Larp. (specifically Amtgard)

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Prak
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Larp. (specifically Amtgard)

Post by Prak »

So, I know larpers get a lot of crap. But these webcomics make it look pretty damn fun, and having done the "hit people with padded sticks" part at an Amtgard demo at my college, it seems like it really is a lot of fun.

Anyone here have experience?
Last edited by Prak on Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by RiotGearEpsilon »

I did it when I was in high school. I had a good time but there were some weirdos there and eventually I stopped going because I didn't feel comfortable.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Yeah for several years I played in a variant of Treasure Trap. It was a lot of fun. I know a girl who loved Darkon for years too.

Fuck what people say man, if it appeals and it's fun, do it. You already play RPGs...
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Post by RiotGearEpsilon »

I still fondly remember my skirmish rush up the side of a hill to outflank the enemy and shank three of them with my spear before they understood what was happening. I died like a hero. truestory.jpg
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Post by tzor »

Never LARPED. (Really, isn't hitting people with padded sticks SCA?) Almost got into a vampire LARP at a local con but the whole goup was so full of fail that it collapsed even before the game began. I was like the third person for the session and there was only four players in total including the NPC's, so it never happened.
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Post by TheFlatline »

tzor wrote:Never LARPED. (Really, isn't hitting people with padded sticks SCA?) Almost got into a vampire LARP at a local con but the whole goup was so full of fail that it collapsed even before the game began. I was like the third person for the session and there was only four players in total including the NPC's, so it never happened.
SCA uses live steel more often than LARP does.
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Post by violence in the media »

SCA sticks are 1.25" diameter (minimum) rattan wrapped in a layer or two of duct tape.

Amtgard (and NERO, etc) use weapons with a PVC, graphite rod, or (occassionally) bamboo core and fun noodles or camp foam padding for the striking surfaces.
Last edited by violence in the media on Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by sabs »

SCA is beating people up with Rattan sticks, Amtgard/Nero is hitting people with foam swords. Completely different. Rattan weapons freaking hurt if you don't have nicely padded armor.
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

Did Amtgard briefly in high school. It's great exercise if it's done in the right venue. Play an assassin and then just run around looking for someone who isn't paying attention. I killed three stone-skinned druids that way, doing a driveby while they were smoking.
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Post by TheFlatline »

violence in the media wrote:SCA sticks are 1.25" diameter (minimum) rattan wrapped in a layer or two of duct tape.

Amtgard (and NERO, etc) use weapons with a PVC, graphite rod, or (occassionally) bamboo core and fun noodles or camp foam padding for the striking surfaces.
I used to make my weapons with a graphite core and the same closed-cell foam that they use for prosthetic padding since it took forever to actually break down. Glued it into a rough block, carved it to shape, latex outside, painted, finished, so it looked like a cartoon version of a real sword.

It hit a little harder than a pool noodle wrapped PVC pipe, but not hard enough to make a difference, and it didn't look so gimpy, and as a bonus they'd last a year or two of semi-heavy use.

If I got into it more I would have moved up to weapon molds and cast my own foam, but the game fell apart at that point.
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Post by Ravengm »

The only experience I have with Amtgard is with some of the people that came to our petered-down version at college where we said "screw the rules, we have padded sticks" and just played games trying to hit each other.

That said, the people who showed up from Amtgard were total douches. That's probably not representative of the society, but it put a sour taste in my mouth about it. They had the mentality of "hit people as hard as you fucking can" instead of "hit hard enough that they'll feel it", wouldn't call shots on themselves ever, asked to change the weapon safety rules (noble in thought) and then told everyone their weapons were instantly illegal even though there wasn't any change made, and probably some other stuff I can't even remember.
Random thing I saw on Facebook wrote:Just make sure to compare your results from Weapon Bracket Table and Elevator Load Composition (Dragon Magazine #12) to the Perfunctory Armor Glossary, Version 3.8 (Races of Minneapolis, pp. 183). Then use your result as input to the "DM Says Screw You" equation.
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Post by Prak »

Yeah, Ravengm, those sound like they were just run of the mill douches. May have been stickjocks that got banned from actual Amtgard.

Flatline, I'd make weapons like that, but they're basically illegal in amtgard, which dictates a cloth cover, though other than that, they may be...

