So, looks like people prefer my Exalted idea dump to be in a separate thread from rants, and here it is.
Despite my endless rage and constant disappointment, my mind returns to Exalted again and again. Truly said, that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. I guess I'm just enchanted by glowing battle auras, gigantic swords, wanking on my characters' awesomeness, factions each of whom has a viable point, crazy-ass magical weirdness, empires of elemental-powered supersoldiers, heroes that rise above their station and challenge destiny, ridiculously over the top action, fantasy world wars; all that stuff that early Exalted promised, and partially still promises, but mostly failed to deliver, either at all, or in an engaging fashion. Plus, you cannot help but to see promise in the game where characters live on a flat world floating in the sea of chaos; the necromantically powered champion of the dead is the genuinely nicest guy among the example characters in the corebook; and demon princes have multiple souls which are separate people in their own right, and often are fairly cool fellows to hang around, save for their plans to roast humanity on a spit in revenge for the past wrongs.
Anyway, I need some positiveness in my life, so here's the rough outline of the changes I would have liked to implement to Exalted.
0) The design goal should be to make following factions playable within the boundaries of the vanilla playstyle: Solars, Abyssals, Lunars, Dragon-Blooded, Sidereals, Infernals and Fae. Autobots I don't generally care about, so screw them, maybe they can serve as antagonists that assimilate people into the machine hivemind, or maybe there will be some renegade NPCs (because that Autochtonian elder from Keychain of Creation was totally awesome), but I didn't even read most of their 1E book, so don't expect any reimaginings from me.
The design goal should be to make PCs parties that consists of any combination of the default playable splats both mechanically viable and having enough roleplaying reasons to work together without stretching suspension of disbelief or inventing world-ending threats of pure evil to band together against. Fluff-wise all of the playable splats should provide factions that actual players can sympathize with, without doing extreme mental gymnastics. Killfuck Soulshitter factions also can and will exist, particularly amongst darker splats, but no playable splats that support only them. And no playable splats that are automatically virtuous rulers or advisors, or other caste-based shit. Castes suck in general and doubly so if they are both divinely-ordained and ingrained in the mechanics of the gameword. They have no place in a world that is not grimdark, and I don't want grimdark.
This will require significant changes in splat descriptions and schticks, the way Exaltations work and mechanical power level of the splats, which will be outlined below.
Yet these changes should be made. In my opinion, making other splats into, basically, the supporting cast for Solars (particularly obvious in 2E) might have boosted the popularity in the short term, by making power-tripping as Solars somewhat easier, but hurt the game in the long term (as now the probability of Exalted failing to survive into a 3rd Edition is around 98%, only idiots and WW shills can pretend that everything is all right with their gameline model). When you know that later splats just cannot offer PCs that can adventure with the members of the default splat as equals (okay, Lunars in 2E sometimes can, but they too will fall behind as EXP levels grow), this automatically removes most of the crunch reasons to buy them. Similarly, making certain splats objectively bad and wrong (or EVIL!) reduced their potential player base, because the great majority of players prefers to play characters one can see at least as anti-heroes without squinting too hard (and similarly, badasses tend to sell better than chumps).
Pre-empting possible counterarguments, Essence levels should serve to regulate the power level of the game, instead of splats, and while many people like to play the underdog, they generally do so on the assumption that the underdog will be able to win in the end anyway, and in RPG terms this means having sufficient tools to win, because few people like to win through plot devices. As far as I can tell, once 2E made the power gap between Dragonbloods and Solars really all-encompassing and unsurmountable, the once-vocal fanbase of the former mostly evaporated from the forums, leaving just a few people that ran pure DB games because they didn't like the crazyness of Celestial power level.
0.5)As the game is supposed to be about PCs, elder Exalted (and equivalent beings) should mostly cease to exist, as a concept. They mostly serve no puspose what but to counter whatever changes to the setting PCs try to implement and to provide the GM with sticks to railroad PCs. Also, existence of a significant number of 1500+ years old Exalted, that generally fail to change the status quo despite their efforts, raises many uncomfortable questions about the true position of the Exalted in the setting, that can only be avoided by making the newly-appeared splats the only competent ones from both mechanical and story positions. So, all Exalts should have the normal lifespan of no more 200-300 years. A few PCs that are absolutely indispensable for the setting, such as Scarlet Empress and old Kejak, will be explaned by plotdevice means of life extension (so you can kneecap Carjack by shutting down the manse that produces his heathstone of immortality, instead of battling him head-on), or actually being a role, instead of a person, assumed by a succession of magically potent people throughout the history.
Deathlords, in their turn, will be reduced to simple ancient ghosts of variable power level, instead of ancient Exalts on steroids they are now. They'll grow in number accordingly, to still be a threat, when and if they get their shit together. Powerful demons simply will be toned down or built in such a way, that they are capable of ridiculous feats within their "portfolios" but not really good in anything else. Gods and elementals can mostly stay as they are, with a few nerfs to Incarnae and other top dogs.
Meanwhile, the competence of younger Exalted should be buffed. Mechanics should state unequivocally that everything that needs to be done in the setting can be done within the equivalent of the old Essence 2-5 range. Oh and - as I already noted above when talking about Essence levels - Charms should have distinct (far more distinct than now) levels of powers, corresponding to each Essence rating, so that the GM can simply decide on how epic his game will be by choosing appropriate starting and maximal Essence ratings.
1)Certain key things in the setting should be left for the GM to define or only be presented as an array of options, allowing the GM to adjust tone of the setting and the general direction of the plotline. In case of the latter, the game should not clearly pick one of these options as true. In particular:
- I'd like to see everything that was before and during the initial salvos of the Primordial War as essentially unknowable, due to use of powers that warped time, casualty, magical constants of the universe and erased whole concepts from existence during these salvos. Such arrangement will allow arguments in-setting about who was truly responsible for all bad shit that happened to the world without definitive answers. This is required because of the sheer scale of destruction and genocide of the Primordial War: actually justifying such ocean of blood requires the Primordials to pretty much be be utterly evil from the beginning. And if they weren't, then the black hat falls on the rebels' collective head.
- I'd like to see no definite statements about the reason why Celestial Incarnae seem to not give a fuck about the world anymore. Possible options should include "They really are that evil and callous", "They are caught in the Primordials' booby trap aka Games of Divinity", "Games of Divinity allow the victor something awesome, like ability to reshape the reality itself, so either each of them thinks he/she will instantly set all things staight and create a Paradise upon winningm, and/or they are corrupted by the promise of absolute power and do not trust any their peers to use it benevolently", "Neverborn/Primordials successfuly cursed shit out of the Incarna at the moment of their deaths/mutilation after surrendering, so the Incarna don't have real power to intervene and only serve as figureheads of Heaven".
- I'd like to keep "Was the Usurpation justified?" an open question, which requires a change in the options present before Sidereals. As I want less grimdark and more doing the impossible in my Exalted, this will automatically make the lower-risk, lower-reward option, picked by Sidereals, the wrong one. The Bronze Faction needs to have an actual, workable plan of utopia of their own, which was shot down, or - as an option - significantly set back, by the Great Contagion and other interventions of things that are outside Fate.
- And of course there should be multiple options for the fate of Scarlet Empress. And "Demon Empress" variant should not very high on the list of option, because even though he was pushed as the only realy canonical option since 1E DB books, it only become more inane since then (the more ways of infinitely extending one's lifespan were introduced to the setting, and the more tendency to play safe was established as the defining trait of the Empress' character, the less likely her deal with the devil for immortality was). "Being dead and gone", though, should be fairly high on that list. (As a side note, my own working idea of her fate is way more complicated and flattering, but that's because I like her characters, and it seems that most people don't, by this point.)
- The Great Curse should either just go away or be made optional and depending on a players' goodwill. It is just a crappy idea, that is supposed to enforce the theme of mythical flawed heroes, but actually only dilutes it, by attributing their flaws to an external source, instead, of you know, human nature. (Accidentally, the existence of the Great Curse shoots down any pretenses in the area of moral commentary the setting might have. These pretenses can be very pretentious, but there is a simple fact, that the setting explicitly says: if not for the Great Curse, the Exalted elite would have inevitably created an utopia. And bullshit like this automatically pushes the setting into Fairyland, no matter how much boobs, gore and slavery the books contain.) Moreover, the Great Curse as written requires jumping through numerous hoops, to justify how Exalted might fail to notice it, considering that the typical manifestation tend to involve massive loss of self-control and you don't need to be a transcedent savant to realize that something might just be wrong with your head if you have a tendency to flip out and kill people or to turn into a hysterical wreck from time to time. Finally, in my experience, lots of players chafe unti the whole mechanic, as it implies partial loss of control over their PCs. And those who don't mostly don't need extra reasons for their PCs to be dicks, anyway.
Exalted I'm (Probably) Too Lazy To Write
Moderator: Moderators
Deathlords should work like this:
--they are ghosts, and should be ghost-level, not exalt-level, in their personal killing and world changing power
--they are almost impossible to permanently kill
--they have exalt-level *single-target* mindfuckery that works only on those they spend extended time with
--they can bestow useful charms, essence bonuses, exaltation itself, or *something* on favored servants. Maybe they can create or *predict* Abyssals, who are then held by brainwashing, not dark fate. Maybe not, and they work through corrupt dragonbloods and the occasional brainwashed solar.
Anyway, the Mask of Winters is not a power ranger with a bigger zord than you, he's an unliving expression of entropy. In his case, the impulse toward serenity through oppression. You foil his plots and murder his disciples, but he will always be with you.
