The Gaming Den

September 1 is approaching.

I can tell you that the ban has made it easier for Ramnza and I to moderate. (Zherog is invaluable to us, and he does moderate if needed, but for the most part he does IT type stuff, so I really can't say if the ban made his job easier or not. I suspect he wouldn't care either way, but I refuse to speak for him.)

Also, because I am a moderator, I rarely if ever participate in a controversial discussion, so I wouldn't miss political discussions and hot button social topics.

With one notable exception, it did cut down on the amount of acid spewed out on the boards.

Thoughts?

Game On,
fbmf

Everything notable is politics. It's not a healthy rule.

-Crissa

In My Humble Opinion still has threads being derailed by petty bickering and MPSIMS is pointless if you can't talk about politics. Lift the ban.

The political discussions in MPSIMS have been some of my favorite online reading. Please allow more to happen.

Also, a lot of the most interesting gaming articles have been politics-related. Witness the tomes.

Especially because everybody already ignores half the ban, remember how it was supposed to be social commentary too?

But what is social commentary? Is anything pro or con about feminism social commentary? Doesn't that mean Crissa's not allowed to post anymore?

What about religion? Is that social commentary? What about Shadowrun embezzlment, that's Social commentary. ect.

I've missed the political discussion and news stories, but if it's too much trouble from a moderation standpoint, keep it banned. This is a gaming forum first and foremost. We could always just find or start a different forum to rant about politics in.

Alternately, we could go for a compromise and allow it only in the off-topic forum. Maybe even just in threads with a [Politics] tag in the title.

I don't even see a reduction in the amount of threads getting spammed by a couple of posters spewing two or three responses to every one of anyone else's. It's just that now the threads being spammed are in the IMHO forum and actually making it hard to talk about games.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:It's just that now the threads being spammed are in the IMHO forum and actually making it hard to talk about games.

I concur with this assertion. If you don't give the Repeat Offenders their own venue to engage in debate, it's just going to bleed over into non-political threads. I've already decided that I'm not going to post any more political news stories or partake in any political discussions on this Forum because it just degenerates into incoherent screaming matches anyway.

Keep the ban. The IMHO board is more active with it in place. Even if some BS gets thrown around in the gaming threads, it's still better to see more threads in IMHO.

Zinegata's 3:1 posting style is disruptive to discussion, but that's his posting style. It's going to follow him anywhere he goes no matter what he does.

I like idea of having political comments/discussion in marked threads in MPSIMS.

After all, I might see something I want to post. And someone else might see something they want to post.

But the shitstorms happening in IMHO mean I'm sifting through a ton of bullshit to get to something useful.

And, with respect and apologies to Crissa, can we PLEASE include this ban (if it extends to having it contained to marked threads) to Gender/Feminism/Etc-related topics? Every time the issue comes up, it's good for two or three pages of arguments I've stopped bothering to read months ago because they run the same tracks every time.

It's cool to talk about it. But at least mark a thread so people have fair warning.

Crack down harder, bust more heads. Warn/ban those who drive threads off topic with stupid ass feuds.

DragonChild wrote:Crack down harder, bust more heads. Warn/ban those who drive threads off topic with stupid ass feuds.

Or that. If I thought there was any chance in hell of Crissa actually being punished for lying her ass off and accusing every poster of sexism every other day I wouldn't have to call her on her shit, just report her every time.

It would suck to be one of those forums though.

Keep the ban.

Especially since some people don't seem to get that it's not meant to "get rid of people like Zine who we don't like", as opposed to "make it easier to maintain order".

Like I keep saying, there are other forums that allow political discussions anyway.

mean_liar wrote:Zinegata's 3:1 posting style is disruptive to discussion, but that's his posting style. It's going to follow him anywhere he goes no matter what he does.

I'd just like to say that I'm perfectly willing to start "lumping" responses if people think it would be less disruptive. I certainly don't 3:1 in other places (i.e. SD.net).

The problem is that people here start attacking the "lumped" responses as a whole (often butting in when they're not involved, often just to show off), even if parts of the responses were not meant for them and would apply only to a specific poster.

Lump the responses, people who attack an argument because of who holds it aren't worth respect.

-Crissa

Crissa wrote:Lump the responses, people who attack an argument because of who holds it aren't worth respect.

-Crissa

I generally do not attack an argument "Just because of who holds it". However, how I attack an argument may be influenced by who holds it.

