The Ends v4.01

[Kaelik]

Any particular reason for that?

Apparently gitbook is going through a site wide revamp that is killing all the old content and making it hard to migrate it somehow.

[Lokathor]

Yeah, in the new version of GitBook you can only have 1 free document per organization unless you go through a whole song and dance to prove to them that you're a non-profit and/or open source project. I wanted to put EOTM and After Sundown onto the same new system, and revised gitbook can't be that system.

Also, since I first put it all up on gitbook long ago, a similar marktown-to-html program that's very very easy to use called mdbook has come out for normal person availability, so now the books are built with that.

[Trill]

The rigging section says that you take the costs of the various Modifications as they would cost in a human and multiply that by a factor based on size.
My question is: What about other sensors, like Geiger Counters or Radar Sensors? These don't have a cost for implantation in humans, just for gear.
Should I just take those costs and leave them unmodified, or should I modify them based on vehicle size?

[Lokathor]

Just use the normal cost

[Lokathor]

Here's a question, and I can see people going more than one way on this one:

Can a Sprite be merged into another Network as if it was a normal device?

[Trill]

What do you mean with "merged"? If you mean joining a network like a pair of glasses or a wireless-enabled gun would, then the answer is the same as to the question "Can a metahuman brain be merged into a network?"
If you can add a metahuman brain to your network like you would with a device, then obviously it is possible to have multiple "brains" in a network and it should be no problem.
If no then only one brain can be in each network, so a sprite shouldn't be able to join one.

[Lokathor]

Yeah, I mean like you merge a gun or a goggles into your PAN.

So the question becomes what, if any, should be the rules for adding in 2nd, 3rd, and so on brains to an already occupied Network.

[Kaelik]

While there are a lot of confusions about what does or doesn't count as an Icon or network at various points, my interpretation is that actually, Sprites operate like ICs/OSes on a network if you want, if you want your sprites to be part of your, or your friends networks.

If you are rocking some Sprites around, you can slap them into your network and have them defend and support it, but you would only get one IP no matter how many sprites you have, and they would use their own numbers for doing shit. They could sustain any programs they have on you as part of "your" network but it counts against your network limit (of course, they could sustain those programs on you after connecting to buy not merging with your network, at the cost of having to make their own Matrix stealth rolls with Datamasking or running Cloak (or not be able to Matrix Stealth))

[Lokathor]

Datamasking:

I honestly can't tell if a Sprite should be allowed to roll Intuition+Hacking to try and Matrix Stealth even without Datamasking. I'm not recalling any points in the rules other than in the Datamasking power where it talks about Sprites being unable to Forge Credentials or Matrix Stealth.

Option 1) A Sprite without Datamasking simply cannot take the Forge Credentials OR Matrix Stealth actions.

Option 2) A Sprite without Datamasking cannot Forge Credentials, but it CAN Matrix Stealth (though it might have to Default, only 4 Sprite types actually have Hacking). The point of Datamasking is that a Datamasked Sprite can choose to be plainly visible to others as something other than itself (and you still beat the trick with Matrix Stealth because we don't need special rules for just 1 power). And this is similar to but not the same as having done a Forge Credentials action.

I'm partial to Option 2.

Merging Sprites into a Network:

The thing here is that there's literally a Merge power, which only Machine Sprites get (EDIT: also Industry, and Crack optionally, my bad):

Normally speaking, a sprite is not "in" a device, but a Sprite with the Merge power can do so. The sprite simply finds an orphan device and joins with it. The device behaves as if the sprite were networked with it. The sprite then can only interact with the Matrix through the device's own wireless or wired capabilities, but so long as the sprite is merged with a device it is not affected by Background as a sprite normally would be. In this way a sprite can crawl into a drone and drive off into a dead zone without winking out of existence.

Option 1) So, if any Sprite can be merged into any Network at any time as if they're simple Devices, then is the point of the power simply to make them protected against Background they might suffer from while subsumed into a Network?

Option 2) Or is the power saying that any Sprite without the power (including all Non-Machine Sprites) must be kept as its own Network at all times.

Again, I'm partial to Option 2 here as well.

[Kaelik]

1) I think Sprites fly around like VR technomancers unconnected to any networks (this is their default state, explained in rules like)

"Sprites appear to have a specific location at any given time, and while they don't need to be “in” a particular device, they do require the presence of the high density signals given off by matrix capable devices or they fade away. "

As one of the very first things said about Sprites. Or the implied result of the AI rules.

