After Sundown

Lance Twillman · Post by **Lance Twillman** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:18 am

Wow! Just ... wow. This is an incredibly well put together and well thought out product! Nicely done!

One comment is that your "Lifting" scale is a little wonky. "Max Lift" doubles from STR 2 to STR 3, but "Carry Home" doesn't.

"Max Lift" doubles from STR 8 to STR 9 and from STR 9 to STR 10. But not anywhere else. And from 30 to 35 is only a 33% increase?

FrankTrollman wrote:.

Strength Maximum Lift Carry Home
1 30 kilos 10 kilos
2 50 kilos 20 kilos
3 100 kilos 30 kilos
4 150 kilos 50 kilos
5 250 kilos 70 kilos (average human)
6 450 kilos 100 kilos
7 750 kilos 200 kilos
8 1.25 tonnes 500 kilos
9 2.5 tonnes 1 tonne
10 5 tonnes 2 tonnes
11 7 tonnes 3 tonnes
12 10 tonnes 4.5 tonnes
13 14 tonnes 6 tonnes
14 20 tonnes 8 tonnes
15 28 tonnes 10 tonnes
20 60 tonnes 24 tonnes
25 100 tonnes 40 tonnes
30 150 tonnes 60 tonnes
35 200 tonnes 80 tonnes

If you're going to build an exponential system, one with a simple formula is easy to remember, and you don't need access to the chart during mid-game.

One strength scale I've used in RPGs since the 1980s is one that increases 10-fold every 10 points. The great thing about this math is that THREE points is a 2-fold increase.

That gives you this chart, which still gives you about the same lift/carry numbers at 35 STR. It's also nice in that the Carry Home numbers are the same as the Max Lift numbers, just shifted 4 spots.


Strength	Maximum Lift	Carry Home
1	65 kilos	25 kilos
2	80 kilos	32 kilos
3	100 kilos	40 kilos
4	125 kilos	50 kilos
5	160 kilos	65 kilos
6	200 kilos	80 kilos (average human)
7	250 kilos	100 kilos
8	320 kilos	125 kilos
9	400 kilos	160 kilos
10	500 kilos	200 kilos
11	650 kilos	250 kilos
12	800 kilos	320 kilos
13	1 tonne	400 kilos
14	1.25 tonnes	500 kilos
15	1.6 tonnes	650 kilos
20	5 tonnes	2 tonnes
25	16 tonnes	6.5 tonnes
30	50 tonnes	20 tonnes
35	160 tonnes	65 tonnes

Or you can speed up the progression, like doubling every 2 STR.

Or making +3 STR = 4x weight (which also corresponds to a 10-fold increase for every +5 STR).

But then you'd have to reduce the STR scores for your Giant Monkeys to something like 20 or 25, instead of 35.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:17 pm

The Strength table is not exactly an exponential system. Nor I think, should it be. The Strength values between 1 and 6 need to cover the gamut of reasonably encounterable human characters, and having them fit a smooth mathematical progression would end up giving weird coverage. I mean, your chart ends up letting someone with the bare minimum Strength lift most full grown women. That's kind of a lot, don't you think?

Logs make for pretty math, but they don't necessarily make for pretty simulation.

-Username17

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:21 am

Frank, have you send "review copies" to any of the big review websites? Would you like me to do so?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:46 am

Orion wrote:Frank, have you send "review copies" to any of the big review websites? Would you like me to do so?

Nope. But you're right, that would be a good thing to do. I can't mail 10 megabyte files from here, but if you wanted to, that would be cool.

-Username17

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:00 am

I know a few of the big site,s but not all of them, nor how they work. In invite everyone to post lists of sites they think I should contact and admins who are known to be responsive. In the meantime, I'll start where I can.

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:34 am

An alternate PDF is now available for general use. Features include color images and the fact that it will hopefully end up as a hardcopy you can order off of Lulu.com sometime in the next few months (final price will probably be ~22$, no profits just printing costs). Before I send it off for printing I want to carefully edit as much as possible for error checking and probably put in some more art. Each city should at least have some skyline shots, since they're easy to do. Also, even if not all specific monster types get a picture, I should at least put in Frank's frowny face he had for the Trogs.

It's currently ~6.2MB and 215 pages.

If you note any errors or have any comments about it then there's like a million ways to contact me so don't hesitate. Also, the LaTeX sources are available should you be interested.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:17 am

In the current incarnation of the rules, a lot of the powers are free to use. Baali, for instance, don't seem to automatically start with any powers that use up points.

Not so much a balance issue as just really odd.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:06 pm

So, it turns out that Veils of Morpheus works pretty much like Shadowrun hacking. This is not a good thing.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:50 pm

CatharzGodfoot wrote:So, it turns out that Veils of Morpheus works pretty much like Shadowrun hacking. This is not a good thing.

Please elaborate on that. I agree that would not be a good thing.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:59 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:So, it turns out that Veils of Morpheus works pretty much like Shadowrun hacking. This is not a good thing.
Please elaborate on that. I agree that would not be a good thing.

The problematic powers are Denial of Privacy, Realization, and Dream Vision.

With Realization and Denial of Privacy, you end up on a Magic Tea Party adventure that nobody else can join unless they bought the same power set. With Dream Vision and Realization, you can throw armies of asura at victims on the other side of the earth.

My off-the-cuff solution for Realization is that it throws the dreamer into Deep Dream (along with anyone else in the dream) until they wake up. For Denial of Privacy, the Supernatural might be able to dream-hop while accumulating willing dreamers.

Dream Vision is tough, because it's neat that you can combine it with Realization, but you want to be able to make people dream of apocalypses, vampires, and hellmouths as well as just simulacrums of yourself telling them things. Maybe you can do the normal dream messaging stuff, and choose where in the Deep Dark people get kicked into when you use Realization. Maybe it also extends the range of Denial of Privacy?

These changes should allow hacking more along the lines of Inception rather than SR.

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:30 am

Some things as I carefully pick through parts of the Magic chapter:

Hand of Flame mentions that it's a touch attack that doesn't get damage for net hits. Is "touch attack" supposed to mean something particular like it does in DnD and SR4? If so, you don't define it anywhere else in the book.

Several powers refer to a "reflexive action", but this action type is never defined in the Danger chapter.

"A Discipline that is dispelled completely is suppressed and cannot be reactivated for the rest of the scene."
Did you really mean discipline? Or did you mean a specific power? If I dispel and suppress Hand of Flame, can they not use any powers at all in the entire Walk of Flame discipline? or can they still use Firestarter as long as it's not yet also dispelled? If all of Walk of Flame is disabled, does the discipline bonus also go away during that time?

Are disciplines intended to work with specializations and defaulting penalties?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:19 am

So things that live in the Dark Reflection:

Stygian Camels
Hell Hounds
Doom Bats
Wyverns
Snare Beasts
Tunnelers (the thing from Tremors)

Are there any monsters that people desperately need?

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:49 pm

Radscorpions would be nice.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:44 pm

Ash wights. Those shadows blasted onto walls from nuclear blasts give rise to things in the Reflection not quite ghost, not quite solid.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:16 am

Those are cool ones, yeah.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:53 pm

Doom Flies?

Lich-Loved · Post by **Lich-Loved** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:06 am

Great work, Frank. For the first time in my life, I am actually interested in WoD!

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:34 am

To be clear. Question we have in game:

If someone with a Path of Blood gets an advancement card that provides either a basic or advanced sorcery, and they don't have a book of Path of Blood, can they take Gift of Health?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:29 am

Kaelik wrote:To be clear. Question we have in game:

If someone with a Path of Blood gets an advancement card that provides either a basic or advanced sorcery, and they don't have a book of Path of Blood, can they take Gift of Health?

Yes.

You need to have the sorcery already, or be a member of the appropriate cult or have an appropriate book to advance that sorcery. It's not much of a limitation, but then people are supposed to be getting the powers they want to have.

-Username17

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:51 am

For the classic vampire scene of grabbing a human, holding them, and drinking the blood straight from the neck with plenty of time...is it resolved as an Abduct action, followed by a melee attack for regular damage that's described as sucking out their blood?

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:34 am

virgil wrote:For the classic vampire scene of grabbing a human, holding them, and drinking the blood straight from the neck with plenty of time...is it resolved as an Abduct action, followed by a melee attack for regular damage that's described as sucking out their blood?

This would be nice to know, actually. I rule it as such, with a bite being a Damage 1 (lethal) weapon.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:19 am

That sounds pretty workable.

-Username17

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:42 pm

I got a blurb for After Sundown!

"The RPG has a doggy on the cover."
- Arthur B., Ferretbrain.com

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:04 am

Orion wrote:I got a blurb for After Sundown!

"The RPG has a doggy on the cover."
- Arthur B., Ferretbrain.com

What is the context of that?

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:06 am

So, what was the latest book you're doing? And did you want any art for it?

I mean, I can't draw, what with my dominant shoulder being fractured, but I can do pastels with my left hand, and they turn out just fine - arguably better than drawing or painting, because they blend so well. Fire and smoke is especially awesome with pastels, for what it's worth, but living creatures and so on also work.

So if you wanted some free pictures to include, I could do some, scan them and send them your way. Obviously filed under "this can be used for profit or not, whatever, I don't even care".