4th Edition Quirks

[Shatner]

Right now I'm slowly working my way through the PHB, trying to get a better feel for 4e as a whole. Along the way I'm noticing lots of weird little things that stand out and I figured I'd post them here, away from the main 4e thread since these are merely individual findings, not observations on the system as a whole.

This list is about the abilities and tidbits that stand out. This can be because they are really effective at the level they become available (giving a +5 to hit bonus at 1st level), because they perform something nothing else does (disarm an opponent) or because it is a deviation from the mechanical and/or thematic norm for the given class (the cleric providing all-day flight for his allies).

Here's what I have gleaned from the cleric, paladin, fighter and rogue. More to come later...


Rightous Brand (Cleric 1, at-will): hit and give an ally up to a +5 to hit. Good for it's level if you are a strength cleric

Knights of Unyielding Valor (Cleric 10, Daily): effectively allows you to mark four squares as impassable to enemies until end of encounter. These obstructions can be moved with move actions. Allows you to fence in or screen out large enemies. The laser cleric and ranger then do a happy dance for the whole encounter.

Cloak of Peace (Cleric 16, Utility): gives you or an ally +5 to AC and +10 to all other defense for the duration of the encounter or until they attack. At face value, not terribly good but I'm including this for when someone manages to find a way of doing effective stuff without "attacking".

Cloud Chariot (Cleric 22, Utility): creates a flying ride that can carry 5 and grants all riders cover. Not only does it have a fly speed of 8, it also has no maximum height limitation like most fly effects and, here's the kicker, it lasts until the cleric takes their next extended rest! The cleric is now the provider of cross-country travel as well as giving the ranged attacks an easy win against most monsters. Of course, everyone could just buy hippogriffs but I don't think WotC realizes this...

Seal of Binding (Cleric 25, Daily): hits the target for some damage and makes then unable to act or be harmed except by this ability for as long as you sustain it. You sustain it with a standard action and both you and the target take 2d10 damage. The ability can not be sustained if you are bloodied. While entering into a HP attrition contest with a monster is generally a bad idea, this ability allows you to remove them from combat almost indefinitely (they don't make saves to end it or anything), especially if you have an ally offering you healing or you spend an action point to heal yourself. When facing NPCs who have roughly equivalent HP this ability wins, otherwise it removes the BBEG from combat long enough for the party to clean house.

Exorcism of Steel (Fighter 17, Encounter): does some damage to the target and makes them drop their weapon. If you have an open hand you automatically grab it. Underwhelming until you realize this is the only way to disarm someone in the game.

The Swordmaster Paragon Path is nice in that it allows you to regain expended daily and encounter attacks. Steel Grace mentions "Containing Strike" which doesn't exist, near as I can tell. Must be an editing mistake.

Sign of Vulnerability (Paladin 5, Daily): does damage but the big thing is it gives the subject radiant vulnerability 5 until the end of the encounter. Synergies really well with laser cleric and tron paladin making them very, very happy.

Even Hand of Justice (Paladin 29, Daily): does some damage and makes the target take the same effects and damage from its own attacks until it makes a save. The target is specifically made not immune or resistant to its own attacks. This is an awesome ability except for two things: the whole "save ends" (even though the target gets a -2 to it's save for this ability) and I believe targets gain full awareness of what has been inflicted on them (as is indicated in the Divine Challenge write up). If that is so then all monsters with even a modicum of intelligence will pull its punches until it (quickly) makes it's save. However, having an illithid mind blast itself or a bodack death gaze itself is cool... at least in theory.

The Hospitaler Paragon Path makes you a surprisingly effective healer in that your healing is generally reactive to what the enemy does. While a cleric will still be healing better than you, this class allows for more healing to occur during a combat because allies are getting hp back whenever they get hit and so on...

Blade Cascade (Ranger 15, Daily): you are allowed to make alternating attacks with your dual melee weapons against adjacent foes until you miss. This is kind of cool in that you can, with buffs and against foes with a low AC, pummel the crap out of them with a single standard action. In practice, this probably won't prove to be too powerful but it stands out and allows for major bragging rights by the ranger (hey, remember that time I hit that zombie seven times in all at once...)

Forest Ghost (Ranger 22, Utility): if you have cover or concealment then you are invisible to your enemies during their turn for the duration of the encounter. Basically, it's what Greater Invisibility should do, only it requires a little extra set up. That said, concealment and cover are fairly easy to come by

Follow-up Blow (Ranger 29, Daily): it's a stance that lets you make an attack with your off-hand weapon against every foe you hit with a melee power. Considering one of the primary schticks of the TWF ranger is to flip out and hit every enemy adjacent to him, this can add up to a lot of free attacks. Of course, these are basic attacks (and you suffer a -2 to hit... sigh) so no one will care anyway but it has potential if you are able to get a means of adding extra damage dice per attack (like sneak attack or the way flaming weapons used to work)

Battlefield Archer Paragon Path isn't bad. Really, it's the only ranger PP I could see liking (additional quarries as well as a bonus to hit)

KnockOut (Rogue 9, Daily): you hit the enemy for damage and they are rendered unconscious until they make their save or get hit again. Nothing special except that an ally can coup-de-gras before they have a chance to get wake up.

