The Gaming Den

It seems a natural way to have a PC Xuan and Wu pair. And once you accept that cohorts are OK, it seems reasonable to allow a pair of characters that are each effectively a level or two behind.

Hm, that could work well, though it might make playing a first level Xuan or Wu difficult.

though I can just use the Body Assemblage first level fix. That could work...

Edit: Ok, I incorporated it. Make up for lack of a sphere?

Did you seriously just give yakfolk the choice between a free cohort and an at-will cantrip?

ok, orion, I appreciate help on this, but if you're going to help, then make a god damned suggestion, not just some fucking dismissive bullshit like "no, bad. you're doing it wrong. Also you're dumb."

so what else is in the balance level of a cohort and a sphere? I don't want every damned thing walking around with basic access to a sphere, granted, a lot of the races have it right now, but that's because it makes sense for them. I'm being fucking cautious.

Well, the free cohort is obviously balanced at least with the other free cohort races.

As for granting spellcasting ability... it has to be something level-appropriate. What's ultimately going to be workable depends on how much effort you're willing to put into develoing it.

A Sphere is a fre spell per day at each level you have access to, plus a granted power.

Now, Yakfolk have substantial physical advantages, so it needn't be *that* good. But if you're going with "gets some magic" it really needs to be something on the lines of "1 level-approrpaite wizard spell". Unfortunatley, people will use it for self-buffs and cash loops instead of anything cool like walls or nukes, so maybe write up a "spirit" spell list for them to choose from. That's a lot of work though if you're not gonna get any other mileage out of the list.

yeah, that's the problem I ran into when I went back and considered the next level up, literally.

considering "level one spell at will"... you'd have yak folk running around putting mooks to sleep and CdGing them, or something equally, if not more abusive.

hmm... I think I'll just say "you get one level appropriate spell, changing each level, as a spell like ability at will. Work out which spell with your dm."

or... what about just "summon spirit" 3/day or something? the versatility of choosing spirits appropriate to the moment balancing the ever-presence of cohort?

You already have a 'spirit magic' mechanic. It's called "a sphere". Sure, you don't want to give out spheres to every race. That's understandable, although I don't necessarily agree. However, for a race that is specifically supposed to gain magic through a pact with a spirit, a sphere is what makes sense.

yeah. I know. I'm just trying to not give every race a sphere because that'll get kind of boring, abusable, and when it gets to humans... what the fuck am I supposed to give them?

So either I cut back on spirits and spirit magic, reflavour the race, or just man up, and find something that works for humans.


OR... there's another option. everything actually does get a sphere, and humans are exalteds done less painfully. In this setting you don't play a normal human, you play a human who is... exceptionally exceptional, and has reached a certain level of spiritual advancement. It'd certainly allow the martial classes to breach the Linear Warriors/Quadratic Wizards barrier, and explain some Charles Atlas Superpower stuff.

What would be the more desirable path? Everyone has something balance-equivalent to a sphere, or Everyone gets a sphere, and humans are "heroic" examples of the race?

The former has me looking for stuff that's roughly as good as getting a sphere, which could be difficult and probably leads to lots of new fiddly scaling racial traits. The second means that even your first level swordsman is a legend in his own town. And that there's very little reason to start at level one.

Prak: the exalted idea sounds workable but if memory (no book currentlY) serves right, wouldn't that still be a little behind the other races?

My original thinking with humans was that a bonus feat can be approximately on par with a sphere. It's a choice between the versatility of magic mojo (at the possible cost of another important attribute) vs. the additional power of another combat or skill feat, and that can be balanced. If you have a feat that grants a sphere, it's pretty much identical. It's still slightly biased towards sphere users, but probably not enough to impact enjoyment.

That way, the new and improved human would look something like:
[*]Bonus Skill: A human gains one extra skill point per level (four at 1st).
[*]Bonus Feat: A human gains an additional feat a 1st level (prerequisites blah blah).
[*]Bonus Attribute Bonus: A human gains a +2 increase to an attribute of her choice.

If you're giving out expert access to spheres out willy-nilly, I don't know. Giving out two to four bonus feats as an alternative seems like too much; too kludgy.


Lastly, spheres (and possibly spell-like abilities as a whole) should probably be altered to use a character's highest mental attribute, and have scaling DCs (that is, Heighten Spell-likes for everyone).

Well, when I copy/pasted the races over here, I changed it so their spheres don't increase access unless they take an appropriate class.

but that looks fine for humans, and isn't much more than what I was thinking, really.


I'm still liking the idea of allowing "enlightened humans" as a race, but probably not a first level one. Maybe it should just be a Prestige Class, rather than a special "human with HD" sort of thing.

Cool.

Prak_Anima wrote:I'm still liking the idea of allowing "enlightened humans" as a race, but probably not a first level one. Maybe it should just be a Prestige Class, rather than a special "human with HD" sort of thing.

I think Koumei already created that with the "Enlightened Disciple of Wel Hung Temple, Long Wang Province".

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Cool.

Prak_Anima wrote:I'm still liking the idea of allowing "enlightened humans" as a race, but probably not a first level one. Maybe it should just be a Prestige Class, rather than a special "human with HD" sort of thing.

I think Koumei already created that with the "Enlightened Disciple of Wel Hung Temple, Long Wang Province".

True, but I was thinking more of something along the lines of Hellwalker, where any class could theoretically take it, and it gives them their choice of a spellcasting, martial or skill class' type effect (ie, Craft of the Lower Planes).

right, so I realized earlier today that Nekomata have one of the kinda awesome corrupt spells on their sphere list, Plague of Nightmares. They make people liable to be devourded by demons....

broken?

for reference: Plague of Nightmares: Sleep provides no rest, 1d4 cha drain each night, at 0 cha, the subject's soul is devoured by a demon and he dies, and he can't be resurrected.


I honestly am not sure if it's broken or not. Though I do know that if I keep it in the sphere, the nekomata (or a nekomata, if the user isn't,) is the one who does the soul devouring

How do you stop the spell?

I agree that having the sphere user do the devouring is a good thing, but I think that it should extend to any sphere user. The victim has nightmares of being eaten alive by the sphere user. That should be a balancing factor, because it gives an opportunity to identify and seek out the sphere user.

you get a new saving throw each day, and you can conceivably use magic to cover the ability drain, but the duration is instantaneous, so the effect just goes until you die or save.

And what are the targeting requirements?

I don't think the spell is that problematic. It takes a relatively long time to kill something and offers multiple saves. Plus, a target you care about at level 15 will be able to heal the damage until they eventually make the save - it's not even a proper Save-or-Die, more of a Save-or-Buy-Restoration. Considering that you can have Trap the Soul as an eight-level spell, it's kind of sad, actually, like most of the BoVD spells - they just can't match the crazy awesome that the core spells have.
The only problem of Plague of Nightmares might be the fact that victims can't be recovered by True Resurrection, without having a clause about ending this condition. The Tomes don't seem to do that as a rule.

EDIT: The spell is touch range, but Prak made the Nekomata version able to work with a component of the target.

actually, I didn't change the range, I just changed the material component from an ounce of fresh, bloody flesh, to any specimen of the target. (though, strictly speaking, as spell likes, they wouldn't normally need material components)

But it's not like the nekomata will have trouble with that... seriously, not many people are going to worry too much about a cat rubbing against their leg. Which... is another worry about them. The only tell from normal cats will be tail (not bobbed, splits into two half way) and maybe size.

well, there's an interesting idea I just hit on... one of my biggest worries about the spirit races right now is the spheres as racial traits, but they need those spheres to be what they are in folk lore... so, what if each spirit race that has a sphere right now instead could take a sphere as an alternate class feature for one of their favoured classes at first level?

So Kitsune rogues could drop trapfinding for basic access to the Kitsune Sphere, then maybe Trapsense for advanced and expert; Nekomata Overlords could drop Conjure Weapon and Manuevers for their sphere, and then another four picks; Maybe a Tanuki jester could drop a spell per day from each level for his sphere? I'm honestly not sure what to do for Tanuki

For Tengu Samurai, I'm thinking they could drop Pledge of Loyalty for Basic, Whirlwind Attack for advanced and Blindfighting for Expert

Usagi Sorcerer could just drop familiar and get basic Moon sphere, then advanced at 3rd, and expert at 6th

And with Yuki-Onna Bards, I'm again at a loss... Going with Frank's Bard, which I just found (why isn't it in the tome?) maybe they can drop a few performance tricks to get their sphere access?

This would make races a lot easier to balance...

Prak_Anima wrote:actually, I didn't change the range, I just changed the material component from an ounce of fresh, bloody flesh, to any specimen of the target. (though, strictly speaking, as spell likes, they wouldn't normally need material components)

But it's not like the nekomata will have trouble with that... seriously, not many people are going to worry too much about a cat rubbing against their leg. Which... is another worry about them. The only tell from normal cats will be tail (not bobbed, splits into two half way) and maybe size.

I think you missed my point about this being level 15. Whoever can't tell a Nekomata from a housecat at this level deserves to be hit with a lousy Save-or-Buy.

Alright, with all this discussion I went and looked the spell up. In the sphere it's a spell-like ability, so by the normal rules there isn't any material component. Thankfully, the chunk of stuff is a focus.

One thing to keep in mind with plague of nightmares is that the instantaneous duration means that it's stackable.

As written, there are tons of ways to get around the spell. Mind blank, killing the caster, break enchantment, and probably more.

I'd just write up a new spell:

Dream of Devouring
Enchantment [evil, mind affecting]
Components: V, S, F.
Casting time: standard action.
Range: unlimited.
Target: none.
Duration: instantaneous.
Saving throw: Will special (see below).
Spell resistance: sure, whatever.
 When you cast this spell and touch the focus, whenever the living creature it was a part of (referred from now on as "the victim") goes to sleep she is plagued with nightmares of being devoured by a shadowy foe. The sleep provides no rest and the nightmare deals 1d4 charisma drain to the victim.
 A successful saving throw reveals the shadowy dream figure to be the caster, and negates the charisma drain for that period of sleep. The caster is also revealed when the victim's charisma is reduced to 0.
 When the victim's charisma reaches 0 she begins to take constitution drain rather than charisma drain. When she dies, her soul is taken by the caster. The caster can choose to store the soul in any of the usual manners, or can devour it. Once the victim's soul is devoured, it cannot be brought back until the caster is dead.
 Killing the caster will stop further nightmares.
Focus: part of a living creature.

well, the 15th level thing isn't necessarily a salve... this is for a playable race, not just monsters.

On the other hand... practically everyone in Japan-Island should be able to spot a nekomata... It's a relatively large cat, with a split tail, and maybe glowing eyes. If it's not in human form, or in some way acquired the ability to look like a normal bob-tailed cat, then, because it's a "urban" monster (ie, pops up in human settlements) people know about them, how to prevent them, and how to identify them. Granted, most will, soon as possible, eat their owner and take their form, and start creating undead guards as possible, and live a fairly enjoyable life slowly sucking the town dry and killing any who find out about it, but people *can* identify the signs

Figured out Kappa Head Juice, if it spills they're dazed, but they get a will save if they're physically inverted. An action willingly undertaken doesn't allow a save.

that playable?

Ok, so I put in some stuff about how I'm reconsidering the sphere for spirit races, it seems more balanced as an alternate class feature than as a straight racial trait. Yes, this means you'll run into kitsune that can't do shit, on occasion, but really, I'm ok with that, since most npc kitsune will probably be Sphere-classed anyway.

Also folded the India analogue post in with the China analogue post, since it has the Tibet/Buddhism analogous region, and there's so much over lap between that and India. Swapped some post reservations around to allow a post for some monsters when I get to it.

I added two more races for the India/Tibet analogue, the Naga and the Balu, if people could give me their opinion of them it'd be helpful.

I need more ideas for races, especially for India/Tibet/Buddhist, Korea, and Mongolia, along with some idea of what the hell to do with the Mongolian analogue, though I've reconceptualized the world a bit, making a large central landmass (China, India, Korea) with the Japan analogue an island, and the Ainu analogue being this relatively small area at the top of the land mass, stretching over to a cluster of islands near the Japan analogue.

I think I'll put in a few more areas, maybe adding a small island chain to be maori/polynesian because I'd love to add land raiding shark people, as mentioned in the Fantasy Kitchen Sink thread Frank did.

Any suggestions?