Cyberpunk Fantasy Heartbreaker: Strange Places

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Cyberpunk Fantasy Heartbreaker: Strange Places

Post by Username17 »

K is totally right that you need to "lay down the wasteland tiles first". That is: before you can really make your setting in detail you have to determine what parts of your setting exist at all. And that means deciding what areas get blown up (and why), as well as determining what bonus areas get created. Sixty four years is actually a really long time, and there can (and should) be additional cities. Construction of Brasilia (population 2.6 million) began 55 years ago. 64 years ago, the population of Hong Kong (now 7 million) was 1.7 million. But we also have magic kingdoms phasing in and areas claimed by the sea, poison clouds, and magical vegetation and such. Many places that do or do not exist today will be placed into the other category.

So anyway, here are some of the phase-in countries:
Islands
CountryLocationOccupantsDiplomatic Status
AtlantisWestern MediterraneanHumans in togasEU Membership
AvalonEastern AtlanticElvesUN Affiliate
Devil's ReefNorth Western AtlanticDeep OnesTerrorist State
HelheimNorth SeaDwarvesGuarded Neutrality
War with Thule
LankaIndian OceanAsuraTerrorist State
Lemuria
(Kumari Kandam?)
Indian Ocean??
MuPacific Ocean??
PatalaSouth China SeaAsuraASEAN
R'lyehSouth PacificDeep OnesTerrorist State
ThemiskyraBlack SeaHumans in togasTerrorist State
ThuleArctic OceanAsuraGuarded Neutrality
War with Helheim
YomiSea of JapanOgresGuarded Neutrality
Mountains
CountryLocationOccupantsDiplomatic Status
Agartha?Ogres?
Dinas AffaraonSnowdoniaElves?
El DoradoAndesHumans in togasUN Affiliate
NysaEthiopian HighlandsElvesUN Affiliate
QuiviraRocky Mountains??
Shangri-laHimalayasHumans in togasGuarded Neutrality
Xanadu???

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Post by Chamomile »

Can someone please explain to my why Mu, a word which means non-existence, is a location that exists?
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Post by Username17 »

Chamomile wrote:Can someone please explain to my why Mu, a word which means non-existence, is a location that exists?
Mu was a hypothesized lost land mass in the middle of the Pacific that Native Americans came from before it sank. It's a garbled interpretation of a garbled Mayan legend that is probably dimly based on the Bering Straight land bridge. But the 19th century guys who came up with the idea thought it was a lot farther South because Mayans live in Central America. Also, they thought Egyptians were also from the same land mass, because they were 19th century Europeans and that is how they rolled.

So Mu is a phase-in island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and it has a bunch of pyramids on it. But other than that I have no idea.

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Post by Maxus »

Depends on how much crazy is going to be on the setting, I guess..

Not every piece of land that reappears would be populated by what we'd call society (initially).

Mu could totally be filled with crazy clockwork automata, some few of which are functioning. Various international corporations want to pick it over, but any vehicle which approaches above a certain size (say, something that can hold a dozen people), blows up on the approach and they don't know how this happens. Which means corporations are trying to pick it over, but it's a big place and when your team is only a dozen and there's god-knows-how-many-levels of it underground, it could take decades and they keep running into each other.

So for the ones you're unsure about, make them uninhabited (and a couple of them are practically uninhabitable) and come up with some reason (probably related to the name) that this be so.
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Post by Jilocasin »

Chamomile wrote:Can someone please explain to my why Mu, a word which means non-existence, is a location that exists?
Because of this. Seriously, Mu pretty much comes whole cloth from the overactive imagination and bizarre interpretations of legends of this man. Well, the name Mu actually comes from Brasseur de Bourbourg's "translation" of the Troano codex , but the idea didn't gain any real traction until James Churchward wrote his book.

Mu and Lemuria are really the same thing. They may have been thought to exist in different oceans but the defining characteristics of Mu (like most ancient sunken islands) were that the inhabitants were the first humans, they were advanced both socially and technologically, and their civilization was destroyed because of some massive natural disaster. Mu was actually pretty damn big, going all the way from Easter Island to the Mariana Islands and from Mangaia to Hawaii. The destruction of Mu was supposedly caused by the explosion of a huge gas belt that existed underneath the 5000 mile by 3000 mile continent. This explosion also incidentally created most of the mountains that apparently hadn't existed prior to this event, about 16,000 years ago.

The people of Mu, called the Naacal, had a religion based around the sun. And yes, they built lots of pyramids. Also moai, I guess. They referred to the sun, their god, and their ruler by the name/title "Rah". Because clearly the Egyptians ripped off the Naacal. Anyway, they also had massively impressive technology, up to and including the ability to manipulate gravity.