Bloody Path (Rogue 15, Daily): you move and all enemies you move past must make an AoO against you. All such attacks are directed at the attackers themselves. This ability isn't really very strong but the thought of running through a group of minions who all off themselves as you go by is pretty cool. Points for style...

Garrote Grip (Rogue 15, Daily): you grab an enemy and do a little damage. You get cover and all attacks that miss you hit your unwilling meat shield. Every round you maintain this grab the target takes more damage and after three consecutive rounds, falls unconscious. The target wakes up only when hit. Since you can sustain a grapple with a minor action and since you can continue making normal attacks with no penalty while grappling, you continue to strangle a fool while stabbing or shooting enemies like normal... with cover. When your enemy falls unconscious you can coup-de-gras him as part of your sustained garrote attack. Again, pretty cool though no doubt doomed to obscurity because an opponent can make two escape attempts a turn or simply continue to attack as usual (just not moving) and I don't think rogues are exceptional enough at grapples to reliably sustain this ability against level appropriate opposition...

Hide in Plain Sight (Rogue 16, Utility but usable once per encounter): only usable while hiding. You are invisible no matter what you do so long as you don't move. Lasts until you move. Say hello to mister invisi-rogue...

Cloud Jump (Rogue 22, Utility but usable once per encounter): you effectively double jump by jumping with a bonus then jumping again before hitting the ground. You are allowed to move further than your full movement. This combined with a few other Rogue utilities which jack up their jump checks could allow for some crazy "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" leaps. Mainly mentioned for it's weirdness; if the rogue's schtick is crazy jumping, what will the monk get? Even the name sounds monk-ish

Hide from the Light (Rogue 22, Utility): you are invisible and stay invisible so long as you don't move faster than 2 and make only basic and at-will attacks. Since combat is going to devolve into at-will attacks anyway, being able to wander around the BBEG's lair stealing shift, throwing levers and sneak attacking all while unseen sounds like a good thing.

Assassin's Point (Rogue 29, Daily): you deal 7[W] damage plus double any bonus damage from sneak attacks or crits. This is noteworthy because you can do 7[W] plus 10d6 sneak attack with ease, and seeing that many damage dice rolled warms my 3e heart.

[JonSetanta]

Thanks! You took the work out of 4e for the rest of us. I'll be abusing some of these when the chance comes.

[Voss]

On Righteous Brand- this power is good at all levels, forever. It snaps the RNG pretty effectively in a game that almost never allows you to do that. It really stands out since the laser cleric version only gives out a flat +2 bonus, and the warlord version requires charisma and strength, does piss-all for damage and the bonus has to be used against the same target.


Something that stands out for me: the resting rules are actually well written (ie, its clear exactly how long you need to rest, what happens with interruptions and that you can't fuck around with alternate timekeeping in pocket dimensions, and what keeping watch means in terms of actually resting) and aren't an arbitrary way for the DM to screw spellcasters if he feels like it. Of course, considering people have been bitching about them for 8 years, it'd be downright pathetic if they had bobbled them again.

[Harlune]

Something that stands out for me: the resting rules are actually well written (ie, its clear exactly how long you need to rest, what happens with interruptions and that you can't fuck around with alternate timekeeping in pocket dimensions, and what keeping watch means in terms of actually resting) and aren't an arbitrary way for the DM to screw spellcasters if he feels like it. Of course, considering people have been bitching about them for 8 years, it'd be downright pathetic if they had bobbled them again.

Sigh... it figures they'd fix that right after resting stops being vitally important for casters.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

I'm glad you noticed the same thing I did about knights of unyielding valor. You can trap a medium sized creature with 3 clerics. You could trap 3 medium sized creatures with 3 clerics if they were standing next to each other.

Also be sure to mention theWizard Paragon Path Blood Mage which has the Power Blood Pulse which makes enemies take 1d6 damage for every square they move. All of a sudden, these movement powers mean something!

[Shatner]

Beguiling Tongue (Warlock 2, Utility - 1/encounter): gives a +5 to your next talky skill check. Significant mainly because intimidate is surprisingly powerful in 4e and a 1st level warlock can have a +15 to their check if they're one of the "charisma" races (+17 if they're a dragonborn).

Summons of Khirad (Warlock 9, Daily): hit, do some damage and teleport the target to somewhere within 3 squares of you. Handy if there is a nearby cliff, pit or lava flow. That and, unlike the push/pull rules, I don't think a foe teleported 15 feet from the cliff's edge is allowed to try and catch themselves

Thief of the Five Fates (warlock 9, Daily): if you hit then you can roll whenever they roll and if your die shows a larger number than theirs, their attack or save fails. What's neat about this is you automatically have a 45% chance of blocking them from pretty much anything, including saves. Continues until you miss, not until they roll higher than you. This is one of the few abilities I've spotted which can prevent a solo monster from saving (since they inherently have an 80% chance of making all saves, reducing that to a 44% chance (55% chance of beating your "five fates" roll times an 80% chance of making their save) is pretty nice.

