So, let's lay the cards on the table, because so far, is not really good ATM:
Warhammer 40k.
While the 5th edition ruleset is solid, if a little shaky on editing (thank god for FAQs), the main problem is that, well, here's the list of good armies:
*Imperial Armies (6 Marine Variants + Imperial Guard + Sisters).
*Dark Eldar.
*Tau.
Everything else? Gimped crap that simply doesn't cut it on competitive enviroments. Wanna know how Privateer Press gets all those crazy, disturbing, extremist fanboys? Read: "Former Xenos (aliens) and Chaos players".
Necrons are coming later on the year, if that's a consolation.
Warhammer Fantasy
8th edition tried to fix the flaws in 7th and fucked that up by adding a bunch of random crap. Also, the two army books so far are more unfun, gimped shit. The former could be somewhat dismished in "beer and pretzels" mode, the latter is the real killer. GW sells 10 times more Space Marines than the entire Fantasy range.
War of the Ring
Nobody plays that crap and is going to be discontinued when GW rans of of the time of the license.
Warmachine
Besides the above brand of disturbing fanboys, PP experiment has their own brand of issues:
*Patchjob UAs. So, I have to buy 2 overpriced metal guys for rules that the unit should have on the first place? Fuck you.
*Inmunities/Warjack only/Living only. Hey, let's make a game that is vastly match-up based even MORE matchup based! Oh, and let's make a bunch of models gimped crap too on the process.
*Heavy Warjack spam is only possible with only one caster per faction. While is not so bad as in the MKI "Infantrymachine" days, most Warmachine lists are on this mold:
1-3 Warjacks.
Tarpit unit.
Ranged (speedy or shooty) unit.
Solos.
Why? Because most Warcasters can't support more Warjacks than that. And in most lists, one of those jacks are the character jacks, who get a ton of cool shit (PP knows this, that's why they squeeze so many jacks and support solos that get around the focus limit. There's several jacks with Accumulator or Soul Gathering in Wrath, for example). Also, if you want a bunch of Heavy stuff going on the field, play Hordes.
Infinity and Flames of War.
Don't play them, I don't like animu minis or ugly WWII tanks.
The games are fun, mind you, but with tons of Developer Hubris, the flavors of annoying fanboys (Fluff Nazis who will cry murder at anybody trying to win OR bitter, disturbing PP fanboys on their anti-GW jihad) and, of course, several company fuckups really sour the experience.
Heard that you people like rants, so here you go.
The state of Miniature Wargaming
Moderator: Moderators
Re: The state of Miniature Wargaming
In general, agreed (particularly of note is that current edition of WHFB is so bad the EU tournament scene basically refuses to acknowledge it exists, putting in so many Universal House Rules that they have effectively turned it back into 6th edition). But:
Imperial Guard are very popular and do quite well.
Space Marines do well, although plenty of their options (such as almost all special characters) are shit.
Blood Angels are currently fantastic. Space Wolves have some options and lists that work. No idea about the old ones nobody gives a shit about.
Grey Knights are... tricky. There's a lot of random stuff, and there are plenty of things that are just overpriced, but in general they have some good stuff. Oh also "We specialise in fighting Daemons, who are all immune to Instant Death, that is why we all carry Instant Death weapons!"
Sisters have a single good list, and it's not actually competetive or great. It's easy to counter and beat, it's just not completely terrible.
Dark Eldar are currently fantastic, agreed. Mostly they just have lots of good options that can easily lead to making good lists.
Nids are generally considered pretty sweet as well. But they have more trap options and some of their best tricks (mass poison and rapid charging) are done better by Dark Eldar.
Eldar still have a few decent options, really. You can still do well in a tournament with them. I mean, sure, you tear half the codex pages out because you'll never use them, but what's left is workable.
Necrons are embarrassingly bad.
