New Stances for the Dungeonomicon Monk! Create your own!

[Dean]

Hello everybody! My favorite class of all time is the Monk in the "Dungeonomicon". Now in the wuxai-esque campaign I just got into basically everyone is a Monk. So while Frank and K's creation is truly incredible it was -designed- with the idea that people using it would create their own cool Monk stances and powers. So what I want to do with this thread is show off a few of my own Fighting Style creations and then let everyone create ones of their own to add to an overall list. So if anyone doesn't know what the Dungeonoicon Monk worked like it's in the spoiler-

The Dungeonomicon Monk

Monk
"I am a Grand Master of Flowers. You are not."

Fantasy literature's view of the "martial artist" has about as much to do with a real martial artist as its view of salamanders has to do with real salamanders. But let's face the facts: Monks are totally sweet. They flip out and kill people with their hands. A Monk does not practice any "real" martial art, we call those people "Fighters" – a Monk practices an entirely magical martial art that only works in areas where badgers can talk and winged horses can fly.

Every Monk follows a different martial path that involves jumping super high and having glowing things coming off of their hands when they perform their super moves. Some monks use weapons, but most just use their hands and feet to devastating effect. Some Monks shout the names of their techniques in battle to demoralize their opponents, others stay aloof and silent during even the toughest of challenges.

Alignment: Monks may be of any alignment. Really. If a bar brawl breaks out, some Monks will try to break it up, other Monks will join in. Whatever.

Races: Because the martial paths of a Monk embrace all manners of comportment, from Stoic Lawfulness to Boisterous Chaos, almost every sapient race has those who take up the monk's path. With its lack of emphasis on ranged weaponry, few of the slower races turn towards these magical combat styles, and halflings and dwarves rarely become monks. The discipline emphasizes physical strength as much as it emphasizes perceptiveness and inner strength, so orcs are as likely to become monks as Kuo-Toa are.

Starting Gold: 2d4x10 gp (50 gold)

Starting Age: As Monk.

Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: The Monk's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus
BAB: Good (1/1), Saves: Fort: Good; Reflex: Good; Will: Good

Level, Benefit
1 Armored in Life, Fatal Strike, Willow Step, Fighting Style
2 Rain of Flowers, Abundant Leap
3 Fighting Style
4 Diamond Soul
5 Fighting Style
6 Walk of a Thousand Steps
7 Fighting Style
8 Immaculate Diamond Soul
9 Master Fighting Style
10 Leap of the Clouds
11 Master Fighting Style
12 Master of the Four Winds
13 Master Fighting Style
14 Master of the Four Seasons
15 Grand Master Fighting Style
16 Master of Diamond Soul
17 Grand Master Fighting Style
18 Perfect Mastery
19 Grand Master Fighting Style
20 Grand Master of Flowers

All of the following are Class Features of the Monk class:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with all simple weapons, as well any weapon defined as a special monk weapon, such as the sai, the nunchuka, the kama, the shuriken, and the triple staff. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields of any kind.

Armored in Life (Su): A Monk has a special Armor bonus whenever they are not using armor or shields that he is not proficient in. This Armor Bonus applies against Touch Attacks and Incorporeal Touch Attacks, and has a value of +4. Every even numbered class level, the Armored in Life bonus increases by 1. If the Monk wears armor which he is proficient in (for example: normal clothing) that has an enhancement bonus, that enhancement bonus applies to his Armored in Life Armor Bonus.

Wilow Step (Su): A true monk does not seek to outrun the fist, but to anticipate it. If a Monk would be allowed to add his Dexterity modifier to a Reflex Save or Armor Class, he may add his Wisdom bonus (if positive) instead.

Fatal Strike (Su): A Monk has a natural weapon Slam in addition to whatever else he is capable of doing. As a natural slam attack, if he uses no other natural or manufactured weapons he adds his Strength and a half to damage and may make iterative attacks if he has sufficient BAB. If the slam is used with other weaponry, it becomes a secondary natural attack, suffers a -5 penalty to-hit, and adds only half his Strength modifier to damage. A monk's slam attack does a base of 1d8 damage for a medium sized monk and does more or less damage as appropriate if the Monk is larger or smaller than medium size.

Fighting Style (Su): At levels 1, 3, 5, and 7, the Monk learns a Fighting Style. Each Fighting style requires a Swift Action to activate, lasts one round, and is usable at will. Each Fighting Style must have a name (see Naming Your Fighting Style below), and provides two bonuses from the Fighting Style Abilities:

• Fighting Style Abilities
• While Active, your Fighting Style provides a +4 Dodge Bonus to AC.
• While Active, your Fighting Style provides a +4 Dodge Bonus to Saving Throws.
• While Active, your Fighting Style forces any opponent struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or become stunned for one round.
• While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to make an attack of opportunity against any opponent who attacks you. This attack of opportunity must be a trip or disarm attempt.
• While Active, your Fighting Style provides you with concealment.
• While Active, your Fighting Style provides a +30' Insight Bonus to your movement rate.
• While Active, your Fighting Style allows your slam attacks to ignore hardness and DR.
• While Active, your Fighting Style provides any bonuses it gives to your slam attack to any attack you make with any weapon.
• While Active, your Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict piercing damage and to inflict 2 points of Constitution damage.
• While Active, your Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict slashing damage and to reduce your opponent's movement rate by 10' every time they suffer damage from it. This movement rate reduction can be healed like ability damage (treating 5' of movement as 1 point of ability damage).
• While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to move through occupied spaces as if they were unoccupied and you provoke no attacks of opportunity for your movement.

Rain of Flowers (Su): Any time a 2nd level Monk inflicts lethal damage, he may elect to inflict non-lethal damage instead. Any time a Monk inflicts non-lethal damage, he may elect to inflict lethal damage instead.

