Why change dice to fixed systems when we have computers?

[Vebyast]

I see a lot of efforts to replace dice rolls with fixed systems. Usually, the rationalization is that rolling is slow or because there are people in the game that are intimidated by large numbers. Since everybody has computers or smartphones, though, why not just use those? A smartphone can generate random numbers, apply whatever crazy transformations you want, and then total them up as fast as you can ask for them. Is there something about using computers to roll dice that I don't know about?

[cthulhu]

I see a lot of efforts to replace dice rolls with fixed systems. Usually, the rationalization is that rolling is slow or because there are people in the game that are intimidated by large numbers. Since everybody has computers or smartphones, though, why not just use those? A smartphone can generate random numbers, apply whatever crazy transformations you want, and then total them up as fast as you can ask for them. Is there something about using computers to roll dice that I don't know about?

The same people who take 11 years to add up 16d6 also fail ate teeing up dice generators efficiently.

[Ganbare Gincun]

The same people who take 11 years to add up 16d6 also fail ate teeing up dice generators efficiently.

No, I'm pretty sure that they can handle the dice generators. There are plenty of people out there that don't have good math skills that can use software with mathematical functions perfectly fine. It's just a question of getting people to write the software in the first place. Indeed, you would have *thought* that WoTC would have released some Droid/iPhone apps for D&D 4th for a dollar or two that would let you build/store your character and roll all of your dice for you on your smartphone, but once again, they fail.

[Vebyast]

Indeed, you would have *thought* that WoTC would have released some Droid/iPhone apps for D&D 4th for a dollar or two that would let you build/store your character and roll all of your dice for you on your smartphone, but once again, they fail.

What?

...BRB, downloading Android SDK. I see an opportunity for profit here.

[Lago PARANOIA]

The higher your numbers get the greater the chance your game is unbalanced.

While being able to resolve the RNG is a huge concern, probably one just as big is keeping the RNG balanced. And that's very hard to do once you get into the double-digit damage and hit points necessary to have such a system. I can't think of a single RPG game that has done this correctly and quite a few video games as well.

Beyond that, though, it gives the game a very bad image if you need to use a calculator to play. Just the fact that D&D requires you to use your imagination and keep up with double-entry bookkeeper is daunting enough to casual gamers. Or on the other end of the competence spectre, it's worth avoiding because you'll have a significant portion of the playerbase that will resent having to abandon the dice and stick to calculators after a certain point--I can guarantee you that there's not a single fan of 3.0E's Epic quickplay rolling rules. Not to mention that even though putting 20d6 into a calculator is less time than rolling and counting it, it's still more time than just friggin' rolling 3d6.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Rolling dice feels nice. This, even more than the odds, is why craps is way better than slots.

[Vebyast]

I agree that traditionalist gamers like dice more; I certainly like them more myself, at least for rolls that aren't too big (and, of course, for rolls that are way too big, because rolling up an entire set of wargaming dice is amazingly satisfying). In my experience, though, the people that prefer dice are also good enough at math to use those dice.

The thing is, most of the convert-to-flat-damage systems are because some of the party can't add together 3d6 fast enough to keep the game flowing. Why do people spend the effort to build a new damage system when they could just use a computer?

[fatmonkey13]

My group uses computer die rollers all the time. I use spread sheet which can do it, as well as pen paper pixel's d20 dice bag. There are tons of other sites and downloadable tools. Also writing your own is pretty easy.

That being said there are generlly at least three sets of dice at the table, as well as almost a laptops per person.

[TavishArtair]

Because gamers want to be able to use human level analysis powers on the math in the game, and not have to necessarily bust out a calculator to get an eyeballed estimation of what is going on. If you reduce the number of variables going in, you can figure stuff out more readily. Now, I'm not saying you should have no variables or replace them all with fixed state systems, but there is a reason strategy games use less random values most of the time. You don't have to be able to predict things to 100% certainty in an RPG, in fact far from it, but by having more vision of the variables you can actually know when you're taking a risk and should go all-out hero and when you should hold back. Also, it's nice to consistently have an effect on the game proceedings.

[TheFlatline]

I agree that traditionalist gamers like dice more; I certainly like them more myself, at least for rolls that aren't too big (and, of course, for rolls that are way too big, because rolling up an entire set of wargaming dice is amazingly satisfying). In my experience, though, the people that prefer dice are also good enough at math to use those dice.

The thing is, most of the convert-to-flat-damage systems are because some of the party can't add together 3d6 fast enough to keep the game flowing. Why do people spend the effort to build a new damage system when they could just use a computer?

1. If someone has trouble counting 3d6, are they really going to have the patience and focus to play the game to begin with?

2. Usually, staring at a computer screen or a smartphone during a game session is a sign that things are going downhill fast. The urge to start faffing off is great.

3. I've used dice rollers before. By the time you tap in everything that you need (dice number, type of dice, hit roll), I've probably already rolled the bones and counted everything up unless we're talking like 16D6. This is probably the most fixable problem to be fair. A good UI would take care of this.

4. The temptation exists to design a game that is overly complicated simply because you can rely on technology to cover your ass. At that point, why not roll a D13,236 and take a percentage of that based on your skill? After all, the computer will do it for you in a moment and it sounds so *cool*.

5. A personal reason: Technology fucking rules my life already. It's the crux of my job, it's what I do when I go home, it's the only thing my family talks to me about, I'm woken up in the middle of the night with questions from coworkers about their computers (not exaggerating)... I play board games & table-top RPGs specifically because I'm sick of relying on technology, batteries, and computers. Not everything in human existence needs to be, or should be, computerized.

That being said, if this shit floats your boat, more power to ya. But computerized dice rollers are only useful when you're having to add numbers. They don't provide a significant benefit when you're dealing with static target numbers and dice pools like in Shadowrun 4 (SR3's variable target number was fucking psychotic, as Frank illustrated to me a while back). Looking at the few thousand dollars in books I have in my collection, I think in-game play the only games that would benefit from any computerized dice rollers would be D&D and D20 based systems. Wait, I take that back, I vaguely remember my first Palm Pilot PDA having a program I downloaded to let me calculate SR3 target numbers. THAT was f*cking indispensable.