Tau... if you'd say Eldar are hopelessly weak, then you should say the same for Tau. They can be effective, but you have few useful options and once your Heavy and HQ slots are taken, you're largely going "Well fuck, I have to spend my points somewhere."
Orks were great at the start of the edition, and are probably still great at Marion store, where there is so much terrain you can't draw LoS to something until it's in charge range. But by now, yeah, they feel kind of small in the pants. Some people feel they are best done as Counts-As-Blood-Angels, with the weird crap Angels get. Sisters also work best as Counts-As-Blood-Angels, what with that dex taking all their strengths and being better at them.
And Chaos... um... yeah. Oddly, I have a 100% victory record with Chaos. But they're actually terrible armies and I won through luck and turtling. Daemons are not only not very good, their rules are just a general nuisance (and don't mesh well with the expansions). Though at least they have a few good things - Fiends of Slaanesh and Flamers of Tzeench for your Elites, Hounds and maybe Screamers for your Fast Attack, Horros for Troops. Chaos Marines... count as Space Wolves, is best. They are terrible, and the least terrible choice you have is to go all-Nurgle.
So you're right on Chaos sucking the big one. Imperial you're close to the mark, and Xenos is too "all over the place" to just lump up into one category.
And I think I might owe someone money, given DE actually got a release. Given Necrons are so imminent (Tomb Kings in FB just being a way to drum up hype for Necrons, perhaps?) that we know half the rules, I probably owe money on that too.
And rumour has it Sisters will get a fucking White Dwarf release, with no new minis, no plastic kits, just the shitty resin version of the metal minis. Which is close enough to my prediction of "they will be removed from the game" that I can win money on that one. If that turns out to be a great joke though, I will need recipes for hats and a fucking webcam.
Hahaha no.Gx1080 wrote:here's the list of good armies:
*Imperial Armies (6 Marine Variants + Imperial Guard + Sisters).
*Dark Eldar.
*Tau.
Everything else? Gimped crap that simply doesn't cut it on competitive enviroments.
Imperial Guard are very popular and do quite well.
Space Marines do well, although plenty of their options (such as almost all special characters) are shit.
Blood Angels are currently fantastic. Space Wolves have some options and lists that work. No idea about the old ones nobody gives a shit about.
Grey Knights are... tricky. There's a lot of random stuff, and there are plenty of things that are just overpriced, but in general they have some good stuff. Oh also "We specialise in fighting Daemons, who are all immune to Instant Death, that is why we all carry Instant Death weapons!"
Sisters have a single good list, and it's not actually competetive or great. It's easy to counter and beat, it's just not completely terrible.
Dark Eldar are currently fantastic, agreed. Mostly they just have lots of good options that can easily lead to making good lists.
Nids are generally considered pretty sweet as well. But they have more trap options and some of their best tricks (mass poison and rapid charging) are done better by Dark Eldar.
Eldar still have a few decent options, really. You can still do well in a tournament with them. I mean, sure, you tear half the codex pages out because you'll never use them, but what's left is workable.
Necrons are embarrassingly bad.
Tau... if you'd say Eldar are hopelessly weak, then you should say the same for Tau. They can be effective, but you have few useful options and once your Heavy and HQ slots are taken, you're largely going "Well fuck, I have to spend my points somewhere."
Orks were great at the start of the edition, and are probably still great at Marion store, where there is so much terrain you can't draw LoS to something until it's in charge range. But by now, yeah, they feel kind of small in the pants. Some people feel they are best done as Counts-As-Blood-Angels, with the weird crap Angels get. Sisters also work best as Counts-As-Blood-Angels, what with that dex taking all their strengths and being better at them.
And Chaos... um... yeah. Oddly, I have a 100% victory record with Chaos. But they're actually terrible armies and I won through luck and turtling. Daemons are not only not very good, their rules are just a general nuisance (and don't mesh well with the expansions). Though at least they have a few good things - Fiends of Slaanesh and Flamers of Tzeench for your Elites, Hounds and maybe Screamers for your Fast Attack, Horros for Troops. Chaos Marines... count as Space Wolves, is best. They are terrible, and the least terrible choice you have is to go all-Nurgle.
