What are your thoughts on d20 Modern?

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Psychic Robot
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What are your thoughts on d20 Modern?

Post by Psychic Robot »

Overall, I feel that it is a solid-but-flawed game system that can be adapted for a number of genres. (This, of course, is a very broad, very bland statement.) What I like most about it is that it allows for characters who aren't combat machines to be viable. What I really dislike about it is how...weak the weapons are. While I understand that they were trying to combine survivability with a little bit of realism, I wish they had gone with the "more lethal" route.

So, what do you think?
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Post by K »

4e is the first ten DnD levels spread over thirty levels, and then all the non-combat stuff taken out.

D20 Modern is first ten DnD levels spread over twenty levels, with most of the non-combat stuff taken out.

Overall, I'd rather play Rifts and at least have a good time.
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Post by Tydanosaurus »

Where do you get that the non-combat stuff is taken out?

I've had some very fun adventures w/ D20 modern, but I think it isn't workable as a system. It has a weird mix of too lethal and not lethal enough combat, so that the system can be gamed too easily. Also, the class system is a disaster.
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Post by JonSetanta »

Good for guns and mech, bad for supernatural.

You can do anything if you are rich enough. Anything.

Also, social counts for even more since it's the "technological age" filled with communication and all of its perils.
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Post by Talisman »

Characters appear to be surprisingly weak...as in, "three 5th-level PCs fleeing a gang of seven 2nd-level NPCs" weak.

Damage is odd...without 3.x's magic bonuses and buffing spells, it increases much more slowly. Hit points, OTOH, increase only slightly more slowly.

It has all of 3.x's weaknesses (sans magic...although you can include that, too).
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Post by Psychic Robot »

It has all of 3.x's weaknesses (sans magic...although you can include that, too).
How do you mean?
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Post by Leress »

Psychic Robot wrote:
It has all of 3.x's weaknesses (sans magic...although you can include that, too).
How do you mean?
Urban Arcana

Also SFX
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Post by Prak »

the classes suck, but I like the game, just because it's d20 I guess. The idea for the classes, one for each ability score, is okay, but the talents need work.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Has everyone suddenly forgotten the nine million "D20 Modern, what's up with that shit?" threads all of a sudden. Because some people are saying some rather strange things if they are talking about the game they seem to be saying they are talking about...
can be adapted for a number of genres
Like? Er? What?

It works nicely with the new Macho Women with guns, I'll give it that, Macho Women is like the punchline to the d20 modern system that you didn't realise it was setting up for until you see it.
What I like most about it is that it allows for characters who aren't combat machines to be viable.
As long as they are all Fast. Because though there are potentially reasons to not be a Fast hero they are so incredibly limited and edge case that they are frankly ridiculous.
What I really dislike about it is how...weak the weapons are.
Actually, didn't the weapons do more damage? And nasty criticals? And am I mixing up an optional rule or wasn't massive damage threshold like WAY low?
Where do you get that the non-combat stuff is taken out?
He is probably noting the removal of most utility spells and abilities. Basically the non combat stuff that remained was skills and skills are pretty so so as far as functionality goes.
Also, the class system is a disaster.
Well at least someone remembers actually playing it then...
Good for guns and mech, bad for supernatural.

You can do anything if you are rich enough. Anything.

Also, social counts for even more since it's the "technological age" filled with communication and all of its perils.
OK basically nothing other than the negligible mention of the supernatural really makes ANY sense there at all. And MECH? MECH? were you on LSD when you read d20 future?
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Post by Koumei »

I like the art - the illithid mafioso with bugbear gangsters is just awesome.

That's about all I can really say for it, though. "I like the art."
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Post by Prak »

D20 Mecha. Also, what I've seen of d20 future was ok.
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Post by Prak »

Koumei wrote:I like the art - the illithid mafioso with bugbear gangsters is just awesome.

That's about all I can really say for it, though. "I like the art."
The illithid preacher in the core book is cool too.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Absentminded_Wizard »

There's some optional material on including magic in a couple of the alternate "campaign models" in the back of the book.

There's also the Urban Arcana book Leress mentioned, which fleshes out the campaign model of the same name with more spells, advanced classes, monsters, and stuff.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

PhoneLobster wrote:Has everyone suddenly forgotten the nine million "D20 Modern, what's up with that shit?" threads all of a sudden. Because some people are saying some rather strange things if they are talking about the game they seem to be saying they are talking about...
Link, if you would be so kind.
can be adapted for a number of genres
Like? Er? What?