Abundant Leap (Su): At 2nd level, a Monk's ability to jump is unbounded by his height. In addition, the DC for any jump check is divided by two.

Diamond Soul (Su): At 4th level, the Monk gains Spell Resistance equal to 5 + his character level. At 8th level, his soul becomes immaculate and his Spell Resistance improves to 10 + character level, and at 16th level he masters his diamond soul and his spell resistance improves to 15 + character level.

Walk of a Thousand Steps: Once per day, a Monk of sixth level or higher may activate a Fighting Style and extend its duration to 1 round/level rather than 1 round. Activating this Fighting Style is still a Swift Action. Other Fighting Styles may be activated during this period, though their duration is normally going to be only 1 round.

Master Fighting Style (Su): At levels 9, 11, and 13, the Monk learns a Master Fighting Style. Each Master Fighting style requires a Swift Action to activate, lasts one round, and is usable at will. Each Master Fighting Style must have a name (see Naming Your Fighting Style below), and provides two bonuses from the Master Fighting Style Abilities. When a Monk gains a new Master Fighting Style, he may replace one of his Fighting Styles with a different Fighting Style.

• Master Fighting Style Abilities:
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style allows you to teleport yourself and everything you are physically carrying 60 feet in any direction as a free action usable once per round.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style provides total concealment.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style transforms your slam attacks into Force effects that inflict Force damage.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style affects any creature struck with your slam attack with a banishment effect that transports it back to its home plane unless it succeeds at a Will save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier). Outsiders suffer a -4 penalty to their saving throw. A creature so banished, may not return to the plane it was banished from for a year.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style forces any creature struck by your slam attack to make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or be helpless for one round.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style provides you the effect of an air walk spell, and gives you a +20' Competence bonus to your speed.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style affects any opponent you successfully trip or bulrush with the violent thrust version of telekinesis, with a caster level equal to your character level. There is no saving throw against this effect.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style allows you to shoot fire out of your hands or mouth as a standard action. The fire can be shot out to medium range, requires a ranged touch attack, and inflicts 1d6 of fire damage per character level if it hits.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict vile damage.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style forces every creature within 10 feet of you to make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or become panicked for one minute.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style affects any target you strike with your slam attack with a targeted version greater dispelling with a caster level equal to your character level.
• While Active, your Master Fighting Style causes 5d6 of Sonic damage to everything within 30 feet of you when you inflict damage with your slam attack against any target. You are immune to Sonic damage while your Master Fighting Style is active.
• Instead of gaining a Master Fighting Style Ability, you may choose two regular Fighting Style Abilties.

Leap of the Clouds (Su): At 10th level, the DC for any jump check is divided by 5.

Master of the Four Winds (Su): The Monk's breath of life is carried on the winds of fate. At 12th level, if the monk is restored to life, he doesn't lose a level for doing so.

Master of the Four Seasons: Time passes relentlessly in the world, but for a monk of 14th level, the change of seasons is as no change at all. He no longer appears to age, never accumulates any additional penalties for growing older and will never die of old age.

Grand Master Fighting Style (Su): At levels 15, 17, and 19, the Monk learns a Grand Master Fighting Style. Each Grand Master Fighting style requires a Swift Action to activate, lasts one round, and is usable at will. Each Grand Master Fighting Style must have a name (see Naming Your Fighting Style below), and provides two bonuses from the Grand Master Fighting Style Abilities. When a Monk gains a new Grand Master Fighting Style, he may replace one of his Fighting Styles or Master Fighting Style with a different Style of the same type.

• Grand Master Fighting Style Abilities:
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style makes you and everything you are carrying incorporeal, your slam attacks are incorporeal touch attacks.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style slows down time to the point where you can act twice each round, you do not gain an extra Swift Action during your extra actions.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style allows you to punch a hole through space and time, allowing you to open a travel version of gate with a slam attack.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style prevents all [Teleport] effects from entering or exiting within 1 mile of your location.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style causes your slam attacks to reduce the spell resistance of enemies by an equal amount to the damage the slam attack inflicts.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style forces every creature struck with your slam attack to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or die.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style affects any target you strike with your slam attack with a disintegrate effect, with a caster level equal to your character level.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style causes you to regenerate. You recover a number of points of nonlethal damage each round equal to your character level. Unarmed or Slam attacks inflict regular damage.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style forces any opponent you strike with your slam attack to make a Willpower save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or become feeble minded.
• While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style affects every target you strike with a slam attack with the violent thrust version of telekinesis, with a caster level equal to your character level. There is no saving throw against this effect.
• Instead of gaining a Grand Master Fighting Style Ability, you may choose two Master Fighting Style Abilties.

Perfect Mastery: Once per day, a Monk of 18th level or higher may activate a Fighting Style, Master Fighting Style, or Grand Master Fighting Style and extend its duration to 1 round/level rather than 1 round. Activating this style is still a Swift Action. Other styles may be activated during this period, though their duration is normally going to be only 1 round

Grand Master of Flowers: At 20th level, the Monk becomes an Outsider, and immortal of legend. He gains the augmented subtype of his previous type, and has Damage Reduction of 20/Epic.

Naming your Fighting Style: Roll a d10, or choose an adjective, an animal, and a noun:
Adjective Chart:

1. Running
2. Hungry
3. Angry
4. Naked
5. Drunken
6. Fortunate
7. Lazy
8. Swift
9. Powerful
10. Enlightened

Animal Chart:

1. Ox
2. Tiger
3. Dragon
4. Crane
5. Monkey
6. Turtle
7. Manticore
8. Serpent
9. Hummingbird
10. Demon

Noun Chart:

1. Fist
2. Stance
3. Spinning Kick
4. Attack
5. Technique
6. Style
7. Dance
8. Movement
9. Touch
10. Fu

• Note from the authors: Feel free to add any adjectives, animals, or nouns that you want. There's no reason that your character's fighting style has to be called "Naked Tiger Stance" rather than "Astonished Centaur Defense".