I'd recommend against including Mu at all since it fills more or less the same niche already filled by Lemuria and/or Atlantis. If people do actually want to include it for some reason I think it should be considerably smaller than it is usually depicted. I also agree that it ought to be mostly empty and devoid of anything resembling sentient life. I'd actually go less in the direction of clockwork beasts and more in the direction of advanced (if functionally alien) technology. But I've been on a sci-fi kick lately so maybe my bias is showing.
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Post by Chamomile »

I'd be interested in seeing some Atlantean style magitech. Mu does seem to be not all that different from Atlantis on its own, but I'm sure there's things we could do with a bit of creative license. For example, what if Mu is actually a gigantic, 3000x5000 continent...But for strange and mysterious reasons, only a few miles of the shore can be reached, and everything else you can pass straight through without even knowing it's there? For example, let's say Mu Landing Point is a twenty mile stretch of coastline that leads to a foggy landmass that is both an island and a peninsula, depending on whether you're on it or sailing around it. Thus, Mu takes up the bulk of the Pacific Ocean without interrupting shipping lanes, because magic.
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Post by Fucks »

Humans in togas
Wtf? :rofl:
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Post by name_here »

I'm not at all sure I like the various proposals for Mu being difficult to reach and explore due to magical bullshit fields.

Alternate proposal: Mu phased in with massive defensive forts containing shore batteries that blow up anything more than 70 feet long that approaches to within 25km or fires on them, except for a narrow corridor that a bunch of nations and megacorps cooperated to blast open with bombing runs and capital ships. There's a multinational base camp that people send teams out into the ruins from, plus lots of local intrigue because people cannot make their own corridors and will not give up an opportunity to screw with their mortal enemies if it won't get them kicked off the island.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Fucks wrote:
Humans in togas
Wtf? :rofl:
Roman/Greek Style i guess.
Because of the similarities and them being "socially and technologically advanced"
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Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Maxus »

name_here wrote:I'm not at all sure I like the various proposals for Mu being difficult to reach and explore due to magical bullshit fields.
I wasn't picturing magical bullshit fields myself. Mainly an old defense system which no one's been able to find or deactivate yet.

The shore batteries do work better, mind you.
Last edited by Maxus on Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

An entire new continent is too much space to fill. It's much easier to say that legends vastly over-reported the size of said island nations.

R'lyeh is a possible exception, as it will be mostly under water. You can pretty much just circle the part of Earth farthest from all the continents and say 'Here be Dagons'.
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Post by Username17 »

Anyway: habitat destruction.

Sea Level Rise: We're positing a sea level rise of about 30 centimeters by 2075. That's a bit on the conservative side, since a number of projections have us beating that by 2050. It's also one foot though, so it's nice and round and easy to explain. That makes us lose about 5000 square miles of US coastline, but it doesn't submerge any major cities or do anything stupid.

Still, a lot of homes and aquifers are unusable and radical urban planning is needed in Florida.

Weather Shifts The stars are right and there are extra land masses. The clouds can pretty much go wherever you say they do. So any region that depends on rain for its water (that is most places) can simply be a desert now. The inverse can also be true: any desert that suddenly starts getting 80 inches of rain a year will "flood" and pretty much stay flooded until people figure out that the lakes and rivers are actually permanent and they are not getting their houses back.

Industrial Accidents Nothing has been rebuilt over the Bhopal Union Carbide pesticide factory. The entire city of Pripyat stands vacant. The release of enough poison int an area that cleaning it up would cost more than moving somewhere else has a pretty good success rate of getting people to abandon areas to habitation. An advantage here is that there is industry in pretty much every city in the world, and in the future there could be industry on a scale sufficient to generate a fuckup of sufficient magnitude pretty much anywhere. I mean, you could have people build a new widget plant and have it explode at any point in the next 60 years. If something lie that didn't happen, that would be surprising and unrealistic.

Nuclear Bombs Totally overdone, and actually nuclear bombs have a surprisingly poor history of actually wiping cities off the map in any permanent way. Still, we have bigger bombs now, so it's plausible to create a literal nuclear wasteland. Again, this can be pretty much anywhere. It can be a terrorist nuke, a War Games style experiment gone wrong, an act of war, or a last-ditch attempt to stop the awakening of an evil god.

Mana Storms Again, overdone. But useful, since there is specifically nothing in Earth's actual history or topology that makes that happen. Not much to say about this, but you can put one of these anywhere.

Conflict Political turmoil and the threat of war can push people out of cities. There's totally Varosha. It doesn't happen very often, usually cities turn into Stalingrad or West Berlin when invading armies come through, but an empty city is creepy as hell, especially if it is full of discarded ammunition and maybe some leftover monsters or something.