Warlock's Leap (Warlock 10, Utility): allows you to teleport 6 squares in any direction even if you can't see where you'll wind up. Fails if you would end up in an occupied spot. This is the first ability I've spotted that let's you bypass a dungeon wall. Not terribly significant otherwise.

Curse of Golden Mist (Warlock 15, Daily): if you hit then your target can't take it's next standard action. Can be sustained with standard actions, provided you keep hitting. Trading standard actions is generally a winning strategy when you are assumed to have 4 other party members backing you up.

Minions of Malbolge (Warlock 19, Daily): you gain 25 temporary hit points and all enemies that get adjacent to you take damage. The interesting thing is it lasts until you lose the temporary hit points which (checks the rules) last until you rest. Depending on the situation you could be looking at a long buff. You know, if you insist on do push-ups in between combat or something...

Curse of the Twin Princes (Warlock 25, Daily): you hit your target and this effect lasts until the end of the encounter. Everytime you get hurt you try and hit your target and, on a success, they take half of your damage for you. Also, if the two of you are adjacent than anytime someone attacks one of you they have a 50% chance of hitting the other. Note that this applies to allies attacking your target. Never the less it allows you to cause an awful lot of damage to flow from you to your target during other people's turn.

Curse of the Dark Delirium (Warlock 29, Daily): your foe spends all its actions as you dictate except that you can't make it do suicidal things or use powers. This continues until you miss the target (though sustaining costs a standard action). You can, however, have the unit order it's minions away or have it drop it's weapons down a well. Making the hill giant smack guys and dance around is fun but having the evil fighter hand you his artifact sword is awesome.

Hurl through Hell (Warlock 29, Daily): hurt your enemy a lot and have them vanish for up to four turns provided you keep spending minor actions to sustain the effect. The name makes it sound cooler than it actually is but it can keep an enemy out of combat for four rounds without allowing them a save or having to hit them repeatedly

the Doomsayer PP lets you force enemies to re-roll saves. Always useful and rather rare in 4e.

Make them Bleed (Warlord 15, Daily): you hit for some damage and the target takes 5 ongoing damage until they make their save. The kicker is that, for the rest of the encounter, all attacks against this target also cause 5 ongoing damage. This guarantees an extra 5 damage per hit, which isn't bad by itself, but over the course of a combat you are practically assured to have the target fail their saves a few times (even solos fail 1 out of 5) which piles on ever more damage. Not bad if it targets a big beefy monster that'll take a while to pummel into submission.

Victory Surge (Warlord 19, Daily): do some damage and all allies within 10 squares can make an extra basic attack as a free action until the end of your turn. After that you can sustain it indefinately with minor actions, allowing one ally to keep getting a free basic attack and this works even if your initial attack missed. If that ally is a "striker" that deals extra damage when hitting (rogue, warlock, ranger) that could add up nicely. At the very least, it'll make you popular with that player...

Flaming Sphere (Wizard 1, Daily): summon everyone's favorite immolated beachball to bump against your enemies for 2d6 + int. Also, enemies who start adjacent to it take 1d4 + int damage. Hilariously, you can effectively trade your character for the sphere for the duration of combat because you expend a standard action to attack with the sphere, a move action to move the sphere up to 6 squares and a minor action to sustain the power. However, at 1st level this little ball can easily accomplish more than you can in combat since 2d6 + 1d4 + 2 x Int damage can do between 13 and 26 damage, assuming you cranked your intelligence to the max. And as a wizard, why wouldn't you?

Sleep (Wizard 1, Daily): all enemies in a 2x2 burst are slowed until they save. Those that fail their save proceed to fall asleep. Not a bad little ability in it's own right that scales in usefulness through the levels (today's sleeping kobolds are tomorrow's sleeping ogres). If you include the follow-up coup-de-gras in the equation then it does nice damage for it's level. Add in the Orb of Mastery ability to lower an enemy's save by your wisdom mod and it will work more than half the time. Nifty AND first level.

Disguise Self (Wizard 6, Utility): you look like something else for an hour but the effect is only visual. Near as I can tell, this is the only way to impersonate someone since there aren't rules for disguise checks or anything. This plus invisibility makes the wizard the only character who can do infiltration missions without being a infiltrator (i.e. rogue, ranger, warlock).

Blur (Wizard 10, Utility): until the end of the encounter you get a +2 bonus to your defenses and enemies 5 or more squares away can't see you. Unlike other invisibility effects you can actually do stuff and maintain your glamar. Also, many wizard abilities are just distant effects that manifest (webs, clouds, walls, etc.) so you could feasibly be committing battlefield control mischief without giving your location away to distant enemies like a lightning bolt or fire blast would. Not very impressive but it has a niche...

Resistance (Wizard 10, Utility): you or an ally gain resistance to one energy type equal to your level + Int for the duration of the encounter. This seems to be the only way to grant a significant amount of energy resistance which has the potential to defang a one-trick-pony monster... or enemy laser clerics.

