[Class] The Binder, Tome-style

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koz
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[Class] The Binder, Tome-style

Post by koz »

This is a co-operative effort between me and ubernoob, with some contributions from Bigode. It isn't finished as-yet, though.

This is designed as a fix for the binder in ToM, to bring it up to Tome standards. It assumes full use of the rules in the Tomes, including feats and item rules.

The Binder

BAB Average
Saves Fort good, Ref bad, Will good
Hit die d8
Class skills Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana, history, religion, planes), Profession, Sense Motive
Skill points 4+Int, x4 at 1st level

1: Soul binding (1 vestige, least abilities)
2:
3: Whispers of the vestige
4:
5:
6: Soul binding (lesser abilities)
7: Commune with vestige
8: Soul binding (2 vestiges)
9:
10:
11: Soul binding (greater abilities)
12:
13: Soul binding (rapid rebinding)
14:
15:
16: Soul binding (dark abilities)
17:
18: Soul binding (3 vestiges)
19:
20: Chosen vestige

Weapon and armour proficiencies Binders are proficient with all simple weapons, with light armour, but not with shields.

Soul binding (Su) A binder gains the ability to bind vestiges, which are entities beyond space and time, to his own soul, granting him unusual abilities. The process takes 10 minutes, and involves drawing a binding seal for the vestige, and then negotiating with it. After the binding is complete, it remains intact for 24 hours, and during this time, the binder cannot be bound to another vestige, nor can he dismiss the vestige he has bound to. While bound to a vestige, the binder exhibits its sign (some physical mark) and its influence (some behavioural or mental trait). Both cannot be magically disguised, though mundane disguises can cover up a sign. All vestige abilities are considered to be supernatural abilities unless otherwise noted.

At 1st level, a binder only has access to the least abilities provided by his chosen vestige. At 6th level, a binder also gains access to the lesser abilities of any vestige he binds to, while at 11th level, greater abilities also become available. At 16th level, the binder gains access to dark abilities also.

At 1st level, a binder can only be bound to one vestige at a time. Starting at 8th level, a binder can be bound to two vestiges simultaneously, whereas at 18th level, a binder can be bound to three vestiges simultaneously.

At 13th level, a binder learns how to change between vestiges rapidly and without the need to create a seal. As a standard, the binder may replace one vestige with another, losing all the benefits and drawbacks of one vestige with the replaced one.

Whispers of the vestige (Su) At 3rd level, a binder becomes more in-tune with the presence of the vestige, and learns to filter its mental presence for useful information about his environment. As long as he is bound to at least one vestige, a binder of 3rd level or higher can roll any initiative check, Spot check or Listen check twice, and take the better of the two results.

Commune with vestige (Su) Vestiges are extraordinary knowledgeable beings, having been bound to a great many people throughout their long existences. Starting at 7th level, a binder can attempt to ask the vestiges he is bound a question once per day. This takes 10 minutes of concentration, allowing no other actions during this time. The question must be one that can be answered in one word, and the odds of receiving a correct answer are equal to 40+binder level%. This roll is made secretly by the DM. Vestiges are generally not malicious, so that if this percentile roll is failed, they are likely to give a very vague answer, simply not know, answer randomly or simply have no answer at all (which likely means the binder didn't understand what the vestige was trying to tell him).

Chosen vestige (Ex) At 20th level, a binder forms a close bond to one vestige, which becomes his chosen vestige. All 5-round inaccessibility times with a chosen vestige become 4 round inaccessibility times instead.

Vestiges

Andras

Design aims/role Mounted charging, single big monster-killing

Least Abilities

- Proficiencies: You are proficient with the greatsword, lance, longsword and one weapon of your choice, determined when you bind Andras. You are also proficient with heavy armour.

- Mount: As a full-round action, you can summon a heavy warhorse, complete with military saddle and lance. This creature serves you as a trained mount until it is killed, you dismiss it, or your pact with Andras ends.

- Saddle-Sure: You gain a competence bonus on Ride checks equal to your binder level as long as Andras is bound to you.