Didn't get out there yesterday, but hopefully next sunday, or the sunday after I can go check it out. I'm averse to borrowing stuff if I can help it, so I want to show up to my first meet with my own stuff.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Boffer construction has.... lots of finicky parts to it that many people either omit or forget about, all of which are rather handy when taken all together.

When I built my first boffer, it was a basic Cpvc, pool noodle, and duck tape 30-40" arming sword; then a larger grey Epvc, noodle and duck tape 50" or so war sword.

After that I found out about using used graphite golf club shafts, and I've hardly looked back at the use of pvc cores (barring very large weapons that warrant a solid core).

I've found that Goodwill, and variants thereof, are the best source of graphite cores. Dropping 4$ for a 40" length of graphite shaft with a handle is a steal, and I've got I think about 5 or 6 cores that I use.

After I had some experience building the things, I attempted a fishing rod core, capped with a foam rubber wine cork and sandwiched between two layers of 1" white open cell camping foam. The foam was pre-cut to be vaugely Drach'Nyen looking; and then careful use of xacto knife, cutting board, and different colours of duck tape resulted in a 50" boffer that weighs roughly 1 lb. It's a rather beastly prop, and lighter than most people would expect.

I've also built a "fish" club, basically it's a 8" thick block of foam, with a pvc core cut out to look like a 36"~ or so long fish about 12" wide. I built it for a cleric of one larp's water god. It's safe enough for "baseball batting" (a very dangerous and always prohibited practice among larps) due to the sheer amounts of foam, and makes a somewhat effective sheild due to sheer width. It's a shitty weapon, and while is impressive looking, I only used the fish at one event and moved back to my (blackened) silver longsword and crossbow.

The last versions of boffers that I made involved dumping the use of duck tape; and using a garbage bag to line the foam; and a single leg of dollar store black nylon stocking as the cover. They are .... better on so many levels than any of my previous boffer attempts.

Switching from ducktape to nylon outer covers has been a massive step forward for me. The new versions are easier and faster to build (no messing around with having to lay duck tape lengthwise on the foam). They are less destructive of materials used in construction (no tape to ruin foam is a good thing). Plus, are lighter and more durable (the fact that there is no tape in contact with the foam means that the foam is not being slightly torn by tape pushing into, then pulling out of the foam, with every strike.

I still use the ducktape and fishing rod Drach'Nyen knockoff on my home larp character; mostly because it fits in with the rest of their costume (a full suit of self-made 1/4" HDPE plastic covered in blood (globbed on red acrylic paint gone over with citadel inks) and skulls; with an Iron Man full-head helmet painted white, with one eye a multi-coloured star, the other a gaping bloody pit, and curling ram's horns coming out of the sides; I keep the faceplate up and wear a black nylon on my face to make the 'mouth' of the horned skull helmet appear black, and not show my face, also I soak the nylon in cold water to keep cool while wearing about 20-30 lbs of armour, other kit while fighting in 30-40* C weather in the summer).

Actual gaming at Larps can vary. I see lots of potential at larps, however most of the people who run plot at them are... rather novices when it comes to gaming and storytelling, and seem to have a fear of characters gaining rewards.

The usual format that I see for larps is "you live in this backwater town; shit comes to fuck with you guys, powerful, insanely powerful shit. Looting said powerful creatures will net you in no real treasure. Congratulations on survival."

After five seasons of different completely different Artistic Directors with different levels of skill and organization and... no actual difference between seasons in terms of what happens during the season; it gets tedious and boring.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Prak_Anima wrote:Yeah, Ravengm, those sound like they were just run of the mill douches. May have been stickjocks that got banned from actual Amtgard.

Flatline, I'd make weapons like that, but they're basically illegal in amtgard, which dictates a cloth cover, though other than that, they may be...

Didn't get out there yesterday, but hopefully next sunday, or the sunday after I can go check it out. I'm averse to borrowing stuff if I can help it, so I want to show up to my first meet with my own stuff.
That's strange.

