Comprehensive Tome Errata

The homebrew forum

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Comprehensive Tome Errata

Post by Kaelik »

The purpose of this is to errata the Tomes, fixing errors or misconceptions that have occurred, as well as rebalancing some of the earlier work to the higher level it advanced to. The Monk was about as powerful as the jester and Assassin. But the Monk got a bigger powerup from Races of War than the Assassin or Jester.

The Fiendish Brute was meant to use Str instead of BAB, and was competing only with Assassins for damage. Since then, BAB became important for combat characters, and Barbarians and Fighters and Samurai came into play.

Some problems are not going to be fixed by errata, they are going to be fixed by additions. I'll be incorporating some of those in here too.

The Problem with Assassins is that no feat they ever take will be as useful to them as a Combat feat to a Samurai. The Solution is better feats for the Assassin, not a change to the class.

EDIT: The purpose has changed quite a bit, and is now about making the perfect Tome game, and all that entails. Making classes is easy, and making monsters is hard, so this is just about changing rules. Lots of stuff that wasn't Tome related at all at the time has more and more become a part of this.

My eventual goal is for everything here to be considered a default part of Tome rules, when people talk about Tome games, and while people are, as ever, free to houserule anything, the idea is to parasitically attach my work to F&K, and have it be a true inheritor to the Tome name.

That said, here is what I have so far:

Dungeonomicon:

Dungeonomicon:

1) Under fighting styles, the third entry shall be replaced with:

"While Active, your Fighting Style forces any opponent struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or become stunned for one round. This occurs after each attack, before the next one, and only one save is forced per creature."

Likewise all other save causing fighting styles change to one per round.

Insertion:

Metamagic feat rules:

[Metamagic] Feats allow you to increase the potency of the lower level spell or spell like abilities you can cast. Each application of a metamagic feat increases the Metamagic Level (ML) by the amount listed. You may only apply metamagic to a spell such that the spell level plus the metamagic level is less than or equal to 1/2 your Character Level rounded up. All metamagic effects affect the entire spell. Thus, if you cast a widened, empowered fireball, the empowering doesn't just apply the normal area of effect of the fireball, its effect is widened as well. Anything else is silly and obnoxious.

Preparation casters much choose which metamagic feats they wish to apply to spells when they prepare them. Spontaneous casters and SLA users must choose which metamagic feats to apply when they cast them. Spontaneous spellcasters don't take longer to cast spells with metamagic feats. That's just silly.

The save DC for your spells is 10 + 1/2 Character Level + Primary Ability Modifier, just like everyone else in the game.

How these interact with SLA users is complicated, because some SLA users will become bonkers, and some won't. Sort if out yourself, or use different feats for SLA users.

Shaped Spell [Metamagic]

Enlarge: You can alter a spell with a range of close, medium, or long to increase its range by 100%. This increases the ML by +1.

Widen: You can alter a burst, emanation, line, or spread shaped spell to increase its area. Any numeric measurements of the spell’s area increase by 100%. This increases the ML by +1.

Sculpt: I'm not allowed to reproduce the text, but you may apply the feat Sculpt Spell to a spell for a ML of +1.


Strong Spell [Metamagic]

Empower: You may choose to increase the potency of your spells by increasing all numerical variable (random) effects by 50%. This increase the ML by +1.

Maximize: You may choose to set all random numerical variable (random) effects of a spell to their maximum values. This increases the ML by +2.


Quicken Spell [Metamagic]

Quicken: You may choose to cast a spell that normally takes a standard action as a swift action, or you may choose to cast a spell that normally takes a full round action as a standard action. The first use increases the ML by +4. The second by +2.

Spell Timing [Metamagic]

Twin: You get two for the price of one. You may choose to have a spell go off twice immediately with the same everything. This increases the ML by +3.

Repeat: You get one now and one later for the price of one. A repeated spell is automatically cast again at the beginning of your next round of actions. No matter where you are, the secondary spell originates from the same location and affects the same area as the primary spell. If the repeated spell designates a target, the secondary spell retargets the same target if the target is within 30 feet of its original position; otherwise the secondary spell fails to go off. This increases the ML by +2.

Delay: You can choose to have a spell go off anywhere from one to five rounds later. The spell must have a target of personal, touch, or an area effect. This increases the ML by +1


Duration Spell [Metamagic]

Extend: You may double the duration of a spell whose duration is not concentration, instantaneous, or permanent. This increases the ML by +1.

Persist: You may increase the duration of a spell one or two steps along the following chart. Each step increases the ML by +3. If the duration of the spell is not on the chart, you cannot improve it in this manner.
2 minutes -> 30 minutes -> 2 hours -> 12 hours -> 24 hours.


Subtle Spell [Metamagic]

Still: You may remove any somatic components from the list of components of a spell. This increases the ML by +1.

Silent: You may remove any verbal components from the list of components of a spell. This increases the ML by +1.

Eschew Materials: You can cast any spell that has a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.


Spell Duration Changes

Spells with a duration of X become spells with a duration of Y.

1/round per level /////////// 2 minutes
1/minute per level /////////// 30 minutes
10/minutes per level /////////// 2 hours
1/hour per level /////////// 12 hours


Doors and Traps and Searching
The Search skill doesn't work. You can't search every five feet, and you can't declare every search.

So any time your PCs are pretty skeptical about their surroundings, they get a search check to find out whatever it is is there. And they get one check per thing to be found, and don't bother rolling for empty places.

Search checks can be taken 10 if your players want to, and they can take 20, but taking 20 isn't passive, and requires them to actively declare it, and spend the extra time.



Tome of Fiends:

0) Sphere ability DCs are now 10 + 1/2 Character level + Cha Mod. The Feat Heighten SLA no longer exists.

1) Fiendish Brute has full BAB.

2) Conduit of the Lower Plane gain intimidate as a class skill.

3) Conduits gain a new ability at level 1 depending on their plane of origin:

Petitioner Channel (Su): The Petitioner may make a ranged touch attack against a single target within close range, they are subject to the effects of a petitioner's plane as follows, with any saving throws being DC 10+Half HD+Cha mod:
  • Pandemonium: A wave of sound does 1d8 damage and forces a Fort Save against Deafening.
  • Abyss: A line of electricity arcs to the target, doing 1d6+Cha damage and arcing to another target within 30ft.
  • Carceri: An Area is coated in Ice. Treat this a Grease Spell cast with CL equal to CL, but doing one cold damage each round to all occupants.
  • Hades: A surge of negative energy does Cha mod damage, and forces a Will save. If failed, they take one Wisdom damage. This is Mind Affecting.
  • Gehenna: A ball of acid strikes doing 2d4 Acid damage, to repeat on the following round unless they spend a full round action removing it.
  • Baator: (No ranged touch attack required) A Gout of flame appears in a square, doing an automatic 1d6 Fire damage to the occupant, and doing the same damage to any adjacent creatures if the fail a reflex save.
  • Archeron: A stream of sharp metal shoots out, doing 2d6+Cha mod slashing damage.
4) At level 5, the Conduit's Sphere ability is replaced with the following ability:

Expert Access: The Conduit gains Expert Access in a single Sphere he already has access to. If he had Advanced Access to this sphere, he gains another sphere at Basic Access.