--they are ghosts, and should be ghost-level, not exalt-level, in their personal killing and world changing power
--they are almost impossible to permanently kill
--they have exalt-level *single-target* mindfuckery that works only on those they spend extended time with
--they can bestow useful charms, essence bonuses, exaltation itself, or *something* on favored servants. Maybe they can create or *predict* Abyssals, who are then held by brainwashing, not dark fate. Maybe not, and they work through corrupt dragonbloods and the occasional brainwashed solar.
Anyway, the Mask of Winters is not a power ranger with a bigger zord than you, he's an unliving expression of entropy. In his case, the impulse toward serenity through oppression. You foil his plots and murder his disciples, but he will always be with you.
Splat Ideas So Far
The goal here should be making single-splat parties possible, with multiple archetypes/builds being supported per splat, while still granting obvious advantages to mixed-splat parties.
Solars need the most change obviously, as we're supposed to discard the fucking splat-as-caste system, to give every splat their niche (instead of making Solars automatically better than anyone in all situations and other Celestials existing only because Incarnae lacked juice to just make 700 Solars), and to eliminate the elder problem. Which demolishes most of their current shticks and messes with their backstory in a huge way.
But, on the other hand this change is one of the easier ones. A lots of people already like to imagine Solars as beacons of freedom, human empowerment through personal heroism, and rewarded virtue - something they, as, I believe, I already deliberated enough in previous rants, are most emphatically NOT in the canon. So, let's make them such.
In my ideal Exalted, those who have great and potentially world-changing dreams, drives and ideals, as well as high Virtue ratings (although, mechahically, I believe existing Virtues should be discarded, because they sort of blow and two of them intersect with Willpower anyway, so make it Virtue-ratings-or-equivalents) exalt as Solars. The most common trigger for Solar Exaltation by far is braving great dangers in the pursuit of one's dream or in the defense of one's convictions. There are not set number of Solar Exaltations and everyone who qualifies gets one. Do note, that this scheme will not make Solars necessarily nice. People like Alexander the Great still will pass the Solar Exaltation test with flying colors. It will just stop shoehorning them into an inherently repulsive system.
If you want to ask how certain elements of the setting contingent on Exaltation shards work, Sidereals artificially dropped the probability of Solar Exaltations to almost nothing through a plot device of epic fate-screwing, until the joint Malfeas-Underworld infiltration team finally managed to wreck their stuff (resetting the possibility of Solar exaltations wasn't their goal, obviously, just a side effect). And Solars can tap into the memory bank of their precedessors, that exists to make them better reformators and leaders of men by allowing to learn on others' mistakes (memories of only one precedessor are chosen to avoid driving new Solars mad). There, easy as pie. As about what caused the Usurpation if Solars do not automatically become jaded practically immortal god-kings anymore, I'll cover it once we get to Sidereals, or separately, once I have thought it trough.
Mechanically, Solars should be good generalists, which means they aren't totally weak in anything, but not really great in any area, except the area of their shtick. Like in the canon, their Charms should be straightforward tools of doing stuff better. Unlike the canon, their Charms should geared towards wide and non-conditional applicability, but not also overwhelming power across the board. Their special schticks, where they are the best, should be diplomancy, and effects that influence large masses of men, making societies and organizations work better - rather than best in everything, they should be great leaders, that totally can make everything work best. Also, they probably should still have effects that burninate demons and living dead with holy light, making them good, rather than mediocre, against these particular opponents. They should not have special effects besides that, though. Laser eyebeams are OK, and a lightsaber is probably OK, but conjuring glowing armor and steeds out of nothing is probably too much. Their weakness should be lack of transformative powers that take them beyond human limits permanently or for indefinite duration and, therefore, necessity to constantly spend/commit Essence to keep their effects active.
Example character concepts for Solars: crowd-inciting demagogue, inspirational tactical genius, holy exorcist, mind-bending power behind the throne, enlightened minister, religious leader/living saint (or brainwashing cult leader too), wandering defender of the people.
Lunars should follow the same basic principles of Exaltation as Solars, but the conditions should be different. Lunar Exaltation won't be interested in grand goals, but rather in personal badassery and strong will to survive and persevere. It should be a relatively capricious force, not guaranteed to trigger even by the most heroic deeds, but sometimes rewarding weak and downthrodden for the most minute acts of defiance or simply descending to save people in hopeless situation. Lunars should be the most individualistic and diverse Exalted, often more interested in living their lives to the full, rather than championing one cause or another.
Mechanically, Lunars should still do shapeshifting bigtime (and much better than before, except at Essence levels deliberately set to be low-key - seriously, ignoring mechanical abstractions like perfect defenses, which interaction with actual stuff happening in the gameworld is very vague at best, only elders with unplayably high Essence levels ever have a hope of holding a candle to, say, virus!Merser from Prototype) and be the toughest general-purpose asskickers on the team. Their secondary schticks should be derived from shapeshifting and include infiltration and parts of social sphere where appearance is particularly beneficial, such as seduction. Otherwise their social powerset should be weak, and the area that is Solars' second great strength, i.e. powers that make you a great leader and affect the masses (or even benefit others in general), should be practically nonexistent for them. They should be below average in building stuff as well.
Example character concepts for Lunars: wandering fortune-seeker, great trickster, general who leads from the front, avenger of the past wrongs (and its dark mirror, nobody-to-nightmare), duty-bound warrior empowered, casanova/great temptress.
The thematic distinction between Solars and Lunars above needs a bit of elaboration, because the canon totally fucking fails to make this distinction in a satisfactory fashion. That's the main reason why Lunars were completely reenvisioned twice, and still failed to obtain a setting niche that is both non-retarted and meaningful in the present day of the setting (and mechanically they, in both editions, must whore very narrow shticks, related to hulking out and smashing stuff, or be just like Solars, except way worse). The only reason Lunar books sold at all probably is their status as the main bait for furries in the gameline. Thankfully, in my ideal Exalted, Solars shtick is no longer "being teh bestest and shitting on niche protection", so my task is much easier. I envision Solars as diplomancers and faciliators, whom you should play if players want to be revolutionaries and reformers, out to change the world right from the gate, and Lunars as individualists, more suited to classical adventuring. Of course, in mixed parties Solars should gravitate more to being "Face" (besides bringing various mass buffs to play), while Lunars obviously will be more inclined towards "Muscle" role (although they should have enough sneaking around, trickery and minscrew tricks suited for immediate combat/adventuring needs, rather than long-term persuasion/mindscrew to create a possibility of a diverse all-Lunar or mostly-Lunar party). Looking at the larger picture, neither splat should hold dominance in the setting to the point when it matters for PCs. Sure, Solars tend to be driven to the positions of authority by their very nature, but in the world of ridiculous superpowers the strongest asskicker around warming the throne, with the best politician taking up the role of his senechal and administrator is a perfectly viable model.
Sidereals? Their idea of the Exaltation by fate is actually sound. Canon doesn't really do anything interesting with it, though. (You're a future Sidereal from birth, so in nearly all cases you are found though fate-reading and kidnapped by existing Sidereals as soon as you are born, and raised as a Sidereal from childhood.) Instead, Fate should just place Sidereal Exaltations on mortals of various ages for reasons that often aren't at all understandable to those without the ability to predict future, and sometimes even to those who have some degree of this ability. This is specifically to allow Exalted who do not want their new responsibility (because they actually liked their previous lives, and because being snatched by Exalted In Black/Heavenly Freedom Fighters because your destiny suddenly said that you have a great and terrible responsibility, related to shaping the fates of the world/keeping the whole reality from dissolution, is no fun) and "who the hell could have a bright idea of Exalting this guy?" Exalted.
Mechanically, Sidereals should be Batman Wizards, except without overwhelming power. Their Charms should be geared to arraging the fights so that their side has all advantages, debuffing the enemy, and tinkering with the plot (starting from divinations and ending with direct fate hacking). They should be the best sorcerers of the current age too (although as I envision sorcery as universally and equally accessible to every splat, this will be an organizational rather than inherent advantage). They definitely should have the weakest Charms for both direct damage and defense from being directly attacked of all Exalted. Good stealth and impersonation suite, but no instant escape Charms, like Avoidance Kata, until high Essence levels, so they actually can be forced into combat without excessive plot contrivances.
Oh, and Arcane Fate (thing that makes everyone in the Creation forget about Sidereals, even if those Sidereals are in the same party as them for quite a time) will cease to exist. It serves no meaningful purpose except screwing with mixed parties. Sidereals can be semi-secret (i.e., with everyone truly important being in the know, one way or another) without it. Passing themselves for messengers of Heaven, when they cannot simply do everything stealthily or through dupes, isn't exactly hard or implausible. Because the world is full of extremely diverse divinities already.
Example character concepts for Sidereals: prophetic advisor, policeman of the heavens, divine hitman, manipulative chessmaster, power-lusting sorcerer, Exalt who is good enough to still be on the run.
The goal here should be making single-splat parties possible, with multiple archetypes/builds being supported per splat, while still granting obvious advantages to mixed-splat parties.
Solars need the most change obviously, as we're supposed to discard the fucking splat-as-caste system, to give every splat their niche (instead of making Solars automatically better than anyone in all situations and other Celestials existing only because Incarnae lacked juice to just make 700 Solars), and to eliminate the elder problem. Which demolishes most of their current shticks and messes with their backstory in a huge way.
But, on the other hand this change is one of the easier ones. A lots of people already like to imagine Solars as beacons of freedom, human empowerment through personal heroism, and rewarded virtue - something they, as, I believe, I already deliberated enough in previous rants, are most emphatically NOT in the canon. So, let's make them such.