- Mounted Combat: You gain Mounted Combat as a bonus feat as long as Andras is bound to you, and can treat your competence bonus granted from the Saddle-Sure ability+3 as your ranks in Ride for this purpose. Additionally, at every 5 binder levels beyond 1st, you can use the base ability of Mounted Combat an additional time per round.

- Fell the Greatest Foe: As a swift action, you can empower your attacks to deal greater damage to opponents larger than yourself. For the rest of this round, your attacks deal damage against larger foes as if you were their size.

Lesser Abilities

- Special Mount: The heavy warhorse you summon with the Mount ability gains all the bonuses that a paladin’s special mount would, and treats your binder level as your paladin level.

- Knightly Spirit: As a move action, you can remove all ability damage OR drain that you have suffered. Once you have used this ability, it becomes unavailable for 5 rounds.

- Strike Me Instead: As an immediate action, you can shout out at a monster to attack you alone. The opponent must make a Will save (DC equal to 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Cha mod), with a penalty equal to the number of size categories of difference between you and it. If it fails, it cannot use any abilities or attacks that do not have you as a target, or include you in their area of effect, for 1 round.

Greater Abilities

- Keen Blows: By expending a swift action, you can make your next attack with a one-handed weapon as a touch attack and deal double damage. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Phantom Steed: The heavy warhorse you summon with the Mount ability gains all the benefits that a phantom steed would gain, treating your binder level as its caster level.

- Skill of the Warrior: As long as you are bound to Andras, you can treat your binder level as your BAB (essentially, gaining good BAB for the duration of the pact).

Dark Abilities

- Subtle Cut: You gain Subtle Cut as a bonus feat as long as Andras is bound to you.

- Noble Sacrifice: As an immediate action, if you would be affected by an attack that would bring you to 0 hp or below, prior to the attack’s damage or effects being applied, you can choose to dismiss your steed. If you do you negate the attack that would have affected you, causing it to deal no damage and cause no effect, but still expending any resources required to perform it, the benefits of a feather fall and expeditious retreat spell for X rounds, where X is your binder level. However, your mount becomes inaccessible for the next 5 hours.

- The One Strike: As a standard action, you can make a single melee attack. This attack deals an additional 50 damage per size category above yours of the opponent struck.

Leraje

Design aims/role Stealth/archery

Least abilities

- Stealth Adept: You gain a competence bonus on Hide checks equal to your binder level as long as you are bound to Leraje.

- Sniper: You gain Sniper as a bonus feat as long as Leraje is bound to you, and you may treat your binder level as your BAB for the purpose of this feat’s benefits.

- Ricochet: As a standard action, you can make a single ranged attack against any numbers of targets who are not more than 30ft apart. Make a single attack roll and apply that result to the AC of all targets. Any hit you score deals damage normally. Any extra damage, such as sneak attack, only applies to one target, determined by you prior to making the attack roll.

- Weapon Proficiencies: You become proficient with all weapons with ‘bow’ in their name.

Lesser abilities

- Hunter: You gain Hunter as a bonus feat as long as Leraje is bound to you, and you may treat your binder level as your BAB for the purpose of this feat’s benefits.

- Hide in Plain Sight: As long as you are bound to Leraje, you can hide even when being observed or you have nothing to hide behind.

- Stealthy: You gain Stealthy as a bonus feat as long as Leraje is bound to you, and can treat your competence bonus granted from the Stealth Adept ability+3 as your ranks in Hide for this purpose.

Greater Abilities

- Pin-point Shot: As a full-round action, you may fire an extremely accurate, damaging shot from your weapon. You may make a single ranged attack as a touch attack, and deal half the weapon’s normal damage to Constitution directly, with a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) to negate. Once you have used this ability, is becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Blend into Shadows: As an immediate action, you may attempt to hide yourself to protect yourself from an attack. When you would be struck by an attack, you may make a Hide check. If this exceeds your opponent’s attack roll result, you disappear from view, rendering the attack useless, but still expending whatever resources were invested in it, and are now considered to be hidden. If you exceed your opponent’s attack roll result by 10 or more, you instead become invisible as per the spell, for 2 rounds. If you exceed your opponent’s attack roll result by 20 or more, you instead become ethereal as the spell etherealness, for 2 rounds. You can dismiss either of these abilities as a free action. While under the effect of this ability, you cannot use this ability again, and once this ability ends (either voluntarily or not), it remains unavailable for another 5 rounds.