So now lets get to making those styles! I've already had a lot of time to make some of my own but what I really want is all of yours. So post a style idea in the thread and it will go into the "In the works" list, and if a few weeks go by without any criticisms, and people seem to like it it will get put in the confirmed list. I'm starting with a number of ones I've used in my home game already on the confirmed list but those are the ones that have seen a lot of use and a lot of testing so I can comfortably say they're functional. So without further ado...

The Finished Styles List

FIGHTING STYLES
* While Active, your Fighting Style grants a +4 enhancement bonus to any one physical attribute, chosen when you gain the stance, of your choice. The attribute affected cannot be changed once chosen.
* While Active, your Fighting Style grants you Damage Reduction 1/-. This damage reduction increases by 1 for every 2 levels of Monk you have.
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to act as if you had the "Whirlwind Attack" feat
* While Active, your Fighting Style grants you the ability to take any movement you make across liquids (such as water), or up vertical surfaces (such as walls or cliffsides) as long as you end on a solid horizontal surface. If you end your turn on a liquid you sink and if you end on a vertical surface you fall. Finally any falling damage you take while in this stance is halved.
* While Active, your Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict bludgeoning damage and to inflict 2 points of Dexterity damage.
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to count as one size larger for the purposes of reach, trips, grapple attempts, disarms, and bull rush attempts.
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows your slam attack to count as a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1, this increases to +2 at 5th level, +3 at 10th, +4 at 15, and +5 at 20th
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to toss powerful energies at your opponents. You may count this energy as fire, cold, acid, or electric damage but you must choose the type at the time you first gain the style. As a standard action this energy may be projected out to close range (using your monk level as your caster level), requires a ranged attack, and deals 1d8 damage per 2 caster levels
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to deal an additional 1+1/2 Monk levels on a successful slam attack
* While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone you strike with your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or count as Blind for one round
*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a grapple check (DC 10 + your grapple modifier) or be moved 5 feet + an additional 5 feet for every 4 levels of Monk you have in any direction you choose
*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a grapple check (DC 10 + your grapple modifier) or fall prone
*While Active, your Fighting Style grants you an additional slam attack at your highest base attack bonus
*While Active, your Fighting Style grants you the Pounce ability

MASTER FIGHTING STYLES
* While Active, your Master Fighting Style grants you a +4 bonus to any attribute.
* While Active, your Master Fighting Style allows you to act as if affected by a Haste spell
* While Active, your Master Fighting Style forces any creature struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or be effected by a Contagion spell.
* While Active, your Master Fighting Style allows you to act as if affected by the Invisibility spell.
* While Active your Master Fighting Style grants you 1d6 sneak attack + an additional 1d6 sneak attack for every 4 levels of Monk you have

GRAND MASTER FIGHTING STYLES
None Yet

Here's the list of styles that are still "In the works". Comments or criticization very very welcome on any.

The "Unfinished" Syles List

FIGHTING STYLES
* While Active, your Fighting Style grants you the Scent ability and Blindsense out to 30 feet

MASTER FIGHTING STYLES
* While Active, your Master Fighting Style gives you a fly speed of 30 feet with perfect maneuverability
* While Active your Master Fighting Style allows you to re-roll any roll you make as a free action usable once per round
* While Active your Master Fighting Style allows you to send shock waves through the earth and use "Wall of Stone" as the spell, with a caster level equal to your Monk level. Any walls created have a duration of Concentration+1 rounds. (See Bottom)
*Your Master Fighting Style allows you to project the damage and effects of your slam attack in 60' line as a standard action.

GRAND MASTER FIGHTING STYLES
* While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style gives you superhuman awareness of your surroundings, allowing you to act as if under the effect of a Foresight spell
* While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style allows you to draw energy from the earth and turn your flesh into living iron. As long as your style is active you act as if under the effect of the Iron Body spell
* While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style allows you to launch destructive elemental energies at your opponents. You may count this energy as fire, cold, acid, or electric damage but you must choose the type at the time you first gain the style. The energy may be projected out to medium range (using your monk level as your caster level), and forces everyone in a 30 foot radius to make a Ref save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or become prone and take 1d6 per level damage. A creature who successful saves halves the damage and ignores the prone condition.
* While Active your Grand Master Fighting Style allows you to use a standard action to make a single melee attack. If this attack succeeds the creature struck must make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or be affected as if by the Imprisonment spell, and like the spell the creature does recieve the -4 to it's save if it's name and some facts about it's life are known by you.

*This style idea fascinates me, how does everyone feel about it. I'd like to see it moved to the confirmed list.

Now get making some of your own! Or criticize mine, whatever floats your boat

NOTE: In addition to making new styles a few of us have begun making Monk specific tactical feats, which we call "School Feats" that gives a character playing a Monk the ability to show and define the kind of Monk he wants to play. Here they are, with more to come.

School Feats

Cobra School (Tactical)
Prerequisite: Armored in Life class feature, Wis 13, BAB+6
Spit Poison: You may take a standard action to make a ranged touch attack as if with an improvised weapon. If this attack hits your opponent must make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Constitution Modifier) or be Blind for 1d4 rounds.
Fang Strike Technique: You gain a new Fighting Style that grants you the ability to deal piercing damage and force anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or suffer 4 points of Constitution Damage.
Shed Skin: Once per day if you become stunned, petrified or paralyzed you may remove the condition at the end of your turn.