In my ideal Exalted, those who have great and potentially world-changing dreams, drives and ideals, as well as high Virtue ratings (although, mechahically, I believe existing Virtues should be discarded, because they sort of blow and two of them intersect with Willpower anyway, so make it Virtue-ratings-or-equivalents) exalt as Solars. The most common trigger for Solar Exaltation by far is braving great dangers in the pursuit of one's dream or in the defense of one's convictions. There are not set number of Solar Exaltations and everyone who qualifies gets one. Do note, that this scheme will not make Solars necessarily nice. People like Alexander the Great still will pass the Solar Exaltation test with flying colors. It will just stop shoehorning them into an inherently repulsive system.
If you want to ask how certain elements of the setting contingent on Exaltation shards work, Sidereals artificially dropped the probability of Solar Exaltations to almost nothing through a plot device of epic fate-screwing, until the joint Malfeas-Underworld infiltration team finally managed to wreck their stuff (resetting the possibility of Solar exaltations wasn't their goal, obviously, just a side effect). And Solars can tap into the memory bank of their precedessors, that exists to make them better reformators and leaders of men by allowing to learn on others' mistakes (memories of only one precedessor are chosen to avoid driving new Solars mad). There, easy as pie. As about what caused the Usurpation if Solars do not automatically become jaded practically immortal god-kings anymore, I'll cover it once we get to Sidereals, or separately, once I have thought it trough.
Mechanically, Solars should be good generalists, which means they aren't totally weak in anything, but not really great in any area, except the area of their shtick. Like in the canon, their Charms should be straightforward tools of doing stuff better. Unlike the canon, their Charms should geared towards wide and non-conditional applicability, but not also overwhelming power across the board. Their special schticks, where they are the best, should be diplomancy, and effects that influence large masses of men, making societies and organizations work better - rather than best in everything, they should be great leaders, that totally can make everything work best. Also, they probably should still have effects that burninate demons and living dead with holy light, making them good, rather than mediocre, against these particular opponents. They should not have special effects besides that, though. Laser eyebeams are OK, and a lightsaber is probably OK, but conjuring glowing armor and steeds out of nothing is probably too much. Their weakness should be lack of transformative powers that take them beyond human limits permanently or for indefinite duration and, therefore, necessity to constantly spend/commit Essence to keep their effects active.
Example character concepts for Solars: crowd-inciting demagogue, inspirational tactical genius, holy exorcist, mind-bending power behind the throne, enlightened minister, religious leader/living saint (or brainwashing cult leader too), wandering defender of the people.
Lunars should follow the same basic principles of Exaltation as Solars, but the conditions should be different. Lunar Exaltation won't be interested in grand goals, but rather in personal badassery and strong will to survive and persevere. It should be a relatively capricious force, not guaranteed to trigger even by the most heroic deeds, but sometimes rewarding weak and downthrodden for the most minute acts of defiance or simply descending to save people in hopeless situation. Lunars should be the most individualistic and diverse Exalted, often more interested in living their lives to the full, rather than championing one cause or another.
Mechanically, Lunars should still do shapeshifting bigtime (and much better than before, except at Essence levels deliberately set to be low-key - seriously, ignoring mechanical abstractions like perfect defenses, which interaction with actual stuff happening in the gameworld is very vague at best, only elders with unplayably high Essence levels ever have a hope of holding a candle to, say, virus!Merser from Prototype) and be the toughest general-purpose asskickers on the team. Their secondary schticks should be derived from shapeshifting and include infiltration and parts of social sphere where appearance is particularly beneficial, such as seduction. Otherwise their social powerset should be weak, and the area that is Solars' second great strength, i.e. powers that make you a great leader and affect the masses (or even benefit others in general), should be practically nonexistent for them. They should be below average in building stuff as well.
Example character concepts for Lunars: wandering fortune-seeker, great trickster, general who leads from the front, avenger of the past wrongs (and its dark mirror, nobody-to-nightmare), duty-bound warrior empowered, casanova/great temptress.
The thematic distinction between Solars and Lunars above needs a bit of elaboration, because the canon totally fucking fails to make this distinction in a satisfactory fashion. That's the main reason why Lunars were completely reenvisioned twice, and still failed to obtain a setting niche that is both non-retarted and meaningful in the present day of the setting (and mechanically they, in both editions, must whore very narrow shticks, related to hulking out and smashing stuff, or be just like Solars, except way worse). The only reason Lunar books sold at all probably is their status as the main bait for furries in the gameline. Thankfully, in my ideal Exalted, Solars shtick is no longer "being teh bestest and shitting on niche protection", so my task is much easier. I envision Solars as diplomancers and faciliators, whom you should play if players want to be revolutionaries and reformers, out to change the world right from the gate, and Lunars as individualists, more suited to classical adventuring. Of course, in mixed parties Solars should gravitate more to being "Face" (besides bringing various mass buffs to play), while Lunars obviously will be more inclined towards "Muscle" role (although they should have enough sneaking around, trickery and minscrew tricks suited for immediate combat/adventuring needs, rather than long-term persuasion/mindscrew to create a possibility of a diverse all-Lunar or mostly-Lunar party). Looking at the larger picture, neither splat should hold dominance in the setting to the point when it matters for PCs. Sure, Solars tend to be driven to the positions of authority by their very nature, but in the world of ridiculous superpowers the strongest asskicker around warming the throne, with the best politician taking up the role of his senechal and administrator is a perfectly viable model.
Sidereals? Their idea of the Exaltation by fate is actually sound. Canon doesn't really do anything interesting with it, though. (You're a future Sidereal from birth, so in nearly all cases you are found though fate-reading and kidnapped by existing Sidereals as soon as you are born, and raised as a Sidereal from childhood.) Instead, Fate should just place Sidereal Exaltations on mortals of various ages for reasons that often aren't at all understandable to those without the ability to predict future, and sometimes even to those who have some degree of this ability. This is specifically to allow Exalted who do not want their new responsibility (because they actually liked their previous lives, and because being snatched by Exalted In Black/Heavenly Freedom Fighters because your destiny suddenly said that you have a great and terrible responsibility, related to shaping the fates of the world/keeping the whole reality from dissolution, is no fun) and "who the hell could have a bright idea of Exalting this guy?" Exalted.
Mechanically, Sidereals should be Batman Wizards, except without overwhelming power. Their Charms should be geared to arraging the fights so that their side has all advantages, debuffing the enemy, and tinkering with the plot (starting from divinations and ending with direct fate hacking). They should be the best sorcerers of the current age too (although as I envision sorcery as universally and equally accessible to every splat, this will be an organizational rather than inherent advantage). They definitely should have the weakest Charms for both direct damage and defense from being directly attacked of all Exalted. Good stealth and impersonation suite, but no instant escape Charms, like Avoidance Kata, until high Essence levels, so they actually can be forced into combat without excessive plot contrivances.
Oh, and Arcane Fate (thing that makes everyone in the Creation forget about Sidereals, even if those Sidereals are in the same party as them for quite a time) will cease to exist. It serves no meaningful purpose except screwing with mixed parties. Sidereals can be semi-secret (i.e., with everyone truly important being in the know, one way or another) without it. Passing themselves for messengers of Heaven, when they cannot simply do everything stealthily or through dupes, isn't exactly hard or implausible. Because the world is full of extremely diverse divinities already.
Example character concepts for Sidereals: prophetic advisor, policeman of the heavens, divine hitman, manipulative chessmaster, power-lusting sorcerer, Exalt who is good enough to still be on the run.
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TheFlatline
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Re: Exalted I'm (Probably) Too Lazy To Write
There's a book by Tim Powers called Last Call that deals with this sort of. In it, The Fisher King is a title, that one can inherit, and sort of become "king of the world", or at least king of a continent. It's difficult, there's arcane rules involved, and in the end you stop being human per se and become sort of an avatar of one of the Jungian archetypes, able to access the collective human subconscious, consciously. It was an unexpectedly entertaining read and I recommend it strongly.FatR wrote:So, all Exalts should have the normal lifespan of no more 200-300 years. A few PCs that are absolutely indispensable for the setting, such as Scarlet Empress and old Kejak, will be explaned by plotdevice means of life extension (so you can kneecap Carjack by shutting down the manse that produces his heathstone of immortality, instead of battling him head-on), or actually being a role, instead of a person, assumed by a succession of magically potent people throughout the history.
Anyway, the idea that the Scarlett Empress is actually (and probably secretly) a title, and not a person, and that there's labyrinthe rules that you can follow (and even bend) to achieve that position and hold it, is actually really cool. You trade your identity for ungodly amounts of power that the archetype imposes on you.
For giggles, I threw this concept into my Dark Heresy game, where the Emperor was actually a new human archetype, and the Emperor's Tarot represented the major archetypes of the human psyche. The revelation baked my players minds and they talked about it, out of game, for like 3 weeks, just trying to realign what was previously a very defined setting in a totally new paradigm.
The problem of scope:
The Exalted books describe all kinds of wicked awesome sounding games and adventures you could run, generally while failing completely to actually be playable. This is where you're going to run into the single biggest challenge in an Exalted+ project (the one that brought me up short when I tried). It's actually a big chunk of the problem with D&D hacks too.
See, once you've decided, fuck it, we're by-the-word WW freelancers, why would we bother fulfilling design goals or delivering on our promises, the sky is the limit on what you can promise to do. You can in fact promise mutually incompatible things, and no one will notice or care more than the fact that you didn't deliver either. However, it does mean anyone trying to write "your game, but functional", is screwed.