So you're right on Chaos sucking the big one. Imperial you're close to the mark, and Xenos is too "all over the place" to just lump up into one category.
And I think I might owe someone money, given DE actually got a release. Given Necrons are so imminent (Tomb Kings in FB just being a way to drum up hype for Necrons, perhaps?) that we know half the rules, I probably owe money on that too.
And rumour has it Sisters will get a fucking White Dwarf release, with no new minis, no plastic kits, just the shitty resin version of the metal minis. Which is close enough to my prediction of "they will be removed from the game" that I can win money on that one. If that turns out to be a great joke though, I will need recipes for hats and a fucking webcam.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Re: The state of Miniature Wargaming
Blender and make a smoothy? Otherwise, mustard.Koumei wrote:If that turns out to be a great joke though, I will need recipes for hats and a fucking webcam.
Last edited by Maxus on Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
It's hard to get a general sense of what's happening up here with wargaming because there are almost no more conventions anymore. Not a lot of Battletech seems to be happening as of late, for whatever reason. Warhammer Fantasy & 40K seem to be going along as they always have. D&D miniatures died out a while ago, so has 3e if you consider that a wargame. Heroclix seems to have had something of a revival, my FLGS hosts a game every Sunday.
All in all there seems to be a lot less wargamming going on, that could be because of computer games, the economy or something else.
All in all there seems to be a lot less wargamming going on, that could be because of computer games, the economy or something else.
Oh thank God, finally a thread about how Fighters in D&D suck. This was a long time coming. - Schwarzkopf
About Sisters, dunno. Meltaguns on Rhino chasis+Inmmolator is somewhat-decent, although with the WD codex incoming, is all up in the air. Besides, they are waay too expensive in money. There's also the allied Autocannon Guard blob (which proved to be really effective, giving long-range to the army and recieving the Sister's morale tricks), but, again, WD codex incoming.
FWIW, I heard rumors of plastic kits.
Eldar is simply outclassed by Dark Eldar. Massed S6 doesn't scare anybody and they are waaay too dependant on psychic powers on the age of psychic hoods everywere. They are still somewhat annoying though.
Tau, well, the basic truth of shooting > cc still applies. And Tau shoot like nobody's business, Crisis Suits+Railguns behind the Kroot wall can destroy armies. Can get boring to play, I'll admit.
Nids, well, between the crap FAQ and shoody Cruddace writing (I see him getting fired like Thorpe was), have only one viable build: Spamming Hive Guard (now in expensive Finecast!) and Tyrannofexes (no model). And people figured how to beat that already. Specially Dark Eldar and Grey Knights, which can use their mobility to destroy the defenses of Nids and then murder them with mass poison/force weapons.
GK Stormravens and Jaws also simply delete the Synapse MCs (the lynchpin of the tyranid army) off the field.
The crux of the matter is: You need to be able to kill tons of tanks by shooting at them on 5th edition. Armies who can't do that are the suck.
FWIW, I heard rumors of plastic kits.
Eldar is simply outclassed by Dark Eldar. Massed S6 doesn't scare anybody and they are waaay too dependant on psychic powers on the age of psychic hoods everywere. They are still somewhat annoying though.
Tau, well, the basic truth of shooting > cc still applies. And Tau shoot like nobody's business, Crisis Suits+Railguns behind the Kroot wall can destroy armies. Can get boring to play, I'll admit.
Nids, well, between the crap FAQ and shoody Cruddace writing (I see him getting fired like Thorpe was), have only one viable build: Spamming Hive Guard (now in expensive Finecast!) and Tyrannofexes (no model). And people figured how to beat that already. Specially Dark Eldar and Grey Knights, which can use their mobility to destroy the defenses of Nids and then murder them with mass poison/force weapons.
