Shadowrun 4e newbie questions

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:04 pm

Lokathor wrote:I could image that one of the benefits of being part of a magical group is that you could "rent" access to a lodge that they have (perhaps one among several) for a hefty fee to the group coffers.

A number of the sample magical groups in Street Magic do indeed have magical lodges for use by members with specified Force, and the "group resources and dues" part actually has randomly-determined Force levels for the group's lodge(s).

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:05 am

This is true, I suppose I took that to be some kind of minor side benefit in the past. Now it seems pretty awesome.

My other question still stands, Does an Ends Of The Matrix Technomancer require similar space to house their Resonance Node?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:32 am

Does an Ends of the Matrix Technomancer require similar space for their spooky technomantic node thing?

No. They can fit one of those in any room they want. Of course, they don't get a cheap and awesome astral barrier out of the deal as well.

-Username17

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:44 pm

Are Knowledge skills supposed to be an important kind of thing? If so, could someone elaborate on what kinds of knowledge skills people would pick up from what kinds of places and what they might apply to? It seems like the Knowledge Skill section of the game is potentially very awesome but just described really shittily in the book. Everyone in my game takes "Security Design" and "Security Procedures" and then not much else and just grabs a bunch of languages and lingos because they have a more concrete effect. I see things like "Magic Background" and "Matrix Background" in some of the example sheets, and I don't even know what those really mean.

Without a knowledge skill, how much do characters automatically know about the world around them?

Wesley Street · Post by **Wesley Street** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:40 pm

Yeah, I don't know what "Magic Background" and "Matrix Background" refers to either. Perhaps some sort of generalized formal study of Magic/Matrix concepts?

Knowledge skills are meant to both flesh out a PC's personality (such as a Knowledge skill in Home-Made Children's Toys) and to add extra depth to an active skill. For example, Demolitions allows a PC to effectively plant explosives. But it doesn't provide for any kind of knowledge as to the history of bomb-making or any kind of forensic insight into an explosion in a shopping mall.

Without a knowledge skill, characters have only casual or no knowledge of a topic (GM fiat).

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:47 am

What's up with Two Weapon Fighting in Shadowrun? It seems like it's always a bad deal because you split your attack dice pool.

When do people want to try TWF? And if they never do, what kind of adjustments might make it something for people to try?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:12 am

Lokathor wrote:What's up with Two Weapon Fighting in Shadowrun? It seems like it's always a bad deal because you split your attack dice pool.

When do people want to try TWF? And if they never do, what kind of adjustments might make it something for people to try?

You get your base weapon damage twice. Since each damage point is equal in value to a hit, you do more overall damage if the base weapon damage is more than the expected combined hits on your target's defense + soak. And frankly, in almost all cases it is.

Let's consider the very plausible situation where you are firing two heavy pistols at your opponent - who in turn happens to be a generic guard wearing a flack vest (Reaction 2, Body 3, Armor 4). Let's say for the moment that you have a dicepool of 12, because shooting people is something you do. You could shoot once with a simple action and be almost assured of hitting. You would on average get 4 hits and your target would roll a total of 8 dice on dodging and soaking. So, 2.7 hits against you. So your average take-home is 6.3 damage to the target. On the other hand, you could split your pool 7/5 and fire two heavy pistols at the same target. On the second shot, your vic would even suffer an additional -1 die on their defense roll (defending with just 1 die). You still average 4 total hits staging damage up (it doesn't matter whether they come on the first or second attack), but this time your opponent gets to roll a total of 15 dice staging things down. But you're still way ahead, because you get the base heavy pistol damage twice - 10 instead of 5. That means that you average 9 total damage, which is more than 6.3. If you had some sort of generic bonus like ammunition bad assery, you would drop the target with a simple action instead of not doing so.

That being said, I am not particularly happy with the TWF rules for 4th edition, and I use different damage and TWF rules for AWoD because of it.

-Username17

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:07 pm

I had temporarily forgotten just how "average" an average guard is. That makes a lot more sense now.

It seems like splitting your spells with combat spells would be a similarly crazy-insane damage boost. And if you do it right, you could hit some walls for as much damage as low-grade explosives.

Reach weapons supposedly have a reach value "from 0 to 4", but SR4A doesn't have any reach values above 2. Is the explanation text just an error?