Let's look at just the mechanical subsystems in exalted. You have:
--chaos subsystem with mutation rules, wyld geography, and nuymerous charms for traveling in and creating stuff out of the wyld.
--totally different and incompatible Shaping rules for Fey.
--mass combat subsystem. (Bonus challenge: Some PCs can personally murder infinite numbers of soldiers. Yet investing resources in leadership is supposed to be a valid life choice.)
--"Mandate of Heaven" simcity/populous subsystem
--"normal adventuring" ruleset, where you model andresolve actions like stabbing individual fools, setting wounds, and individual conversations.
--"narrative level" ruleset. On the other hand, there are really high-levle effects that let you declare that things just happen. Sidereals and SMA are the big offenders (and gods), but some Solar charms are like this too, especially the Night caste. The right Stealth and Larceny charms make you literally undetectable and able to steal anything without being noticed, so you no longer play out an infiltration game like in Shadowrun, you just declare "I steal the crown of storms from the prefect of paragon" and move on to the next part of the game.
I hope I don't have to explain to you that these are in fact different games. How are you supposed to coherently write adventures for a "party" consisting of:
A Night Caste with the auto-win stealth, disguise, and theft powers.
An Eclipse with all the charms that carry into Mandate.
A Twilight with all the chaos-shaping charms.
A Zenith with martial arts and mindfuckery that works on people he personally talks to.
Basically you get two problems. One is getting the players to even care about interacting with the same things. If your Night wants to kick around the blessed isle causing trouble, your Zenith wants to unify the hundred kingdoms, and your Twilight wants to explore chaos, you don't have a game. That's a problem that arises in every system, obviously but Exalted is worse because of the enormous scope of options presented. Your choices are to convince everyone to play the story of the Zenith who rules and unifies the land the Twilight conjures out of chaos while the Night steals shit from the Fey lords, or decide what the game is actually about and write that, saving you much time but alienating some fans.
The other problem is deciding the "scale" of play. Which of these sounds like the "default" adventure to you?
A Dragonblood legion has moved into Gem! Stay out form the watchful eyes of the Order while you follow clues to the artifact they came looking for, all while fighting a turf war with a rival gang.
A mysterious plague spreads in the Eastlands, followed soon after by communes of anarchistic doomsayers. Fey exploit the chaos to steal the outlying holdings.
Some abilities can apply at more than one level--you could *have* the ability to change the attitudes of an entire country in the first game, and *use it* to make the Order unpopular so that the legion had fewer allies. But you should really decide from the beginning whether you ever intend to spend a long time modeling one brawl in the streets or the exploration of one haunted tower.
---
PS, mixed-exalt parties: one hundred times worse. Every new splat has a new place to do things no one else would want to go (Siddies can and should go to heaven, no one else can or has reason to. Same for abyssals and underworld.)
The Exalted books describe all kinds of wicked awesome sounding games and adventures you could run, generally while failing completely to actually be playable. This is where you're going to run into the single biggest challenge in an Exalted+ project (the one that brought me up short when I tried). It's actually a big chunk of the problem with D&D hacks too.
See, once you've decided, fuck it, we're by-the-word WW freelancers, why would we bother fulfilling design goals or delivering on our promises, the sky is the limit on what you can promise to do. You can in fact promise mutually incompatible things, and no one will notice or care more than the fact that you didn't deliver either. However, it does mean anyone trying to write "your game, but functional", is screwed.
Let's look at just the mechanical subsystems in exalted. You have:
--chaos subsystem with mutation rules, wyld geography, and nuymerous charms for traveling in and creating stuff out of the wyld.
--totally different and incompatible Shaping rules for Fey.
--mass combat subsystem. (Bonus challenge: Some PCs can personally murder infinite numbers of soldiers. Yet investing resources in leadership is supposed to be a valid life choice.)
--"Mandate of Heaven" simcity/populous subsystem
--"normal adventuring" ruleset, where you model andresolve actions like stabbing individual fools, setting wounds, and individual conversations.
--"narrative level" ruleset. On the other hand, there are really high-levle effects that let you declare that things just happen. Sidereals and SMA are the big offenders (and gods), but some Solar charms are like this too, especially the Night caste. The right Stealth and Larceny charms make you literally undetectable and able to steal anything without being noticed, so you no longer play out an infiltration game like in Shadowrun, you just declare "I steal the crown of storms from the prefect of paragon" and move on to the next part of the game.
I hope I don't have to explain to you that these are in fact different games. How are you supposed to coherently write adventures for a "party" consisting of:
A Night Caste with the auto-win stealth, disguise, and theft powers.
An Eclipse with all the charms that carry into Mandate.
A Twilight with all the chaos-shaping charms.
A Zenith with martial arts and mindfuckery that works on people he personally talks to.
Basically you get two problems. One is getting the players to even care about interacting with the same things. If your Night wants to kick around the blessed isle causing trouble, your Zenith wants to unify the hundred kingdoms, and your Twilight wants to explore chaos, you don't have a game. That's a problem that arises in every system, obviously but Exalted is worse because of the enormous scope of options presented. Your choices are to convince everyone to play the story of the Zenith who rules and unifies the land the Twilight conjures out of chaos while the Night steals shit from the Fey lords, or decide what the game is actually about and write that, saving you much time but alienating some fans.
The other problem is deciding the "scale" of play. Which of these sounds like the "default" adventure to you?
A Dragonblood legion has moved into Gem! Stay out form the watchful eyes of the Order while you follow clues to the artifact they came looking for, all while fighting a turf war with a rival gang.
A mysterious plague spreads in the Eastlands, followed soon after by communes of anarchistic doomsayers. Fey exploit the chaos to steal the outlying holdings.
Some abilities can apply at more than one level--you could *have* the ability to change the attitudes of an entire country in the first game, and *use it* to make the Order unpopular so that the legion had fewer allies. But you should really decide from the beginning whether you ever intend to spend a long time modeling one brawl in the streets or the exploration of one haunted tower.
---
PS, mixed-exalt parties: one hundred times worse. Every new splat has a new place to do things no one else would want to go (Siddies can and should go to heaven, no one else can or has reason to. Same for abyssals and underworld.)
My usual suggestion: you need at least three different rule-sets.
- individual scounting and combat
- unit combat
- realm simulation and divine conflict
The rule-sets should be divided by Essence: above a certain level of Essence you CANNOT fight using the individual rules, you can use only the unit combat rules (as you are stronger than a typical unit by yourself). Finally, at highest level you command your realm, and when you fight, it is an apocalyptic battle.
- individual scounting and combat
- unit combat
- realm simulation and divine conflict
The rule-sets should be divided by Essence: above a certain level of Essence you CANNOT fight using the individual rules, you can use only the unit combat rules (as you are stronger than a typical unit by yourself). Finally, at highest level you command your realm, and when you fight, it is an apocalyptic battle.
"Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat."
That's fine, but it does nothing about the utterly non-overlapping magisteria characters are encouraged to specialize in.
If your PCs are Chaos guy, Heavenly Politics guy, and Army-leading guy, then either *every adventure* has to involve chaos, heaven, and armies, or you don't have a party. There's essentially no precedent, no stories I'm aware of for inspiration you could look to write essentially an ensemble show with a cast of gods. Nowhere in mythology or fantasy do gods work together in "coteries" to accomplish shared goals except in some very abstract foundation myths (a long time ago the, the olympians deposed the tiants, etc.)
If your PCs are Chaos guy, Heavenly Politics guy, and Army-leading guy, then either *every adventure* has to involve chaos, heaven, and armies, or you don't have a party. There's essentially no precedent, no stories I'm aware of for inspiration you could look to write essentially an ensemble show with a cast of gods. Nowhere in mythology or fantasy do gods work together in "coteries" to accomplish shared goals except in some very abstract foundation myths (a long time ago the, the olympians deposed the tiants, etc.)
There are three problems you're describing here, Orion, methinks.
1)Profileration of suck-ass subsystems, most of which shut off people who aren't specialized in exploiting them out of the gameplay.
2)Lack of a coherent, self-consistent picture of what PCs are supposed to actually do in the game and what the actual gameplay should look like. For example, the social system, Mandate of Heaven and some other Charm trees (Solar Survival, etc) assume that having leading armies of mortal extras is somehow a big deal, while in combat reality mortals don't matter, like, at all.
3)Poorly-thought out powers with absolute or extremely open-ended effects given to PCs early. In other words, broken shit, that completely tranforms the game in a setting that is not written to handle such transofrmation in any other way than stomping on the party with uber-NPCs. Can intersect with the problem #1, such as in the case of Solar Stealth. Which is awesome when you just steal stuff, but is useless the moment you try to actually help fighting same-level opponent (in fact, unless the stealth monkey is also a perfect turtle too, this will only lead to him getting killed).
1)Profileration of suck-ass subsystems, most of which shut off people who aren't specialized in exploiting them out of the gameplay.
2)Lack of a coherent, self-consistent picture of what PCs are supposed to actually do in the game and what the actual gameplay should look like. For example, the social system, Mandate of Heaven and some other Charm trees (Solar Survival, etc) assume that having leading armies of mortal extras is somehow a big deal, while in combat reality mortals don't matter, like, at all.