- A Sniper Never Fails: You may re-roll your first ranged attack roll every round while you are bound to Leraje. Additionally, natural 1s are not automatic misses for you on ranged attacks.

Dark abilities

- Nail to the Earth: By expending 4 units of ammunition for a Medium or smaller target, 8 for a Large target, 16 for a Huge target, and so on, you may, as a standard action, attempt to pin them in place. Regardless of the number of shots fired, you make only a single attack roll. If it hits, the opponent is dealt your normal damage if Medium or smaller, double your normal damage if Large, quadruple if Huge, and so on, and also becomes unable to move unless he makes a Str check (DC = 10+number of arrows used). Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Hide Another: When you use your Blend into Shadows ability, you may take another willing target within 5ft per 5 binder levels with you, applying the same effect to them. For the purposes of being hidden, that target is considered to be using your Hide check result, and for the purposes of the other effects, the target can choose to end it voluntarily, but with respect to the target only.

- One Shot, One Kill: By spending 1 round, you can fire an arrow that is designed to kill. You may make a single attack at the beginning of the next round. The opponent must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 your binder level + Cha mod) or die.

Malphas

Design aims/role Sneak attacker/scout

Least abilities

- Bird’s Eye Viewing: You can summon a bird (which uses the statistics of a raven, although you may have it look like any bird of similar size), which appears perched on your shoulder. You have complete control over its actions, and gain all of its sensory input. Use the bird’s skill checks to determine the results of its actions and observations (for example, Bluff, Search, Spot, Listen), but your skill bonuses to derive information from its observations (such as Knowledge, Sense Motive and Spellcraft). If you have the trapfinding ability, you can use the bird to locate, but not disarm, traps. The bird can speak any languages that you can, and you can only have one bird summoned at a time. The bird remains until dismissed, killed or until you stop binding with Malphas.

- Invisibility: As a swift action, you can make yourself invisible, as the spell, for a number of rounds equal to your binder level. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Sneak: While bound to Malphas, you receive a competence bonus on Move Silently checks equal to your binder level.

- Poison Use: You are never at risk of poisoning yourself when handling or applying poison as long as you are bound to Malphas.

- Sneak Attack: While you are bound to Malphas, you gain sneak attack equal to 1d6 +1d6/3 binder levels. Except in the case of dice amount, it is identical to the rogue ability of the same name.

Lesser abilities

- Hamstring: As a swift action, you gain the ability to hamstring your opponents. For the next 2 rounds, every successful hit against an opponent reduces that opponent’s move speed by 5’, to a maximum of your binder level (rounded UP to the nearest 5ft). Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Blade Sweat: As a swift action, you can cause your weapon to sweat poison that saps the strength of your opponents. This deals 1d6 Str as both its initial and secondary damage, with a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) to negate. The poison persists for 1 round before evaporating. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Ghost Step: While bound to Malphas, you gain Ghost Step as a bonus feat, and can treat your bonus from the Sneak ability+3 as your ranks in Move Silently for this purpose.

Greater abilities

- Paralytic Strike: The first attack you make each round while bound to Malphas also inflicts 1d6 Dex damage if it hits. A Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) negates this extra damage, but not the attack.


- Shadow Jump: As a move action, you can teleport through shadows. You can teleport as far as close range (25ft + 5ft/2 binder levels), but you must begin and end the teleport in a shadowed area. Normal teleportation barriers do not impede this, and line of sight is not necessary, though you must be able to visualise clearly any area you cannot see. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Shadow Sight: You can see in darkness of any kind as if it were daylight to any distance as long as Malphas is bound to you. Additionally, you can reduce the range of this ability to 60ft as a move action to also gain the benefits of a true seeing spell for 2 rounds. Once these 2 rounds end, the range reduction also goes away. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

Dark abilities

- Crippling Strike: As the rogue ability of the same name, as long as you have Malphas bound.