Way of the Flaming Fist (Tactical)
Prerequisite: Armored in Life class feature, BAB+6
Fists Afire: You may opt to deal any of your slam attack damage as fire damage.
Fuel the Fire: You may take 1d6 damage a turn to deal an additional 2d6 fire damage to any target you strike with a slam attack that turn.
Inferno: You gain a Fighting Style that grants you the ability to light your body aflame, concealing you within the smoke and damaging those who come too close. While in this Stance you gain concealment and any creature that strikes you or shares your space take 1d6 fire damage for every 2 character levels you have, with a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2 level+Wisdom Modifier) for half damage.

Cheetah School Monk (Tactical)
Prerequisite: Armored in Life class feature, Run
Claws: You may opt to count your slam attacks as claw attacks which can deal slashing or piercing damage.
Skulk: Any Hide or Move Silently checks you make while in a Fighting Style, Master Fighting Style, or Grand Master Fighting Style that increases your movement gains a +2 bonus
Velocitous Sprint Technique: You gain a Fighting Style that grants a +60 insight bonus to movement. In addition when making a charge in this stance you may move up to 4 times your speed before the attack, as opposed to 2 times your normal speed.

[Surgo]

A couple comments on what you have posted so far...

* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to act as if you had the "Up The Walls" psionic feat. You may use the ability without being psionically focused.

Not really good. While it's okay at very low levels, it's not anywhere else. Note that all of the Monk's fighting styles in the Dungeonomicon can actually be used at every level -- you generally start to get better options, but stunning someone is still stunning someone and +4 to saves is still +4 to saves at levels 1 and 20; these all can theoretically see use throughout a Monk's entire career. Up the Walls, on the other hand, stops seeing use when people start flying (if not before). I'd rather just give it to them as a class feature along with jumping if you're into that sort of thing.

In general, I don't like fighting styles replicating feats at all. If you want the feat, just take the feat. Whirlwind Attack in the Tomes doesn't even have any prerequisites (none of the feats do).

* While Active, your Fighting Style grants you Damage Reduction equal to 1+1/2 your Monk levels.

What kind of Damage Reduction?

I've been trying for a little while to figure out a way to make a Grand Master Fighting Style that allowed for some sort of "telekenetic fist" master. So the guy is over -there- and you're over -here- but when he punches at you you feel it. I just haven't figured out how to do it. Maybe something like "you may make melee attacks at targets up to 60 feet away" or something like that. I don't know. Ideas?

This shouldn't be a Grand Master fighting style...you already get 60' teleport as a free action once a round as a Master fighting style.

[Maxus]

The Phantom Punch is easy enough. Make it a normal Fighting Style Ability and say it's a single ranged attack of up to 60 feet that deals damage equal to your slam attack.

It'd be better to word it as specifically NOT being your slam attack.

Because then you could do the Speed-reducing fighting style and just cripple someone into immobility from afar, then stay at ranged and just pound them to death, again from afar.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I like being critical so here goes..

* While Active, your Fighting Style grants a +4 bonus to any one physical attribute, chosen when you gain the stance, of your choice. The attribute affected cannot be changed once chosen.
* While Active, your Master Fighting Style grants you a +4 bonus to any attribute.

They should probably both grant the bonus to any attribute, with the second one being chosen when the ability is used.

* While Active, your Master Fighting Style allows you to act as if affected by the Invisibility spell.
* While Active, your Master Fighting Style gives you a fly speed of 30 feet with perfect maneuverability

Are pretty much the same as

[*]While Active, your Master Fighting Style provides total concealment.
[*]While Active, your Master Fighting Style provides you the effect of an air walk spell, and gives you a +20' Competence bonus to your speed.

NOTE: I've been trying for a little while to figure out a way to make a Grand Master Fighting Style that allowed for some sort of "telekenetic fist" master. So the guy is over -there- and you're over -here- but when he punches at you you feel it. I just haven't figured out how to do it. Maybe something like "you may make melee attacks at targets up to 60 feet away" or something like that. I don't know. Ideas?

Maybe "While active your Master Fighting Style allows you to treat your slam attack as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 40'."?


Here are some other ones:

• While your Master Fighting Style is active you can send shock waves through the earth with a slam attack to form a wall of stone (4 5' squares max?).

• While your Grand Master Fighting Style is active any target you hit is surrounded by a 10' region of reversed gravity. If the target moves the region travels with them. This effects remains until you switch to a different stance.

[Calibron]

That's called synergy, like punching open a Gate to an extremely nasty part of the abyss and Violent Thrusting them through.

[CatharzGodfoot]

The Phantom Punch is easy enough. Make it a normal Fighting Style Ability and say it's a single ranged attack of up to 60 feet that deals damage equal to your slam attack.

It'd be better to word it as specifically NOT being your slam attack.

Because then you could do the Speed-reducing fighting style and just cripple someone into immobility from afar, then stay at ranged and just pound them to death, again from afar.

At that point just use the normal fighting style that lets you use a bow to apply fighting style effects.

[Maxus]

The Phantom Punch is easy enough. Make it a normal Fighting Style Ability and say it's a single ranged attack of up to 60 feet that deals damage equal to your slam attack.

It'd be better to word it as specifically NOT being your slam attack.

Because then you could do the Speed-reducing fighting style and just cripple someone into immobility from afar, then stay at ranged and just pound them to death, again from afar.

At that point just use the normal fighting style that lets you use a bow to apply fighting style effects.

You have a point. Do the Dungeon Monks have proficiency with bows?

[Maxus]

Okay, I have a couple...

Master Fighting Style:

*Your Master Fighting Style allows you to project the damage and effects of your slam attack in a 40' cone as a standard action

*Your Master Fighting Style allows you to project the damage and effects of your slam attack in 60' line as a standard action.