3)Poorly-thought out powers with absolute or extremely open-ended effects given to PCs early. In other words, broken shit, that completely tranforms the game in a setting that is not written to handle such transofrmation in any other way than stomping on the party with uber-NPCs. Can intersect with the problem #1, such as in the case of Solar Stealth. Which is awesome when you just steal stuff, but is useless the moment you try to actually help fighting same-level opponent (in fact, unless the stealth monkey is also a perfect turtle too, this will only lead to him getting killed).
That's basically it. I would add the caveat that I don't think absolute effects are a terrible thing, necessarily--they're a distinctive feature of the system possibly worth exploring. But if that's the way you're rolling you need up the standard unit of resolution: you can't be modeling every cut and thrust in a game with solar stealth.
One solution is to make everything granular, the other is to give out Dawn charms that auto-win confrontations. (Perfects already do that against people who don't have them, so cut the crap and give out "invincible warrior technique: spend 4m1w and 1 minute to autokill all nonexalts in the area, who can take no action during that time except an athletics roll to escape.)
One solution is to make everything granular, the other is to give out Dawn charms that auto-win confrontations. (Perfects already do that against people who don't have them, so cut the crap and give out "invincible warrior technique: spend 4m1w and 1 minute to autokill all nonexalts in the area, who can take no action during that time except an athletics roll to escape.)
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Username17
- Serious Badass
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Caveat: I found the whole "wilds" (wylds?) stuff so uninteresting that I couldn't read it. I don't really know what they are "supposed" to do.
Sounds like you want a 4X game. With each portion of it having bearing on each other portion of it.
But for an RPG, you're going to be forced to devote full face time to issuing mandates or proselytizing people about your latest social reform ideas or wandering around in the blackness looking for treasure or stabbing monsters in the face. Which means that everyone has to be doing something meaningful during all four of those game facets.
The battlefield is, for all the hand wringing done over it, the easiest part. You go with the L5R model. Not the RPG, the card game. You have characters that have battle strength and a separate dueling strength. Battle strength can can be enhanced by tiny men and by magical goremauls. Both methods of increasing battle strength have accompanying advantages and disadvantages, and you work to balance them somehow.
Where it gets complicated is getting people interested in the other three facets of your 4X scenario:
Sounds like you want a 4X game. With each portion of it having bearing on each other portion of it.
- Explore
- Administrate
- Persuade
- Conquer
But for an RPG, you're going to be forced to devote full face time to issuing mandates or proselytizing people about your latest social reform ideas or wandering around in the blackness looking for treasure or stabbing monsters in the face. Which means that everyone has to be doing something meaningful during all four of those game facets.
The battlefield is, for all the hand wringing done over it, the easiest part. You go with the L5R model. Not the RPG, the card game. You have characters that have battle strength and a separate dueling strength. Battle strength can can be enhanced by tiny men and by magical goremauls. Both methods of increasing battle strength have accompanying advantages and disadvantages, and you work to balance them somehow.
Where it gets complicated is getting people interested in the other three facets of your 4X scenario:
- Administration
- Gives you access to spy networks that boost your Exploration deal.
- Makes your way of life more attractive and puts you on a better footing for Persuasion.
- Makes your troops better, giving you bonuses on Conquest.
- Exploration
- Gets more territory and resources for you to Administrate.
- Gets you equipment to get bonuses to Conquer with.
- Gives you information and crap you can trade and use in Persuasion.
- Persuasion
- Reduces unrest, making Administration go better.
- Lets you neutralize enemy tiny men, thereby making it easier to Conquer them.
- Something Something for Exploration.
Absolute effects, as presented in Exalted, are terrible. As soon as GM is not willing you automatically win the situation and your opponents whip perfect effects of their own, to not be owned like chumps, you run into "irresistible force, immovable object situation". Which, currently, is decided by roll-off in all forms of contests except combat (which perfects wreck for other reasons, I described long ago). Why not to simply roll-off them, as all people in the game do, without inserting extra pieces of mechanical complexity, particularly as your modifiers probably are sufficiently high to easily overwhelm any mooks?
Moreover, introducing absolute effects at what is supposed to be early stages of character advancement is a bad idea. Because you don't really have anywhere to advance after you get the ability to Just Win. Exalted 2E makes abilities like this sort of fake (see above), but you still don't really have anywhere to advance except pumping up relevant roll-off numbers.
Assuming Essence scale from 1-5, where 1 dot makes you action hero/low-end wuxia hero, and 5 dots give you unlimited cosmic power, you probably shouldn't get "true" all-encompassing perfects until 5 dots. Now stuff like "succeeding things within certain boudaries of difficulty without a roll" (so your hero won't accidentally fail his awesome acrobatics or whatever), and later, "automatically succeding in an unopposed task within a certain purview" (so you can totally can hold the whole sky on your shoulders, like Hercules, even if otherwise your abilities are not that ridiculous) can be given earlier.
Frank, thanks for the thoughts too. Mechanical attention to social affairs /administration stuff seems to be an important part of Exalted, even if the practical implementation of these subsystems totally blows. So, while, to be honest, I'm personally more interested in stabbing faces in oversized swords, ideal Exalted should somehow integrate them.
Moreover, introducing absolute effects at what is supposed to be early stages of character advancement is a bad idea. Because you don't really have anywhere to advance after you get the ability to Just Win. Exalted 2E makes abilities like this sort of fake (see above), but you still don't really have anywhere to advance except pumping up relevant roll-off numbers.
Assuming Essence scale from 1-5, where 1 dot makes you action hero/low-end wuxia hero, and 5 dots give you unlimited cosmic power, you probably shouldn't get "true" all-encompassing perfects until 5 dots. Now stuff like "succeeding things within certain boudaries of difficulty without a roll" (so your hero won't accidentally fail his awesome acrobatics or whatever), and later, "automatically succeding in an unopposed task within a certain purview" (so you can totally can hold the whole sky on your shoulders, like Hercules, even if otherwise your abilities are not that ridiculous) can be given earlier.
Frank, thanks for the thoughts too. Mechanical attention to social affairs /administration stuff seems to be an important part of Exalted, even if the practical implementation of these subsystems totally blows. So, while, to be honest, I'm personally more interested in stabbing faces in oversized swords, ideal Exalted should somehow integrate them.
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Username17
- Serious Badass
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The implementation of "just winning" seems pretty simple to me. If your modifier exceeds the target by X, you "just win". It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that, getting +2 is simply 2 more things that your are perfect against.
Like the aWoD rule for buying hits, but all the time. Even, perhaps especially in stressful situations. You're frickin Exalts, if a 1/3 hit ratio is enough to make you win, you just win. No rolling, just unzipping.
-Username17
Like the aWoD rule for buying hits, but all the time. Even, perhaps especially in stressful situations. You're frickin Exalts, if a 1/3 hit ratio is enough to make you win, you just win. No rolling, just unzipping.
-Username17
More about splats.
Abyssals? The main flaw of canonical Abyssals (besides being saddled with all-powerful Evil Overlords as bosses and the splat goal to destroy the world) is mechanical baggage, intended to keep them dark and evil, actually working very well. This is bad, because people who want to play Angsty Poet of Self-Pity the Abyssal probably are less than excited when their Resonance actually starts blowing up NPCs, particularly NPCs relevant to their personal dramas. While people who want to play Killfuck Soulshitter the Abyssal probalby don't really need to be prodded towards more murder and mayhem.
So, in my ideal Exalted, people who were prime candidates for an Exaltation of any other sort, but unfortunately bit the dust before actually getting it, might become Abyssals. They rise as empowered half-corpses, who need to drink blood or absorb ghostly Essence to recharge their magic juice. They don't suffer from Better Than You bosses or being hardcoded by fate to bring destruction to the world. While they might hear whispers of dead titans in their head, these are just powerless whispers. In fact, they are newcomers on the scene and the wild card in power games of both the Underworld and the Creation. While their feeding habits and power suite makes them naturally predisposed towards solving all problems by killing things and reanimating them as minions, exactly to the degree where Angsty Poet of Self-Pity can get his self-pity on, they are not naturally "evil". Come on, vampires of free-willed sort had a ton of nonlethal solutions to the problem of blood-drinking - without power of demigods.
Oh, and it is trendy among Abyssals to discard their old names and replace them with something pretentiously-sounding. Maybe because their Exaltation is so traumatic and transformative, maybe because the first Abyssal group to reach widespread fame set this trend.
Mechanically, Abyssals should do necromantic tricks naturally. (I don't think we need Necromancy as the dark mirror of Sorcery. Most of the things it does can just be rolled into Sorcery, and the rest can become Abyssal Charms.) Tricks like draining mooks for power and turning their their bodies or ghosts into minions on the spot should come naturally to Abyssals, turning them from simply competent to very powerful, when there actually are mooks around they can brutalize. Socially they should be geared towards obvious mind rape, or, at best, deceiving really well. Abyssals' flaw should be lack of "nice" powers that don't involve murder or clearly hostile mental intrusion, or making things, except making things from bodies of their fallen foes.
Example character concepts for Abyssals: ambassador of the dead, avenger from beyond the grave, dark overlord, Underworld revolutionary, reluctant warrior, preacher of Nirvana Oblivion (maybe violent, maybe not).