GK Stormravens and Jaws also simply delete the Synapse MCs (the lynchpin of the tyranid army) off the field.
The crux of the matter is: You need to be able to kill tons of tanks by shooting at them on 5th edition. Armies who can't do that are the suck.
Also, I think I might just mention it so everyone can laugh at it:
Ninja Tau
(If you know what the term means, you probably know why it's stupid)
Nids seem to have a problem of so much of their good stuff being Elite (Fuckyoustealers saw great popularity at the Marion store, then there's "Doom of Everything", as well as Hive Guard and Zoanthropes - with low point/infantryspam games also seeing Venomthropes as useful. Even against vehicles though, their defensive ability of providing cover is handy). Heavy isn't actually that great, HQ is all right but not that great, Fast isn't very exciting and Troops won't be breaking any tanks any time soon.
And Eldar... they have a good Elite choice (Fire Dragons), a good Fast choice (Vypers), and then everything else they actually *want* is Heavy (you either take a trio of Prisms, or you want Falcons (decent firepower + transport) and War Walkers maybe and also Wraithlords if it's a small battlefield/you're defending something, and if fighting marines you might consider Reapers). Troops is largely "Let's steal an objective late-game with outflanking Jetbikes" unless you use FW (you don't) to take Deep Striking War Walkers.
It's like all their good stuff is shoved into the one category, so you have to ration it out, then look dejectedly at your remaining points and other slots.
Ninja Tau
(If you know what the term means, you probably know why it's stupid)
Nids seem to have a problem of so much of their good stuff being Elite (Fuckyoustealers saw great popularity at the Marion store, then there's "Doom of Everything", as well as Hive Guard and Zoanthropes - with low point/infantryspam games also seeing Venomthropes as useful. Even against vehicles though, their defensive ability of providing cover is handy). Heavy isn't actually that great, HQ is all right but not that great, Fast isn't very exciting and Troops won't be breaking any tanks any time soon.
And Eldar... they have a good Elite choice (Fire Dragons), a good Fast choice (Vypers), and then everything else they actually *want* is Heavy (you either take a trio of Prisms, or you want Falcons (decent firepower + transport) and War Walkers maybe and also Wraithlords if it's a small battlefield/you're defending something, and if fighting marines you might consider Reapers). Troops is largely "Let's steal an objective late-game with outflanking Jetbikes" unless you use FW (you don't) to take Deep Striking War Walkers.
It's like all their good stuff is shoved into the one category, so you have to ration it out, then look dejectedly at your remaining points and other slots.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Re: The state of Miniature Wargaming
Maxus wrote:Blender and make a smoothy? Otherwise, mustard.Koumei wrote:If that turns out to be a great joke though, I will need recipes for hats and a fucking webcam.
This is why it always important to have a hat made of fruit and flowers.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
There are some smaller games doing OK.
Spartan's Dystopian Wars seems to have a reasonable ruleset and a constant stream of releases and product support other systems wish they had. Eventually they will run out of steam (ha ha), but until then I think that they're doing alright.
Malifaux has a nice theme and the people I know who play it tell me that it's a decent game. It seems to get a reasonable amount of coverage.
Battletech is not crash hot. CGL has again released a boxed set, once again containing the worst miniatures available today. Only GW's finecast comes close, and at least some of the finecast models look ok. Plenty of pdf releases, which seem to be CGL's bread and butter TBH.
Plenty of people are buying Mantic's miniatures, their game rules for KoW seem substantially better than fantasy, if over simplified. The beta scifi fules have an issue with toughness of vehicles, but if they get the rules sorted out, I can see people playing those rules over GW - if only because they have some semblance of balance.
Spartan's Dystopian Wars seems to have a reasonable ruleset and a constant stream of releases and product support other systems wish they had. Eventually they will run out of steam (ha ha), but until then I think that they're doing alright.
Malifaux has a nice theme and the people I know who play it tell me that it's a decent game. It seems to get a reasonable amount of coverage.