It works nicely with the new Macho Women with guns, I'll give it that, Macho Women is like the punchline to the d20 modern system that you didn't realise it was setting up for until you see it.
Works for stealth/spy campaigns, Cthulhu campaigns, that sort of thing, I meant--D&D doesn't work nearly as well for those.
What I like most about it is that it allows for characters who aren't combat machines to be viable.
As long as they are all Fast. Because though there are potentially reasons to not be a Fast hero they are so incredibly limited and edge case that they are frankly ridiculous.
Yes, Fast heroes are overpowered.
What I really dislike about it is how...weak the weapons are.
Actually, didn't the weapons do more damage? And nasty criticals? And am I mixing up an optional rule or wasn't massive damage threshold like WAY low?
All guns did like 2d6-ish damage. Massive damage threshold was low, but not super low, although it's been awhile since I've played.
Where do you get that the non-combat stuff is taken out?
He is probably noting the removal of most utility spells and abilities. Basically the non combat stuff that remained was skills and skills are pretty so so as far as functionality goes.
Ah. I think that the Cha/Int/Dedicated heroes all have decent non-combat talents. Again, been awhile since I've played...
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Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
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Post by JonSetanta »

PhoneLobster wrote: OK basically nothing other than the negligible mention of the supernatural really makes ANY sense there at all. And MECH? MECH? were you on LSD when you read d20 future?
Aw shit ma bad maaan, dun got deh d20s mixed.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

dun got deh d20s mixed
No, d20 future IS d20 modern, you'd just have to be on LSD to think the mech rules are well, even worth calling rules really...
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Post by Hey_I_Can_Chan »

Fuck d20 Modern. It's stupid to even heft that beast when Spycraft 2.0 is clamoring for your attention, steadily bcoming the go-to place for post-1850 d20 role-playing.

Hell, you can even pay, like, $5 for a PDF that converts the d20 Modern base classes into playable ones using the Spycraft 2.0 rules.

Fuck d20 Modern. Every damn day.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

It's stupid to even heft that beast when Spycraft 2.0 is clamoring for your attention, steadily bcoming the go-to place for post-1850 d20 role-playing.
Which is just one of MANY reasons why I wonder even about the absurd "good for genre" claims of modern action espionage.

And heck I know from personal experience that its total bullshit for cthulhu.

Edit: And since I seem to be addressing Phsychic robot anyway,
Link, if you would be so kind.
I really don't feel like it right now, but there's bound to be one from the captain bleach crusade within several pages of back threads and likely a link to others in there.
Yes, Fast heroes are overpowered.
Actually they were still objectively crap. Compared to challenges, npcs and monsters and junk. Somewhere about or below the level of a core d20 monk for abilities and certainly below that for fun and interest value.

It's just compared to the other classes that couldn't do combat OR non combat or, well, anything much that they were overpowered or exciting.

The real kicker though was that you could use the Fast class to represent things far more diverse than a techy, a librarian, a gunslinger, or a sumo wrestler, and trying to represent those same archetypes with any other class netted you little other than pure mechanical punishment.
All guns did like 2d6-ish damage. Massive damage threshold was low, but not super low, although it's been awhile since I've played.
I'm pretty sure you could net 2d10 without much effort and weren't all the criticals like x3 or x4? AND you could net numerous extra attack rolls on automatic weapons with very little effort.

At that rate you pull out a group of minor gun mooks and SOMEONE will be making massive damage saves.

And did you ever see the d20modern armoury? Anti material rifles for everyone, hohohoho, merry christma... oh you're all DEAD.
I think that the Cha/Int/Dedicated heroes all have decent non-combat talents.
No, no they didn't. They had NOTHING worth the loss of like 2 points in defence that you got just for not being Fast. AND they had an inordinate dependency on action points to perform entirely trivial special actions that was just, absurd.

I mean it was SO bad that taking "linguist" or whatever the "I get partial skill with all languages kinda sorta" was pretty damn close to a no brainer if you were in the dead end "non combat" class that granted it.

Considering you could instead be Fast and get Evasion in a game where every second thing was potentially a reflex save and explosives could just plain fucking massive damage kill you, maybe even on a successful reflex save...
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Post by JonSetanta »

Dedicated Hero: Insightful talents are awesome. Action point bonus and huge Perception always rock.

I agree that Fast Hero trumps the others, at least physically. The setting showcases the development of warfare in favor of the quick and hard to hit, thanks to bullets and explosions.
With Strong or Tough, you'll suck with the abilities provided both offensively and defensively; their own talent trees could have had all related bonuses double and probably still not compare to the ability of Not Getting Hit.

Spike of Cowboy Bebop is a great example of how a Fast character excels in a setting with guns, vehicles, and martial arts.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

Ah, yes, the dependence on action points. GRAGH.
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Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
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Post by Prak »

here, let's make the discussion evolve beyond AFAIK, IIRC and just plain, "I think".

D20 Modern HTML SRD
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Lets not, I rather prefer not to browse through a system that is dead to me.
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Post by RandomCasualty2 »

I have really not heard a single good thing about d20 modern. From Anyone.

It basically seems to be one of the worst of the d20 variants. Fast hero is by far the best. The spell system is a slow progression rip off of D&D, which makes no fucking sense if you ask me.

This is a game where flight means less than D&D, yet you get it at a later level.

Really, it's total crap.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

Erm...what doesn't make sense about the spell system?
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Post by RandomCasualty2 »

Psychic Robot wrote:Erm...what doesn't make sense about the spell system?
The fact that the progression is delayed, yet the abilities just aren't as good in a modern setting. There was really no care taken to balance the spells for another setting at all. It was just the D&D system copy/pasted, only because you need a PrC to cast stuff, it meant that your spell progression was way delayed, like making wizard a PrC. So your 3rd level spells were really like 5th level spells, only most weren't nearly as useful.

Something like flight is awesome when everyone has melee weapons. When everyone is armed with guns, not so much.

Similarly, fireball isn't worth a ton of levels when you can just toss grenades.
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