Bigby's Grasping Hands (Wizard 15, Daily): two hands sprout up somewhere within the area but they don't have to be adjacent (in fact, they could be as much as 95ft away from each other since it's range 10 and, as far as I can tell, that extends 10 squares in either direction of the caster. If I'm wrong then it's 40ft and still good). Yeah they grapple and yeah they hurt the dude being grappled but here's the funny part: as a standard action the two hands slam the grappled enemies into each other dealing damage and then returning the enemy and themselves to their original square (and still grabbing). What this means is, as a standard action, you are sending two enemies hurtling at break-neck speeds towards each other only to meet in the middle, smash painfully and then go zipping back like a malicious force-bungie jump. The ability isn't anything special but the flavor of having your wizard shout "If you're Bigby and you know it..." and then seeing a pair of hobgoblins go rocketing past is just too juicy to pass up.

Otoluke's Resiliant Sphere (Wizard 15, Daily): you hit and the enemy (or ally or yourself) is trapped inside a force bubble, immobilized and completely cut off from combat. The effect lasts until you stop spending minor actions on it or until the sphere takes 100 points of damage (all attacks automatically hit). This allows for a number of straight forward as well as weird tactics. The direct approach removes an enemy from combat for a potentially LONG time because some critters have a hard time inflicting 100 points of raw damage. You can also use the sphere as an emergency shelter for you or an ally. Furthermore the target may be immobilized but it can still be pushed or pulled, allowing you to steadily push the BBEG into the nearby portal of nastyness/lava flow/bottomless pit. It's also an unorthodox way for someone to cross a nasty environment (give the beefy fighter resistance to fire and have him push you through the Flame Lords six consecutive inferno walls). Lastly, all attacks against the orb are auto-hits and a heck of a lot of abilities require a hit to generate their really desirable effect, even the effect isn't against the target that was hit. So, the warlord pummels the sphere while all his allies keep getting extra actions and buffs and stuff. It's weird but there it is.

Mass Fly (Wizard 22, Utility ): everyone you like in a 5 square burst gains fly 8. Can be sustained with minor actions for the whole of the encounter OR for 5 minutes. Allows for a quick trip over trap-land or well entrenched mooks but also allows you to give the finger to any ground-based brutes. Of course the Cleric can do the same at this level for THE ENTIRE DAY but that's a different matter entirely...

Mordenkainen's Mansion (Wizard 22, Utility): 8 hours of posh, extradimensional accomodations for up to 50. Completely unbreachable except with Dispel Magic (which is now such a marginal ability that it's unlikely you'll ever encounter it). The wizard's council that rules a magocracy need never leave ever, provided there are at least three 22nd level wizards in the group. While not important for adventurers so much, it does allow a cabal of casters to lay low indefinately (given the sorry state of divinations in 4e) which has real setting and fluff ramifications.

Prismatic Spray (Wizard 25, Daily): everything in a size 5 burst is slowed and/or caught on fire and/or stunned while taking as much as 6d6 + 2xInt damage. While the damage isn't anything to write home about at this level, spamming that many effects on that many foes in a single standard action is going to have a real impact on combat... at least for a round or three.

Closing Spell (Battlemage 20, Daily): pick a damage type and blow up everything hostile in a size 5 burst for 3d10 + int. Unless this is your last daily power, then you add an extra 5d10 to the damage as well (miss for half). Doing 8d10 damage is pretty hefty at any level. At 20th level, it's enormous. Granted it'll average to 44 + int damage which isn't as large a fraction of a level 20 baddies hp total as we'd like. However, at 20th level you can expect a hush to fall over the table as eight d10s get rolled by a player with a manic grin...

The blood mage PP kills things dead. Most of the time it's enemies but every once in a while it'll be the wizard itself. Depending on how consecutive damage from the same ability is treated, Bolstering Blood could make spells either somewhat more damaging or insanely more damaging. The former stacks nicely with area attacks, the latter goes well with every. Heck, even cloud of daggers would be surprisingly lethal if the initial damage was increased by 2d10, as was the secondary damage of starting in the cloud. This ability bears very close attention because it has the potential to suddenly make wizards worthwhile strikes for the entirety of an encounter, rather than just for the first 7 rounds.

Blood Pulse (Blood Mage 11, Encounter): enemies in a size 3 burst take trivial damage. Meh. However every one of them that was hit takes 1d6 damage for every square they leave until then end of your next turn. Holy crap! Synergy! (Thanks Bill Bisco for the heads up, btw). Again, if Bolstering blood adds 2d10 damage to the 1d6 they take for every square the target then this is suddenly AMAZINGLY deadly. If not, it's pretty freaking good. Expect some sort of errata or clarification on Bolstering blood pretty soon because that ability is way too powerful and way too ambiguously defined.

The wizard of the spiral tower is a gish PP for every martial class character who multiclassed as a wizard... and for Eladrin wizards who stupidly want to hit stuff with a longsword. Being able to use your longsword as your implement can save you a lot of cash, which may or may not be important depending on how the game's economy shapes up. Unlike other classes, each paragon path for the wizard seems pretty good and there is an option for every schtick your likely/allowed to take. As such, this PP is comparatively less cool than it would be elsewhere. It's good to be a wizard...