2) I think while Sprites are existent in space, in the matrix, they can connect to devices like a technomancer can (IE, declare themselves connected just like that) This should be pretty apparent from how most if not all have complex forms that are connection range, or the ability to obtain them.

3) I think further, that multiple brains or sprites or ICs can all be "in the same network" and that what this does is a) provide greater protection for the more vulnerable people on the network, b) Totally prevent the weaker entities from acting on the network in any real sense, and let the one that is "really" running it do whatever they want, c) effectively require agreement from the weaker entities to create the starting condition, except for Seize Network, which does this to other people even when they don't want. d) Make it so only the dominate controller (and the best IC) can actually take any matrix actions in the network. So you can't gain defense powers by slaving multiple brains together without giving up lots of matrix actions.

4) The Merge power has literally nothing to do with any of this, because the above is about MATRIX actions and connections and networky shit, and you can be connectted to 500 devices in one network, or you can be connected to 5 networks, and those networks could all be sharing 200 devices while each one also has it's own separate 4-12 devices or they could be sharing no devices at all.

Merge is not about connecting a device to the Sprites network, it's about BEING in the device, and it's EXACTLY a 1 to 1 version of Jumping Into Device but for Sprites, right down to getting 3 passes and full actions as a Drone so you can be be a technomancer and have your sprite drive cars and Rig drones.


Which is why they ONLY two Sprites that get it natively are:

a) the Industry Sprite with Innate Form Pilot and Skill (Technical or Vehicle)

IE, supposed to be able to pilot drones or run an assembly machine, or drive a car.

and

b) Machine Sprite: Native (Skill choose a vehicle), and Optional Innate Form (Pilot or Operations)

IE, also supposed to run drones and/or drive cars.

And the only one with Merge as an optional power is the Crack Sprite, which has Native Datamasking and BACKDOOR, along with every other method of getting into a system, so it's about leaving a virus in a system for long term maintenance not flying around hacking on the fly, so you might want to leave it in a camera so it can't be detected.

[Lokathor]

Yeah, it doesn't make an ounce of sense that any Sprite has Backdoor.

[Grek]

If a Sprite is connected to a node, it is automatically within Handshake range of everyone else connected to that node. (This is true of everyone, not just Sprites.) Even people who are outside of Signal or Listening range of the Sprite. Backdoor in turn allows that Handshake to be upgraded to Connection. It can even do so recursively, eventually connecting to someone who's connected to a server that's connected to a different server that's connected to yet another different server that's within range of the Sprite. Connection range implies Handshake range, which in turn implies Signal and Listening range.

This is, admittedly, not something that's going to come up often. Sprites can fly at the speed of fucking light, after all. But if a target is covered in area jammers and only accessible via a wired connection, you'll be glad to know that Crack Sprite can still get you in.

[Kaelik]

Yeah, it doesn't make an ounce of sense that any Sprite has Backdoor.

Nah, it makes perfect sense that a specific kind of infiltration Sprite with Merge might have backdoor, because the point is to toss your sprite into a device, so it can't use it's ability to connect to devices anymore, and then it can, while chilling in that device, hack things.

So you infiltrate a secret location locked in a faraday cage, and you put your sprite into a camera or drop a bug transmitter behind a counter in that location and leave it so that it can hack or keep hacking for later.

[Lokathor]

Alright, I'm convinced on Backdoor not being wasted ink for Sprites to have.

I'm also convinced that Merge can be like a suped up version of Jump Into Drone that allows for any device to be jumped into (even non-drones) and the Sprite gets protection from Matrix Background while merged.

So should there be text to say that a drone can't Jump Into Drone without Merge, or that they can but that they're still affected by Background while doing so if they don't have Merge?

[Trill]

Datamasking:

I honestly can't tell if a Sprite should be allowed to roll Intuition+Hacking to try and Matrix Stealth even without Datamasking. I'm not recalling any points in the rules other than in the Datamasking power where it talks about Sprites being unable to Forge Credentials or Matrix Stealth.

Option 1) A Sprite without Datamasking simply cannot take the Forge Credentials OR Matrix Stealth actions.

Option 2) A Sprite without Datamasking cannot Forge Credentials, but it CAN Matrix Stealth (though it might have to Default, only 4 Sprite types actually have Hacking). The point of Datamasking is that a Datamasked Sprite can choose to be plainly visible to others as something other than itself (and you still beat the trick with Matrix Stealth because we don't need special rules for just 1 power). And this is similar to but not the same as having done a Forge Credentials action.

I'm partial to Option 2.