5) The Conduit becomes a 15 level class and the level 8 Bonus feat gets kicked back to level 13. Replaced at level 8 by Planar Locomotion:

New structure:

8: Planar Locomotion
9: Sphere
10: Magical Training
11: Planar Bubble
12: Sphere
13: Bonus Feat
14: Sphere
15: Planar Apothesis

Planar Locomotion (Su): A Conduit gains a movement ability defined by his plane:
  • Pandemonium: A Conduit of Pandemonium may use Gaseous Form at will as an SLA with CL equal to his character level, with a range of personal. However, he is an area of strong wind, not a cloud for appearance sake, and his DR is 10/- not 10/magic.
  • Abyss: A resident of the Abyss gains a Perfect Fly speed of 30ft per round. If he already has a fly speed, it becomes Perfect Maneuverability and increases in speed by 30ft.
  • Carceri: A Conduit of Carceri may affix themselves relative to another creature as an immediate action. This may be any creature within Close Range. The Conduit will then stay in a fixed position relative to that creature until he uses a swift action to dismiss the effect. While affixed, if the creature moves, he may follow the creatures movement pattern exactly. He is treated as having a Perfect fly speed for the purposes of staying aloft. Additionally, if any magic should cause that creature to move to another location on the current plane, or to send it to another plane, the Conduit may choose to follow to that position or plane. He may only be affixed to a single creature at a time, but otherwise, the duration is permanent.
  • Hades: A Conduit of Hades may become incorporeal for up to 20 rounds per day. It is a free action to begin or end this effect. If it is activated at all, a minimum of one round is expended, regardless of how long it stays active.
  • Gehenna: A Conduit of Gehenna is treated as being under the effect of a Spider Climb spell at all times, except that this is an Extraordinary ability instead of a Supernatural or Spell.
  • Baator: A Conduit of Baator is so in touch with the natural teleporters of his Planar home that he gains Greater Teleport as a bonus feat. If he already has this feat, he may use the ability as a swift action 3 times per day.
  • Archeron: A Conduit of Archeon always operates under subjective directional gravity, no matter what plane he is on.
Planar Bubble (Su):A Conduit may create a location on any Plane that reflects an area of his Plane of Power. He may have no more than one such area active at any time, and the creation of a second removes the first. However, when he dies, the area remains.

This area is in all respects treated as a Planar Bubble, which has all the traits of the Conduit's Plane, and many of the common features, such as fiery explosions of baator or cliffs of gehenna.

This Area may be of a radius of half a mile per day spent creating it. Creating it requires 8 hours of channeling each day, and is so exhausting that it cannot be done if you have engaged in combat during the last 8 hours.

The Maximum Size of the Planar Bubble is a radius of 5 miles per Character Level.

During it's creation, the Bubble expands, deforming and destroying all terrain and replacing it with a replica of the Conduit's Plane and subjecting creatures to the new effects.

If the process is halted by any means, including interruption or combat, it ceases expansion and maintains itself. The next day spent creating the bubble does not increase the radius, but the day after does.

Planar Apotheosis (Ex): The Conduit takes on an aspect of his Plane:
  • Pandemonium: The Conduit cannot be heard by anyone he does not want to hear him. He can also use a swift action to intimidate everyone who hears a very loud noise, the whipping of the winds around him.
  • The Abyss: .......
  • Carceri: The Conduit may prevent Planar Travel by the means of spells, including those that use the Astral such as Teleport, within his line of sight. This ability is either on, and no one can use any such spell, or off, and anyone can use such spells. Switching state requires a free action.
  • Hades: ......
  • Gehenna: A Conduit of Gehenna may....
  • Baator: A Conduit may invoke the right of contract on any agreement he and another make, verbal or written. If he does so, he is compelled to honor the agreement, and he will be notified via magic if the opposing party does not abide by the agreement, at which time, he may use Gate as an SLA at Cl equal to Character level to call a Devil from Baator who will agree to a long term service without payment, so long as that service takes no longer than one day per Character Level and involves the punishment of the deal breaking party. If the Conduit shall break the agreement, then a Balor will attack him and fight to the death in 1d4 days.
  • Acheron: A Conduit of the Plane of Battle is hardened beyond imagination. He gains immunity negative mind affecting effects and he creates a battle aura. The aura gives himself and all allies a +5 Moral Bonus to saving throws and attack rolls.

6) True Fiend gains the following abilities:

6: Fiendish movement
10: Fiendish Senses
12: (Replacement) Sphere is replaced with "Expert Sphere Access" as the Conduit ability.

Fiendish Movement (Su): A Fiend gains a movement ability reflective of it's nature:
  • Baator: Greater Teleport as a bonus Feat.
  • Gehenna: The effects of the Spider Climb spell as an Extraordinary Ability.
  • Abyss: A fly speed of 30ft Perfect, or a 30ft increase to fly speed and Perfect Manueverability.
  • Carceri: Subjective Directional Gravity.
Fiendish Senses (Su): A Fiend gains the sensory abilities of one of it's kind:
  • Baator: True Seeing as the spell always active. CL equal to character level.
  • Gehenna: Tremorsense 60ft, or an increase to current Tremorsense.
  • Abyss: Blindsight 30ft.
  • Carceri: Detect any Planar gateways within 1 mile, and detect all Planar Travel in that area, including Teleportation through the Astral. You know the number of creatures moving, but no other information.
7) The Feats Large Size and Huge Size do longer provide the stat modifiers of increasing size. Instead, they each grant a +4 Str and +2 Con, with no attribute penalties.

Races of War

Before I attempt to tackle RoW errata and Dungeonomicon:

Combat School
You fight under a specific style. Choose a signature weapon set up. Whenever Wielding that weapon or weapons, you gain the benefits of this feat.

6: When you strike your opponent with your signature moves in melee, they must make a Fortitude save DC 10+1/2 level+Half Str mod or be Dazed for one round. This save occurs at the end of the round, and must only be made once per target.

Two Weapon Fighting
You do half Str damage with your off hand, this is just clarification, not change.

Book of Gears

Magic Items

[Complete and total rewrite. Despite having many ideas stolen from Book of Gears, for the purpose of this section, assume that no rules from Book of Gears carry over at all, and this is the last final, and only word on magic items. Unless of course I specifically reference a section.]

Item Levels

Items come in three levels, Minor, Medium, and Major. There is no such things as a Basic item that only provides a bonus or casts a spell. All items have one of those three levels.