- Instant Translocation: As a full-round action, you can exchange positions with the bird granted by the Bird’s Eye Viewing ability. This ability works at any range, but not across planar barriers, and is considered a teleportation effect. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Death Attack: As a full-round action, you may perform an attack designed to rapidly kill your opponent. Make a single attack as part of this action, which must be capable of dealing sneak attack damage. If it hits, the target struck must make a Will save or die (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod). If the save is passed, the attack is just a normal sneak attack.

Paimon

Design aims/role Light melee

Least abilities

- Weapon Proficiencies: You are proficient with the rapier and the short sword while Paimon is bound to you.

- Weapon Finesse: You gain the Weapon Finesse feat as a bonus feat as long as Paimon is bound to you, and you may treat your binder level as your BAB for the purpose of this feat.

- Graceful Lunge: As a swift action, you can grant all your attacks an additional 5ft of reach for 1 round. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Melee Skirmish: While Paimon is bound to you, as long as you move at least 10ft in any round, your melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 damage +1d6/3 binder levels. Note that this cannot damage a creature without a discernable anatomy or immune to critical hits.

- Paimon’s Skill: You receive a competence bonus on Tumble checks equal to your binder level as long as Paimon is bound to you.

Lesser abilities

- Dance of Death: As a full-round action, you can make a double move. During this movement, you may attack any creature which you can threaten, but not more than once per creature and to a maximum total number of attacks equal to your binder level. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Acrobatic: While you are bound to Paimon, you gain the benefits of the Acrobatic feat, and can use the bonus from the Paimon’s Skill ability+3 as your effective skill ranks for the purpose of this feat.

- Spring Attack: While you are bound to Paimon, you gain the benefits of the Spring Attack feat.

Greater abilities

- Combat Confidence: While you are bound to Paimon, you no longer provoke AOOs for movement of any sort.

- One Thousand Cuts: As a standard action, you can make a single attack. If this hits, you deal ten times normal damage. Any damage from the Melee Skirmish ability is also multiplied. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Step Aside: As an immediate action, you may move your speed. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

Dark abilities

- Underfoot Combat: As a move action, you can move into the square of a larger creature. You remain in that square, moving with the creature, and can exit with another move action. Any attacks that you make against that creature are made against its flat-footed AC, and your damage from Melee Skirmish applies to all attacks against that creature.

- Combat Banter: As a standard action, you may make a Bluff check against your opponent’s AC. If you win, your opponent falls prone, provoking an AOO from you, which deals double damage. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds. Additionally, if an opponent that falls prone from this ability attempts to get up while in your threatened area, you may make an Intimidate check against them, with a competence bonus equal to your binder level. If you pass, your opponent surrenders (consider them effectively dead for combat purposes). Neither of these options work against mindless opponents, and the latter option does not work against an opponent whose CR is greater than your character level.

- Disfiguring Strike: While you are bound to Paimon, all your melee attacks deal 2 points of Cha damage in addition to their normal damage, or 1 point against creatures of a different type to you. This ability does not work on creatures with Int less than 3.

Savnok

Design goals/role Defensive/armour

Least abilities

- Armour proficiency: You are proficient in all types of armour and all shields as long as Savnok is bound to you.

- Savnok’s Armour: At will, as a full-round action, you can summon a suit of full plate onto your body, with a matching heavy steel shield. Only you can wear or use them, and if they are removed, they simply vanish. The full plate and shield have an enhancement bonus to AC equal to 1/3 your binder level each. Both the full plate and the shield last until dismissed or until you stop binding with Savnok.

- Defend Another: As a free action, you can reduce your AC by up to the bonus given by the full plate from Savnok’s Armour, and add this as a dodge bonus to an adjacent ally’s AC for 1 whole round.