Well, going off the Datamasking power:

The Sprite can appear to be any kind of Icon it chooses. This includes background
iconography, allowing the sprite to become effectively invisible. Only those who get a
number of hits on a Matrix Perception test equal to the hits it gets on a Response + Intuition
test can perceive it for what it is – or at all if it doesn't want to be seen. Without Data
Masking, a sprite cannot Spoof itself (not having an Access ID), and this ability substitutes
for the Spoof action.

and the fact that for all persons involved a sprite looks the same, I'd say that Option 1 fits closer. Sprites by their nature have a look that is not the same as the matrix background. Because they can't change their appearance they can't try to appear like something else.
A sprite without the Datamasking power is always visible.

---

Merging Sprites into a Network:

The thing here is that there's literally a Merge power, which only Machine Sprites get (EDIT: also Industry, and Crack optionally, my bad):

Normally speaking, a sprite is not "in" a device, but a Sprite with the Merge power can do so. The sprite simply finds an orphan device and joins with it. The device behaves as if the sprite were networked with it. The sprite then can only interact with the Matrix through the device's own wireless or wired capabilities, but so long as the sprite is merged with a device it is not affected by Background as a sprite normally would be. In this way a sprite can crawl into a drone and drive off into a dead zone without winking out of existence.

Option 1) So, if any Sprite can be merged into any Network at any time as if they're simple Devices, then is the point of the power simply to make them protected against Background they might suffer from while subsumed into a Network?

Option 2) Or is the power saying that any Sprite without the power (including all Non-Machine Sprites) must be kept as its own Network at all times.

Again, I'm partial to Option 2 here as well.

I'd probably agree with Kaelik here and say that they act like IC (and thus can join Networks).

---

Yeah, it doesn't make an ounce of sense that any Sprite has Backdoor.

Aside from what the others said, keep in mind that they can use it to connect others to a device.

• Sprite uses Backdoor on Device, opening a true connection.
• Person A connects to the Sprite (if the sprite is willing this should just happen).
• Person A is connected to Sprite who is connected to Device.
• This means that Person A can close the distance to the Device and be connected to it without rolling anything.

---

So should there be text to say that a drone can't Jump Into Drone without Merge, or that they can but that they're still affected by Background while doing so if they don't have Merge?

The second. Without it the sprite floats around in the matrix but can affect it as if it was connected. With it the sprite is safely inside the device, which means no Weirdness but also no Background Counts to worry about.

[Trill]

And now a question of my own:
With a drone there are multiple ways of gathering data:

• View it as normal sight: INT+Perception
• View it in a window: INT+Perception-2
• Have the device process that data and give you the abstract: INT+EWAR+Sensors

If you are jumped in, can you still use the third method or do you have to view it yourself? I'd tend towards the second, but the text in the "Jump Into Device" section:

While jumped in, a character has 3 IP like they were in VR, but they make
Physical Perception tests using the sensors of the device they are jumped into.

makes me think that the first is true

[Lokathor]

Alright, the version of EotM that I'm maintaining now has explicit supporting text in the Hacking skill entry about Sprites needing the Datamasking to Forge Credentials or Matrix Stealth in any way.

Drone Perceptions: This one is a tough call. It makes sense that you can just keep tracking things via your Sensors even once you're Jumped In, but perhaps the fact that you go from a 3 stat pool to a 2 stat pool once you Jump In is supposed to be a balancing factor?

I'd probably just let players keep going by the abstracts for overall battlefield knowledge, even when Jumped In, but then require that anything with fine details involved (like spotting what key combo a guard typed in, or overhearing a conversation) is a Perception check.

[Lokathor]

So can you do a Jump In to your drone if it's floating on its own, or does it have to be inside your Network first?

If a drone doesn't have to be in your Network, it'll get itself Crashed to bits in like 2 passes by anyone who's at all competent. Which is maybe okay?

Or can IC roll defense tests? But I sure don't think that IC should be rolling defense tests for the network it's running on because IC rating goes above 6 pretty easily so that would just be a new form of the "Spirits and Sprites go out of the mortal range at high Force" problem.

Or maybe drones have a super special awesome Matrix Defense Autosoft that lets them roll defense tests and it works for drones to have such a thing but not commlinks because they've got extra hardware in their dog brain that lets the autosoft run.

I'm just not too clear on what the drone situation should be, because they're supposed to be these armed and armored things that corps are using as a cheaper option compared to equivalent guard/soldier, but if they're always hackable inside of a round when they're alone then that's a crazy bad drawback. And if they're always kept in a network but that network has like 3+ drones then you crash that one rigger at the middle and you get 4+ kills for your trouble.