Minor items have a base gold piece value for crafting of 4000gp. In game purchases can vary wildly based on perceived value, and should largely be based on DM judgments, ranging +-50% from the base cost.

Medium items have a base gold piece cost of 16,000gp. This makes them a part of the Post wish economy, though it is not unlikely that pre wish creatures will sell or barter such an item if it is not of the type they prefer, or if they don't have access to wish itself, and so use a not particularly special medium item to obtain a large quantity of pre wish goods.

Major items have a gold piece value for crafting of 30,000gp, and are, for all intents and purposes, not sold for gold or pre wish goods at any point.

Item Progression

As a rough estimate that DMs should feel free to vary from at any time, PCs should get their first Minor item at level 2, and one more at each level until level 11, when they should be able to obtain any they wish.

A PC can usually expect to get their first medium item at about level 8, followed by another every other level until level 14, at which point they should gain one each level.

The first Major item for a PC should probably be obtained about level 14, and an additional Major item each level thereafter.

Item Slots

Creatures do not have slots as in the SRD, instead each creature may attune up to eight magic items at any given time.

No more than eight magic items may be attuned at any given time, and no benefits of a magical item are received if an item is not attuned. Potions are the only exception to this rule, for more information, see the potion section.

Items can take any form, and be worn or wielded in different ways, so Amuletor, the Amulet Maker may wear eight Amulets that all provide effects, or an adventurer might wear eight random assortment of clothing items. In any case, it is the number, and not the form that matters.

However, most effects have an iconic form that is easier to craft than others, and proves to be more prevalent for that reason.

Magic Item Types

There are seven types of magic items:

Weapons: Provide a +1/3rd level enhancement bonus to AB and damage with attacks from that weapon, as well as a weapon special ability. These items are attuned merely by wielding them as they are meant to be used, and if they leave your possession, such as by disarm, or being thrown or fired, are no longer attuned as soon as the attack in which they left your hand is resolved. See the Book of Gears for weapon special abilities by item level.

New Minor special ability: Linked: A Weapon can be made up of any number of linked pieces. The scaling bonus and any other effects of the weapon affect all pieces worn by the attuned creature. A Linked Weapon with an additional Minor Ability is a Moderate weapon. A Linked Weapon with an additional Moderate Ability is a Major item.
Special: Linked weapons can come in the form of amulets that infuse all of a targets natural attacks.

Special note: Arrows and Bolts: Arrows provide a 1/3rd level enhancement bonus, but as an enhancement bonus, it does not stack with a bow. Magical arrows are not consumed on use, but instead remain magical and never break, unlike normal arrows. They also provide a special ability when attuned.

A traditional post Wish archer will have a quiver full of different minor magical arrows, and a post wish magical bow, using different arrow effects to match the encounter. Each attack with a Petrification bow firing a Time distortion arrow forces a fort save against turning to stone, and a will save against being slowed for 5 rounds.

This does require two item slots to be committed at all time to weapon effects.

Wondrous Items: Wondrous Items take 15 minutes to attune, and must be worn or possessed on the person for the 15 minutes of attunment. If the item leaves your possession, you lose the benefits of the item, but remain attuned to it for 15 minutes, and it still counts against your eight items for that time.

Wondrous items have a special quality, and provide a +1/3rd level enhancement bonus to one of the following statistics (unless it names another bonus type):

AC (Armor)
AC (Natural Armor)
AC (Deflection)
Any one Ability Score
All saving throws (Resistance bonus)
Caster Level of abilities with CL, or Character level for abilities that provide an effect based on Character level or Levels in a Class (IE, Firemages do more damage, Rogues do not get more SA.) (I strongly suggest perhaps not using this at all, I think it might be too powerful, adds nothing to the game really except CL shenangigans, and doesn't play well with classes made assuming they won't have access to these bonuses, like Firemage. instead try the item below)
All saving throws you cause another creature to make with an Ex, Su, Sp ability or spell.
SR (You must already have SR)
DR (You must already have DR)

EDIT: Instead of CL, perhaps a +2/3rds level bonus to CL only for the purposes of penetrating SR, resisting dispels, and CL on dispel checks?

Instead of the 1/3rd level bonus, it may instead provide:
a +1 per level competence bonus to a skill or ER equal to character level against one energy type (Treat as enhancement bonus if you already have ER of that type.)

For Wondrous item special qualities, refer to the Book of Gears lists, or to the WBL post by Frank Trollman with sorted abilities. DMs are strongly encouraged to come up with their own qualities for items in game as well as pulling from the lists.

Armor: An Armor follows all the same rules as Wondrous items, except that it takes either 15 minutes or the time to fully equip the armor, whichever is longer, to attune the armor. The +1/3rd level enhancement bonus and special quality are in addition to the Tome Armors scaling effects.

Wands: Wands are spellcasting items. They are always minor items, can only cast up to 4th level spells, and have 50 uses of the spell before they become non magic items. You must have the spell on your list, or make a DC 20 UMD check to activate a wand. Doing so is a standard action (if you fail the UMD check, you have still spent the action). Wand Caster level, and DCs are always based on the lowest possible level to cast the spell.

You must spend 15 minutes attuning a wand in order to use it to cast a spell. The Wand stays attuned until all non Permanent spells it has cast have had their durations ended, and you will it to unattune. There is no wait period after these events have occurred for it to become unattuned.

Potions and Oils: Potions and Oils are liquids infused with magic properties. A creature may have up to their Character level in potions or oils effecting them at any given time, further potions have no effect.

Potions mimic the spell effects of any spell of up to 3rd level on a single target. It takes a standard action to activate a potion, by drinking it or applying it to your person. (Or applying it to a willing target. Yes you can apply an oil of Combustion to a helpless enemy.) These do not need to be attuned to benefit or harm a target.

Scrolls: Scrolls mimic any spell effect. They are effectively one time use items that cast a specific spell for you. All scrolls are minor items. Scrolls have the minimum Caster level and DC that a creature could have and still cast the spell in question.

Activating a scroll is a standard action, or as long as the casting time of the spell, whichever is longer. You must either have the spell on your class list, or be able to make a UMD check to activate the scroll.

If you have the spell on your list and a Caster level equal to or greater than the scrolls caster level, you activate the scroll and it has the desired effect.

If you have a lower Caster level than the scroll, you make a Caster level check (1d20+Caster level) against the scrolls Caster level. If you succeed, the scroll activates and has the desired effect. If you fail, you lose the action, and the spell does not take effect. If you fail by 5 or more, the scroll is used up in the misfire, and becomes non magical. If you fail by 10 or more, the Scroll activates in a way harmful to you. IE, Fireballs you, Gates a creature that attacks you, ect.

