The Gaming Den

So, my first semester in college with an electrical engineering degree is almost but not-quite complete. My original goal was to become a power plant operator because I liked the work in the Navy and it pays a lot, but I've been recently been hit with the greed/laziness bug.

Basically, I want a job that maximizes the amount of money I can get while also maximizing my leisure. So that means jobs like corporate lawyer are out, because that's too much damn work. The job will also have to be feasible for an out-of-college student with no current connections to go, so no CEO or anything like that.

I've been really thinking about switching to something like business school, depending on if it maximizes leisure and cash. And since this board is all about min-maxxing, I thought what better place than here to ask? I might ask the Straight Dope, too, but I love you guys.

Globe Trotting Assassin. You work once, maybe twice a year.

-Username17

I guess I should've said 'legal', too.

You play games and minmax so you're good at math and abstract concepts, yes?

I humbly suggest my field:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/574065-t ... controller
http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/sea ... controller

To do it well, you'll need site experience rather than office experience. My job is basically all about how well I can interpret incomplete information to create schedule and budgetary forecasts. I do all the complicated and intricate financial shit so that project managers can handle higher-level relations with the contractor/client/whoever. If you do your job well you're indispensable - large construction projects generate a ton of contracts and money changing and if you're not watching it from the beginning you'll lose track of it.

I am very well compensated and work smart, not hard. As a profession we're as rare as hen's teeth. I could hire at least one junior controller (degree, 2+ years experience, and site experience) right now at $50k-$60k/year.

My own degree is in Mathematics. Data interpretation and common sense are worth a LOT more than an understanding of engineering... that said, an engineer would do my job better. I handle large-project public construction, but a civil engineer could do massive bridge/road jobs, mechanical engineers could do petrochemical plants, etc... basically, more specialized construction types. That specialization usually means you have to move every few years though, whereas building construction can stay centrally located.

Plus, with some recent industry changes I think project controlling is going to be a hot commodity, for at least as long as the economy isn't booming.

FrankTrollman wrote:Globe Trotting Assassin. You work once, maybe twice a year.

-Username17

No good. The CIA requires their assassins* to have combat experience with the special forces AND a college degree.

*called "Special Skills Officers" on their website.

Sir Neil wrote:

FrankTrollman wrote:Globe Trotting Assassin. You work once, maybe twice a year.

-Username17

No good. The CIA requires their assassins* to have combat experience with the special forces AND a college degree.

*called "Special Skills Officers" on their website.

CIA assassins also don't get paid that much. Mercenary work is much more profitable.

A guy in my Western Civ class was was short-timer in the army, and he said Blackwater offered him a 6 fig contract for two years of service. He turned it down though.

I would recommend against business school. Highly. a business degree is nearly meaningless because so many people have them. Getting an MBA is likewise no guarantee, you will need a 3.8 or higher GPA to get in the MBA programs I am aware of (which is an admitted small sampling, ymmv).

the best way I can think of is get a basic knowledge of marketing, economics, accounting, etc. and become an entrepreneur. You might get lucky if you happen to figure out the next big thing and find a way to keep the big dogs from taking it from you.

That being said, if you weren't born to a wealthy family you're not likely to see wealth any time in your life. There are people on my end of the economic spectrum (the 20k and under club) that put more hours into work than most people put into being awake and never make it anywhere.

Furthermore, things are harder than anyone thinks. http://www.johndiesattheend.com/updates/?p=1071

Go into something involving math, science, or medicine that will make you a ton of money. Fuck Liberal Arts and General Studies - that shit is for suckers. Get as far as you can in your chosen discipline at university. You'll make more money with a medical degree or a P.h.D. or whatever then you will if you settle for a Bachelor's or Master's degree. Chances are pretty good that any job you end up with - regardless of your education or interests - is going to end up being a miserable grindfest, so get an education that will make as much money for you as quickly as possible so you can actually retire. Fuck, if you can retire at ALL, you'll be better off then most Americans. Our country is only going to get worse, not better - best make sure you cover your ass financially, because no one else is going to do it for you.

On the 'legal assassin' front, one of my acquaintances was a marine sniper, and when he mustered out he was approached by the South African government with a very generous offer if he'd agree to help them with their poacher problem.

Economic Geologists can make six figures with a BA because there is a lack of interest in the subject and a huge amount of new demand for resources from the world's developing economies. It might not meet your definition of easy, but the ratio of cash to work is better than a lot of fields.

The Lunatic Fringe wrote:Economic Geologists can make six figures with a BA because there is a lack of interest in the subject and a huge amount of new demand for resources from the world's developing economies. It might not meet your definition of easy, but the ratio of cash to work is better than a lot of fields.

What do they do, exactly? That's not a field I'm familiar with.

Gelare wrote:

The Lunatic Fringe wrote:Economic Geologists can make six figures with a BA because there is a lack of interest in the subject and a huge amount of new demand for resources from the world's developing economies. It might not meet your definition of easy, but the ratio of cash to work is better than a lot of fields.

What do they do, exactly? That's not a field I'm familiar with.

My turf, one I finish my degree.

An economic geologist looks for economically viable sites, among other things. Ores, metals, minerals, stones...Whatever. The most common is mining.

There's a lot of ways to turn a profit from geology, though.

Hydrology (wells, water flow, all kinds of other things) will always be around. One of my professors has his own company focusing on that. He does a lot of environmental clean-up, too. If you ever wanted some good PR, you could go to a developing country and try to set up a clean water supply for pro-bono.

Surveying? Pssh. Learn that and you're set for life.

Go into paleontology and specialize in microfossils and the oil companies will want you. Out in the water, they use the microfossils to tell how old the dirt they're pulling up is. Good money. Not hard work, once you get your eye in--just looking in a microscope. If you like the ocean thing, that's good, too. One of my professors did it. And you can get your own trilobite fossils and stuff.