[Dean]

I'll adress concerns first and then go on to other things

To Surgo
I would respectfully disagree with you on the "Up The Walls" ability and tell you that in experience it probably gets taken the -most- of all the new styles I've yet made. The fact that it's not really useful the moment you're able to get a flying ability is made moot by the fact that you can trade out fighting styles when you get Master Fighting Styles, which also offer the Monks first flying ability. So the timing there is really perfect.
As to Whirlwind Attack I know that Tomes did away with prerequs but I made all of these with the idea in mind that people using them would probably not be using all of the Tome material. If someone IS using everything those guys ever made then no one will take Whirlwind Attack, but if not it's actually reasonably valid. As to the Damage Reduction, good point. I'll write in typeless DR for now because it's just the simplest but if your using all the Tomes stuff then I would go with DR/Wood I think.

To CatharzGodfoot
I felt that only allowing the first style to be a physical attribute better showed it as a novice technique. So while a master can make himself wiser or stronger or what have you a beginner can only improve their body. In addition I felt that Wisdom would be chosen much much more than anything else if I allowed mental abilities, but if you still feel the Fighting Style would work better allowing any ability boosted then I'm willing to change it.
I agree with your assessment of the similarity of the two styles you quoted but those were sort've on purpose honestly. They are different and I believe they're just different enough to allow someone who wants to play something a little different to choose those abilities instead. For instance Air Walking is faster and more powerful appearing but with the actual flight you could sort of float around the battlefield gracefully. Basically I like options for different kinds of characters
Your Wall of Stone ability intrigues me. To make it balanced and to fit with the theme of the Monk's abilities it would have to go away at the end of the round though. Or perhaps have a duration of "Concentration+1" rounds, so you -could- have two up but no more.

Now to my new ideas. I didn't want to flood the thread with them at first but I have quite a few styles I've made. So I think I'll just sort of bleed some out for the group to critique every day or two. So here's a batch, tell me what you think?

* While Active, your Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict bludgeoning damage and to inflict 2 points of Dexterity damage.
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to count as one size larger for the purposes of reach, trips, grapple attempts, disarms, and bull rush attempts.
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows your slam attack to count as a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1, this increases to +2 at 5th level, +3 at 10th, +4 at 15, and +5 at 20th
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to toss powerful energies at your opponents. You may count this energy as fire, cold, acid, or electric damage but you must choose the type at the time you first gain the style. The energy may be projected out to close range (using your monk level as your caster level), requires a ranged attack, and deals 1d8 damage per 2 caster levels
* While Active, your Fighting Syle allows you to use the spell "Summon Swarm" with a duration of Rounds = Concentration +1
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you take a standard action to make a melee touch attack. If it hits your next attack, which must be made the next round while still in this stance, recieves a +20 to hit
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to deal an additional 1+1/2 Monk levels on a successful attack

[Dean]

So here's a new one. I want a stance that pushes back the people it hits and I'm wondering how to do it. I have 4 ideas and they all get about the same thing done but in different ways. So tell me which of the following 4 you like best?

* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to force anyone you strike with your slam attack to make an opposed Bull Rush check with you, if your opponent fails his check he is pushed back the appropriate distance based on the check. You do not move with your opponent, and your opponent's movement does provoke attacks of opportunity

* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to force anyone you strike with your slam attack to make a grapple check (DC 10+ your grapple modifier), if your opponent fails his check he is pushed back the appropriate distance based on the check as if he had lost an opposed Bull Rush. You do not move with your opponent, and your opponent's movement does provoke attacks of opportunity

*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or be moved 10 feet in any direction you choose

*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or be moved 5 feet + an additional 5 feet for every 4 levels of Monk you have in any direction you choose

[Surgo]

Why not just use the Violent Thrust version of Telekinesis? There's even precedent for it already.

[Dean]

Because that's a Master Fighting Style and I feel it would be too good for a fighting style. Although if you are suggesting something like

# While Active, your Fighting Style affects any opponent you successfully bullrush with the violent thrust version of telekinesis, with a caster level equal to 1/2 your character level. There is no saving throw against this effect.

Then that might be in the right power range. It's just bullrush here and it's 1/2 your level as your caster level. It's fairly simple too so that might work. Whaddya think?

[Surgo]

It's a master fighting style that affects those you trip or whatever with a no-save Violent Thrust. You could Violent Thrust with a save on people you punch or something.

[Dean]

Well I've come to the conclusion after a bit of playtesting that no matter what I go with for my pushback style I can't use my idea of making opponents resist the effect with grapple checks. Grapple just doesn't scale well, some low level opponents will trounce you and some high level opponents will go right down.

So if I want a pushback style (or a style that forces opponents prone, which I've been pondering) it's gonna have to be tweaked. So with that in mind here's a reworking of a pushback style and a proning style (proning?) the I hope will work better.

*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom or Strength Modifier) or be moved 5 feet + an additional 5 feet for every 4 levels of Monk you have in any direction you choose

While Active your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom or Strength Modifier) or be forced prone

I made it so that you can add your strength or your wisdom to your DC which I feel makes it work better for stronger characters which I feel it should. However it still targets a save, which I feel makes it still progress through the levels and stay well balanced.

To Surgo
You may be on the right track man. How does this look/feel to you?

# While Active, your Fighting Style forces any opponent you successfully strike with your slam attack to make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or be affected by the violent thrust version of telekinesis, with a caster level equal to 1/2 your character level.

I personally don't think it's quite ready for play yet, it feels good and simple and functional it just reads a little too close to the Grand Master Fighting Style for me and thusly I'm worried it might be overpowered.

[Surgo]

Well the big selling point of the Grand Master style is that it doesn't give a save, and if you don't combine it with Gate it's not even all that impressive at that level, really... You can't really use those abuses so well with yours as you have a caster level that's 1/2 your character level (and you can only affect 1 target per strike anyway).