If you are making a UMD check to activate a scroll, you must make a check against DC 20+Caster level of the scroll+2 per point that your mental stat is below the minimum required to cast that spell. (Each scroll has a primary ability modifier based on what the person who created the scroll used to cast the spell. This is compared against your value of that same stat.) If you fail, you lose the action. If you fail by 5 or more, the scroll is consumed and becomes non magical. If you fail by 10 or more, it activates in a way harmful to you.

Scrolls count as one of your attuned items for as long as the spell cast by the scroll is active, and then for 1d4 minutes afterward. You do not need to attune them in advance, but you must have an unattuned slot to place their effect in to activate them.

Staffs: Staffs are magical spellcasting items that don't run out, unlike wands and scrolls. A minor staff has 15 daily charges and can only hold up to 3rd level spells. A medium staff has 30 daily charges and can only hold up to 7th level spells. A Major staff has 60 daily charges and can hold any spell level up to 9th.

Staffs may have multiple spells attuned in them, but each additional spell reduces daily charges by 2.

A Staff requires a standard action to activate the spell effect, and consumes a number of charges equal to the spell level of the spell used. You must also have a character level greater than double the spell level, minus one, in order to activate that particular spell.

The staff casts at the Caster level and DC minimum needed to cast the spell, however, if you are capable of making a UMD check for a higher Caster Level as per the scroll activation, or if you have a Caster level and DC yourself in a class with that spell on your list, you may use that instead.

Some spells are not suitable to staffs, such as spells with a permanent duration, or spells requiring long cast times. Spells with one full round or one standard action casting times and non permanent durations are always able to fit in staffs, whereas other spells must first be confirmed with the DM.

Staffs count as one of your eight items, and they are attuned to you instantly just from wielding, like Weapons and stop being attuned as soon as all spells cast from the staff end. But while attuned you can use them as much as you want to cast the spells from them, until they run out of charges.

Magical Items That Cast Spells But Are Not Potions, Wands, Scrolls or Staffs:

Magical items that cast spells but are not potions, wands, scrolls or staffs and actually just potions, wands, scrolls or staffs. No other types of magic spellcasting items exist. The staff, potion, scroll and wand are merely the iconic form of the item, but for example, a Ring of invisibility is merely a staff in the form of a ring, that has the invisibility spell in it. In this case, you must still wield the ring (though this is easier than wielding a staff in most cases) and use a standard action to cast the spell.

Crafting Magic Items

To come, mostly after I've reread the stuff F&K already wrote and decided what I want to steal.

Tome of Tiamat

Knowledge rules: Yes, we know they suck. Here are some more explicit ones:

Knowledge identifies monsters. It also identifies unique character abilities that are not spells or SLAs (these are governed by spellcraft).

When identifying a monster, you must either see the monster, be interacting with one of it's special attacks or qualities, or you must have a good description of the monster, or some of it's special attacks or qualities. If you are trying to identify the monster from a special attack or quality, you must exceed the Base DC by 10 to be able to differentiate this special attack or quality from that of other similar monsters. If you are operating from a description, you must first identify creature with a DC equal to the base DC increased by 2-10 points, depending on the quality of the description. (Telepathic contact with someone observing the creature is a +2, A limited description of the monster by a terrified commoner is +10). Then subsequently you make a knowledge check to determine what you recall about the base monster.

The Base DC is 10 + the CR of the base monster. If you make the base DC, you gain knowledge of base monsters type, sub types, size, and name. For each point you exceed the Base DC you gain knowledge of additional features in this order:

1) Alignment
2) All Movement modes
3) Special attacks, Left to Right other than SLAs
4) Special qualities, Left to Right
5) The combat section description of standard tactics.
6) Full attack routine
7) AC Line
8) Saving throws, all three.
9) SLAs, starting from at wills with highest spell level, moving towards lower levels, then repeating for fewer uses. Each point gives all SLAs at that spell level.

If you exceed the DC by 20, you may look at the Monsters entry for the base monster.

If the monster has any templates, treat them separately from the base monster. First, add the CR increase from all the templates, then have the PC roll against a Base DC of 15+2XCR increase. Use the knowledge category of the the creatures final type if they templates would be different knowledge categories. If the Base DC is exceeded, then start giving PCs knowledge off the list for each point it is exceeded. If the Base DC is exceeded by 20, then provide all the template information.

No knowledge check grants knowledge of changed feat combinations, or other effects.

When dealing with class abilities or PrCs, knowledge checks trigger when you see an ability used, interact with an ability, or have a description of an ability being used. The DC to know of an ability is 15+the minimum CR that a character could have that ability by. When you roll. If you identify and ability correctly, as belonging to members of a class or PrC, you are aware of any other abilities members of that PrC may have that are under your check result.

For example, Haggar the Glabrezu Phrenic Half Dragon with a level in Fiend of Possession.

There are many ways you might find out about him, for example, being possessed, or noticing someone else's possession, or hearing about him.

But if hypothetically you saw him, you could roll two knowledge checks.

The Base DC of each would be 23 for the Glabrezu, and DC 25 for Phrenic Half Dragon.

A result of of 37 for each check would result in knowing fourteen things about the Glabrezu:

0) Glabrezu: Huge Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)
1) Always Chaotic Evil
2) 40ft land only
3) Improved Grab
4) Summon Demon
5) Damage Reduction 10/good
6) 60ft Darkvision
7) Immunity to Elec and Poison
8) Resistances to Acid/Cold/Fire 10
9) SR 21
10) Telepathy 100ft
11) True Seeing
12) "Glabrezu prefer subterfuge to combat. However, if their attempts to entice or deceive fail, these enormous demons attack with a vengeance. They follow a confusion attack with melee attacks, hoping to finish off wounded foes with chaos hammer or unholy blight. A glabrezu’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as chaotic-aligned and evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."
13) two Pincers, two claws, bite (numbers too)
14) -2 size, +19 natural
15) Fort +18, Ref +8, Will +11
16) Reverse Gravity, Greater Teleport (at will)
17) Confusion, Unholy Blight, Chaos Hammer (at will)

Then for the result on his templates 15 things:

0) Dragon (Psionic)
1) 80ft fly speed, Average maneuverability
2) Breath weapon
3) Immunity to Sleep and Paralysis
4) Naturally Psionic
5) Power Resistance 10+HD.
6) +4 Natural Armor
7) Intellect Fortress 3/day
8) Empty Mind, Mind Thrust 3/day
9) Defensive Precognition 3/day
10) Psionic Dominate 1/day
11) Psychic Crush 1/day
12) Aversion, Psionic Blast 1/day
13) Body Adjustment, Brain Lock 1/day
14) Force Screen 1/day
15) That's it. Sorry.

Additionally, if he where to go ethereal in front of you, you would be able to make a knowledge check against a DC of 19 to figure out the etherealness came from a Fiend of Possession, and if you rolled at 25 or higher, you would know the entire Fiend of Possession class, and be aware of the possibility of the creature having those abilities.
Last edited by Kaelik on Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:07 pm, edited 37 times in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
schpeelah
Knight-Baron
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:38 pm

Post by schpeelah »

Darn, and there I thought it was going to be actual clarifications from Frank collected in one place and not somebody's houserules to Tome houserules.