Also wizards have a epic destiny hand made for them, the Archmage, and it's pretty good. So I guess WotC still loves their wizards or hates everyone else. If nothing else, this whole Epic destiny section feels very incomplete. I think we aren't supposed to have characters reach this level until WotC can roll out the PHB2 or some other loopy splat books.

Trickster Disposition (Deadly Trickster 26, Utility): once per day you can turn any one d20 roll made by the DM into a 1. No reroll is possible. While not very powerful, it is a core-rules-sanctioned bitch slap from the player to the DM. That's certainly worthy of note.

Demigod is nice for everyone. Which is good because it's all anyone who isn't a rogue, warlock, wizard or multiclasser is allowed to take. Being able to cycle through your last remaining encounter powers infinitely is pretty nice and attribute points are immensly important now. It actually makes a decent alternative to Archmage for the Wizard.


Well, if it weren't for the wizard class this would have been a much shorter list. Warlord looks cool; rather, it's the coolest melee combat multiplier I've seen in a long time. However its abilities are really just repetitions of the same theme (give allies extra actions and/or heal them) and have very few that actually stand out. At face value it looks like the warlock would be good at hurting things (as much as anything is in 4e). That's good because that's its job and it looks like it gets enough other, lesser gimmicks (debuffs, combat control and sneaky/dastardliness) to keep it from getting boring. Still, it looks like warlock and warlord both have MAD issues.


Next I'll look through the feats and combat rules.

[Voss]

Not entirely sure about the warlord, but the warlock doesn't have much in the way of MAD issues.
Either Max Con, put int at 14, and dump charisma, or do the opposite (max charisma, dump con). Or do Max, 13,13 if you really want to have the defenses. Raise the max stat and int as you level, and not care.
Star should focus on Con, and ignore the handful of charisma powers they get. Only problem is the paragon path, which is charisma focused just to spite you, since you get the best pact boon of all 3. Multiple cumulative bonuses to hit when curse victims die, in a system that almost never hands them out? Or a handful of temp hit points? please.

Oh, yeah, and be a human, dwarf or half-elf. Or one of several races if you do fey pact, but really, tiefling is your best option there (and pretty much the only time you want to be a tiefling).

[Manxome]

Thief of the Five Fates (warlock 9, Daily): if you hit then you can roll whenever they roll and if your die shows a larger number than theirs, their attack or save fails. What's neat about this is you automatically have a 45% chance of blocking them from pretty much anything, including saves. Continues until you miss, not until they roll higher than you. This is one of the few abilities I've spotted which can prevent a solo monster from saving (since they inherently have an 80% chance of making all saves, reducing that to a 44% chance (55% chance of beating your "five fates" roll times an 80% chance of making their save) is pretty nice.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your description, I don't think that math's correct. You can't just multiply probabilities unless they're independent, and it's my impression that rolling high makes you both more likely to save and more likely to prevent someone else rolling higher than you. (Imagine a monster that only saves on a 20--how do his chances change when under this effect?)

Still, his actual save chance can't be higher than the lower probability of the two, so that's probably still a hefty penalty.

[Harlune]

Making the hill giant smack guys and dance around is fun but having the evil fighter hand you his artifact sword is awesome.

Of course, if I understand 4ed rules well enough, that sword would vanish into nothing the instant it touches a PC's hand or something.

[UmaroVI]

Star Pact gets an absolutely sickeningly powerful ability: Accursed Shroud. It has to reroll every successful attack it makes and take the second result so long as it remains cursed, and AFAIK you can't uncurse yourself except by dying (or rather, dropping below 0 hp, which kills monsters).

Star Pact has some wierd attribute dependancy. All-con is one option, but you'd be crazy to skip out on Accursed Shroud, and unfortunately the whole paragon path is cha-based.

However, another option is go Charisma and multiclass with Paladin to fix your triple attribute dependancy. I think this is a worthwhile option, since you can have a good or great power in every slot, whereas if you go straight con, some levels you have no viable power. For example, 23 encounter, 17 encounter. Of course, you could also go Con and multiclass, but whereas it's easy to find paladin stuff that works great for a star-lock, it's not so easy to find enough good con-based stuff in one class. And you still get stuck with paragon path powers like the very nice Long Fall into Darkness that you can't use well.

EDIT: Actually, no other class has purely con-based powers; only warlocks do that. Also, if you go this route and aren't level 30 for Demigod infinite encounter powers, you need to be human so you can grab Eyebite for a Cha based At-will

[Voss]

Accursed shroud is the one nice power about the doomsayer, since it doesn't require attack rolls at all. That said, since its daily, it isn't exactly overwhelming.

The trick to dealing with the charisma issue on star pact warlocks is either to take the infernal powers at 17 and 23, or don't swap out your earlier powers.
Spite darts is nice, since it affects a rather large area. For example, stick with the level 3 power: frigid darkness. Damage isn't great (but when is it?) but the target grants combat advantage to everybody, and has an AC penalty = your Int mod. Which should be -4 at 17th level, and -7 at 28th. So you're essential giving out a +6 to +9 to hit (+4 at 3rd).