Would it be out of line to let melee TWF add up the reach of both weapons for determining the character's reach? (Because they can block with the offhand weapon and such)

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:14 pm

The Spell Design examples in Street Magic have been making me think about slight modifications to existing spells to better suit my purposes. For example, couldn't you make Improved Invisibility touch (-2 DV) and remove single sense (+2 DV) to cloak your visual and audio presence for no extra DV?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:07 am

The spell design rules are very much of an inexact science. Making buffs touch only is not much of a limitation, and the GM would be within their rights to limit the drain benefits thereof. But basically: sure. That would be a valid reading of the spell design rules that the GM might allow.

-Username17

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:41 pm

Can you maintain a power on a plane that you're not present on? Particularly, can you cast a spell on an ally and then astrally project? Can a spirit Materialize to use Concealment (a Physical power) and then drop the Materialization and go back to being astral?

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:35 pm

The Spirit example is explicitly true, though I don't have my book with me to cite a page. They explicitly recommend doing it that way though.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:49 pm

Lokathor wrote:Can you maintain a power on a plane that you're not present on? Particularly, can you cast a spell on an ally and then astrally project? Can a spirit Materialize to use Concealment (a Physical power) and then drop the Materialization and go back to being astral?

Yes.

-Username17

Archmage · Post by **Archmage** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:07 pm

Wait, you mean you don't have to retain line of sight while sustaining a spell, only when you cast it?

If that's the case, that's kind of significant and I'm annoyed I didn't realize it before.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:42 pm

Archmage wrote:Wait, you mean you don't have to retain line of sight while sustaining a spell, only when you cast it?

If that's the case, that's kind of significant and I'm annoyed I didn't realize it before.

Yep. For example, you can cast invisibility on a target, causing you to lose LOS on it, and then continue sustaining the spell. The sustaining penalties are explicit and exclusive. Spells do not wink out if you go around the corner.

Where it gets a little odd is when you move sustained area of effect spells. In order to do that, you need to see the current effect and the new target. But that's a pretty special case, and most people don't remember you can do that (or have spells where it would matter).

-Username17

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:01 am

Something that came up today and required clarification: when banishing a bound spirit (for the purpose of pokemoning it) does the bonus from its summoner's Magic come from when the spirit was bound, or the summoner's current Magic? If the latter, does the summoner's Magic apply when unconscious?

For the record, we ruled that it was the at-binding effective Magic and unconsciousness didn't affect that.

Archmage · Post by **Archmage** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:03 am

There doesn't seem to be an answer as to whether to use current Magic or "at time-of-summoning Magic" if they're different. I'd say just pick one and stick with it. Most effects rely on current Magic, and I can't find anything saying that the Force of any now-permanent effects you created when your Magic was higher is reduced (such as Wards).

As for unconsciousness, I'd say it does, but only because it doesn't say otherwise anywhere and because a bound spirit isn't being sustained by you the way a spell is (it doesn't automatically wink out of existence when you go unconscious).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:18 pm

Everything that uses your Magic uses your current Magic.

-Username17

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:34 pm

There's a program that adds it's rating to social rolls. The "Empathy Program".

Is this as Hax as it seems? Or does everyone have that kind of thing just floating around and the world just always throws 10+ dice on all social rolls?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:50 pm

Lokathor wrote:There's a program that adds it's rating to social rolls. The "Empathy Program".

Is this as Hax as it seems? Or does everyone have that kind of thing just floating around and the world just always throws 10+ dice on all social rolls?

It's totally hax. There are a few items in Arsenal that are totally unfair. That would be one of them.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:29 am

Genetic Heritage a 10 Pt. quality. You want Synaptic booster 3 at Char. Gen?
(2 if you cant get over availability 12)
Most of the functional changes available through bioware are available through the Animal Features transgenic alteration genetech for comparable Essence and nuyen costs

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:09 am

Don't think you will find a GM that allows something like that though . .
And for getting above Availability of 12, there's restricted gear . .
But how that would work with something simply growing in your own body, i don't know . .
RAW-Technically, the combination would work. But logically, either you simply can't grow rating 3 or you don't need Restricted Gear for something growing in your own body no matter what . .

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:56 pm

Well mine allowed it (in principle).
He has not looked at the Char.-Sheet, at this time...

So he may yet disallow it.

Since the Char. at hand is an Mage, I 'only' took Synaptic Booster 2.
And got an 21.000 Nuyen discount on the other bioware...

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:18 pm

*boooh*! Power-Gamer! *snickers* ^^
But at least, you're doing it right i guess.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:54 pm

Guilty as charged.

But to be honest, I dont see the point of the quality if Bioware isnt allowed.
For 10 pt. you could get 50.000 Nuyen. All Geneware (I think) costs less than 50.000.

It would be only worth it, if you allready took max point in money, and still needed more. (not shure how often thats the case...)