Resource Shortage Without a functioning economy, there is no reason (or ability) for people to stay in town. It could be like Bodie, California where people just run out of a way to make a living and everyone leaves. This mostly happens to one-industry towns lie something built around a copper mine or something. But in a world that is fuel and water scarce, pretty much anything could dry up.

Monsters Similar to manastorms, in that it could happen anywhere for no reason. Actually, it's pretty hard to justify how monsters could actually depopulate a city. But they could easily make a road or rail line impassable.

Geology Volcanoes have a really good record of turning cities into non-cities. Earthquakes and the associated tidal waves have done OK, but they usually need help from another event afterward to keep people from just rebuilding.

Anyway. The next thing to do is to look at a population density map of the US. Ther is one Here.

Anywhere that is full of white space could be declared to have roaming basilisks or nuclear fallout or something and it wouldn't make much difference. The red spots are the important ones, because where those are and are not will determine where actual political power is.
  • I want to have something fatal happen to Jacksonville. It's in an awkward place between the CSA and the Caribbean Empire, and I don't want to deal with it.
  • Something catastrophic should happen to either Austin or San Antonio. Because they are too close to be different, too big to ignore, and not big enough to be worth detailing both. Probably Austin, so that the Lone Star State can put their capital in Dallas or Houston.
  • California is too connected. That is, it is too easy to get from the Bay Area to Sacramento and too easy to get from LA to San Diego. The regions in between those cities need to be hellscapes that require daring DMZ running or going the long way around.
  • Cleveland is on the border between Greater Kentucky and Greater Pennsylvania. It should be an empty wartorn hellscape.
  • The East Coast generally has too many cities, and a wedge has to be driven between Philly and New York. I suggest an attack from Devil's Reef.
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

FrankTrollman wrote:The East Coast generally has too many cities, and a wedge has to be driven between Philly and New York. I suggest an attack from Devil's Reef.
If you need trouble in that region it strikes me that Indian Point is a really good opportunity for a Punk-based difficulty instead of a Fantasy-based one.
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Post by name_here »

1. War abandonment looks pretty good given the strategic location

2. IIRC, parts of Austin are one accident away from poisonous hellscapes as it is.

3. Various fire-themed monsters could easily do it. Something should be done to prevent people from just using boats, though. Unfortunately R'leyh is out of position, so we need a different oceanic menace.

4. The impression I get from visiting Cleveland is that there's no longer a compelling reason to have a city there except that there already is one. It used to be a major port for iron shipments that no longer happen, so in the future any sufficiently major disruption to the city would cause people to simply move to some other city and set up shop instead of rebuilding. Earthquake?

5. That's going to be a bit awkward. The cities are predicted to overlap metropolitan areas well before the stars become right, plus the connection is simply too valuable and too short for it becoming unlivable to sensibly cut it excepting massive geographical rearrangement. I suggest combining attack from Devil's Reef with Weather Shift sending part of it underwater. That gives an opportunity for people to don wetsuits and battle deep ones to protect a convoy.

EDIT: Apparently I am bad at distinguishing Texan cities.
Last edited by name_here on Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Well, you could have a litteral wedge between philly and NY by using an earthquake/tidal wave or a volcanoe errupting in between . . or maybe an volcano errupting, causing and earthquake and then being washed over by the tidal wave, if you feel like going overboard . .
And why should monsters not be able to depopulate a city?
As long as nobody can figure out WHAT EXACTLY is causing death all around, it can be something as tiny as a mutated spider . . see arachnophobia . . or ants . . phase 3 . . or gargantuan ants ala formicula . . there are hundreds/thousands AND they are huge . . or some kind of parasite that needs human host bodies . . bodysnatchers . . hell, in a world with the great old ones, nuclear and natural disasters, you could have GODZILLA show up somewhere, like, new york, and take it over ala Ghostwalker Does Denver . . or simply level it like Aden in Teheran . .
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Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by name_here »

Well, the big problem with monsters depopulating cities is that cities definitionally contain a lot of people. So simply killing the entire population of a city requires a lot of monsters even if they do not have guns. Since cities can call on people with lots of guns (or insectide or flamethrowers as applicable) in addition to whatever guns they allow civilians to have, you need even more monsters.