Battletech is not crash hot. CGL has again released a boxed set, once again containing the worst miniatures available today. Only GW's finecast comes close, and at least some of the finecast models look ok. Plenty of pdf releases, which seem to be CGL's bread and butter TBH.
Plenty of people are buying Mantic's miniatures, their game rules for KoW seem substantially better than fantasy, if over simplified. The beta scifi fules have an issue with toughness of vehicles, but if they get the rules sorted out, I can see people playing those rules over GW - if only because they have some semblance of balance.
King Francis I's Mother said wrote:The love between the kings was not just of the beard, but of the heart
Well, those small games do seem to be doing ok.
About Mantic, their minis are bought only because they are cheaper than GW's, and Kings of War maybe will be played as an alternative to the fuckup that is 8th edition Fantasy.
But I really don't see people playing much of their sci-fi game. 40k 5th edition, despite some complaints, is actually a solid ruleset. If the fuckup 6th edition, that's a different story, but the message of the Fantasy ship sinking like the Titanic should stop that.
Mantic will be doing their income from minis sales alone for the next 2-3 years at least.
About Mantic, their minis are bought only because they are cheaper than GW's, and Kings of War maybe will be played as an alternative to the fuckup that is 8th edition Fantasy.
But I really don't see people playing much of their sci-fi game. 40k 5th edition, despite some complaints, is actually a solid ruleset. If the fuckup 6th edition, that's a different story, but the message of the Fantasy ship sinking like the Titanic should stop that.
Mantic will be doing their income from minis sales alone for the next 2-3 years at least.
Yeah. Note their big new thing for WHFB is "Well, Apocalypse was (and still is) successful, despite chopping out a lot of the strategy and "be careful with selecting your lists" and "Hahaha, your codex is shit". Let's do that. Oh, and Planetstrike was kind of popular, we like making people buy new scenery and books."Gx1080 wrote:If the fuckup 6th edition, that's a different story, but the message of the Fantasy ship sinking like the Titanic should stop that.
They sat down, said "Let's make Apocalypse for Fantasy" and went home early. So anyone can apparently summon undead/daemons (with risks if that's not your actual army), anyone can take any kind of big monster to summon onto the field, new big monsters with expensive kits, new mega spells, special terrain kits you're encouraged to buy because it's all about holding objectives (see: it works for 40k!)
They're basically trying to make it more like 40K, the successful one.
Which is odd, given I've read rumours* that 6th Ed is on the horizon and some of the ideas involve cribbing notes from WHFB - that you can only Move, then Charge OR Shoot (charging before shooting, so if you assault someone, your mates can't shoot them), and being charged lets you choose whether to fight back, flee or SHOOT THE MOTHERFUCKERS AS THEY CHARGE, FINALLY MY DAY HAS COME.**
*We're not talking "Here is what C: Necrons is looking like", we're talking actual rumours that could very easily be horseshit.
**As this benefits my army, I am assuming this won't happen. Then again, it gives Marines a benefit against Nids, so maybe they will do that.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Most (if not all) 6th edition rumors seem like a pile of bullshit. They also seem like throwing out *all* the ideas with fake "leaks" to see reactions.
Why they can't do a public playtesting is beyong me. Oh yeah, because that would mean actually interacting with the playerbase, and they seem to think that the playerbase lives exclusively on Warseer. Which I find insulting.
Why they can't do a public playtesting is beyong me. Oh yeah, because that would mean actually interacting with the playerbase, and they seem to think that the playerbase lives exclusively on Warseer. Which I find insulting.
Hate is a strong word.
And I could find ways to despise most of the people at a LGS. Magic "pro" douches, YGO cheating kiddies, WM bitter zealots, D&D useless edition wars, etc.
People suck. Specially nerds. You* are going to find a way to deal with it, specially if you are selling them something.