Violent Thrust is basically letting you push something 10' for every caster level you have. Maybe that's too much?

[CatharzGodfoot]

Well the big selling point of the Grand Master style is that it doesn't give a save, and if you don't combine it with Gate it's not even all that impressive at that level, really...

You combine it with 'trip anyone who attacks you', 'use with a weapon', and possibly a reach weapon to keep everyone at the proper distance.

[Dean]

First of all I just want to point out that I've totally overhauled the original post. It now much more accurately depicts what kind of community project I'd like to turn this into. So feel free to check it out. On the "tiny violent thrust" Fighting Style I've decided to start heavily playtesting this one

*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or be moved 5 feet + an additional 5 feet for every 4 levels of Monk you have in any direction you choose

It's been working well thus far, but if it doesn't pan out I'm gonna take Surgo's advice and just basically offer a saveable violent thrust version.

[K]

It might help you if I explained the way I wrote the Fighting Style options.

First, I looked at the good spells. All of the styles are modeled after spells that a character of that level would get if they were a spellcaster who avoided the bad spells. Spells are very flavorful and avoid the "must combine ten different bonuses to be effective but terribly flavorless" philosophy of most fighting abilities.

Second, I counted out any ability that wouldn't scale. For example, stunning is a useful ability even at 20th level. DR 10 is a joke by about level 10 (Wizard had it at level 7). Again, looking at common spells is a good indicator of the general power level that matters.

Third, I took out anything that another class might do as an iconic ability (sneak attack) or something that feats a Monk would take might replicate (whirlwind attack).

Fourth, they are mostly combat actions. Nuff' said.

So, after looking at your additional Styles I have to say that its a good initial start, but you haven't gone far enough.

As an example, let's say you wanted a fire-based style. I'll show you three different versions of what it would look like depending on where you wanted it (all three would NOT be included, since they would have to be different from each other for a flavorful Fire theme).

*As a Fighting Style, it does 1d6 damage per level to anyone that hits you or share your square, with a Ref save for half (can't be affected more than once a round). Roll damage once each round and apply that to anyone that hits you that round.

This is equivalent to what a Fireball is doing, but it has its own unique mechanic that feels Monkish (mages do it at range with AoEs, so no overlap there). It's also efficient (few rolls) and hard to abuse (applies once a round).

*As a Master Fighting Style, it does the same but with no Resistance or save.

At the Master level(9-13), you need to sex-up the basic Fireball damage so that it competes with spells of that level. Most spells have giant AoEs at this point or get juiced up by with metamagic for more damage.

Instead, we'll add in no Resistance and no save to make it consistent damage since at this level, monsters get both stupidly high saves and token resistances, so our monk at least gets damage useful at all levels. Combined with another Master Fighting Style option, you can mix consistent damage with another good effect.

*As a Grandmaster Fighting Style, its the same as a Master Fighting Style but it radiates at a 30' radius from the Monk. Considering that a Monk can move quite a bit, he gets a huge area here.

[Dean]

It might help you if I explained the way I wrote the Fighting Style options.

It has, thank you for responding.

Let me first address your point about making scaling abilities. Your original list consists of a small series of perfectly scaling abilities, when expanding this list I found I was only able to find a few that matched up with the same level of beauty. For instance you pointed out the Damage Reduction stance as one that loses it's viability eventually and this is true. However I have two points to make on the subject, one being that in recognizing that styles may be traded out it becomes less mandatory to make sure that all styles maintain perfect viability. It's still ideal, and still a goal but it's not exactly mandatory. For instance as I mentioned earlier the "Up the Walls" ability is one of the most commonly used, and that's because until about level 8 or 9 it opens up combat options that many other combatants cannot match, and it maintains -some- viability up until the very highest levels of play where everyone is simply assumed to fly. And at any of those levels where it begins to lose playability you have the option of replacing the style via your retraining rules once Master Styles are gained.

As to things like the Damage Reduction stance I faced another issue. I felt DR equal to your level would have stacked much better in the long run, but in the early levels I felt it would have been a bit too much. As such what I considered in instances like this was creating later versions that simply increased mathematically in power. For instance I might create a Master Style that gave DR equal to your level, or a Grand Master Style that gave DR equal to 2X your level.

Finally I want to ask how you feel about three abilities in specific, so as to get a strong second opinion about what to do with them
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you take a standard action to make a melee touch attack. If it hits your next attack, which must be made the next round while still in this stance, recieves a +20 to hit
*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or be moved 5 feet + an additional 5 feet for every 4 levels of Monk you have in any direction you choose
*Your Master Fighting Style allows you to project the damage and effects of your slam attack in 60' line as a standard action.

[JonSetanta]

This thread is so being saved.

[Dean]

This thread is so being saved.

So glad you like it. But don't be shy Sigma I've seen your Weaponsoul, if anyone can come up with a few great new styles and abilities it's you. So flex those mental muscles and add something!

[K]

Finally I want to ask how you feel about three abilities in specific, so as to get a strong second opinion about what to do with them
* While Active, your Fighting Style allows you take a standard action to make a melee touch attack. If it hits your next attack, which must be made the next round while still in this stance, receives a +20 to hit

Sorry, but this one is bad.

The Tome Monk already gets to add his Styles to all his attacks, so the ability to give up many attacks to auto-hit once is mechanically null (it's the same thing, basically).

At best, this mechanic lets you hit things well beyond your general power level. At worse, it gets you one successful attack in situations when you'd statistically still get one successful attack. It's also generally abusable in a Spring Attack and in a "Bag of Rats" situation (hit an ally for bigger attacks on an enemy).

