Pathfinder Is Still Bad

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:45 am

Yea, to hear the goons talk 4e is a golden age of good mechanics and a bulwark against the mean old wizard who can replace the rogue with knock spells.

I am convinced most of this is because goons like playing fighters. It's telling that they post long rants about how it is TOTALLY UNFAIR and NOT AT ALL LIKE STORIES* that winged dragons go on strafing runs with their fire breaths.

Pointing out that 4e doesn't actually fix any of 3e's problems not related to PCs having narrative control gets you an angry mob, it's quite hilarious.

*Beowulf and the Hobbit would like a word with you

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:52 am

4e players will never be grognards. To be a grognard you have to support the old ways. But 4e was never the way. It sputtered and died. It competed against an existing platform and lost. They aren't keepers of the old lore, they are collectors of an obscure failed format. They are SEGA CD collectors, or NEO-GEO enthusiasts.

That's not grognardism, that's hipsterism. They aren't the people clinging to VHS because it was good enough in the 90s, they are the people still fucking around with Atari Jaguar because they don't want to be part of the herd, man.

-Username17

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:21 pm

I got into a game of Wrath of the Reighteous recently and I need to vent a bit...

Holy fuck, this is literally the worst things people say about D&D put into an AP. so many "video game" style mechanics, unlocks, rewards... it's insane. and you better plan for it, for your character to have the right combinations of background, class, path and build and better know when you have to do that "one thing" to trigger the next upgrade... holy shit.

siderant: why do I need not only an errata, but also the FAQ to use mythic rules? for fucks sake, even on pfsrd it's a nightmare to try to figure out how something works, because the rule text does not get updated with FAQ, so if you don't read every FAQ you will run into "that's not how it works"

bonus rant: did you guys know you can prevent any form of teleportation by tying a rope around the one trying to teleport? because it's silly that you can teleport without everything that is touching you needing to be brought along. why you don't need to teleport the entire atmosphere you breath and planet you stand on is something I have not yet figured out yet.

I kinda hate this hobby.

WiserOdin032402 · Post by **WiserOdin032402** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:24 pm

Ahahaha. Have you met Iomedae and played 20 questions with her? If not you're in for a treat.

deaddmwalking · Post by **deaddmwalking** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:46 pm

If you're playing Pathfinder, you should probably make a habit of appending everything you do or say 'with the appropriate respect due to X'.

'I order a beer from the barmaid with the appropriate respect due to a server.'

'I tell Iomedae to shove it with the appropriate respect due to a deity.'

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:30 pm

I think the Iomedae stuff happened before I joined. dunno. if there is more I might actually tell her to shoveit right up Aroden's butt.

I have not even played PFS scenarios that felt this much like playing a video game. I want to punch the author in the dick.

WiserOdin032402 · Post by **WiserOdin032402** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:01 pm

Rawbeard wrote:I think the Iomedae stuff happened before I joined. dunno. if there is more I might actually tell her to shoveit right up Aroden's butt.

I have not even played PFS scenarios that felt this much like playing a video game. I want to punch the author in the dick.

Whatever you do don't tell her to shove it. She'll drop +TEXASd6 sonic damage on you. The meeting with her is pointless and happens on the later end of the module. You play 20 questions where if you fuck up, answer too slow, answer too fast, or give the wrong answer on Imedae's trivia show about herself she drops TEXASd6 sonic damage on you.

Apparently, this is supposed to be a 'reminding slap' for your players with your newfound mythic powers to know your place or something dumb.

[EDIT] Did I mention you're her ordained crusaders? Because you are. This is what the devs think Lawful Good acts like.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:13 pm

having played the Kingmaker PC game it sounds EXACTLY like good deities act on Golarion. fuckers.
also since I joined late I am NOT actually ordained, I didn't even get the Iomedae power ups, because starting out at higher level (5) is already a huge advantage, apparantly. I guess it's a fair trade for being a rogue agent in this mess.

all casting should be wild arcana, btw. I am starting to see the appeal of playing a big dumb fighter. stupid micromanagment of stupid microshit

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:24 pm

Can you travel around with some form of permanent Silence to protect from stupid sonic attacks?

Iduno · Post by **Iduno** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:35 pm

erik wrote:Can you travel around with some form of permanent Silence to protect from stupid sonic attacks?

I doubt it would work the way you'd like.