I need to look over charisma options, but I'm still underwhelmed by what the powers actually do.

[Username17]

Thief of the Five Fates (warlock 9, Daily): if you hit then you can roll whenever they roll and if your die shows a larger number than theirs, their attack or save fails. What's neat about this is you automatically have a 45% chance of blocking them from pretty much anything, including saves. Continues until you miss, not until they roll higher than you. This is one of the few abilities I've spotted which can prevent a solo monster from saving (since they inherently have an 80% chance of making all saves, reducing that to a 44% chance (55% chance of beating your "five fates" roll times an 80% chance of making their save) is pretty nice.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your description, I don't think that math's correct. You can't just multiply probabilities unless they're independent, and it's my impression that rolling high makes you both more likely to save and more likely to prevent someone else rolling higher than you. (Imagine a monster that only saves on a 20--how do his chances change when under this effect?)

Still, his actual save chance can't be higher than the lower probability of the two, so that's probably still a hefty penalty.

Yeah, actually has very little effect on enemies who save on a 10+. On a 10 (1 in 20) you stop the save on an 11+ (10 in 20); on a 15 (again 1 in 20) you stop the save on a 16+ (5 in 20). All in all you stop a save 55 times in 400, when the save already fails 180 times in 400. Total shift is that they fail 47/80 instead of 36/80.

More interesting on Boss Monsters, because they save on very small numbers that are easy to stop. They start off failing only 80 in 400 rolls, and your ability stops them 120 in 400, so you end up with them not saving half the time instead of 20% of the time. That's a big deal.

Of course, it's a daily ability that requires an attack roll every round to maintain. You'd rather hit them with Curse of the Black Frost in almost all circumstances. Even though that's a bullshit tiny amount of damage.

-Username17

[Shatner]

I mis-read Thief of the Five Fates, thinking that the target and the warlock made an opposed "curse roll" before the target actually got to make their save or attack. Thanks for the oversight...

I haven't had a chance to look over the skills yet so I just have the feats. I'm intensionally leaving Jack of all Trades and Skill Proficiency out of my observations for now and will include them when I do the skills.


The first thing to realize is that feats are much cheaper in 4e than 3e. You gain one feat at every even level as well as one at 1st level. Humans, as usual, get an extra feat at 1st level. Also, each level allows you to retrain, swapping out feats and powers as you go. THANK GOD! While retraining shouldn't effect your feat selection too much assuming you took feats that were actually advantageous. This will NOT hold true if you are multiclassing because you will be swapping out powers and probably old feats willy-nilly.

WotC, it seems, took a good long look at feats, assembled a panel of experts, debated the topic rigorously then decided "fuck it, we'll just give people +2 bonuses and take an early lunch." The design intent behind feats is to allow players to specialize their characters by giving a +2 bonus to a specific type of attack, defense or check. That's the rule of thumb anyway but we'll see what else we find...

Armor feats above leather have strength and constitution requirements. I guess this is a way of preventing the wizard from wearing full plate. Smacks of Blizzard's Diablo games.

The same oddly holds true for a number of wizard/warlock oriented feats which make certain damage types do +1 damage. I'm unsure as to why. It's one thing for the wizard to <gasp> put on armor. It's another for the fighter to, I don't know, want their flaming sword to do an extra point of damage... or something... I got nothing.

Every race has two or three racial feats and they are all pretty good though not all of them are contained in the Heroic feat section. For example, dwarves get a +1 AC and Reflex against everything large or larger. They can also get a +2 damage bonus to the racial weapons they'll be using anyway. What's weird is that half-elves only have one racial feat and it sucks because frankly a +1 to insight and initiative to your allies is pretty lame. Why bother having half-elves if everyone, including the game developers it seems, hates them so much?

Special attention should be given to the human feats: Action Surge, Human Perseverance and Action Recovery. Human Perseverance gives you a +1 to fort, reflex and will which is really good. Action Surge gives you a +3 to hit when you spend an action point to attack. While I have a hard time getting excited about a bonus to a single attack per combat it looks like this may be one of the better feats available. Action Recovery allows you to make a save against all the ongoing effects you're suffering... also good.

Also, it's good to be a halfling. Their second-chance ability, as well as the feat that improves it, is nice. Lost in the Crowd (+2 AC when adjacent to two or more enemies that are larger than you) is pretty much a permanent +2 to AC for the melee halfling and Underfoot makes it so you can run under and around Large or Larger opponents without suffering any obstructions or attacks of opportunity. Since most monsters worth worrying about by Paragon level are going to be larger than medium size anyway, these feats are generally permanent buffs like Great Fortitude or Human Perseverance. I can only guess these strong feats are in to, in some way, make up for the fact that being small is now objectively suckier than being medium-sized (limited weapon choices, less effective at push/pull/bull rush/etc while not getting any inherent attack, defense or skill bonuses to make up for it).

Ranges in 4e are pretty small compared to 3e. This makes far shot (+5 squares to short and long range) especially attractive to bow rangers and bow rogues since their big thing involves not getting caught in melee.

