The Ends v4.01

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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele »

Right, i forgot about that and it makes sense of course with the whole pure brainhacking in there x.x
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Post by Trill »

Can you use cloak on yourself?
Because for some people the LOG+EWAR test has more dice than the INT+Hacking test
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Post by virgil »

Yes.
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Post by virgil »

Can you maintain a connection when you stop being in handshake range?
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Post by Lokathor »

Gonna have to say "No" on that one.

Part of the problem with distance hacking is that they can quickly cut the hard line and hide behind a Faraday Cage if there is an intrusion.
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Post by Trill »

I think it was previously established that you can keep it up as long as you both have matrix connection
Problem is that we don't exactly have defined when you are connected to the matrix or not.
Mord, on Cosmic Horror wrote:Today if I say to the man on the street, "Did you know that the world you live in is a fragile veneer of normality over an uncaring universe, that we could all die at any moment at the whim of beings unknown to us for reasons having nothing to do with ourselves, and that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned, nothing anyone ever did with their life has ever mattered?" his response, if any, will be "Yes, of course; now if you'll excuse me, I need to retweet Sonic the Hedgehog." What do you even do with that?
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Post by Lokathor »

Ah, right. That's, in a sense, the "middle" scenario compared to what I was talking about.

[*]Handshake: Fine, this is where Connections are established

[*]Move out to Matrix: Connection stays, supported beyond the normal establishment range by the "Connection protocol" or whatever you care to call it.

[*]Jammed / Faraday'd so that you're not even within the same Matrix topology as each other: Connection is forced to die because of physical limitations.
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Post by Trill »

Yes, problem is what we define as "not even within the same Matrix topology as each other"
  • Is it only when either of you has Signal of 0?
  • Is it when you are not in reach of any matrix connected object? (this would mean that most spaces are always matrix connected since you probably have some matrix capable object within 3 m)
  • Is it when you are not in Handshake range of a major cell tower? (In which case we'd need to know how dense they are, which adds a lot of book keeping
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Post by Lokathor »

I'm referring specifically to faraday cages and jammers, since those are what protect the major installations that runners are going to want to infiltrate.

Just to put some implied lore into one place, and noting that this is also partly just kinda made up by me on the spot: I think that we might assume that a "Matrix Retransmitter" is a specialized device that's commonly placed all around metroplexes for public commerce reasons. Not just any device will keep you connected into the Matrix, these are specifically designed to blindly re-transmit traffic to keep it moving along and keep commerce going. It's all paid for by lifestyle or whatever so players don't have to track it. All that you track is "how good is the matrix signal out here?" The same way that you'd potentially track how good the cell phone signal is in a modern game. In some areas the retransmission network might be even more densely packed than 100m per node (which allows a Signal 0 device to still be online, just not with high density effect). In most areas it'll be a few hundred meters per node, so that Signal 1 devices can stay connected at all, Standard Commlinks can stay high density, and walking around probably doesn't interrupt your signal much. So you're "off matrix" if you can't reach the nearest matrix transmitter.

However, there's the open global matrix and there's also local sub-sections of the matrix that are kept highly regulated in what they can move in and out to the global matrix, even if what you can move within the local matrix is actually still almost entirely unregulated. This separation is performed physically (Faraday Cage, Wifi Paint, Jamming, Burred underground, etc), and the global-local link (if any) is maintained by bridge devices which are likely to be highly regulated in software (Assume the link itself is System/Firewall 8+, IC similar, probably at least one defensive hacker on duty at all times with their own stats as well), and might even be limited in hardware for security purposes (eg: Zurich Orbital) so that you still can't hack through it even if you are good enough to take control of one side of the link. If you're inside a strong jamming field it's like you're locked into your own personal local matrix, but there's generally no link back out (unless you can find a hard line).
Last edited by Lokathor on Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Trill »

With LOS programs, do you actually need to see them?
If no, does that mean that you can target anything towards which you have a free line?
And if yes to that question, where does that line originate? Your brain? Your Commlink?
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Post by Lokathor »

If you're trying to be precise down to the inch, I'd say that LOS is drawn from your actual eyes, or other visual sensors hooked up to a signal broadcast system, toward the target. Your commlink uses the visual data to assess whatever it needs to assess and target the correct point.