WiserOdin032402 · Post by **WiserOdin032402** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:55 pm

erik wrote:Can you travel around with some form of permanent Silence to protect from stupid sonic attacks?

To be honest, probably not given you just take the damage through all possible defenses or something dumb.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:43 pm

I am almost certain I'd get my character killed so hard if we manage to get to that scene.

WiserOdin032402 · Post by **WiserOdin032402** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:17 am

Rawbeard wrote:I am almost certain I'd get my character killed so hard if we manage to get to that scene.

Well, Chamomile has a blog post that can help you out with that.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:40 am

I think it already helps that I am not imagining this.

holy shit. My character will literally die on that quiz. this is worse than I imagined it would be.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:43 am

Consider it a chance to roleplay a very satisfying encounter. When you leave Iomedae's domain with your other angered and embarrassed party members and agree she is a false god who needs to be taken down. Setting out on the second half of the game where you and your party members team up with the other turned Herald of Iomedae to overturn her temples and dethrone the false god.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:19 pm

this is exactly my intention. "no wonder the Hand of Vangeance switched to serve her. she probably shanked Aroden in the first place. if she wants us to save her herald it's probably better to actually destroy it" stuff like that. I hope the GM fixes this encounter, because otherwise the god of honor is going down!

sandmann · Post by **sandmann** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:33 pm

Rawbeard wrote:I think it already helps that I am not imagining this.

holy shit. My character will literally die on that quiz. this is worse than I imagined it would be.

The best part is when you realise that they want you to pass a DC 25 Knowledge (Religion) roll to remember the defeat of Erum-Hel. Which is known as the Fifth Act of Iomedae.

The holy book of the church of Iomedae is literally named "Acts of Iomedae".

An astral deva has Knowledge (Religion) 19. Iomedaes own messenger angels have a 25% chance to not know basic facts of her own faith that are written down in her own holy book.

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:56 pm

I wonder how many DMs look at fuckery like this, have a "haha, no" moment and then replace it for something more sensible.

I never ran a module "as-is". I always mostly took maps / NPCs and melded stuff on whatever campaign I was running at the moment.

maglag · Post by **maglag** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 pm

sandmann wrote:
Rawbeard wrote:I think it already helps that I am not imagining this.

holy shit. My character will literally die on that quiz. this is worse than I imagined it would be.
The best part is when you realise that they want you to pass a DC 25 Knowledge (Religion) roll to remember the defeat of Erum-Hel. Which is known as the Fifth Act of Iomedae.

The holy book of the church of Iomedae is literally named "Acts of Iomedae".

An astral deva has Knowledge (Religion) 19. Iomedaes own messenger angels have a 25% chance to not know basic facts of her own faith that are written down in her own holy book.

Playing devil's advocate, fallen angels have to come from somewhere, it makes sense some will stray away from their god's teachings.

WiserOdin032402 · Post by **WiserOdin032402** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 am

With all due respect Maglag, do you know how knowledge works? Because Pathfinder uses the 'knowledge checks govern what you know/don't know' system. I have no idea how one makes an angel that has a chance of not knowing anything about its creator...

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:43 am

hm. my character should for no reason at all buy that book.

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:26 am

Ah, it's complaining time once again!

Okay, on the subject of WotR. I just so happened to read through the second adventure of the path recently because I was dredging books for ideas of demonic antagonists.

The adventure mentions repeatedly, how redemption is important to this story, and that heroes can turn a number of villains encountered throughout it to the Fluffy Side.

The sum total of villains for whom even the possibility of behaving in ways other than fighting the party to death is mentioned throughout the adventure is 2. One of whom is blatantly an amoral mercenary (non-amoral mercenaries would not be serving demons, of all things) trying to switch sides upon seeing things go pear-shaped for the bad guys, and the other is a fucking traitor on the quest to backstab the party.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:32 am

yeah, I didn't see anything remotely redeemable and even the paladin/cleric duo are using ambush tactics of "kill first, ask questions never".

fun fact, the weird teleport interpretation is meant to help capture and redeem bad guys, but all I see is it forces them to fight to the death. let's see how it works out. maybe the anti-paladin will be interested in redemption. yep.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:42 am

curiosity got the better of me, if those "redeemable" NPCs were part of the story they died before I joined. this is hillarious.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:48 am

holy shit². those missing NPCs have plot triggers, no wonder we are not getting anything done and are just aimlessly stumbling around. what is this even?