Anyway, the following is what I racall Frank said on the matter.
IE, TWFing + Whirlwind two attacks? yes no?
No.
TWFing, any penalties?

TWFing, Strength damage or 1/2 strength damage?
No attack penalties for TWF, all other rules (like 1/2 Str to off hand) still apply.
Combat School: What constitutes a fighting method?
"I hit you with the School's favored weapon". One save per person struck per round at the end of round.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

I saw a Tome errata project, and *click* Kaelik goes of ignore. FUCK YOU KAELIK, it's not nice to exploit a person's weaknesses like that.

Kaelik wrote:IE, TWFing + Whirlwind two attacks? yes no?
As written, no; as intended, IIRC Frank said yes (this should be in the errata).
Kaelik wrote:TWFing, any penalties?
Not as Frank defines "penalties", assuming you mean the feat.
Kaelik wrote:TWFing, Strength damage or 1/2 strength damage?
Half with the off-hand. That's from the horse's mouth.
Kaelik wrote:Monk full attacks someone. Do they try to make eight saves versus death? Or only one?
8 saves, assuming the BAB 16+ monk is using a weapon-allowing style and TWFing without extra natural attacks, or a normal slam fighting style that forces two saves per attack.

Another issue with TWFing that needs addressing is interacting with multiple arms--specifically fighting with 3+ weapons and fighting with a two-handed weapon wielded in two 'off hands'.

Anyway, speaking of the balance of Dungeonomicon classes, it's been consensus since the Thief Acrobat appeared that it's underpowered relative to the other 'rogue-likes'. I propose full BAB as the most straightforward solution.

Having seen the Assassin in action next to other Tome classes, I don't think it's under powered. That said, skill feats are needed (although many have been written).

As far as Tome of Fiends classes go, the Fiendish Brute isn't really supposed to be taking scaling feats--she should be grabbing fiend feats, something she is quite good at.

The Conduit is very good as is, and makes for a rather front-loaded multiclass. If I were to change it, I'd first put the spheres at even levels rather than odd levels. Then give it something like your eldritch at 1st. this gets rid of the theoretical multiclass problem and the 'weak at 1st' problem in one fell swoop.

Your True Fiend Carceri movement might make more sense as a nice burrowing ability rather than the (admittedly quite cool) alternate method of flight.

Everything else I've seen looks great.
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

schpeelah wrote:Darn, and there I thought it was going to be actual clarifications from Frank collected in one place and not somebody's houserules to Tome houserules.
I'm going to try to incorporate those as much as possible, but this project exists as much to address imbalances that I see affecting the Tomes as it is to correct the usual suspects of Combat School ect, regarding wtf that actually does.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Anyway, speaking of the balance of Dungeonomicon classes, it's been consensus since the Thief Acrobat appeared that it's underpowered relative to the other 'rogue-likes'. I propose full BAB as the most straightforward solution.
I'm not as familiar with the Thief Acrobat as I am the other classes, but that was my impression, and we'll see how I can fix it after I look at it more.
CatharzGodfoot wrote:Having seen the Assassin in action next to other Tome classes, I don't think it's under powered. That said, skill feats are needed (although many have been written).
It's not terribly underpowered, but it is noticeably less good. I'm hoping that skill feats that fit with Assassins and the new metamagic feats will be enough.
CatharzGodfoot wrote:As far as Tome of Fiends classes go, the Fiendish Brute isn't really supposed to be taking scaling feats--she should be grabbing fiend feats, something she is quite good at.
Except that he still needs the BAB for afterword/multiclassing, since the point is to actually be a real class both in combination with others and at levels 11+, when he gets to start trying to not suck in high level play, and has no good multiclasses.
CatharzGodfoot wrote:The Conduit is very good as is, and makes for a rather front-loaded multiclass. If I were to change it, I'd first put the spheres at even levels rather than odd levels. Then give it something like your eldritch at 1st. this gets rid of the theoretical multiclass problem and the 'weak at 1st' problem in one fell swoop.
It's not really a multiclass at all, since the attack never scales. It's just making them a better level 1 class than anyone else, instead of a worse level 1 class than everyone else.

It's possible that I could rework to spheres at even levels, and I'll see what I can manage, but it's a lot of work, and the payoff may be a worse designed class at every level that isn't one, and so not worth it.
CatharzGodfoot wrote:Your True Fiend Carceri movement might make more sense as a nice burrowing ability rather than the (admittedly quite cool) alternate method of flight.
Yeah, I don't know. My concern is mostly not making the Stone Sphere shitty for people from Carceri, since it seems like a good fit for them.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Kaelik wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:As far as Tome of Fiends classes go, the Fiendish Brute isn't really supposed to be taking scaling feats--she should be grabbing fiend feats, something she is quite good at.
Except that he still needs the BAB for afterword/multiclassing, since the point is to actually be a real class both in combination with others and at levels 11+, when he gets to start trying to not suck in high level play, and has no good multiclasses.
Multiclassing is an issue, although there are a number of options that don't rely on base attack (e.g. True Fiend and Conduit). If possible I'd like to see the class keep the poor BAB, both for aesthetic reasons and to make it less trouble as an NPC class.
Kaelik wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:The Conduit is very good as is, and makes for a rather front-loaded multiclass. If I were to change it, I'd first put the spheres at even levels rather than odd levels. Then give it something like your eldritch at 1st. this gets rid of the theoretical multiclass problem and the 'weak at 1st' problem in one fell swoop.
It's not really a multiclass at all, since the attack never scales. It's just making them a better level 1 class than anyone else, instead of a worse level 1 class than everyone else.

It's possible that I could rework to spheres at even levels, and I'll see what I can manage, but it's a lot of work, and the payoff may be a worse designed class at every level that isn't one, and so not worth it.
Right. Your fix addresses shittiness at 1st level, but not multiclassing issues. You could, however, fix both problems at once with a similar solution. That's what I'm proposing.

As far as cost/benefit analysis goes...well, that's the problem with trying to improve on something that's already quite good rather than simply fixing what needs it.
Kaelik wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:Your True Fiend Carceri movement might make more sense as a nice burrowing ability rather than the (admittedly quite cool) alternate method of flight.
Yeah, I don't know. My concern is mostly not making the Stone Sphere shitty for people from Carceri, since it seems like a good fit for them.
That's fair. The Stone sphere is another thing in need of errata. The advantage of burrowing is that others can follow, but there's still a great deal of overlap. Remember, though, that fiendish classes and powers already admit a large degree of overlap.
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Right. Your fix addresses shittiness at 1st level, but not multiclassing issues. You could, however, fix both problems at once with a similar solution. That's what I'm proposing.
What multiclassing problem?