Academic geology...eh, well. It's harder to make money, but a lot of minerals have weird properties. Another professor said if he ever had a quarter-million, he'd run some filtration tests on zeolites (silicate minerals that form in tube-like structures) because they're not really explored.

I've been kind of wary about continuing my electrical engineering degree because I've heard remarks from TAs that getting a masters or PhD doesn't make you all that more competitive than a BA.

And I know it's also petty and anecdotal, but Dilbert and other related media also makes computer/electrical engineering look really hellish.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:I've been kind of wary about continuing my electrical engineering degree because I've heard remarks from TAs that getting a masters or PhD doesn't make you all that more competitive than a BA.

And I know it's also petty and anecdotal, but Dilbert and other related media also makes computer/electrical engineering look really hellish.

I could ask the engineers at work. I work as a janitor at the district office for the US Corps of Engineers, and they handle all sorts of stuff. Some of them like me.

Mind you, I do see a lot of Dilbert cartoons on cubicles with a note on them saying who it is...

Count Arioch the 28th wrote: I would recommend against business school. Highly. a business degree is nearly meaningless because so many people have them.

There's a lot of business schools that pump out a lot of degrees but I feel like a business degree from Wharton or Tuck would be worth quite a lot.

I guess that puts you at the top whatever% though, and the top whatever% of any field can always find good employment.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:I've been kind of wary about continuing my electrical engineering degree because I've heard remarks from TAs that getting a masters or PhD doesn't make you all that more competitive than a BA.

Most of the time, experience is more valuable than additional degrees. If you are going into academia or psychology or something, postgraduate education is pretty much required, but in most industry, a BA should be alright. That said, a Master's degree takes only 2 years, and can make you much more competitive in certain circumstances.

And I know it's also petty and anecdotal, but Dilbert and other related media also makes computer/electrical engineering look really hellish.

The private sector is based on political models that were abandoned long ago in the governments and academies of most of the world (nominally), sometimes as a result of violent revolutions. Models like totalitarianism. And Oligarchy. And hereditary rule. Working in the private sector sucks. You have to do whatever an arbitrarily appointed superior says, and their word will almost always be believed over yours. This is why the most commonly cited motivator for new entrepreneurs is "be your own boss".

Academia and government are not much better, but at least things are somewhat out in the open, and your higher-ups have to act as a group (like a department voting on a tenure application) or answer to elected officials (like a bureaucrat in the gov).

In short, it's not the field. Dilbert is a satire of generic office life, the fact that he does a particular job is just flavor.

That's definitely a good point. In the town I live in, there's two colleges. One is a diploma mill (National Business College. You could tell your prospective employer that you spent 4 years punching yourself in the crotch repeatedly and it would count more than a degree from there), one is considered a respected college that has an excellent business program. (James Madison University. I am not sure of where JMU stands nationally, but as far as Virginia goes it's considered the best business college. It might just be a very tasty boot.)

That being said, failing out of a business program isn't going to happen. However, if you didn't do internships and forge connections like a demon, then the business degree is not worth quite as much. This is from an outsider's perspective, but my friends who have business degrees tend to do well if they can network well, and not do so well if they failed to network and intern and all that stuff.

The actual piece of paper? Looks nice on the wall. It's the connections that count more.

Diploma mills are great to HR departments: They tell the employer you're willing to sacrifice your dignity and pocketbook to be employed.

Good little automoton.

-Crissa

Defence contracting is the way to go if you actually want time off and decent money. The pay is good, the hours a reasonable the conditions are okay and the work is intresting. You also have the right blended background, and are significant ahead if you still have a security clearance.

BAE, Boeing etc, etc.

Pay's not amazing, but it's certainly 'good'

Learn COBOL, or in a pinch, ADA. Get a security clearance. You will work on crucial legacy code everyone is afraid to replace with something modern. Once you get a job doing this and can keep it for a couple of years you are essentially untouchable and will earn an arbitrary salary.

On the flip side you will probably go insane, lose your sense of humor and of course get a beeper so they can reach you on the moon if need be.

Edit: If you are actually serious ... find something that pays well and that you enjoy doing. Then get good at it. Spending half of your waking life doing something you hate, no matter how well it pays, is not a recipe for a happy life.

^ the edit part is the best advice re: work.

Murtak wrote:Edit: If you are actually serious ... find something that pays well and that you enjoy doing. Then get good at it. Spending half of your waking life doing something you hate, no matter how well it pays, is not a recipe for a happy life.

Definitely. Of course, you'll have to find your own thresholds for "enough money" and "happiness".

Regarding the field being like Dilbert: it depends more on the company than the field. Sure, different fields have different trends, but you may have to move around a bit job to job to find one that is more relaxed. I write software, and I've worked for two companies. One was very small, and for two years, I was the only full time employee. My current job is at a very large company. The building I work in has 600 employees, and is part of a much larger company. So, it's a totally different atmosphere. Even still, my department is much more relaxed than you'd think just looking at the size of the company. And if I were to work in IT across the street, my life would be a lot more Dilbert-like.

Sadly, you won't be able to tell this before you get a job, but if you don't like it somewhere, you can always stick around long enough to build your resume a bit before moving on to bigger (and hopefully better) things.

High pay, low workload and legal:

I say: NFL Kicker.

It starts in the high 6-figures and you work for like a half-dozen 10 second plays in each of 20-24 games. Then you get the other half of the year off.

Of course you need to be one of the best 32 in the country to keep the job - miss 2 field goals from inside 35 in any single game and you're done.

On the downside there is a large amount of training and staying in shape, and you won't ever last more than about 10 years.