Linguist gives you fluency in three languages. Aside from the Comprehend Language ritual, which doesn't actually let you speak the language until around 10th level, this is the only way to understand an unknown language. The importance of this feat will depend immensely on the campaign.

Anyone not a warlock can dump con if they're willing to spend two to three feats on the following: Durable, Great Fortitude and Toughness. Toughness actually gets you a bigger bonus to HP than you'd ever get from con and it scales with every tier you reach.

Most class-specific feats are better than your standard feats. If you are a warlock you WILL take the pact-specific feats because you're not an idiot. Agile Hunter (when you melee crit your hunter's quarry target, shift and they get a -2 until the end of your turn), however, is a platter of weak sauce meant to lure the ranger into wasting a feat.

With everything being harder to kill or neutralize, going first in combat doesn't seem as important as it once was. As such, improved initiative is only really important for bow rogues and battlefield control wizards/warlocks. Ditto for Danger Sense which lets you take the higher of two rolls. Oddly enough, the initiative bonus from Quick Draw (a +2, btw) and Improved Initiative don't stack. That's a pity, though I'm glad they improved Quick Draw a little.

Every single dual weapon ranger in existence will have two weapon defense (+1 to AC and Reflex while dual wielding). No one else will. The same can be said of Two Weapon Fighting (+1 to hit with your main weapon while dual wielding).

Every single rogue in existence will have nimble blade (+1 attack with a light blade when you have combat advantage) and backstabber (sneak attack does d8s instead of d6s).

Weapon Proficiency, unlike armor proficiency, has no other feat requirements. As such there is really no reason to chose anything except proficiency in one of the superior weapons UNLESS you need longsword proficiency for the Wizard of the Spiral Tower paragon path. If you are a rogue, I would suggest the rapier since daggers, while nice and slightly more accurate, are very weak and you are a damage dealer.

The divinity feats are a real mix. Trading a feat for an extra encounter power is, on the surface, a damn good trade. However, most go something like "when you/an enemy/an ally crit/are critted upon gain a slight bonus to one roll/heal/negate something". Again, I don't generally care about crit-triggered abilities that you have to pay something for but that's my bias. That said, Moradin's Resolve (+2 attack against large or larger targets until the end of your next turn), Melora's Tide (a bloodied individual gains regen 2*tier until they are no longer bloodied) and Pelor's Radiance (laser clerics gain a burst laser attack against undead only) all seem worthwhile.

Arcane Reach is really odd. If you are using a close power you can set the origin square to be anywhere within 2 squares of your location. Useful for gishes and splodey mages, I guess.

Combat Anticipation is seemingly misnamed. It effectively gives you a +1 defense against all non-melee attacks. I'd call it something like Dive for Cover or Difficult Target.

Remember before taking armor specialization that it grants a feat bonus to AC which won't stack with the feat bonus to AC you could be getting from many other feats. This is a trap for the inattentive (or a boon if everyone just assumes the bonuses stack). To quote Wally, "Stupidity is like radiation; it can be used for good or evil and you don't want to get any on you."

Dwarven Durability gives dwarves 2 more healing surges and they recover extra HP equal to their con mod... you know, in case your dwarf wasn't hard enough to kill as is.

WotC has gone to great lengths to ensure all elves played are rangers. Running Shot is further proof of this (no attack penalty to ranged attacks after a run action).

Heavy Blade Opportunity (use an at-will ability instead of a basic attack when making AoO with a heavy blade) further galvanizes fighters and paladins to all wield swords because it's so much better than the other paragon-tier-weapon-specific feats.

Lasting Frost gives your target ice vulnerability 5 until the end of your next turn after you hit them with ice damage. While this is nearly a +5 to all ice damage (which would be a pretty good feat for certain casters), no one has ice damage attacks at-will so really it's just a +5 to your second, and probably last, ice attack. UNLESS you are a wizard intent on using Frost Ray. If you, for some reason, decide to fit this niche than have at and enjoy the comparatively huge boost to the spell's comparatively small damage.

Since cover and concealment are pretty easy to come by, Point Blank Shot (which negates those plus superior cover when your target is within 5 squares of you) effectively gives the ranger a +2 to his attack. Not bad.

I'm conflicted on Polearm Gamble (you can make a AoO with a polearm if the enemy moves adjacent to you but you grant it combat advantage for a turn). Suddenly a reach weapon is actually working almost as good as a reach weapon should work. On the other hand you're making yourself vulnerable to attacks while dealing nothing more than a basic attack yourself. On the other, other hand you're probably a fighter and therefore "drawing hate" is in your job description. I'm still not convinced that reach weapons are worth the opportunity cost of using a sword (and optionally carrying a shield) but this feat at least adds a little to entice you... but only a little.

Psychic Lock inflicts a -2 penalty to all enemies hit with pyschic damage. This synergizes nicely with the Fey-Pact warlock who can use Eye-Bite as an At-Will power that deals psychic damage.

Surprisingly, Blind Fight is almost a good feat because it nullifies concealment and invisibility for enemies adjacent to you, but just for you. If this worked against ranged attacks as well I'd actually endorse it.