There was no multiclassing problem. Only that they were too weak at level 1.
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Kaelik wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:Right. Your fix addresses shittiness at 1st level, but not multiclassing issues. You could, however, fix both problems at once with a similar solution. That's what I'm proposing.
What multiclassing problem?

There was no multiclassing problem. Only that they were too weak at level 1.
Say you want to make another class using the conduit as a model. Let's call it the 'Initiate of the Nine Circles' (Iot9S). At 1st level you grant a sphere, at second some dumb bonus feat, and so forth.

Iot9S is now pretty much a requisite multiclass for conduits, because a one level dip will grant more bang for their buck than just about anything else. The reverse also applies. Each time you create a new class on the Conduit chassis, the problem gets worse.

Plus, some spheres just suck at low levels. The Bone sphere is a thing of beauty, but a low-level conduit with no damaging spell-likes is screwed if she was foolish enough to take it (something your fix doesn't fix, but only because the eldritch blast is supernatural).

The best solution is to never create that precedent.
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Say you want to make another class using the conduit as a model. Let's call it the 'Initiate of the Nine Circles' (Iot9S). At 1st level you grant a sphere, at second some dumb bonus feat, and so forth.

Iot9S is now pretty much a requisite multiclass for conduits, because a one level dip will grant more bang for their buck than just about anything else. The reverse also applies. Each time you create a new class on the Conduit chassis, the problem gets worse.

Plus, some spheres just suck at low levels. The Bone sphere is a thing of beauty, but a low-level conduit with no damaging spell-likes is screwed if she was foolish enough to take it (something your fix doesn't fix, but only because the eldritch blast is supernatural).

The best solution is to never create that precedent.
1) The Bone Sphere is the Worst Sphere in the fucking game and adds nothing worth having to the game at all. It is literally the perfect example of the shittiest Sphere you could ever have.

2) Planar Channel is a Su ability half because of that stupid bullshit ass Sphere.

3) Your solution to Spheres being good is to just declare that Sphere based classes just can't have any spheres?

How about you make classes that can't multiclass with Conduit.

IE "A Warlock is a non Fiend who gets power from them."

"A Celestial Conduit channels a good Plane, and does not channel an evil Plane"

ect.

That seems like a lot better idea than declaring that Sphere based classes aren't allowed to have Spheres.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Kaelik wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:Say you want to make another class using the conduit as a model. Let's call it the 'Initiate of the Nine Circles' (Iot9S). At 1st level you grant a sphere, at second some dumb bonus feat, and so forth.

Iot9S is now pretty much a requisite multiclass for conduits, because a one level dip will grant more bang for their buck than just about anything else. The reverse also applies. Each time you create a new class on the Conduit chassis, the problem gets worse.

Plus, some spheres just suck at low levels. The Bone sphere is a thing of beauty, but a low-level conduit with no damaging spell-likes is screwed if she was foolish enough to take it (something your fix doesn't fix, but only because the eldritch blast is supernatural).

The best solution is to never create that precedent.
1) The Bone Sphere is the Worst Sphere in the fucking game and adds nothing worth having to the game at all. It is literally the perfect example of the shittiest Sphere you could ever have.

2) Planar Channel is a Su ability half because of that stupid bullshit ass Sphere.
Alright, let's defer our argument over the bone sphere to a later point.
Kaelik wrote:3) Your solution to Spheres being good is to just declare that Sphere based classes just can't have any spheres?
No, my solution is to declare that sphere based classes should have to 'pay' at least two levels per sphere.
Kaelik wrote:How about you make classes that can't multiclass with Conduit.

IE "A Warlock is a non Fiend who gets power from them."

"A Celestial Conduit channels a good Plane, and does not channel an evil Plane"

ect.

That seems like a lot better idea than declaring that Sphere based classes aren't allowed to have Spheres.
That is an option. However, its main advantage seems to be keeping the Conduit exactly as-is (something which you are altering anyway). The advantage of creating conduits that can freely multiclass is that the game doesn't explode when somebody decides to play a fiendish dracolyte or some emo bitch that channels both the upper and lower planes.

3e is designed to be a system of free multiclassing. Why would you actively try to work against that?
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

CatharzGodfoot wrote:No, my solution is to declare that sphere based classes should have to 'pay' at least two levels per sphere.
And my solution is to have a level 1 sphere using class have spheres, because otherwise, they might as well take a level in Commoner.
CatharzGodfoot wrote:That is an option. However, its main advantage seems to be keeping the Conduit exactly as-is (something which you are altering anyway). The advantage of creating conduits that can freely multiclass is that the game doesn't explode when somebody decides to play a fiendish dracolyte or some emo bitch that channels both the upper and lower planes.

3e is designed to be a system of free multiclassing. Why would you actively try to work against that?
I would do that to instead allow sphere based classes to have spheres.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Kaelik wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:No, my solution is to declare that sphere based classes should have to 'pay' at least two levels per sphere.
And my solution is to have a level 1 sphere using class have spheres, because otherwise, they might as well take a level in Commoner.
CatharzGodfoot wrote:That is an option. However, its main advantage seems to be keeping the Conduit exactly as-is (something which you are altering anyway). The advantage of creating conduits that can freely multiclass is that the game doesn't explode when somebody decides to play a fiendish dracolyte or some emo bitch that channels both the upper and lower planes.

3e is designed to be a system of free multiclassing. Why would you actively try to work against that?
I would do that to instead allow sphere based classes to have spheres.
I'm not really sure how to respond without insulting you. Do you see why using such an obviously straw argument to attack makes you look stupid?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Carthaz, it's not a strawman if it's your explicit argument.

You don't want level 1 Sphere using classes to have Spheres, you want them to wait till level 2.

I want them to have it at level 1, because I think telling a Wizard he can't cast Color Spray until level 2 is fucking stupid.

You think that the level 1 ability of a class should be determined by how much a level 9 character multiclassing into it gains.

I think that the level 1 abilities of a class should be determined by having that character do what it's supposed to do at level 1.
Last edited by Kaelik on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Kaelik wrote:Carthaz, it's not a strawman if it's your explicit argument.

You don't want level 1 Sphere using classes to have Spheres, you want them to wait till level 2.

I want them to have it at level 1, because I think telling a Wizard he can't cast Color Spray until level 2 is fucking stupid.

You think that the level 1 ability of a class should be determined by how much a level 9 character multiclassing into it gains.

I think that the level 1 abilities of a class should be determined by having that character do what it's supposed to do at level 1.
A sphere at level 1 is basically nothing. That's the whole problem you were arguing with 1st level conduits: you get a single spell-like ability once per day and a random "flavor ability" like the fire subtype. It's not equivalent to denying a wizard her 1st level spell slots. The 1st level wizard has 2 or more slots that are filled each day from 6 or more unique powers.