You also have one Fighting Style effect bleeding into the next round, which negates the whole point of having them work for one round.

*While Active, your Fighting Style causes anyone struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or be moved 5 feet + an additional 5 feet for every 4 levels of Monk you have in any direction you choose

It's interesting, but in some ways it's more powerful than the seventh power in the Master Style list (TK with no save).

I also don't like that it let's you potentially toss around very large creatures as a better form of Bull Rush. That's not overly powerful, but it is weird.

So, its sorta unbalanced and weird and it overlaps ground already covered, so I'll say "back to the ol' drawing board."

*Your Master Fighting Style allows you to project the damage and effects of your slam attack in 60' line as a standard action.

Again, this is interesting, but you are covering ground already covered by Wizards and Sorcerers, which is "area attacks at range."

To make the general idea workable, change it to "automatic successful Slam attack to every square you enter during a Charge."

And yes, this is a Master Fighting Style.

---------------------------------

So after reviewing these, I guess there are some hidden sub-rules as well:

-Don't change action types: part of the Monk's power and feel comes from the fact that his Fighting Styles operate with his attacks. Once a Monk is no longer punching people and getting into the thick of combat, he's just a Sorcerer or Warlock. That's a viable character, but it's just not a Monk anymore.

-Unless you are granting status effects, Styles only last one round. That's so that you can switch it up from round to round without doing any bookkeeping, and so that people aren't tempted to synergistically pull more power out of the system. It's a basic usability issue that also discourages "Killer Combo!!!!" style thinking.

[Dean]

To the first I agree, I disliked that ability from day one and could never get it to feel right. I really liked the concept of a Monk being able to fire off one enormous punch but those are not the mechanics for it. I still feel the concept is valid and I would like to find a way to make it happen if only because it's eluded me for so long. Perhaps something like.....I dunno....."While Active your Fighting Syle allows you to use a standard action to make one attack as if you were using Power Attack to it's maximum penalty, however you take no negative to hit on this attack"

To the second, yeah, that was the form of this style that I eventually choose for simplicity. I had a large number of different permutations of this idea. It has two parts the Check and the Outcome and it was really just a problem of finding the right combination of the two. The style basically goes like this

While Active, your Fighting Style forces anyone you strike with your slam attack to...

CHECK
make a Fortitude/Reflex? save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier)
make a Fortitude/Reflex? save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom or Strength Modifier)
make an opposed Grapple check with you
make a Grapple check (DC 10+ your Grapple modifier)
become subject to an immediate opposed Bull Rush check

or be forced...

OUTCOME
to move 10 feet in any direction you choose
to move 5 feet+an additional 5 feet for every 4 Monk levels you have
to be pushed back the appropriate distance based on the check as if he had lost an opposed Bull Rush. You do not move with your opponent, and your opponent's movement does provoke attacks of opportunity (only works with the Grapple or Bull Rush checks)

The real problem is the checks. Originally I wanted to use the grapple check idea (the DC10+grapple mod one, to keep down on rolls) but the problem I found was that it scaled very wierdly. Medium sized but very strong opponents were able to be tossed around like dolls while opponents who were large or 4-legged were practically invulnerable. Saves scaled much better but I agree that there are some very wierd periphery effects that occur.

Finally good bottom points. That helps to give a more constructed path for future stances, and helps to eliminate some that might have caused problems. The only thing I would disagree with is this-

Once a Monk is no longer punching people in the face and getting into the thick of combat, he's just a Sorcerer or Warlock.That's a viable character, but it's just not a Monk anymore.

Firstly I editted it so they don't assume someone else is using your account. Secondly I would say that while the archetype of this Monk is to be brawling and punching I think that there are a lot of options to expand slightly beyond that for people who want it. For instance you yourself created the fire-breathing ability in recognition of the fact that some of the fiction people want to replicate with the Monk have him doing wierd and often non-punch related things. And that's no't a bad thing because all it does is allow people to play their own kind of character within the class. Essentially it's what your internet-counterpart Mr. Trollman would identify as a D grade bug. It's not really a problem it's just not the aesthetic your looking for.[/b]

[K]

Once a Monk is no longer punching people in the face and getting into the thick of combat, he's just a Sorcerer or Warlock.That's a viable character, but it's just not a Monk anymore.

Firstly I editted it so they don't assume someone else is using your account. Secondly I would say that while the archetype of this Monk is to be brawling and punching I think that there are a lot of options to expand slightly beyond that for people who want it. For instance you yourself created the fire-breathing ability in recognition of the fact that some of the fiction people want to replicate with the Monk have him doing wierd and often non-punch related things. And that's no't a bad thing because all it does is allow people to play their own kind of character within the class. Essentially it's what your internet-counterpart Mr. Trollman would identify as a D grade bug. It's not really a problem it's just not the aesthetic your looking for.[/b]

While I generally don't respect people who say "make it a feat" for every ability that people want, I do make an exception for serious departures from flavor.

The Fire Monk abilities I wrote up a few posts ago would work really well as a feat. Make it grant an extra Fighting Style, Master Fighting Style, and Grandmaster Fighting Style with a fixed portion of each that is Fire themed.

The problem is that the DnD monk has a very definite flavor. It does not resemble a Dragonball Z monk at all, or an Inuyasha monk, or even the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon monk.

That does not mean that those aren't valid permutations of a DnD character.

The DnD monk runs up to guys and puts his fist right through their breastplate....he does not do a Poison Claws attack where fools die with a scratch, which a Serpent School Monk might. The Serpent School Monk also should not be less of a skilled Monk just because he wants a Poison Claws attack and a Hooded Cobra Attack where he spits poison at people.