Our boffer larp was based on a heavily modified version of Treasure Trap that runs in a series of caves in England. The guy running the system had the books that he brought over from England and we had a friend's farm to run around on with trees & hills & shit. We'd usually go sundown to sunrise, so you'd have to bring your own light sources and shit. Building a yellow/orange LED torch was kind of badass. If I ever were to rebuild it I'd put some controllers in it and make it flicker.
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Post by Prak »

Judging Eagle wrote:I still use the ducktape and fishing rod Drach'Nyen knockoff on my home larp character; mostly because it fits in with the rest of their costume (a full suit of self-made 1/4" HDPE plastic covered in blood (globbed on red acrylic paint gone over with citadel inks) and skulls;
....I need to do nero(or w/e)larp... Amtgard requires realistic material for armour....
Amtgard Rules, Sword Construction wrote:1. Use a length of Fiberglass, Kite spar, PVC, or a golf shaft for the core. Remove all sharp edges and points from both ends of the core.
2. Cap both ends of the core with alternating layers of tape and foam until the cap is secure and decidedly dull. Cover the pommel with enough closed cell foam to ensure that it is at least 2.5 inches in diameter. Note that all pommels must meet this minimum size requirement regardless of your specific fighting style.
3. If you are making a …
3.1. … flat blade, sandwich the core between several layers of camp-pad foam.
3.2. … round blade, you can use a piece of cylindrical foam water toy that has a factory hole in the center, and cut it to be the length of the blade. If your core moves back and forth within the hole, you can tape a long strip of camp pad foam to the shaft to reduce the noise and prolong the life of the blade. Tape the base of the water toy to the shaft very well. Fiberglass strapping tape is recommended for strength and weight.
4. Tape several pieces of closed cell foam over the top of the sword with fiberglass strapping tape. You should have at least 3 layers of closed cell foam (1.5 inches) on your stabbing tip (and even more for a two handed stabbing weapon, such as a spear).
5. For the cover choose a light, durable, opaque, fabric. Cut it to length plus three inches, and outside diameter plus one inch.
6. Fold the fabric across and sew the side and top.
7. Roll the cover like a stocking, and then roll it down the sword.
8. Secure the cover to the hilt with tape.
Armour Construction wrote:Armor Modifiers
Non-authentic materials refer to materials that were not in use to create armor at the time, such as plastic. For comparison of metals, steel is the standard weight and toughness, so lighter or softer metals, such as aluminum, will incur this penalty, while stainless steel will not. Subtractions for inauthentic material may never exceed -2, though completely inappropriate materials may receive no points (i.e. aluminum foil, cardboard, etc).
...on the other hand, looking at the armour rules, you can make leather armour that's as durable as normal plate by simply rounding heavy leather's base thickness up from 3/16" to a more easily stated 1/4", making it cuir bouilli, and being really anal retentive about it. Then better by adding studs, scales, etc.
Last edited by Prak on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Ah I see what's up. In our LARP you just flat weren't allowed to stab if you had a solid core. Even well made weapons could injure if you stab with them, and we've seen it happen.

We'd make daggers out of pure closed cell foam and latex if we wanted to stab or throw daggers. They didn't last a very long time, but it was really the only safe way.

Also, I'd argue that 5 or 6 thick layers of latex is just as durable, if not moreso, than than rolls of gaffer's/duct tape.

If you're building more than one or two weapons it's certainly cheaper and more elegant, since you can add paint to the liquid latex and then weather the blade later.
Last edited by TheFlatline on Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Prak »

Yeah, Amtgard is really iffy about the tips too, since they're worried about the tips of the pipes or rods going through the foam from too much pressure. I have no clue why they don't just cap them or put a coin on top or something....
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Prak_Anima wrote:Yeah, Amtgard is really iffy about the tips too, since they're worried about the tips of the pipes or rods going through the foam from too much pressure. I have no clue why they don't just cap them or put a coin on top or something....
I used to wrap gaffers/duct tape around the tips and layer in some heavy fabric to prevent ripping and then the center layer of the sword would have 3-4 inches of solid foam in front of it. What we found is that ripping is a consideration, but moreso, even getting stabbed with a big foam stick is a potential risk. There were a few bruises before we instituted a no-solid-core-stabbing rule, usually when the attacker stumbled and put their weight behind the thrust. Plus, we'd have the target lose their balance and twist an ankle and fall and shit. It was just easier to disallow thrusts.
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Post by Strung Nether »

I play Belegarth, and The reason for the no stabbing rule is that often the way the blade is constructed, the tip is rounded. That rounded foam tip acts like a arch under pressure, making stabs hurt like a bitch and potentially dangerous to the throat/groin. if you layer some open cell 2# foam on top of the tip they are usually safe.

