at higher levels you still might have reason to use it though...
Also, most of the above posts seem to be forgetting that Armored in Life stacks the enhancement bonus of the armor you're wearing.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
Remember that at level 3, You're likely to be running around with at least masterwork studded leather, so you're only losing 3 AC when you switch our of protector.
Even at level 10, the Armor bonus you get is +9, which is only 4 points better than light mithril; you could always buy a deflection item to make up the rest of the difference. Still, if protector is ana spect that you want both to have alwyas on for walking around, *and* always on for fighting, it's probably too good.
Even at level 10, the Armor bonus you get is +9, which is only 4 points better than light mithril; you could always buy a deflection item to make up the rest of the difference. Still, if protector is ana spect that you want both to have alwyas on for walking around, *and* always on for fighting, it's probably too good.
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SunTzuWarmaster
- Knight-Baron
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Sorry, forgot about the hippogriff caveat: any class that has access to a hippogriff at low levels must take it, and take it as many times as possible. I had forgotten about the enhancement from armor stacking with Armored in Life, so I guess that there is some gear dependency in there. I do not assume AiL stacks, that is just way too good (and it comes from the same fluff source, so it's lame metagaming).
Don't get me wrong, I like the ability, I just think that it happens to be a clear winner for the one to have.
Also, yes, a Monk-Ranger is very good under these circumstances, perhaps you could get the ranger to finish his 11-20 career as a monk? Level 10 ability that states you can take Grand Master abilities or something?
Don't get me wrong, I like the ability, I just think that it happens to be a clear winner for the one to have.
Also, yes, a Monk-Ranger is very good under these circumstances, perhaps you could get the ranger to finish his 11-20 career as a monk? Level 10 ability that states you can take Grand Master abilities or something?
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CatharzGodfoot
- King
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SunTzuWarmaster
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 948
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
This is under the assumption that AiL is based on character level. This means that if you are a Monk1/Ranger1, you have AiL from two different sources. I assume that they do not stack (granting +8 AC), but instead apply as if normal for a character of level 2 (+4). The "lame metagaming" remark would be for stacking Monk 10/Ranger 10 to yield AiL 20+20 for +28 AiL AC at level 20.
No, I am totally cool with something like "if you gain AiL from more than 1 source, they effective AiL character level is the character levels added together", I just didn't want people doing lame things like Ranger1/Monk X, where the level in Ranger constantly grants Save bonuses, +4 AC, and <character level> in resistance.
No, I am totally cool with something like "if you gain AiL from more than 1 source, they effective AiL character level is the character levels added together", I just didn't want people doing lame things like Ranger1/Monk X, where the level in Ranger constantly grants Save bonuses, +4 AC, and <character level> in resistance.
Re: A Tome ranger
Do we think Detect thoughts is approrpriate for Watcher? I'm contemplating replacing it.
How do we feel about opening up Ally spirits to non-animals form the Sumon nature's Ally list?
Do the built-in features need any adjustment?
Why is Hunter lame, and how can it be fixed?
How do we feel about opening up Ally spirits to non-animals form the Sumon nature's Ally list?
Do the built-in features need any adjustment?
Why is Hunter lame, and how can it be fixed?
Last edited by Orion on Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.