Normally though the game isn't that precise about things, so just apply a cover/visibility modifier to the program's roll if LOS is in question.
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Post by Trill »

Mostly asking because we already had a similar discussion, based on whether or not you could use LOS programs if you are in VR
Because technically you can't see (both because for you sense data is replaced and for your commlink because your lids are most likely closed) so you shouldn't be able to use LOS programs (which seems like a nice balance: AR you are slower but can use precise location data, while VR is faster but doesn't allow precise effects) to which you said
Lokathor wrote:You still have LOS for the purposes of activating programs. Even though you can't see via visual light, it's the clear path from you to the target device that's letting your commlink perform the high density signal scans required to pinpoint the proper internal chips and neurons to reconfigure what you want into the target.
which I read as only needing a clear path to the target, even if you can't see them. Which would mean that as long as you can trace a clear line to the enemy you can run LOS programs against them.

Thus I'm asking, if you don't need to actually see them, from where is the line drawn?
And if you need to see them, does that mean that you can't run e.g. Blackhammer in VR unless you are connected to them?
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Post by Lokathor »

Oh my, you're right, that's an inconsistency I've walked myself into. My players never used VR much. I suppose I must take back the part about the eyes.

Let me start again then:

You get basic Matrix Perception against everything within your Signal range. What this means is that you can detect the presence or absence of various Icons, as well as a sense of their range category out from your position. Your commlink is sending out signals, seeing how they get warped and affected as they bounce off things and come back, that sort of stuff. You always want more Signal range to be able to see farther with Matrix Perception. Of course, in many places there's so many Icons that a few more showing up or disappearing doesn't actively register in someone's attention (this is part of what a Matrix Perception check represents) and an Icon can also spoof itself as being something else (the other major part of what Matrix Perception represents).

If you have Signal Range to a Network, and you also have LOS to them (ignoring for the moment that we haven't quite defined LOS) then you can associate an Icon to a Network's physical presence. It's the difference between hearing footsteps in the other room and seeing a man with a red jacket and a hat. Note that even if you have Signal LOS on a Network and you can pinpoint its physical location, that doesn't tell you too much physically about your target without additional sensors (this is where your eyes would come in). Even with knowledge of a Network's precise location, that Network can still spoof (particularly if Matrix Vision is somehow all you have), so determining information about it (active programs and their ratings, and so on) is still the domain of Matrix Perception checks.

I'd define LOS, for purposes of the above, as being drawn from the Commlink or any of it's directional retransmitters. If it's an Internal Commlink, use the owner's skull as the assumed location of the transmitter. Either way, the owner's body itself never counts as blocking their own LOS. If your Commlink is on (for example) your left hip, then you still get LOS to people standing on your right. Compensating for that particular bit of potential interference is a well solved problem, and calibrated as part of the Network's slow buildup when it's first established.

So if you're in VR and you're in a chair or on the ground or whatever, you can still draw LOS to people that walk up to your body.
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Post by Trill »

Lokathor wrote:Oh my, you're right, that's an inconsistency I've walked myself into. My players never used VR much. I suppose I must take back the part about the eyes.
Yeah, this is IIRC the second time. But I see this as a good thing. If we show the contradiction then we have found some part that is undefined and which can then be fixed before putting it in a game. And better to fix it now than to have to make a shoddy, on-the-fly ruling during the game, that is most likely not very well thought out.
Lokathor wrote:I'd define LOS, for purposes of the above, as being drawn from the Commlink or any of it's directional retransmitters. If it's an Internal Commlink, use the owner's skull as the assumed location of the transmitter. Either way, the owner's body itself never counts as blocking their own LOS. If your Commlink is on (for example) your left hip, then you still get LOS to people standing on your right. Compensating for that particular bit of potential interference is a well solved problem, and calibrated as part of the Network's slow buildup when it's first established.
That is an acceptable solution, which prevents too much bookkeeping (what side did you land on?) and still gives them a modicum of defensive capabilities aside of forcing them to abort the matrix stuff, switch to AR and flee
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Post by Trill »

Is Test Pattern a one time thing or can you manipulate it afterwards?
Because the Range is S (LOS) and CA

Can you choose who it affects and who it doesn't?
Can you use it to communicate with people while VR Projecting? I.E. projecting a picture of you through which you talk to people

Also: What's the final verdict on stuff like Brain Scan and RAS Override affecting TMs? Because for RAS Override at least it says in the fluff
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Post by Lokathor »

Test Pattern: This should probably be a Sustained duration effect, like an Illusion spell. In fact, I'd use exactly the rules for illusion spells with this one.