Infernals, among all Exalts, are, ironically, the only ones, whose Exaltation mechahic is exact and obvious, the only ones whom (fallen) divine beings personally imbue with power. For the others Exaltation works pretty much automatically. To receive Getter Rays infusion Green Sun Prince's power, a would-be Infernal must willingly and on his own travel to Malfeas and pledge himself to Demon Princes, hoping that they see him fit to serve their goals ("officially" these are getting free, casting the traitor gods in a fiery pit for all eternity, removing all possible threats to their domination and reclaiming their dominion over all that is, yet not all Yozi even hope these are possible, and almost all have their own plans and schemes, so they might accept even seemingly unlikely candidates). In the previous ages, would-be Infernals needed to be actively recruited and to reach Malfeas on their own power, which limited their number to a very few enlightened mortals, but since a few years ago, road to the Endless Desert opens by itself to those who wishe to dare such a journey and have a sufficient talent to possibly survive it; sometimes also to those who know nothing of Malfeas, but are driven to despair, self-loathing or hate towards the world by events and forces they were poweless to stop. Those who step onto the path before them, face many perils and tests, and far from all of them reach their destination. Even less survive Yozis' judgement/transformation into Infernals (which might be one and the same). Still, the numbers of Infernals swelled recently.
Despite the process of their Exaltation, Infernals have as much free will as any Exalted. Although Yozis are not bound to obey further orders of Celestial Incarna by their terms of imprisonment in my setting, "not being a glorified puppet" is a key ingredient for the Exaltation. It is just that Infernals have actual candidate screening, so people blatantly willing to defect right after getting sweet, sweet power are highly unlikely to get an Infernal exaltation. Besides, Yozis actually treat their new servants well, and give them unprecented (by the standards of Hell) degree of freedom as long as they put at least some effort towards the grand goal. They advise, and they manipulate, but as long as an Infernal does not blatantly give them the finger, they are willing to let him choose what to do. Yozis know, that they need willing cooperation of their Infernals, so they, ideally, seek to cultivate positive attachments to demonkind and themselves personaly among them (or at least Yozis try as best at they can), although animosity and hatred towards Yozis' enemies also can work in a pinch. It also should be noted, that while many, perhaps most, of the Infernals are quite damaged people, you can hardly find simple sell-outs and losers who wish to fix their problems witn an easy fix of power among them. These are unlikely to even reach the Demon City.
Mechanically, I wholeheartedly support the idea of Infernals as baby Primordials. This means that their schticks should be environment manipulation, minion summoning and tranformative Charms that define their new nature. This also means that they probably should be the splat with the most freedom to choose their theme and direction of their development. I'm not sure about Infernals being restricted by their patron Yozi themes. At least they should be explicitly able to take a part of the theme and take it in a whole new direction. In general, they should suck at subtlety, at appearing normal, and they should be shafted by being put in environments/situations to which they are adverse (if not to the extent they are in canon, where if you use Malfeas Charms you just fucking die if you are forced to fight outside of a city).
Example character concepts for Infernals: general of Hell, wannabe Creation destroyer, prophet of Yozis, scourge of the corrupt world (or healer of the corrupt world, although this is obviously far more unusual), transcedence seeker, first reformer ever in the Demon City.
EDIT: Oh, and fuck akuma, there are none of them, and never were any. Even after MotEP: Infernals tried to redeem their concept somewhat, they still went back to pure Yozi puppets that have much less free will and purpose of their own, than actual parts of Yozis, right after that; and they serve no real purpose in the setting, other than providing opponents you can stab in the face without doubt.
Abyssals? The main flaw of canonical Abyssals (besides being saddled with all-powerful Evil Overlords as bosses and the splat goal to destroy the world) is mechanical baggage, intended to keep them dark and evil, actually working very well. This is bad, because people who want to play Angsty Poet of Self-Pity the Abyssal probably are less than excited when their Resonance actually starts blowing up NPCs, particularly NPCs relevant to their personal dramas. While people who want to play Killfuck Soulshitter the Abyssal probalby don't really need to be prodded towards more murder and mayhem.
So, in my ideal Exalted, people who were prime candidates for an Exaltation of any other sort, but unfortunately bit the dust before actually getting it, might become Abyssals. They rise as empowered half-corpses, who need to drink blood or absorb ghostly Essence to recharge their magic juice. They don't suffer from Better Than You bosses or being hardcoded by fate to bring destruction to the world. While they might hear whispers of dead titans in their head, these are just powerless whispers. In fact, they are newcomers on the scene and the wild card in power games of both the Underworld and the Creation. While their feeding habits and power suite makes them naturally predisposed towards solving all problems by killing things and reanimating them as minions, exactly to the degree where Angsty Poet of Self-Pity can get his self-pity on, they are not naturally "evil". Come on, vampires of free-willed sort had a ton of nonlethal solutions to the problem of blood-drinking - without power of demigods.
Oh, and it is trendy among Abyssals to discard their old names and replace them with something pretentiously-sounding. Maybe because their Exaltation is so traumatic and transformative, maybe because the first Abyssal group to reach widespread fame set this trend.
Mechanically, Abyssals should do necromantic tricks naturally. (I don't think we need Necromancy as the dark mirror of Sorcery. Most of the things it does can just be rolled into Sorcery, and the rest can become Abyssal Charms.) Tricks like draining mooks for power and turning their their bodies or ghosts into minions on the spot should come naturally to Abyssals, turning them from simply competent to very powerful, when there actually are mooks around they can brutalize. Socially they should be geared towards obvious mind rape, or, at best, deceiving really well. Abyssals' flaw should be lack of "nice" powers that don't involve murder or clearly hostile mental intrusion, or making things, except making things from bodies of their fallen foes.
Example character concepts for Abyssals: ambassador of the dead, avenger from beyond the grave, dark overlord, Underworld revolutionary, reluctant warrior, preacher of Nirvana Oblivion (maybe violent, maybe not).
Infernals, among all Exalts, are, ironically, the only ones, whose Exaltation mechahic is exact and obvious, the only ones whom (fallen) divine beings personally imbue with power. For the others Exaltation works pretty much automatically. To receive Getter Rays infusion Green Sun Prince's power, a would-be Infernal must willingly and on his own travel to Malfeas and pledge himself to Demon Princes, hoping that they see him fit to serve their goals ("officially" these are getting free, casting the traitor gods in a fiery pit for all eternity, removing all possible threats to their domination and reclaiming their dominion over all that is, yet not all Yozi even hope these are possible, and almost all have their own plans and schemes, so they might accept even seemingly unlikely candidates). In the previous ages, would-be Infernals needed to be actively recruited and to reach Malfeas on their own power, which limited their number to a very few enlightened mortals, but since a few years ago, road to the Endless Desert opens by itself to those who wishe to dare such a journey and have a sufficient talent to possibly survive it; sometimes also to those who know nothing of Malfeas, but are driven to despair, self-loathing or hate towards the world by events and forces they were poweless to stop. Those who step onto the path before them, face many perils and tests, and far from all of them reach their destination. Even less survive Yozis' judgement/transformation into Infernals (which might be one and the same). Still, the numbers of Infernals swelled recently.
Despite the process of their Exaltation, Infernals have as much free will as any Exalted. Although Yozis are not bound to obey further orders of Celestial Incarna by their terms of imprisonment in my setting, "not being a glorified puppet" is a key ingredient for the Exaltation. It is just that Infernals have actual candidate screening, so people blatantly willing to defect right after getting sweet, sweet power are highly unlikely to get an Infernal exaltation. Besides, Yozis actually treat their new servants well, and give them unprecented (by the standards of Hell) degree of freedom as long as they put at least some effort towards the grand goal. They advise, and they manipulate, but as long as an Infernal does not blatantly give them the finger, they are willing to let him choose what to do. Yozis know, that they need willing cooperation of their Infernals, so they, ideally, seek to cultivate positive attachments to demonkind and themselves personaly among them (or at least Yozis try as best at they can), although animosity and hatred towards Yozis' enemies also can work in a pinch. It also should be noted, that while many, perhaps most, of the Infernals are quite damaged people, you can hardly find simple sell-outs and losers who wish to fix their problems witn an easy fix of power among them. These are unlikely to even reach the Demon City.
Mechanically, I wholeheartedly support the idea of Infernals as baby Primordials. This means that their schticks should be environment manipulation, minion summoning and tranformative Charms that define their new nature. This also means that they probably should be the splat with the most freedom to choose their theme and direction of their development. I'm not sure about Infernals being restricted by their patron Yozi themes. At least they should be explicitly able to take a part of the theme and take it in a whole new direction. In general, they should suck at subtlety, at appearing normal, and they should be shafted by being put in environments/situations to which they are adverse (if not to the extent they are in canon, where if you use Malfeas Charms you just fucking die if you are forced to fight outside of a city).
Example character concepts for Infernals: general of Hell, wannabe Creation destroyer, prophet of Yozis, scourge of the corrupt world (or healer of the corrupt world, although this is obviously far more unusual), transcedence seeker, first reformer ever in the Demon City.
EDIT: Oh, and fuck akuma, there are none of them, and never were any. Even after MotEP: Infernals tried to redeem their concept somewhat, they still went back to pure Yozi puppets that have much less free will and purpose of their own, than actual parts of Yozis, right after that; and they serve no real purpose in the setting, other than providing opponents you can stab in the face without doubt.
Last edited by FatR on Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RiotGearEpsilon
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- Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts
On the problem of scope.
Orion raised an important question above: which should be the default power level the setting of Dream Exalted is best suited for in the long term and which should be the power level allowing you to actually win Exalted?
For a mandatory mini-rant, the canon never quite pinned this down. It's really obvious, for example, that 2E Solars, whatever other flaws the system might have, actually do possess pretty crazy power level, that allows him to completely curbstomp anyone and everyone without at least Celestial-level Charms, and rewrite political maps for pretty large tracts of land in a matter of days, and pull off some fairly legendary stuff.