And I'm not talking about 9th level multiclassing. I'm talking about multiclassing at any level.
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Carthaz Conduit
"My powers are more than enough to deal with the likes of you!"

A fiend is more than an individual; he is a representative of a particular brand of evil, and that role carries power with it. To become a Conduit of the Lower Planes is to embrace that role and become a living pathway by which the energies of the Lower Planes can be made manifest. Raw magical power is the result of this process, and a fiend that walks this route refines his mastery of his innate mystical arts to a terrible degree.

Alignment: A character must be non-good to take any levels in Conduit of the Lower Planes. Nothing happens to a Conduit of the Lower Planes if he becomes Good, save that he must look elsewhere for class advancing.

Races: The Conduit of the Lower Planes is only available to creatures with a plane of origin in the Lower Planes. Creatures from the prime material plane whose ancestors were from a Lower Plane may take this class.

Starting Gold: 4d4x10 gp (100 gold)

Starting Age: As Wizard.

Hit Die: d6
Class Skills: The Conduit of the Lower Planes 's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal(Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skills/Level: 2 + Intelligence Bonus
BAB: Medium (3/4), Saves: Fort: Poor; Reflex: Poor; Will: Good

Level, Benefit
1Petitioner Immunities, Petitioner Channel
2 Sphere
3 Enhanced Sphere Access
4 Sphere
5 Expert Sphere Access
6 Sphere
7 Petitioner Skills, Petitioner Locomotion
8 Sphere
9 Bonus Feat (Magical Training? Yes/no?)
10 Sphere
11 Planar Bubble
12 Sphere
13 Bonus Feat
14 Sphere
15 Planar Apotheosis

All of the following are Class Features of the Conduit of the Lower Planes class:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Conduits of the Lower Planes are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as the whip, the scourge, and the dire flail. Conduits are proficient with light armor but not with shields of any kind.

Petitioner Channel (Su): The Petitioner may make a ranged touch attack against a single target within close range, they are subject to the effects of a petioners plane as follows, with any saving throws being DC 10+Half HD+Cha mod:
  • Pandemonium: A wave of sound does 1d8 damage and forces a Fort Save against Deafening.
  • Abyss: A line of electricity arcs to the target, doing 1d6+Cha damage and arcing to another target within 30ft.
  • Carceri: An Area is coated in Ice. Treat this a Grease Spell cast with CL equal to CL, but doing one cold damage each round to all occupants.
  • Hades: A surge of negative energy does Cha mod damage, and forces a Will save. If failed, they take one Wisdom damage. This is Mind Affecting.
  • Gehenna: A ball of acid strikes doing 2d4 Acid damage, to repeat on the following round unless they spend a full round action removing it.
  • Baator: (No ranged touch attack required) A Gout of flame appears in a square, doing an automatic 1d6 Fire damage to the occupant, and doing the same damage to any adjacent creatures if the fail a reflex save.
  • Archeron: A stream of sharp metal shoots out, doing 2d6+Cha mod slashing damage.
Petitioner Immunities: A Conduit of the Lower Planes gains his power from a specific lower plane, and is protected by the nature of that plane:
  • Pandemonium: Sonic Immunity
  • The Abyss: Immunity to Electricity
  • Carceri: Immunity to Cold
  • Hades: Immunity to Fear and Morale Effects.
  • Gehenna: Immunity to Acid
  • Baator: Immunity to Fire
  • Acheron: Immunity to [Compulsion] effects.
Sphere: The Conduit of the Lower Planes gains basic access to a sphere at every even numbered level. If the Conduit of the Lower Planes selects a sphere that he already has basic access to, he upgrades it to advanced access. If he already had advanced access, he gains expert access.

Enhanced Sphere Access: At 3rd level, the Conduit of the Lower Planes gains extra uses of the spell-like abilities that he gains from his Spheres. The Conduit of the Lower Planes gains a number of extra uses of any spell-like ability equal to half the number his character level exceeds the minimum character level to use the spell-like ability (rounded up). So if the Conduit of the Lower Planes has a character level of 4, he would gain 1 extra use of a spell-like ability that is granted by one of his spheres at character level 3 and 2 extra uses of any spell-like from one of his spheres with a minimum level of 1. Upon gaining this ability, the Conduit of the Lower Planes immediately gains a number of extra feats that must all have the [Fiend] tag equal to the number of spheres he has expert access to. If he ever gains expert access to another sphere, he also gains an extra [Fiend] feat.

Expert Access: At level 5 The Conduit gains Expert Access in a single Sphere he already has access to. If he had Advanced Access to this sphere, he gains another sphere at Basic Access.

Petitioner Skills: A Conduit of the Lower Planes gains his power from a specific lower plane, and at 6th level gains abilities from the nature of that plane (this must be the same plane as was chosen at 1st level):
  • Pandemonium: +10 to Listen checks.
  • The Abyss: +10 bonus to Survival checks.
  • Carceri: +10 bonus to Bluff checks.
  • Hades: +10 bonus to Hide checks.
  • Gehenna: +10 bonus to Climb checks, if he doesn't already have a climb speed, he gains one equal to half his normal ground speed (bonuses to Climb from having a Climb speed gained in this way would be included in the +10 bonus)
  • Baator: +10 bonus to Disguise checks.
  • Acheron: +10 bonus to Intimidate checks.
Planar Locomotion (Su):At 6th level a Conduit gains a movement ability defined by his plane:
  • Pandemonium: A Conduit of Pandemonium may use Gaseous Form at will as an SLA with CL equal to his character level, with a range of personal. However, he is an area of strong wind, not a cloud for appearance sake, and his DR is 10/- not 10/magic.
  • Abyss: A resident of the Abyss gains a Perfect Fly speed of 30ft per round. If he already has a fly speed, it becomes Perfect Maneuverability and increases in speed by 30ft.
  • Carceri: A Conduit of Carceri may affix themselves relative to another creature as an immediate action. This may be any creature within Close Range. The Conduit will then stay in a fixed position relative to that creature until he uses a swift action to dismiss the effect. While affixed, if the creature moves, he may follow the creatures movement pattern exactly. He is treated as having a Perfect fly speed for the purposes of staying aloft. Additionally, if any magic should cause that creature to move to another location on the current plane, or to send it to another plane, the Conduit may choose to follow to that position or plane. He may only be affixed to a single creature at a time, but otherwise, the duration is permanent.
  • Hades: A Conduit of Hades may become incorporeal for up to 20 rounds per day. It is a free action to begin or end this effect. If it is activated at all, a minimum of one round is expended, regardless of how long it stays active.
  • Gehenna (Ex): A Conduit of Gehenna is treated as being under the effect of a Spider Climb spell at all times, except that this is an Extraordinary ability instead of a Supernatural or Spell. He also gains a burrow speed equal to his land speed.
  • Baator: A Conduit of Baator is so in touch with the natural teleporters of his Planar home that he gains Greater Teleport as a bonus feat. If he already has this feat, he may use the ability as a swift action 3 times per day.
  • Archeron: A Conduit of Archeon always operates under subjective directional gravity, no matter what plane he is on.
Bonus Feat: At 9th level, the Conduit of the Lower Planes gains a bonus feat. This feat may be any [Fiend], [Monstrous], or [Item Creation] feat, and the Conduit of the Lower Planes must meet the prerequisites. He gains another such feat at level 13.