You could use it to talk to someone while projecting, but that's foolish because you can also just message their Commlink without taking Fading as a Matrix Free Action.

RAS Override, etc: More than simple immunity to the RAS effect, my group runs it that a Technomancer isn't a B type target at all. Only programs that work against D type targets work on them. You can't use Brain Scan, but you can try Reveal Contents.
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Post by Trill »

Can you hold stuff like video conferences through messages?
Mord, on Cosmic Horror wrote:Today if I say to the man on the street, "Did you know that the world you live in is a fragile veneer of normality over an uncaring universe, that we could all die at any moment at the whim of beings unknown to us for reasons having nothing to do with ourselves, and that as far as the rest of the universe is concerned, nothing anyone ever did with their life has ever mattered?" his response, if any, will be "Yes, of course; now if you'll excuse me, I need to retweet Sonic the Hedgehog." What do you even do with that?
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Post by Lokathor »

Yeah, pretty much. Things you can do with broadband today are all available with low-density signal. The crappy "low-density" signal of the 2070s is still generally "1080p and probably no buffering", unless you're in the remotest of locations on the flimsiest of technology, when you might actually be bumped down to a scratchy sat phone or something.

A "teamspeak" that lets you radiopathically message people can be assumed to be quite common. It's like with Ghost In The Shell (1:23, 2:24). Notice how, in this example scene, the Major is "speaking" without lip movement. They've all got various levels of cyberization, and the team can communicate purely brain to signal.

Radiopathically generating basic audio and textual signals without literally pulling out your commlink and holding it up to your head is "free". Generating them is part of what you commlink's background programs can do. These are often customized enough to the user to tell who is who even without any attached metadata (though there also is that of course). As long as they have at least 4 dice for Logic + Computer (Data Manipulation) and they're using their own OS you can assume it uses an approximation of their real voice and such, or any other single particular voice, many folks want their identity kept private of course and so they use a "spoof" voice, treat at Veracity 1. If the person doesn't have the required dice or they're using a burner then they can still have a default synth voice, but it counts as Veracity 0. If you want higher quality signals you can of course use the Fabrication program.
Last edited by Lokathor on Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Trill »

Lokathor wrote:A "teamspeak" that lets you radiopathically message people can be assumed to be quite common. It's like with Ghost In The Shell (1:23, 2:24). Notice how, in this example scene, the Major is "speaking" without lip movement. They've all got various levels of cyberization, and the team can communicate purely brain to signal.
In the case of the Major isn't that because she has basically an implanted Commlink (more accurately an CCU)? IIRC Togusa still communicates through telephone/external trode net.
Radiopathically generating basic audio and textual signals without literally pulling out your commlink and holding it up to your head is "free".

I was pretty sure you still needed a subvocal microphone
As long as they have at least 4 dice for Logic + Computer (Data Manipulation) and they're using their own OS you can assume it uses an approximation of their real voice and such
What if you just want to transmit your normal voice in digitized form?
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Post by Zaranthan »

Trill wrote:What if you just want to transmit your normal voice in digitized form?
You mean an audio recording via standard microphone that you talk into? I think there's a joke in here about milennials and text messaging.
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Post by Stahlseele »

And if you want to transmit your voice without speaking:
SR3 had something called a Transducer that allowed that.
I imagine that to be built into internal comlink and simlink.
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Post by Lokathor »

Trill wrote:In the case of the Major isn't that because she has basically an implanted Commlink (more accurately an CCU)? IIRC Togusa still communicates through telephone/external trode net.
Well, keeping in mind that we're talking GitS for a moment and not EotM: Everyone on the GitS team at least has a cyber brain, complete with the ability to jack in. Togusa is the most human, but he's still got a cyber brain. It's just that everyone else has a lot more than that. If people use a real phone in place of a brain signal that's either for lack of local wifi and needing to go long distance, or because a phone number goes to a phone and not to a specific person, which might be a useful property of its own (eg: when calling a business any employee can pick up the phone). Or simply because the characters/writers wanted to use a phone instead of radiopathy in that scene (it is often the case that fiction writers will not remember every special capability of every character in every scene, particularly the minor abilities).
I was pretty sure you still needed a subvocal microphone
I don't personally view the subvocal mic as being a desirable piece of tactical gear to have exist and be necessary in the 2070s. Certainly not enough to eliminate radiopathy, which is like the coolest fucking thing ever. Particularly since EotM already has a tagline in one of the sections about radiopathically sending messages to people, and I'm not just making it up myself here. However, for those who want to have subvocal mics be justified in the 2070s, let us add this lore:

The subvocal mic is (in a sense) the audio version of a trode net. You subvocalise and it records your voice, then immediately transmits it with EUE (either wirelessly or via skinlink) to your device of choice. It gives you a good deal of communications privacy compared to a normal headset mic where you have to speak at normal volumes. It also effectively eliminates any background noise in your transmission, which is nice as well (unless the background noise is so loud that it's strongly vibrating your throat itself, such as extremely intense music, or maybe an explosion). Why would you want a subvocal mic over pure radiopathic transmissions? Well, the subvocal mic transmits using your actual voice but it can be hooked into any device at any time with only 1 round of setup instead of hours of setup. So if you're always just on burner commlinks you might want a subvocal mic. The subvocal mic can also EUE connect to your commlink or other device with either Signal or Skinlink, so it's potentially jamming resistant, which is a big deal if you don't have a wired DNI. The default one in the book is Signal 1, Skinlink is available at the same price but no wireless ability at all, higher Signal is available as simply the price of the desired Signal rating in the EotM equipment section.

Of course, let's take a moment to note that, if you don't have a wired DNI, jamming of just about any level fucks you almost to death on the spot. Recall that the Jamming Level reduces the Signal rating of all devices in the jamming field by that much, which includes your own brain (Signal 0).
[*]With 1 point of Jamming you'd need a Receiver Module somewhere on your body to not get your brain dumped from its own network for lack of ability to stay connected to your Commlink (or have a Receiver-less Commlink within 10cm of your brain, maybe inside a funky helmet). Even though your Commlink could probably still send into your brain at this point, it'd be unable to pick up your brain wirelessly without the Receiver's support or the extremely close proximity. Note also that Trodes and Nanopaste Trodes are totally useless already, so your Commlink has to switch over to itself as being the thing transmitting in braintext, with all the badness that implies.
[*]With 2 points of Jamming you'd absolutely need the Receiver Module and you'd also need it to be strapped directly to your head to maintain a link.
[*]Jamming 3 and above effectively destroys all wireless DNI capability for simple lack of your brain to get a signal far enough for your electronics to ever pick it up.

So wire your Commlink into your head and don't be a grease stain. And put Skinlink on everything else, it doesn't even count as paranoia really.
What if you just want to transmit your normal voice in digitized form?
If you want to transmit your own voice but you don't have your own software setup available you just use a microphone of some sort. Could be subvocal, or it could just be a walkie talkie, or headset, or whatever. They're all effective, just varying degrees of being less cool.
Last edited by Lokathor on Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Trill »

What can you do to reduce Jamming?
The ones I know of are:
  • ECCM - Reduces effective Background by net hits on a LOG/RES + EWAR (½ Background) test, only works on yourself and people you are connected to (though that may be hard to be when you are jammed)
    Flame or Industry Sprite - when given the Clarity Power they reduce Backgrounds by half the sprite's rating. Requires you to be a TM with them available and compiled (which is going to suck if you don't have them in your stream or if you don't have them compiled yet)
    Destroying the Jammer - Shoot it, burn it, Powerbolt it or any other method or destroying the device
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Post by Zaranthan »

I think you've got the long of it. Jamming is powerful stuff, but it's indiscriminate. Yeah, you've stopped the spider from RAS Overriding your mage or Taxmanning your Face, but you've also shut down your team's smartguns, and possibly your tacnet as well. It's the flashbang of matrix attacks.
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Post by Trill »

Is a signal only reduced if the source is jammed or also if the path goes through a jammed area?
Basically: if I'm not jammed, target a object within my Signal range and go through jammed space, does it have any effect?
If I want to protect myself from S attacks, is it enough that the space around me is jammed or do I need to ensure that my attacker is jammed as well?

Because that might be useful: "Well, we can't use anything, but they can't affect us either. We can reshuffle and make a new plan."

Edit: ECCM has a threshold of half the Background. Round up or down?
Last edited by Trill on Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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