I hate you. I know you are stupid and yet deny it because you have an overly high opinion of yourself. I know you are a sleazy debater who will respond with deliberate falsehoods in order to confuse other posters as to what my actual argument is.

Hence any response to your post will always be guarded, and seek to maximize the mockery within the confines of acceptable behavior.

However, the same would not apply to many other Den posters - who are nice, helpful, and actually read what I wrote instead of going on a tirade just to make themselves look better (i.e. Frank, whose entire "career" as an Internet debater seems to revolve around nitpicking and moving goalposts).

In short, I believe in treating individual persons accordingly.

However, many in the Den aren't like that. They like to whine about people in general. Because they don't have the courage to actually confront an individual person who isn't just a collection of invented stereotypes.

And ultimately, if this isn't really the deep end of the Internet, then I support a measure that will help maintain order. This ain't a politics board. It's a gaming board.

What was the point of your rant, Zinegata? How did it make the thread better? Did you link to any supporting data? No? Why or why not?

-Crissa

Crissa wrote:What was the point of your rant, Zinegata? How did it make the thread better? Did you link to any supporting data? No? Why or why not?

-Crissa

Please specify which rant you are talking about.

Because you are demonstrating another sleazy debating tactic that leads me to disown post-lumping: Posting open-ended questions.

"How did it make the thread better?" Which thread then? Normally it would be safe to assume it's this thread, but why not say "How did it make this thread better?"

Because often I'd respond, and then you or someone else would start ranting about something from a completely different tangent.

So no, unless you specify, I'm not gonna answer your open-ended bullshit. Specify.

Lift the ban it really hasn't changed much in the way things have gone down. Now arguments just show up in IMHO and there is less information being presented.

Leress wrote:Lift the ban it really hasn't changed much in the way things have gone down. Now arguments just show up in IMHO and there is less information being presented.

I'm gonna open this new tangent, as several people have mentioned it. And I think it's simply untrue.

The only thread in IMHO where it has degenerated into namecalling isn't even a gaming thread. It's a "Whine about Paizo" thread. And it really blew up the moment somebody said "It's useless to whine".

Seriously. The thread did not have a single argument about the problems of the Paizo Pathfinder RPG, but it was entirely devoted to how "retarded Paizo people are". So really, it was a thread entirely about name-calling people outside the Den, which then circled back into namecalling people within the Den.

So really, less information? I don't see any of the real gaming development threads (i.e. Tiers) getting any useless arguments.

Zinegata wrote: The only thread in IMHO where it has degenerated into namecalling isn't even a gaming thread. It's a "Whine about Paizo" thread. And it really blew up the moment somebody said "It's useless to whine".

I was the one who said it was useless to whine.

Also there were plenty of thread about Pathfinder when it first started that's why no one said them in that thread. They were being referenced in it though.

The ban still hasn't really reduced name calling. It just seems now there are more egg shells.

Leress wrote:I was the one who said it was useless to whine.

Sorry, I'm not saying it's your fault (I actually believe it was PoliteNewb who said it first). I'm trying to say that it's the argument ignited the name-calling.

(You can blame me and my endorsement of the said argument for the explosion that followed ).

Also there were plenty of thread about Pathfinder when it first started that's why no one said them in that thread. They were being referenced in it though.

I'm aware there are threads previously. But again, to quote the OP:

Can anyone explain to me why pointing out that Fighters blow is resisted so fiercely that even designers take time out of their day to come in to smack you with their dicks?

The point of that particular thread wasn't to discuss Pathfinder. The point was to bash the people making Pathfinder.

Hence, the thread was really a name-calling exercise that simply circled around.

Zinegata wrote:

Can anyone explain to me why pointing out that Fighters blow is resisted so fiercely that even designers take time out of their day to come in to smack you with their dicks?

The point of that particular thread wasn't to discuss Pathfinder. The point was to bash the people making Pathfinder.

Do you dispute K's question?

Do you dispute that the events K reported happened; that the developer (a salaried person) appeared on the forum to quash complaints?

Why do you believe discussing people's behavior is 'bashing people'? Should behavior you don't understand merely be ignored?

-Crissa

Crissa, until you specify what I have asked, we have nothing to talk about.

I'm not going to fall into your other usual tactic of changing the topic.

Especially when your questions aren't related to lifting the ban, or its two side tangents (its effect on improving post style, and its effect on IMHO).

In fact, frankly, you're just trolling.