Planar Bubble (Su):A Conduit may create a location on any Plane that reflects an area of his Plane of Power. He may have no more than one such area active at any time, and the creation of a second removes the first. However, when he dies, the area remains.

This area is in all respects treated as a Planar Bubble, which has all the traits of the Conduit's Plane, and many of the common features, such as fiery explosions of baator or cliffs of gehenna.

This Area may be of a radius of half a mile per day spent creating it. Creating it requires 8 hours of channeling each day, and is so exhausting that it cannot be done if you have engaged in combat during the last 8 hours. The Maximum Size of the Planar Bubble is a radius of 5 miles per Character Level.

During it's creation, the Bubble expands, deforming and destroying all terrain and replacing it with a replica of the Conduit's Plane and subjecting creatures to the new effects.

If the process is halted by any means, including interruption or combat, it ceases expansion and maintains itself. The next day spent creating the bubble does not increase the radius, but the day after does.

Planar Apotheosis (Ex): The Conduit takes on an aspect of his Plane:
  • Pandemonium: The Conduit cannot be heard by anyone he does not want to hear him. He can also use a swift action to intimidate everyone who hears a very loud noise, the whipping of the winds around him.
  • The Abyss: .......
  • Carceri: The Conduit may prevent Planar Travel by the means of spells, including those that use the Astral such as Teleport, within his line of sight. This ability is either on, and no one can use any such spell, or off, and anyone can use such spells. Switching state requires a free action.
  • Hades: ......
  • Gehenna: A Conduit of Gehenna may....
  • Baator: A Conduit may invoke the right of contract on any agreement he and another make, verbal or written. If he does so, he is compelled to honor the agreement, and he will be notified via magic if the opposing party does not abide by the agreement, at which time, he may use Gate as an SLA at Cl equal to Character level to call a Devil from Baator who will agree to a long term service without payment, so long as that service takes no longer than one day per Character Level and involves the punishment of the deal breaking party. If the Conduit shall break the agreement, then a Balor will attack him and fight to the death in 1d4 days.
  • Acheron: A Conduit of the Plane of Battle is hardened beyond imagination. He gains immunity negative mind affecting effects and he creates a battle aura. The aura gives himself and all allies a +5 Moral Bonus to saving throws and attack rolls.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Red_Rob
Prince
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:07 pm

Post by Red_Rob »

Some quotes from Frank regarding TWF and Combat school, both intent and wording:
FrankTrollman wrote: as written the feat doesn't even let you fight with two one-handed weapons without penalty - just with an off-hand light weapon without penalty. While I personally let people use two scimitars if that's what they want to do, you're well within your rights to hit them with a -2 penalty to all their attacks for doing that.
FrankTrollman wrote:Whirlwind was intended to function with TWF at the rate of one attack with each weapon on each opponent. But hey, Combat School was intended to force the target to make one save versus Dazing at the end of the round if they were struck.
FrankTrollman wrote:if anything related to TWF is called a "penalty" then you can ignore it. Also you get your full standard number of attacks with your off hand. Again, that's it.

I never recalled having TWF mention getting to use full sized weapons in both hands without penalty. And indeed, it doesn't mention that one way or the other. But to be aggressively literal, that is technically a penalty for using a weapon in your off hand. So go ahead and use two scimitars. Literally read, it totally fucking does that.

But you know what? Adding half your strength bonus to your damage is not a fucking penalty. It's a bonus. Aggressively literal reading: you get half your Strength mod with the offhand attacks.
Last edited by Red_Rob on Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Korwin
Duke
Posts: 2055
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:49 am
Location: Linz / Austria

Re: Comprehensive Tome Errata

Post by Korwin »

Kaelik wrote: 0) Sphere ability DCs are now 1/2 Character level + Cha Mod. The Feat Heighten SLA no longer exists.
I think there is an "10 +" missing.
Red_Rob
Prince
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:07 pm

Post by Red_Rob »

Would it cause a problem to add a few other scaling benefits to the list? My players have asked about:
Insight bonus to Initiative
Bonus to Damage Reduction (Choose B/P/S penetrates)
Or does this lead to stackabonus madness?
Simplified Tome Armor.

Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.

“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6339
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

Adding new bonus types, like insight, to any stat will lead to madness. You should still be able to enhance your bonus to initiative, however. It just needs to be an enhancement bonus.

In regards to an enhancement bonus to DR, I'm not sure what happens if you don't have DR to be enhanced; you should get DR equal to the bonus, but the type that penetrates it would likely be X/magic.
Last edited by virgil on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17345
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

well, I like what Koumei did in her social combat rules, have ranks in Sense Motive contribute to your social initiative, maybe do that for combat initiative, Spot?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Red_Rob
Prince
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:07 pm

Post by Red_Rob »

Okay, so I'll make it an enhancement bonus and it should be good to go.

Prak, I'm torn on allowing Spot to add to initiative. Spot is already a very useful skill and I'm a little wary of adding more stuff for it to do, however I had considered adding some combat manuevers based off social skills. We already have Feint from Bluff and I noticed in Bo9S a "stare down" mechanic using Intimidate or Concentrate to give an enemy penalties to hit you.

Hmmm. :uptosomething:
Simplified Tome Armor.

Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.

“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14786
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Did some cursory Races of War errata and a fair amount of work on the item rules, still curious if Trip is supposed to have a size modifier based on the Giant Slayer feat, haven't resolved that.

Anyone have any issues they think need work?

Any comments on the revised item section?
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
For Valor
Knight-Baron
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:31 pm

Post by For Valor »

Question:

Whirlwind Attack + Ranged Weapon = Attack everyone within a 100 ft radius once? Isn't that a little ridiculous?
Mask wrote:And for the love of all that is good and unholy, just get a fucking hippogrif mount and pretend its a flying worg.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

For Valor wrote:Question:

Whirlwind Attack + Ranged Weapon = Attack everyone within a 100 ft radius once? Isn't that a little ridiculous?
Ranged weapons have range, not reach.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
For Valor
Knight-Baron
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:31 pm

Post by For Valor »

O I C

I remember seeing a motivational somewhere on here called "Whirlwind Attack: Who Says you can't Use it with Ranged Weapons?"

I guess that kinda threw me off. So you can't whirlwind attack w/a ranged weapon then? Like, at all?
Mask wrote:And for the love of all that is good and unholy, just get a fucking hippogrif mount and pretend its a flying worg.
Post Reply