IF you want to start building good weapons, go here:
http://geddon.org/index.php/Category:How_to_build
-Strung
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Ugh, this whole issue on "authenticity of materials" vs "bringing in a costume that fits the game setting" has always bothered me when the game is all about "lightest touch combat" with "foam padded lightweight props".

Honestly, I have very little respect for "larps" that advocate costuming that is less safe for their players long-term physical health than what is allowed in the SCA; the organization that most Larps are trying to replicate in magic/light mode.

I've read articles by long time members of the SCA have stopped wearing their "authentic" metal armour because wearing "authentic" metal armour will damage the human body if worn for extended periods of time over many years. Ruining ones knees, hips, shoulders and other joints by wearing overly heavy equipment is alright if you're doing labour and you're being fiscally compensated for said trauma to the body, many jobs in the world seriously are that sort of trade off of physical health for fiscal compensation.

However, being told that a "for entertainment" group demands and expects its players to wear equipment that is guaranteed to damage its players is morally irresponsible; especially when much safer, and sometimes even more effective replacements exist.

Authenticityfags are right about how their gear "looks", and is made to live up to the imagined standards they are trying to achieve. However they don't have the right to demand that other players injure themselves in order to their play pretendy-fun-time-games. Especially not when the "best" looking Larp armour costumes are made out of soft foam and latex paint (aka european GW Warhammer based larps); and said authenticityfags are trying to emulate that sort of costuming. Their entire position is at cross-purposes with their intended goals.

In the SCA, HDPE armour is not going to get a person hassled, let alone penalized; so long as it's not glaring that you're wearing blue plastic barrels. The usual rule being "10 feet"; where if at 10' or more away, one should be able to tell you're wearing anachronistic equipment.

You could also speak with your local chapter and see what they say. Given the fact that the "normal" level of armour costuming at larps is no armour with "a chain shirt" being the most that people wear, many of them are glad to see players making any effort to bring in costuming that "looks the part".

What these myopic idiots fail to realize is that their restrictive policies discourage people from actually wearing the very things that they want to see in the first place, costuming that actually looks like it belongs on the characters. Plus of course, like the SCA-momma of a larper once said "so... what time period again were people using magic spells and were elves?" when she overheard her daughter mentioning something "wasn't period" at a larp.

The SCA learned long ago that getting people "into the field with armour" was more important than being "authentic above all else" (whatever that means, it's not like the authentifags shave with a pumice stone, or brush their teeth with chewed up twigs or use salt cellars at their tables /rolleyes). People who want a veneer of authenticity often have no clue about what authenticity even should look like.

Also, you can just kick their "rules" in the face by taking plastic, and spray-painting it metallic or matte black (a rather common appearance for medieval armour) or using a spray adhesive like Sluyter to lay chopped up goodwill leather jackets on top. Cuir Boulli at a fraction of the cost, and without having to worry about water damage or cracking when over-stressed. Real cuire boulli is... really pricey and can ruin your expensive leather if done wrong.
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Post by Prak »

I'm probably going to go with leather (read: vinyl, because fuck them, I'm broke), and just put modifiers on it. Apparently the number of people who actually wear armour is slim to none in a lot of groups, anyway.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by TheFlatline »

What's your budget? Sometimes you can score really, really good deals on leather if you shop around.
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Post by Prak »

Um... I have about $20 at the moment. I get paid tuesday, and my check will be ~$80. And most of that has to go to my phone. Also, with the character concept I'm going with*, vinyl really is best, because it'll be easier to get something that fits.


*Gremlin. Fortunately I don't have to use the crap gremlin mook monster stats, I can just say I'm a gremlin, and use real classes. But, I've decided to play them as psuedo-insect creatures that grow their equipment. Out of unhatched gremlin eggs. So, the armour would be leather, but it has to be vaguely gremlin skin tone. And I ain't buying reptile skin leather.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Yeah 20 bucks won't get you leather. Vinyl is your best bet.
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Post by Prak »

yep. But I'm not worrying about that anytime soon, really. Hell, I'm mostly just wanting to be able to show up with my own sword and garb.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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