So maybe there's always 1 rigger per drone, and drones just show up in super low numbers all the time. Which is okay I guess if that's what folks think should be happening.

[Trill]

I'm pretty sure you have to be connected to it/it has to be in your network. Just like all other devices you want it in because otherwise anyone could misuse them.
A drone not in a network is like a mildly capable child. Sure it can do stuff for you. But do you really want to let it out of your sight?

And if they're always kept in a network but that network has like 3+ drones then you crash that one rigger at the middle and you get 4+ kills for your trouble.

Sure thing. If you take out the rigger, then all those drones are useless. And through one of those drones you can reach the rest. But that's basically it. Cheap corps get themselves one rigger who overlooks multiple drones because the far bigger danger they'll face isn't Hackers, but Gangers. Bigger ones or those more worried about matrix attacks get multiple riggers so that if one of them is taken out most drones will keep on being safe

Maybe make it so that Drones have their own Matrix condition monitor, so that crashing one drone won't crash the whole network. But going through the drones and to the Rigger should be a valid approach.
If you are worried that drones not in networks are too weak, maybe make it so they defend with Pilot or Pilotx2

[Lokathor]

A drone has its own icon condition track if and only if it's a lone device.

Devices inside a Network never have their own track, they all take damage equally when the Network does, and they're all crashed or not if the Network as a whole is crashed or not.

That part I'm very sure of.

But yeah, giving them some extra defense might be okay. Pilot is technically uncapped, but i think it's usually just 1-6, so that might be okayish.

1 rigger per Drone also is mostly fine i guess.

[Trill]

What I meant was that you make it that Devices with Pilot ratings have their own Matrix CM. Filling that CM won't crash the entire network and crashing the network won't crash the drone. This would prevent the situation that one crashed drone = Whole network is crashed, while hopefully not adding too many additional problems

EDIT: And some clarification from Frank:

Frank, when you made EotM did you intend for each Rigger to only have one drone? Because by the rules crashing any drone crashes every drone if all are in your network.

I intended hackers to be able to fog entire groups of drones, yeah. The SR5 alternative where hackers take actions to blank drones individually and then get shot to pieces by the other five doesn't seem like a great plan.

So it is intended that Riggers have multiple Drones in their networks and that they go down at once.

[Lokathor]

Alright, if that was the intent.

The problem is that all sorts of things could have a pilot rating added to them to make them crash individually. That's why you need to stick to the hard rule that one network is one icon damage track.

[Kaelik]

Alright, if that was the intent.

The problem is that all sorts of things could have a pilot rating added to them to make them crash individually. That's why you need to stick to the hard rule that one network is one icon damage track.

I mean... if your solution is to make drones resist like occupied networks when not occupied, and then having no one actually keep more than one drone in network, but add as many new networks as there are drones, then you sort of created the exact same problem, of more icons to crash, you just have to figure out and value even more stats for those networks.

[Zaranthan]

One rigger per drone kinda shits on the point of riggers (one person, lots of guns). In corporate terms, riggers are skilled labor and earn a lot more than security guards, so you've either got a bunch of mook riggers with shitty skills or you've got a really expensive security force and need to justify it.

[Trill]

Thing is that no matter how many drones, crashing your system has the same difficulty, but more drones gives more people who see your network and can crash it.

For Frank that seems to be as intended, but I want to have the situation that the rigger loses one drone due to it being crashed, says "Fuck, they know we're here" and pulls the other drones closer/deactivates some to reduce the attack surface.
Instead we get that the rigger loses all drones at once, plus his commlink and can do nothing for a few combat turns, because both he and his drones are out.

Which is why I suggested the separate CMs. Crashing one drone won't bring the whole network down, but hacking one still allows you to be directly connected to the rigger and attack them.
Attackers thus have to ask if they just crash one drone (which is easier and prevents it from firing on your mates but severs the connection) or use it as a relay point while still allowing it to shoot you.

I wanted to object to Lokathor about adding a Pilot rating, by using this segment

Rigger Adaptation
A device which has a pilot rating can have a new pilot software installed that makes it more
awesome for the cost of the better software. A device that does not have a pilot in the first
place has to be adapted to remote operations. A Rigger Adaptation gives a device a Pilot of
1, and costs 500¥ per size of the new drone

(Emphasis mine)
But I realized that "new drone" could be read as "the device that will soon be a drone" instead of "The new version of that drone"

---

The basic question I'd have to ask is thus: Would allowing Drones and Vehicles with a starting Pilot (i.e. those that started with one and not those that later acquired one) to have their own CM break the game?