Pathfinder: the Lowdown

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:32 am

What does Vital Strike do?

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:46 am

Aktariel wrote:What does Vital Strike do?

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together, but do not multiply damage bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), or precision-based damage (such as sneak attack). This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit (although other damage bonuses are multiplied normally).

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:53 am

So, you only multiply base weapon dice and flat bonus damage (excluding strength)? That's pretty much worthless.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:24 am

There's some poor wording (big surprise), but the devs clarified that you don't even multiply flat bonus damage. The only thing you multiply is base weapon damage, and you can only apply it on the standard action 'Attack', so you don't get the bonus if you charge or try to combine it the various special attacks that also cost a standard action rather than modify a standard action. This means it doesn't stack w/cleave, scorpion style, deadly stroke, shot on the run (is a full-round action now).

Though the way it's worded, you might be able to hold the charge for some spells, and then use it to have an especially potent vampiric touch opener.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:39 am

So, you only multiply base weapon dice and flat bonus damage (excluding strength)? That's pretty much worthless.

It's quite a bit worse, actually--you don't multiply any flat bonus damage. The wording on the feat is awful, but according to Bulmahn, you only multiply the base weapon damage, which is an incredibly "meh" ability and not worth a feat in most cases. (You also can't use it on a charge, despite the fighter preview saying that you can.) For the T-rex in question, he would be able to do 12d6 + 22 damage on a hit, which is significantly better than his normal bite attack, especially given that he only needs a standard action to attack anyhow.

The main purpose for the Vital Strike feats is to abuse size increases for rollings lot of dice. Greater mighty whallop is a good starting point.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:48 pm

One thing I'm noticing out of the Bestiary is that natural weapons are very likely to be all or mostly primary attacks; rather than 3.5's usual standard of one attack at primary, and all others being secondary.

Example, the girallon's four claws and bite are all primary natural attacks, as is the osyluth's.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:55 pm

virgileso wrote:One thing I'm noticing out of the Bestiary is that natural weapons are very likely to be all or mostly primary attacks; rather than 3.5's usual standard of one attack at primary, and all others being secondary.

Example, the girallon's four claws and bite are all primary natural attacks, as is the osyluth's.

In other words, they're even better melees than the melees, except more so?

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:43 pm

So they stealth-nerfed melees by boosting the monsters?

...this reminds me of something else... Fair and Balanced.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:45 pm

RobbyPants wrote:So they stealth-nerfed melees by boosting the monsters?

...this reminds me of something else... Fair and Balanced.

They did random monkeying with monster stats (and monster CRs), so it's impossible to say if monsters as a whole are better or worse

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:02 pm

It does seem like random sets of monsters, dragons especially, have one or two new abilities appended to their stat blocks. I haven't seen anything significant yet, mind you.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:21 pm

virgileso wrote:It does seem like random sets of monsters, dragons especially, have one or two new abilities appended to their stat blocks. I haven't seen anything significant yet, mind you.

From their Preview (which came out a while ago), they significantly nerfed dire bats and dire wolves, for instance.

imperialspectre · Post by **imperialspectre** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:48 pm

They generally nerfed spellcasting outsiders by making it so that caster levels weren't higher than HD anymore. Planetars might even be vaguely close to CR 16 now.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:28 pm

imperialspectre wrote:They generally nerfed spellcasting outsiders by making it so that caster levels weren't higher than HD anymore. Planetars might even be vaguely close to CR 16 now.

So it can cast... Implosion, and Summon Monster 9. That's nice and all, but it's not as if it wouldn't have save or dies if its CL was 16 instead of 17. Why does this matter again?

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:33 pm

Roy wrote:
imperialspectre wrote:They generally nerfed spellcasting outsiders by making it so that caster levels weren't higher than HD anymore. Planetars might even be vaguely close to CR 16 now.
So it can cast... Implosion, and Summon Monster 9. That's nice and all, but it's not as if it wouldn't have save or dies if its CL was 16 instead of 17. Why does this matter again?

No, a PFRPG planetar can't cast Implosion or Summon Monster 9.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:40 pm

Ok. Except that either they're still going to pack a punch because they're fucking Clerics, or they were not going to either way. The addition or subtraction of duplicate options does nothing to change that. If it was secretly over CR 16 before, it still is.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:53 pm

imperialspectre wrote:They generally nerfed spellcasting outsiders by making it so that caster levels weren't higher than HD anymore. Planetars might even be vaguely close to CR 16 now.

Spellcasting level should never be higher than CR.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:51 pm

RandomCasualty2 wrote:Spellcasting level should never be higher than CR.

Seconded. I TPK'd a decent game I was running with a quick-and-dirty enemy choice of a Weird, based on CR rather than actual capability. Shame on me for not catching it or doing my homework; shame on the designers for making a creature with CR X that casts as a level X+4 sorcerer.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:13 am

By the way, the Pathfinder SRD (PRD) is available on-line and has been updated with the monster stuff:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:38 am

mean_liar wrote: Seconded. I TPK'd a decent game I was running with a quick-and-dirty enemy choice of a Weird, based on CR rather than actual capability. Shame on me for not catching it or doing my homework; shame on the designers for making a creature with CR X that casts as a level X+4 sorcerer.

Oh yeah, weirds were fucking brutal.

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:15 pm

Looked up the balor and the pit fiend. Summoning another balor was slightly nerfed and infinite Blasphemy stunlock is gone, so balors actually are somewhat manageable. Pit fiend still has the infinite stunlock, so welcome to rocket launcher tag where you don't get the rocket launcher.

Also, they have officially admitted that their motherfucking game does not reach the levels where you can meaningfully influence their motherfucking setting (fails frenzy check, descends into incoherent rage)...

DeadlyReed · Post by **DeadlyReed** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:21 pm

What do they mean by that? You can't influence Golarian at any level in PF? LOL.

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:36 am

FatR wrote:Also, they have officially admitted that their motherfucking game does not reach the levels where you can meaningfully influence their motherfucking setting (fails frenzy check, descends into incoherent rage)...

Link?

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:53 am

DeadlyReed wrote:What do they mean by that? You can't influence Golarian at any level in PF? LOL.

No, you can't. Anyone of importance in the universe is explicitly CR 25+, with real movers and shakers being in 30+ range. So, you cannot create any lasting change and any change you can create is ultimately insignificant and meaningless. Their last two APs explicitly rub PCs faces in it. Not that 3.X didn't suffer from the same problem (because 3.X books APs were written by many of the same people), but at least there it wasn't laid out right in MM.

As about the link: see PRD above.

DeadlyReed · Post by **DeadlyReed** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:09 am

You're talking about the Second Darkness and the Legacy of Fire APs, right? I'll need to look those over again...

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:36 am

DeadlyReed wrote:You're talking about the Second Darkness and the Legacy of Fire APs, right? I'll need to look those over again...

Yes. Second Darkness is particularly offensive, as it puts a GM penis extension NPC right in the end specifically to explain that PCs suck and the demon lord behind most of the events does not even care whether they win or lose. Legacy of Fire just makes clear that the BBEG is sort of a loser that basically puts everything in motion to stop being a small fry, and also makes clear that real powers of both the material plane and the City of Brass can spank PCs with ease.