So if you want a laser eye beams, don't feel restrained by choosable Monk abilities. Make a laser eyes feat and make it choosable by any class. Call it Eyes of the Archon or Acolyte of the Burning Stare or Evoker's Blood (eyes). Let Serpent Sorcerers get Hooded Cobra Attacks and Poison Claws, and you'd be surprised by how fun your game gets.

Now, knocking people around is valid Monk flavor. Hitting them super hard is valid flavor. Moving super fast is valid flavor. Departures from flavor need a separate mechanic and PrCs are heavy handed answers compared to feats.

I mean, do you really want a Monk with Fire abilities and Snake abilities and Demon arts where his body goes demony, but he has no real ability to knock a guy out?

Keep coming up with ideas and I'll be happy to vet them. There is a lot of promise in what you've been working on and the abilities I wrote up are by no means complete or exhaustive. The hardest trick is to make clean mechanics that both capture the flavor in description and their operation. Trust me, I've botched my own fair share and it's one the reasons I work with Frank (everyone needs a second pair of trained eyes).

[JonSetanta]

This thread is so being saved.

So glad you like it. But don't be shy Sigma I've seen your Weaponsoul, if anyone can come up with a few great new styles and abilities it's you. So flex those mental muscles and add something!

-_-;

In all truth, the FnK Monk was inspiration. I saw how versatile the class was, yet it lacked a certain Fighter-esque technique that saying "I'm a Monk! I fight with my fists." doesn't accomplish.
But if the FnK Monk could insert a few weapon-specific abilities here and there (which isn't too hard, given that unarmed attack = weapon anyway) I might even put the Weaponsoul into the Abandoned Projects folder.
There's too much overlap, and this class does better.

Here's a thought: with the total sum of all new Monk styles, will a high-level character emulate Wu Xia films, or DBZ? Will one style (semi-mundane vs. weeaboo fightan magic) immediately trump the other?
Or, is both possible, either on the same scale or with Wu Xia transitioning into outright "I move so fast that you can't see me" or "His powerlevel is over 9000."


OK, some details:
• The Master style that grants invisibility is the same as total concealment, right?
• There is a style that grants Air Walk, and a new one that grants Fly. IMO the true flight should be left to mages, monsters, and winged characters, while anyone that throws it on as afterthought would be restricted (at the mid levels) to something almost as good. Although perhaps they could gain Fly a few levels behind those that sacrificed for such an ability earlier, as the Master styles are gained at L9 while flight is (usually) L5-6.
• The phrase "While Active, this ____ style grants" is redundant. Would it be too confusing for many players to note the list header and scan down a selection such as "Grants +4 to X as Y bonus" and "May throw opponents." etc? I did this with Weaponsoul (damn I hate that name now) for exactly that reason.
• The Grand Master style that creates earth/stone walls is fine. Mages had been doing the same for levels before, but the Monk does need something else in there. Sonic/Earth/Bludgeoning (aren't they all the same?) damage with Reflex save to all enemies within a set range in addition to the stone walls would work. First damage, then erupting stone.



Here's a change:
" * While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to toss powerful energies at your opponents. You may count this energy as fire, cold, acid, or electric damage but you must choose the type at the time you first gain the style. The energy may be projected out to close range (using your monk level as your caster level), requires a ranged attack, and deals 1d8 damage per 2 caster levels "

While this is better than the FnK Monk's Fireball attack, it does need work.

• Imagine making over 7 of these attacks in a single round. That's a lot of dice to roll. I suggest a set amount that increases constantly with levels yet allows varied damage with each result; 1d6 with + 3 or 4 per level, would fit.
• Needs to add some ability score to the damage output, such as STR or WIS. Maybe any single score, since the styles are adaptable.
• Range boost is sorely needed by Grand Master levels. It could be Close for first styles, Medium for Master, and Long for Grand, or a set distance of, say, 60 feet per BAB.
• For eye beam variants of shooting energy, it occurred to me that such a mechanic would be bad if the damage output depended on the number of eyes. It could really just be the same "shoot energy" ability declared as eyebeams, dealing the same damage if from one, two, or more eyes.


Fighting Styles

Basic
• Project a melee attack as a 5 foot wide Line out to BAB x 10 feet. The attack stops when it hits an opponent that was not reduced to 0 HP by the attack.
• Radiate light or shadow to a distance of 60 feet, chosen when the style is created. This radiance or darkness deals WIS bonus + the result of a Concentration check -10 damage to all Undead (light) or beings with a Constitution score (shadow) at the end of each of your turns.

Master
• Radiate light or shadow to a distance of 60 feet, chosen when the style is created. This radiance or darkness deals WIS bonus + the result of a Concentration check -10 damage to all Undead (light) or beings with a Constitution score (shadow) at the end of each of your turns.
• As each melee attack is made, your weapon gain an additional reach of an amount up to BAB x 5 feet. (Kotaru Fuma of Samurai Warriors 2. lulz.)
• The cloning technique (see below)

Grand Master
• Time Stop until the end of your turn. Only move and attack actions and skill checks that don't require opposed rolls may be made. The Monk is Fatigued at the end of the turn. (or is this the same as the "you can act twice each round" power?") It would be interesting to see both "time powers" in effect, since the Monk would be a speed expert at expense of more damage-efficient abilities.


Also, could we work in something about self-cloning as by the ever-popular "ninja technique"? It would work like summoning, but the copies are identical in appearance yet fight as a level-appropriate melee monster or NPC (for instance, severely reduced capability compared to you, the original). They can't cast but they can do some tasks such as attacks, defenses, aid another, skill checks (with big penalties).
I expect their capability with skills to be as powerful as getting a reroll on any check, so I expect the ability to be available by L9 at earliest, as by the Psionic power "Second Chance".
They vanish when hit for as much as (your level + some score) in damage.
In effect, a better version of 3.x Mirror Image, but with physical results.