Every single wizard EVER will have Spell Focus (enemies take a -2 to saves versus wizard powers) as well as Arcane Mastery (exchange an action point for another use of a daily power).

Ditto for warlocks and Twofold Curse (can drop curses on two foes per minor action instead of just one)

Font of Radiance is the feat of choice for laser clerics and tron paladins. The target of your radiance attacks glows until they save, removing invisibility and concealment from itself and adjacent squares as well as inflicting 3d6 radiance damage to them.

Two Weapon Flurry (and Epic feat, mind you) is another ranger-feat trap (when dual wielding and you successfully bonk someone during an AoO you can make an additional basic attack with your offhand weapon with a -5 to hit). Offhand melee attacks are going to average around 4 or 5 points of damage before tacking on expensive enchantments. And with a -5 attack penalty, I can't bring myself to care. I get a larger damage bonus from taking the Power Attack feat (doing either +6 one handed or +9 two handed at epic level) while suffering a much smaller attack penalty (only a -2).

The multiclass feats are there for you to tweak and munchkin out as much as is possible in 4e. Overall I'm not very impressed with most of the heroic tier feats so I would consider multi classing just as a way to get more bang for my feat-buck in those early levels.

[Voss]

Human perseverance is wrong, by the way. Its +1 to saves, not to all the non-AC defenses. Thats a racial trait.

Basically. most of the feats suck. There are about a half a dozen that you'll want for any given character, and if you're making a <build> of <class> you'll always want those feats.

Whoever thought +1 damage/ 10 levels was feat worthy deserves a big-ass boot to the head, however.

Biggest thing I dislike about feats? They took an active word, and associated it with completely passive bonuses.

[RandomCasualty2]

Basically. most of the feats suck. There are about a half a dozen that you'll want for any given character, and if you're making a <build> of <class> you'll always want those feats.

Yeah, The weapon focus versus dwarven/eladrin weapon training feats are really odd. They both give feat bonuses (so they don't stack). Yet the racial bonuses give a +2 to damage immediatley (but don't improve), where weapon focus is a +1/+2/+3 progression at each tier. So you're basically going to grab the racial one at first level and then reform it away when you hit epic. Kind of pointless if you ask me.

I mean but overall if you look at 3.5's list of core feats, they were pretty god awful too, so it's not really like 4E has less choices, because we only have a lot 3.5 choices since we have years worth of splatbooks, as opposed to just the core.

[Voss]

Since you're better off with swords at all levels, yeah, it really is pointless.

[mlangsdorf]

How is Toughness better than Con 12 at any level past 5th?

Toughness is 5, 10, or 15 extra hit points. A Con of 12 is +1 HP/level. What am I missing here?

[Voss]

Because CON doesn't give +hp/level in 4e. You would (with a 12) just get 12 hit points at first level... and thats all. The only thing the mod is used for is fort defense, (if its higher than Str), Con warlock attacks, extra healing surges and the endurance skill. So toughness really does give more hit points than you'd get from a higher CON (since you'll start at a minimum of 8 )

So if you aren't a warlock, its pretty pointless. You might want a bonus healing surge or two, but thats where durable comes in. You'll run out of daily powers (you only have 1-4) within 4-6 encounters if you're cautious with them, and someone will probably run out of surges before that. So you just go off and rest and not even care.

[mlangsdorf]

Thanks, I had completely missed that.

Wow, CON is completely pointless for most classes.

[RandomCasualty2]

Paladins may want con so they can spend surges to heal other people, but that's about it. I mean, given that the 5 minute workday hasn't been fixed, it's just a matter of resting whenever your shit gets low, unless your DM explicitly forbids you from doing that.

Also anyone notice that it's totally easy to hack through doors and walls now, since they have no hardness? A vault door seriously only has 30 hp and no hardness. See page 65 of the DMG. It's pretty sick. Also kind of sad that the only thing they could think of for huge and gargantuan example objects was "big statue" and "even bigger statue"

That shit just makes me laugh and then cry.

Apparently the dungeon burrowing phenomenon that 3E had was too difficult for the designers. So don't even bother buying the adamantine dagger anymore. Just use an axe, or a regular dagger... or even fuck, just punch down that vault door or stone wall, because you totally can even with no strength bonus.

[Koumei]

On the other, other hand

You have three hands?

[Talisman]

On the other, other hand

You have three hands?

Let's give 'im a hand, folks...

(ducks)

[JonSetanta]

I'm all for this game if I can play a Fighter with 3 swords.

2 in hand, 1 in mouth.

[Koumei]

Well we've already established that this polearm-wielder has three hands, so they'd be much better off swapping for 1-handed swords. That's 3, or 4 if you want to hold one in the mouth.

5 if you have lubricant.

[Bigode]

Well we've already established that this polearm-wielder has three hands, so they'd be much better off swapping for 1-handed swords. That's 3, or 4 if you want to hold one in the mouth.

5 if you have lubricant.

Why not 6 (I mean, if one's going for as many weapons as possible, which I certainly wouldn't)?