But fiction, adventures and the setting as a whole do not recognize this, like, at all. In chapter introductory comics for 2E Solars (and other Exalted) tend to do fairly unimpressive stuff, that almost without exception fits within five first levels of DnD 3.X. A few exceptions (Dace riding along a spine chain - centipede-like necromantic siege machine - and that Infernal guy vaporizing a giant) still fit within the first nine. Published adventures tend to be goddamn fetch quests, where PCs spend most of the time running errands for NPCs who are supposed to be Better Than Them. Once again, so low-level.
And the vast majority setting is quite low-level too, at least as presented in fluff. The Realm Dragon-Blooded are usually treated by fluff as fighters/TOB Classes (if Immaculates) between 3rd-6th level who often have a few decent magic items. Things somewhere between ogres and ettins in power are quite a big deal to them, and they are really dependent on their troops even when dealing with common mortals. Minor rogue spirits already demand Immaculate-level firepower. Of course, mortal kingdoms that take up most of the world aren't even that good. Neither they are particularly wondrous and full of awesome for a setting that positions itself as an ultimate fantasy kitchen sink. Stuff like bullshit-powered dirigibles, riding birds and talking animals (each of that separately) basically makes your land a place of wonder and a candidate for marysuetopia, compared to the average lands of dirt farmers. Not even going into Underworld or Yu-Shan, while providing more wondrous scenery, will give competently-built Celestials much challenge until they run into one of the uber-NPCs camping major plot points.
I dwell on this because the lack of satisfactory by-the-book opposition to PCs was one of my constant problems when GMing Exalted (90% of the stuff in Creatures of the Wild are not challenging at competent DBs level, Games of Divinity was quickly tapped out, and 2E NPC books were at least one edition too late), and because I returned to DnD in large parts because I found that DnD really has more cool and magical creatures at the level PCs generally interact with.
So, anyway, this means that we must establish several power levels for the Dream Exalted. At least we should have a power level that allows PCs to have adventures across the map (without conquering most of what they come across in the first session), a power level that allows PCs to interact with major power players of the world without getting squashed, and a power level that allows them to directly duke it out with Primordial-level entities, therefore winning Exalted in case of success (obviously the rest of the setting is their play-doh even before that point). These levels should be codified in character traits, primarily in Essence rating. And it should be determined, what sorts of abilties are appropriate for each Essence level.
For example:
Essence 1: Action/low-end wuxia hero, with a few more obvious magic tricks, no uber-skills that put you leagues beyond the best mortals, your Essence just ensures that you won't accidentally die like a bitch and gives you some cool options. The level at which you are supposed to have sword and sorcery adventures across the face of Creation, without moving and shaking the world whenever you go (without plot McGuffins that is).
Essence 2-3 (difference between 2 and 3 still needs more thought): superhero/shonen hero. You do get uber-skills, the most hardcore mortals are mooks before you. Running up the walls or turning normal people into your friends/followers in one scene is no longer worth mentioning and you start doing major supernatural shit, like throwing fireballs, or raising zombies, with little effort. At Essence 3 your supernatual shit grows crazier, things like permanent flight, outright mind rape, or summoning/becoming kaiju are now commonplace. Mortals, no matter the numbers are basically scenery, maybe mildly penaltizing environment, to you, and Essence 1 characters are little better off. The level at which you are supposed to interact with the main plots of the game, the default play level. Assumption is that Essence 3 is quite uncommon even among Exalted, possessed only by a few dozens of outstanding, badass heroes across the entire world.
Essence 4: Superman/Son Goku. You can deal with things like Everest-sized dragons and angry, tortured titans, at have at least some chance to kick their asses/to convince them that they should calm down and chill out with your awesome magical tea party. If things like mortal countries piss you off you have potential to erase them from the map without really trying. The setting shouldn't really have any NPCs of this level active and free by default. This also the last level where you can interact with any parts of the default plots without just declaring that you win.
Essence 5: Reality warpers without their usual plot incompetence. At this level you get the power level of a full-blown, non-crippled Primordial (something that the canon gives Solar-level Exalts at Essence 10, i.e, not on your life). Your challenges are stuff like trying to punch the universal constants in the face until they change to your liking, or creating new worlds. Solving the problems of Creation is basically the matter of creatively applying your Charms. As this is Dream Exalted, let's pretend that it is possible for the system to make at least as much sense as level 20 DnD (which is admittedly not very much) at this point.
Orion raised an important question above: which should be the default power level the setting of Dream Exalted is best suited for in the long term and which should be the power level allowing you to actually win Exalted?
For a mandatory mini-rant, the canon never quite pinned this down. It's really obvious, for example, that 2E Solars, whatever other flaws the system might have, actually do possess pretty crazy power level, that allows him to completely curbstomp anyone and everyone without at least Celestial-level Charms, and rewrite political maps for pretty large tracts of land in a matter of days, and pull off some fairly legendary stuff.
But fiction, adventures and the setting as a whole do not recognize this, like, at all. In chapter introductory comics for 2E Solars (and other Exalted) tend to do fairly unimpressive stuff, that almost without exception fits within five first levels of DnD 3.X. A few exceptions (Dace riding along a spine chain - centipede-like necromantic siege machine - and that Infernal guy vaporizing a giant) still fit within the first nine. Published adventures tend to be goddamn fetch quests, where PCs spend most of the time running errands for NPCs who are supposed to be Better Than Them. Once again, so low-level.
And the vast majority setting is quite low-level too, at least as presented in fluff. The Realm Dragon-Blooded are usually treated by fluff as fighters/TOB Classes (if Immaculates) between 3rd-6th level who often have a few decent magic items. Things somewhere between ogres and ettins in power are quite a big deal to them, and they are really dependent on their troops even when dealing with common mortals. Minor rogue spirits already demand Immaculate-level firepower. Of course, mortal kingdoms that take up most of the world aren't even that good. Neither they are particularly wondrous and full of awesome for a setting that positions itself as an ultimate fantasy kitchen sink. Stuff like bullshit-powered dirigibles, riding birds and talking animals (each of that separately) basically makes your land a place of wonder and a candidate for marysuetopia, compared to the average lands of dirt farmers. Not even going into Underworld or Yu-Shan, while providing more wondrous scenery, will give competently-built Celestials much challenge until they run into one of the uber-NPCs camping major plot points.
I dwell on this because the lack of satisfactory by-the-book opposition to PCs was one of my constant problems when GMing Exalted (90% of the stuff in Creatures of the Wild are not challenging at competent DBs level, Games of Divinity was quickly tapped out, and 2E NPC books were at least one edition too late), and because I returned to DnD in large parts because I found that DnD really has more cool and magical creatures at the level PCs generally interact with.
So, anyway, this means that we must establish several power levels for the Dream Exalted. At least we should have a power level that allows PCs to have adventures across the map (without conquering most of what they come across in the first session), a power level that allows PCs to interact with major power players of the world without getting squashed, and a power level that allows them to directly duke it out with Primordial-level entities, therefore winning Exalted in case of success (obviously the rest of the setting is their play-doh even before that point). These levels should be codified in character traits, primarily in Essence rating. And it should be determined, what sorts of abilties are appropriate for each Essence level.
For example:
Essence 1: Action/low-end wuxia hero, with a few more obvious magic tricks, no uber-skills that put you leagues beyond the best mortals, your Essence just ensures that you won't accidentally die like a bitch and gives you some cool options. The level at which you are supposed to have sword and sorcery adventures across the face of Creation, without moving and shaking the world whenever you go (without plot McGuffins that is).
Essence 2-3 (difference between 2 and 3 still needs more thought): superhero/shonen hero. You do get uber-skills, the most hardcore mortals are mooks before you. Running up the walls or turning normal people into your friends/followers in one scene is no longer worth mentioning and you start doing major supernatural shit, like throwing fireballs, or raising zombies, with little effort. At Essence 3 your supernatual shit grows crazier, things like permanent flight, outright mind rape, or summoning/becoming kaiju are now commonplace. Mortals, no matter the numbers are basically scenery, maybe mildly penaltizing environment, to you, and Essence 1 characters are little better off. The level at which you are supposed to interact with the main plots of the game, the default play level. Assumption is that Essence 3 is quite uncommon even among Exalted, possessed only by a few dozens of outstanding, badass heroes across the entire world.
Essence 4: Superman/Son Goku. You can deal with things like Everest-sized dragons and angry, tortured titans, at have at least some chance to kick their asses/to convince them that they should calm down and chill out with your awesome magical tea party. If things like mortal countries piss you off you have potential to erase them from the map without really trying. The setting shouldn't really have any NPCs of this level active and free by default. This also the last level where you can interact with any parts of the default plots without just declaring that you win.
Essence 5: Reality warpers without their usual plot incompetence. At this level you get the power level of a full-blown, non-crippled Primordial (something that the canon gives Solar-level Exalts at Essence 10, i.e, not on your life). Your challenges are stuff like trying to punch the universal constants in the face until they change to your liking, or creating new worlds. Solving the problems of Creation is basically the matter of creatively applying your Charms. As this is Dream Exalted, let's pretend that it is possible for the system to make at least as much sense as level 20 DnD (which is admittedly not very much) at this point.
On the problem of scope (Continued).
So, on the scale above, things that can subjugate a village, terrorize a countryside or hunt mortals for food, but aren't supposed to do things like walking into a walled city alone and butchering their way through, get Essence 1. Mundane mortal countries are supposed to be able to deal with them, by diplomacy, getting some of them for your own, or otherwise, without stopping being mundane mortal countries, unless they appear in overwhelming numbers.