- Threatened Withdrawal: Any enemy that begins his turn adjacent to you cannot withdraw or use the Tumble skill to avoid AOOs from moving in your threatened zone.

Lesser abilities

- Defensive Swap: As an immediate action, if an ally within close range is targeted by an attack, but prior to any dice relating to the attack being rolled or any part of the attack resolving, you can swap positions with that ally, causing the attack to affect you instead, essentially making you its target. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Shield Bash: As a standard action, you may bash an opponent within reach with the shield granted by Savnok’s Armour. That opponent is dealt the shield’s AC bonus + your Str damage, and must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) or be stunned for 1 round.

- Blood-Spiked Charge: As a full-round action, you may grow armour spikes from the armour granted by Savnok’s Armour, which have an enhancement bonus equal to the armour, and then make a charge attack. However, you do not provoke any AOOs during this movement, and can ignore intervening opponents or allies if you succeed on a bull rush attempt against them. Upon reaching your target, you may make a single attack, which deals damage equal to twice what your armour spikes would normally deal, and can attempt to start a grapple as a free action. Any opponent you successfully bull rush during this movement, as well as your target if you successfully hit, must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) or become shaken until the end of the encounter. Anyone who successfully passes this save is immune to this aspect of this ability for 24 hours.

Greater abilities

- Distracting Shield: As an immediate action, you can throw the shield granted by Savnok’s Armour out to Long range (400ft + 40ft/binder level), requiring an attack roll against touch AC to hit, with the shield’s enhancement bonus applying on the attack roll. If it hits, it deals damage equal to a longsword of your size + your Str mod + the shield’s enhancement bonus, and the opponent must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) or be stunned for 1 round. Additionally, if this was done in response to an action being declared, a successful stun causes the action to be lost, but still expends any resources that were invested into it. Your shield returns at the beginning of the next round, before which time you lose its benefits. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Unliving Armour: As long as you wear the armour granted by Savnok’s armour, you gain undead traits, and can be considered an undead creature for the purposes of spells if it would be beneficial to you.

- Dreaded Calm: As a standard action, you can radiate an aura of fear out to close range (25ft + 5ft/2 binder levels). All opponents in that area must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) or be affected as if by a fear spell, without regard to the HD cap, for a number of rounds equal to your binder level. A passed save renders an opponent immune to this ability for 24 hours. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

Dark abilities

- Deathless Bastion: As a swift action, you can take 2 Con damage. If you do, and you are below half your normal maximum in hp, you cannot be killed by hit point damage for a number of rounds equal to your binder level. However, you cannot be the recipient of healing of any sort (including regeneration or fast healing) or temporary hit points of any sort either, and damage still continues to accrue, until the ability’s duration runs out. Only an effect that would destroy your body (such as disintegrate) or one that would change it into a form that could no longer wear the armour renders you vulnerable to dying.

- Tomb of Metal: As a standard action, you can attempt a melee touch attack. If it hits, your opponent is dealt Dex drain equal to your binder level, with a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 binder level + Cha mod) for half. If this reduces the opponent’s Dex to 0 or less, they become entirely metal (though the metal is not pure or valuable). This does not work on nonliving creatures. Once you have used this ability, it becomes inaccessible for 5 rounds.

- Deadly Shield: The shield granted by the Savnok’s Armour ability becomes a thrown weapon that can be thrown out to close range with no increment penalties. It deals damage equal to a longbow of your size + your Str mod and has an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the enhancement bonus it has. Additionally, it has a critical threat range of 19-20, and on a successful crit, will sever a random limb (equal chance of any). The latter ability works even against creatures immune to critical hits. The shield returns after each attack, thus allowing you to make as many attacks with it as your BAB will allow.
Last edited by koz on Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by ubernoob »

So is that relatively solid compared to a Tome Fighter or Barbarian, or does no one want to read the big block of text? I'd like to see where my instincts went wrong. I made most of the crunch, but I know there are much better designers around here than me.
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Post by Surgo »

Will read it and reply when back on my own computer. Check this space soon!
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Post by ubernoob »

Surgo wrote:Will read it and reply when back on my own computer. Check this space soon!
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Post by Cheiromancer »

Dunno if anyone is interested in the thread after all this time, but I doubt it will hurt to post...

I was thinking about this class in connection with the whole linear vs. quadratic thing. Tome fighters are quadratic; they get more feats as they go up in level, and the feats scale, so they get more benefit from each feat too. With 10 feats as class features they start with 2 abilities at level 1 (the +0 and +1 benefit) and 50 abilities at level 20. Plus the class features at odd levels, the feats from leveling up, and so on.

Each of the vestiges printed here has four tiers (least, lesser, greater, dark), with 3 abilities per tier. Three vestiges times 12 abilities is 36, which seems a lot less than the 50 a fighter gets from bonus feats. But there are 9 dark abilities vs 10 capstone feat abilities, so it is probably OK.

The class does look weak at lower levels, though. For the first five levels the binder only has the least abilities of one vestige. And some of the abilities are +binder level to a skill or something. Not that great if you are first or second level. At these levels fighters get awesome class abilities like Combat Focus and Problem Solver. The binder's ability to reroll spot and initiative doesn't look that special in comparison.

Also, the binder chassis is not quite as good as a fighter's. Poor reflex doesn't help, and medium BAB means that combat feats from leveling up (or a racial bonus feat) don't advance as fast as a fighter's. Feats granted by vestiges advance at the full rate, but it would be nice if all the combat feats advanced according to a good BAB progression.

I think the most serious difficulty is the relative weakness at lower-levels. The other problems can be fixed; let the martial vestiges give +1 BAB and the sneaky vestiges give +2 Reflex or something. (Word it so the binder doesn't get a higher BAB than a fighter, or an absurd Reflex save at low levels.) Jazz up some of the class abilities so they let the binder be awesome (or at least useful) a couple of times a day. For instance, say the Ghostly Whispers at level three lets them cast a total of three spells per day chosen from augury, detect thoughts, and nerveskitter. For Commune with Vestige it could be clairaudience/clairvoyance, divination, or scrying. Or whatever. The class progression might look like this:

1. 1st vestige, least abilities
2. 2nd vestige, least abilities
3. Ghost whispers
4. 3rd vestige, least abilities
5.
6. 1st vestige, lesser abilities
7. 2nd vestige, lesser abilities
8. Commune with vestige
9. 3rd vestige, lesser abilities
10.
11. 1st vestige, greater abilities
12. 2nd vestige, greater abilities
13. rapid rebinding
14. 3rd vestige, greater abilities
15.
16. 1st vestige, dark abilities
17. 2nd vestige, dark abilities
18. bonus feat?
19. 3rd vestige, dark abilities
20. Chosen vestige

I'm not sure how useful rabid rebinding would be. A binder will probably choose feats, skills and equipment to synergize well with a particular sequence of vestiges, and the ability to reshuffle vestiges probably won't be that helpful. And it would be a pain to redo the binder's character sheet on the fly, anyway.

Maybe there can be a short list of abilities, accessible a few rounds (or minutes) per day, that help the binder solve particular problems. Resistance (or immunity) to some sort of energy. Immunity to ability damage/drain (although Savnok's unliving armor will mostly give you this). Being able to fly, or function underwater. Time hop. Stuff like that. Maybe access to better lists of short-term fixes can be the abilities for levels 5, 10 and 15. Level 13 can be a package of divinations like what I've suggested for levels 3 and 8. Commune, legend Lore and something else.

However it turns out, I think the challenge is to make it fun and useful at lower levels. A lot of the fun lies in combining vestiges. That's one of the reasons why I suggest giving access to more vestiges early on. And of course more vestiges could be made. 12 or 13 would be a good number, I think. 5 is too few.

edit: Now I'm thinking I've swung the pendulum too far the other way. 3 abilities in 5 levels is too few, but 9 in 3 levels is likely too much. No matter if the BAB is lower or whatever. More thought is needed.
Last edited by Cheiromancer on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hicks »

While bound to a vestige, the binder exhibits its sign (some physical mark) and its influence (some behavioural or mental trait). Both cannot be magically disguised, though mundane disguises can cover up a sign.
How does this interact with illusions and polymorph? Right now it looks like you can see them standing behind an illusionary wall and you can't turn them into a newt.