Furthermore, monsters don't just stay in one place after killing everyone, so unlike an enviromental catastrophe it is pretty much always worth it to deal with a city-killing number of monsters. At that point, unless there's some compelling reason not to rebuild the city, people will totally go and rebuild it. I guess a city could end up containing a Hellmouth and get transformed into Military Containment Zone Echo, but that still leaves a city-like area in the same location.
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Post by Blicero »

name_here wrote: 4. The impression I get from visiting Cleveland is that there's no longer a compelling reason to have a city there except that there already is one. It used to be a major port for iron shipments that no longer happen, so in the future any sufficiently major disruption to the city would cause people to simply move to some other city and set up shop instead of rebuilding. Earthquake?
Speaking as an actual Cleveland native and resident, this is basically the case. Our population has been declining for decades, and there is very little reason to live here beyond (admittedly neat) cultural reasons, such as museums, the orchestra, etc.

That being said, I kind of like the idea of there being some sort of "magic meta" or whatever that is forged best in the Detroit/Cleveland area. That way, you can have Cleveland in the game as this frontieresque city where you can totally get rich and awesome making the magic metal. Only problem is, it attracts evil demons who attack. You could have sections of the city that are absurdly rich and posh and filled with mansions like it was in the early 20th century, and half a kilometer away there's a wartorn hellscape.
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Post by sabs »

Cleveland's only reason to exist currently is Case Western :)
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Why is California not an island?
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Post by Chamomile »

I suggest metaphorically nuking Philadelphia completely. Submerge it, or fill it with a hostile manastorm intolerant to any life outside of biosuits, or something like that. Remove it from the map. It breaks up the megalopolis that'll be there by the time the stars are right and gives us some awesome submerged ruins to have adventures in.
Why is California not an island?
I'm not big on climatology at all, so I'm not sure, is California supposed to be an island after just a foot of sea rise? That seems kind of like a stretch.
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Post by Maxus »

Chamomile wrote:
Why is California not an island?
I'm not big on climatology at all, so I'm not sure, is California supposed to be an island after just a foot of sea rise? That seems kind of like a stretch.
And a couple earthquakes might separate a bit of California away from the rest of it--West Andreas and East Andreas, and it might even get water in the bottom of it.

But it's going to be a ditch you can jump over.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Image

Hey, psychic maps can't be wrong.
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Post by Shatner »

FrankTrollman wrote:
  • Something catastrophic should happen to either Austin or San Antonio. Because they are too close to be different, too big to ignore, and not big enough to be worth detailing both. Probably Austin, so that the Lone Star State can put their capital in Dallas or Houston.
I live in Austin and there are many, many options for turning the city into something... less populated. Just to name a few...

1) Drought. The entire state is in a super nasty drought right now and if things continue then a lot of reservoirs will drop too low to support the current water-guzzling lifestyle the city has. Now in the not-ruined real world, that just means that a lot of McMansions will have their St. Augustine lawns go brown. But make it a bad enough climate shift such that a) the local aquifers are tapped out and b) make the Colorado river get diverted or badly polluted and you simply won't be able to support a population of 800,000. One or two prolonged summers later and the town literally and metaphorically dries up.

2) Ruin I-35 and the Austin Western Railroad (AWRR). Austin has a fully deserved reputation for having traffic WAY out of line with what a city of its size should have. That's because of a combination of poor civil planning and because it lies at the juncture of THE major North-South interstate (I-35 which has trucking traffic from Mexico to Canada along it and connects every important city in the state... except Houston) and 71/290 which is the only East-West highway of importance for roughly a 100 mile radius. Knock out the aging but still used railway system and Austin becomes the middle of nowhere instead of the capital of the state.

3) Republicans. Austin is a major center of technology and culture for the state, making it the most progressive, liberal and fruity city in an otherwise heavily conservative and backwards state. In a sea of red, it consistently votes blue, even when you factor in the flagrant gerrymandering that goes on. If your setting posits Texas actually seceding from the union and becoming some sort of conservative, cowboy plutarchy it is highly likely that the fiercest resistance against that change would have come from the Austin metropolitan area. Have a series of military-gunning-down-protestors tragedies, militia run amok disasters and a spiteful post-succession government which wants to "punish those Yankee queers" and you could easily see the city ravaged and divested of political importance.
Last edited by Shatner on Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chamomile »

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Image

Hey, psychic maps can't be wrong.
So Mt. Timpanogos, which is almost twelve thousand feet tall, is submerged, but there are still portions of the Everglades that are dry? That big peninsula that stretches out to northern California/southern Washington, why is that still dry? San Diego borders the sea, why is it still afloat? Las Vegas is under the Pacific, but the Hawaii is perfectly intact? Did this person just pick their least favorite parts of the country and say they'd get submerged?
Last edited by Chamomile on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by zeruslord »

Xanadu should clearly be a kingdom of twisted decadent molemen or something living beneath Mongolia.
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