Minor spirits, normal ghosts, First Circle demons, average sentient Dragon Kings, fae commoners, people and animals who got biology-defying mutations in the Wyld, Dragonblooded mooks and young Exalted in general fall into this category. Godlings, enlightened mortals and other "knock-off Essence users" also have Essence 1 and cannot ever increase it. Beastmen, minor mutants, and demihuman races, like Djala, on the other hand, count as mortals.
It is important to note, that my Dream Exalted should really attempt to cut down on the number of Charms. Severely. Even I cannot be arsed to dig into more than 2-3 250-powers powersets, and as far as I can tell, Charms (plus bling overload) make the game impenetrable for novice roleplayers. As a part of this, not only core Charms (like Excellencies-equivalents) should be unified across Charmsets, writing of Charmsets for minor Essence-users, that have different power levels from Exalted Charmsets, has to stop. If they need to be weaksauce, they can just inherently have appropriately low Essence.
Essence 2 is the level where you can asskick (or convert!) small armies by himself, so the setting should assume, that instead of existing next door from the mundane stuff, without changing it, characters of such Essence will change the world and warp it around themselves. At the most banal level, they can carve their own domains by sheer personal power alone, or establish cults in their name.
Significant gods (overseers of countries, major cities or large geographical features, Heavenly bureaucrats in positions of actual power and importance), average Deathlords, Second Circle demons, elder Dragon Kings, fae nobles, average behemots/hekatonchires, established Exalted fall into this category.
If a mundane country is targeted by such entities (for conquest, or social reform, or whatever), then, save plot help, massive stupidity on their part, or being countered by entities of equal or greater strength, they are very likely to succeed in whatever they want to do. Of course, as every place in the Creation has its own overseer gods, even various Mundanias do not totally lack mystical protectors, that will mobilize against outer threats, like the fae or the dead, even if they normally do not interfere in the everyday life (because they respect laws of Heaven, or because they aren't really interested in the petty affairs of mortals as long as they get their worship).
Where such beings, particularly Exalted congregate, societies irrevocably change from pseudo-medieval states to magic empires. Uncannily efficient governance and organization, enhanced breeds of animals and plants, gods being forced into relationship of mutual benefit, instead of worship extortion, zombie workers, element-powered machinery, magical engineering of the people themselves - Exalted can provide a lot of stuff for the society, if they care. So the Realm, for example, has super-efficient centrally-planned agriculture, that supports multiple megapolises, and a number of magical manufactures, and minor elemental trinkets in common use, and various social advancements for the citizens, allowed by all this, like 100% literacy and rudimentary social security. And the Realm is a fairly conservative nation in all areas except military.
Of course, societies also should give something back to Exalted, even after the best and and the best-buffed mook squads stop mattering (Frank already had some ideas above). More on this latter.
At Essence 3 level you can challenge such established magical states, starting with only your Essence-appropriate personal abilities, and have a reasonable chance of winning. Because you magic now does all sorts of crazy stuff, in the vein of DnD wizards or Bleach shinigami, which tends invalidate things that charactes at lower Essence do. It is not easy (although not impossible) to challenge an opponent that flies (fast) and has long-range telekinesis even with the most awesome face-stabbing and wall-running, and legions of magically-drilled godlings still usually just get stomped on by giant mechas and necrogodzillas.
Top dogs of divine hierarchy (ministers, censors, concept gods with the most currently important portfolios), a handful of especially hardcore Deathlords, normal Third Circle demons, lords of the fae courts, toughest behemots, great and eminent Exalted heroes fall into this category.
Magical utopias with quality of life exceeding modern First World become possible when noticeable numbers of such beings genuinely work together for the benefit of the people for extended periods of time.
At Essence 4 your abilities go so crazy, that they can easily define the history of a Creation-sized piece of real estate, if actively used.
Celestial Incarnae, fetich Third Circle demons (Yozis' "hearts") and unshaped fae have this Essence rating. Yozis' own bodies have about this rating too (technically Yozis should be Essence 5, but due to their diminished nature pretty much all their mega-Charms do is maintaining a number of lesser selves and creating effects of which Malfeas' environmental conditions consist).
As Essence 5 you stand on the level of the world's creators, unless your own nature cripples your ability to act. You don't play God, being the closest possible equivalent of one is your job.
Neverborn, Shinma and Autochton probably form the sum total of currently existing beings with such Essence rating. All of them are, accidentally, dead and/or sleeping. Or in eternal self-contemplation. In other words, incapable of direct action.
So, on the scale above, things that can subjugate a village, terrorize a countryside or hunt mortals for food, but aren't supposed to do things like walking into a walled city alone and butchering their way through, get Essence 1. Mundane mortal countries are supposed to be able to deal with them, by diplomacy, getting some of them for your own, or otherwise, without stopping being mundane mortal countries, unless they appear in overwhelming numbers.
Minor spirits, normal ghosts, First Circle demons, average sentient Dragon Kings, fae commoners, people and animals who got biology-defying mutations in the Wyld, Dragonblooded mooks and young Exalted in general fall into this category. Godlings, enlightened mortals and other "knock-off Essence users" also have Essence 1 and cannot ever increase it. Beastmen, minor mutants, and demihuman races, like Djala, on the other hand, count as mortals.
It is important to note, that my Dream Exalted should really attempt to cut down on the number of Charms. Severely. Even I cannot be arsed to dig into more than 2-3 250-powers powersets, and as far as I can tell, Charms (plus bling overload) make the game impenetrable for novice roleplayers. As a part of this, not only core Charms (like Excellencies-equivalents) should be unified across Charmsets, writing of Charmsets for minor Essence-users, that have different power levels from Exalted Charmsets, has to stop. If they need to be weaksauce, they can just inherently have appropriately low Essence.
Essence 2 is the level where you can asskick (or convert!) small armies by himself, so the setting should assume, that instead of existing next door from the mundane stuff, without changing it, characters of such Essence will change the world and warp it around themselves. At the most banal level, they can carve their own domains by sheer personal power alone, or establish cults in their name.
Significant gods (overseers of countries, major cities or large geographical features, Heavenly bureaucrats in positions of actual power and importance), average Deathlords, Second Circle demons, elder Dragon Kings, fae nobles, average behemots/hekatonchires, established Exalted fall into this category.
If a mundane country is targeted by such entities (for conquest, or social reform, or whatever), then, save plot help, massive stupidity on their part, or being countered by entities of equal or greater strength, they are very likely to succeed in whatever they want to do. Of course, as every place in the Creation has its own overseer gods, even various Mundanias do not totally lack mystical protectors, that will mobilize against outer threats, like the fae or the dead, even if they normally do not interfere in the everyday life (because they respect laws of Heaven, or because they aren't really interested in the petty affairs of mortals as long as they get their worship).
Where such beings, particularly Exalted congregate, societies irrevocably change from pseudo-medieval states to magic empires. Uncannily efficient governance and organization, enhanced breeds of animals and plants, gods being forced into relationship of mutual benefit, instead of worship extortion, zombie workers, element-powered machinery, magical engineering of the people themselves - Exalted can provide a lot of stuff for the society, if they care. So the Realm, for example, has super-efficient centrally-planned agriculture, that supports multiple megapolises, and a number of magical manufactures, and minor elemental trinkets in common use, and various social advancements for the citizens, allowed by all this, like 100% literacy and rudimentary social security. And the Realm is a fairly conservative nation in all areas except military.
Of course, societies also should give something back to Exalted, even after the best and and the best-buffed mook squads stop mattering (Frank already had some ideas above). More on this latter.
At Essence 3 level you can challenge such established magical states, starting with only your Essence-appropriate personal abilities, and have a reasonable chance of winning. Because you magic now does all sorts of crazy stuff, in the vein of DnD wizards or Bleach shinigami, which tends invalidate things that charactes at lower Essence do. It is not easy (although not impossible) to challenge an opponent that flies (fast) and has long-range telekinesis even with the most awesome face-stabbing and wall-running, and legions of magically-drilled godlings still usually just get stomped on by giant mechas and necrogodzillas.
Top dogs of divine hierarchy (ministers, censors, concept gods with the most currently important portfolios), a handful of especially hardcore Deathlords, normal Third Circle demons, lords of the fae courts, toughest behemots, great and eminent Exalted heroes fall into this category.
Magical utopias with quality of life exceeding modern First World become possible when noticeable numbers of such beings genuinely work together for the benefit of the people for extended periods of time.
At Essence 4 your abilities go so crazy, that they can easily define the history of a Creation-sized piece of real estate, if actively used.
Celestial Incarnae, fetich Third Circle demons (Yozis' "hearts") and unshaped fae have this Essence rating. Yozis' own bodies have about this rating too (technically Yozis should be Essence 5, but due to their diminished nature pretty much all their mega-Charms do is maintaining a number of lesser selves and creating effects of which Malfeas' environmental conditions consist).
As Essence 5 you stand on the level of the world's creators, unless your own nature cripples your ability to act. You don't play God, being the closest possible equivalent of one is your job.
Neverborn, Shinma and Autochton probably form the sum total of currently existing beings with such Essence rating. All of them are, accidentally, dead and/or sleeping. Or in eternal self-contemplation. In other words, incapable of direct action.
Perhaps the classical use? Certain actions of people and society as the whole ensure quicker flow of Essence to fighters. Also, they can work at producing weaponry.FatR wrote: Of course, societies also should give something back to Exalted, even after the best and and the best-buffed mook squads stop mattering (Frank already had some ideas above). More on this latter.
"Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat."