The Littlest Giant

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:28 am

What's the smallest creature of the giant type in D&D? I know about the Half-Giant, who's only medium size, but are there any others? Heck, are there any giants that are small size category.

Mythologically, Loki is the largely portrayed as short and slight (when not shapeshifting) compared to his peers amongst the Aesir, despite him being of the giant race.

Danchild · Post by **Danchild** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:17 am

Half giant is the smallest I know of. There might also be a smaller troll variety. I suppose you could apply the Half Troll template to a critter, but the conotations would be unfortunate, even if that resulted in a change in type.

Ogre Magi can disguise themselves as smaller cretures, but I think the smallest they can go is medium. Their actual size is of course large.

As an aside, the giants of mythology were not neccesarily big. Giant just describes how powerful they were. Same goes for dwarfs. Not neccesarily small, just comparitively weak.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:52 am

I just remembered the Goliaths and Arcana Unearthed Giants, as well as the Forest Trolls from the MM3, all medium size.

As a nitpick, a dwarf is not comparatively weak mythologically. The main thing that differentiates them from an elf is an association for the chthonic and crafting.

bosssmiley · Post by **bosssmiley** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:57 am

The Taer in "Unapproachable East" are another M-sized Giant type creature.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:09 pm

Nothing at all differentiates a dwarf from an elf mythologically. Those two terms are used interchangeably before Tolkien. In fact, to this day the two words appear in the dictionary definition of each other.

-Username17

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:46 pm

That's not absolutely the case. If you stick to Norse mythology, there's some minor distinction; in that the Dvergar (dark elves) are associated with the chthonic and crafting and show an obvious etymological connection with the word 'dwarf'. That's more of an argument that the word 'elf' is a vague term and closer to a category.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:09 pm

Rumpelstiltskin.

-Username17

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:52 pm

Dark elves (Svartálfar) are dwarves (Dvergar), but the term Svartálfar seems to exist mainly as a method of contrast with the "light" elves (Ljósálfar), which really were just elves (álfar). The Ljósálfar are closer to elves the way fantasy represents them: radiant and living in a paradise.

There's also the various classifications of Scottish Gaelic Aes Sídhe, with some being beautiful and living in light and being very "elf-y" (Seelie) and others hideous, cruel and living in the earth and being very "dwarf-y" (Unseelie).

Grimm classified them as light elves (elves), dark elves (brownies and the like), and black elves (dwarves).

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:38 pm

The late (16th+ century) Germanic Rumpelstiltskin is a more modern tale than old Norse (though he retains the crafting connotation), which was the more specific mythology I was referring to. Yes, if you take the breadth of European folklore at once, then the words elf, dwarf, faerie, spirit, troll, gnome, gremlin, goblin, hobgoblin, and more will blur.