Your wording of Whispers of the vestige is a little confusing; I'd remove all except the was "check" in the description.
Commune with vestige (Su) Vestiges are extraordinary knowledgeable beings, having been bound to a great many people throughout their long existences. Starting at 7th level, a binder can attempt to ask the vestiges he is bound a question once per day. This takes 10 minutes of concentration, allowing no other actions during this time. The question must be one that can be answered in one word, and the odds of receiving a correct answer are equal to 40+binder level%. This roll is made secretly by the DM. Vestiges are generally not malicious, so that if this percentile roll is failed, they are likely to give a very vague answer, simply not know, answer randomly or simply have no answer at all (which likely means the binder didn't understand what the vestige was trying to tell him).
Bullshit. The answer is one word. Additionally, this ability is shit. Divination is a 7th level ability that matters, but freakin augury starts at 73% with a 1 minute casting time at 3ed level.
Last edited by Hicks on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

Actually, it appears that if the mark is "you have a giant dick drawn on your face", then Polymorph would turn you into a newt with a dick drawn on its face. Similar to how some myths about shapechangers give them some form of "tell" that is always there no matter what they do.

But apparently they do show up behind illusory walls and can never turn invisible.
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Post by Hicks »

Oh. Em. Gee. Five years! This is from 2008! I'm responding to this like Mister Sinister is gonna need help and it's Five Years Old! Cheiromancer, your new name is Necromancer. If you're going to crib off of someone else's old stuff, start a new thread and link to the old stuff.
Last edited by Hicks on Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd
shadzar wrote:those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.
Lokathor wrote:Anything worth sniffing can't be sniffed
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Cheiromancer
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:48 am

Post by Cheiromancer »

Koumei wrote:Actually, it appears that if the mark is "you have a giant dick drawn on your face", then Polymorph would turn you into a newt with a dick drawn on its face. Similar to how some myths about shapechangers give them some form of "tell" that is always there no matter what they do.

But apparently they do show up behind illusory walls and can never turn invisible.
I like the idea of a "tell."

And I think that the idea is that you can't disguise it with a change self or a Hat of Disguise. But I don't think the intention is that you can't turn invisible. Unfortunately, both change self and invisibility are glamers, so I don't know how a rule could distinguish them. A still image is a figment, though, so you could probably write an exception to figments.
Hicks wrote:Divination is a 7th level ability that matters, but freakin augury starts at 73% with a 1 minute casting time at 3ed level.
Yeah, I think the ability could definitely be boosted. DM's vary a lot in how well they treat divinations like this; that's why I suggest putting an alternative (e.g. nerveskitter) if you are in a campaign where auguries, divinations, legend lore and the like are useless.

Oh, and my apologies, Hicks for making you think that Mister_Sinister was active again. Although I did say the thread was old when I bumped it.

Any thoughts about the power of the class, especially at lower levels? If there are problems, how could they be fixed?

I'm on the fence about my alternate progression of abilities. At 4th level my binder would have 9 abilities, plus whatever ghostly whispers turns out to be. (I'm not counting weapon and armor proficiencies as an ability, since fighters also have it; nor mundane equipment). The fighter has two feats, each giving 2 abilities at that BAB. The fighter also has, relative to the binder at that level, a +3 reflex, +1 BAB, Combat Focus, Problem Solver and Pack Mule. It looks pretty even, but I am not sure. If level 5 stays a dead level (or maybe something minor, like Suppress Sign: 1 sign), then the fighter's Active Assault ability (with the extra 5-ft. step) lets him definitely pull ahead.

At 6th level or higher I think the fighter has more level appropriate abilities, either from combat feats (all of which improve at +6 BAB) or things like Forge Lore or Foil Action.

But I'm not sure. Tome classes are still new to me, and I am not sure what the pitfalls are in their design.
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