*Generic "you" not specific "you". This applies to a lot of people
And I could find ways to despise most of the people at a LGS. Magic "pro" douches, YGO cheating kiddies, WM bitter zealots, D&D useless edition wars, etc.
People suck. Specially nerds. You* are going to find a way to deal with it, specially if you are selling them something.
*Generic "you" not specific "you". This applies to a lot of people
Just on that, Mantic has only one income stream and that is their minis. The rules are given away for free. A more cynical person might say that it's just a butt covering exercise.Gx1080 wrote: Mantic will be doing their income from minis sales alone for the next 2-3 years at least.
I suspect that there are several non-space marine players willing to try the rules, though.
King Francis I's Mother said wrote:The love between the kings was not just of the beard, but of the heart
I've gone on about at least HoTT and DB* in the past, but there are few players in my area. I think that they're decent systems, which I'd like to see played more. Probably a little abstract for most players. Warmaster has no support, so little that it's hard (and often expensive) to get into now. I'd really like to see warzone and Chronopia resurrected, but there's little chance of that happening.
King Francis I's Mother said wrote:The love between the kings was not just of the beard, but of the heart
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TheFlatline
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Username17
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Yeah, I really liked the look of Chronopia Dwarves and Orcs. I use them for D&D a lot. But unfortunately, the old Target enterprises are not coming back.
I blame the Lizard army for sinking Chronopia. They went of and made a new army set before they finished their line. So I couldn't field my Blackbloods without a bunch of proxies and they tried to do some sort of expansion thing ad it all fell apart.
-Username17
I blame the Lizard army for sinking Chronopia. They went of and made a new army set before they finished their line. So I couldn't field my Blackbloods without a bunch of proxies and they tried to do some sort of expansion thing ad it all fell apart.
-Username17
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TheFlatline
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Thread resurrection but I remembered this thread the other day.
I went into a game shop in San Jose today, not even the biggest game shop in the bay area, and was gobsmacked at the variety of miniature wargames in stock. Probably an easy 20-25 games with wide selections. Games Workshop and Warmachine were relatively small offerings compared to the other games. It was kind of nuts. Probably half of the shelve space in the store was figs, with most of the other half being boardgames and RPGs.
They did have a back room full of tables and war terrain and stuff, which I suspect makes a big difference all in all. That being said, there's a surprisingly robust miniatures market out there it seems like.
I went into a game shop in San Jose today, not even the biggest game shop in the bay area, and was gobsmacked at the variety of miniature wargames in stock. Probably an easy 20-25 games with wide selections. Games Workshop and Warmachine were relatively small offerings compared to the other games. It was kind of nuts. Probably half of the shelve space in the store was figs, with most of the other half being boardgames and RPGs.
They did have a back room full of tables and war terrain and stuff, which I suspect makes a big difference all in all. That being said, there's a surprisingly robust miniatures market out there it seems like.
Well, since this is here, might as well post it.
White Dwarf Sisters of Battle codex was released, and you guessed it, is just a bunch of unplaytested nerfbat only put there because people whined about IG+Mystics on Ard's Boys (nevermind that 2500 pts breaks the game anyways) and people whined harder when they tried to simply delete the allies rule.
@TheFlatline
Miniatures market, not miniature wargaming. Honestly, the future is a shitload of small squad-based games with pure .pdf rules+updates. And tons of Heroclix. You will NEVER see a game with more than 30 minis per side again, if that.
Is kinda depressing (at least to me), but there you go.
And Warmachine is screwed if GW dies before they get their own decent IP exploitation instead of leeching off frustrated GW players.
White Dwarf Sisters of Battle codex was released, and you guessed it, is just a bunch of unplaytested nerfbat only put there because people whined about IG+Mystics on Ard's Boys (nevermind that 2500 pts breaks the game anyways) and people whined harder when they tried to simply delete the allies rule.
@TheFlatline
Miniatures market, not miniature wargaming. Honestly, the future is a shitload of small squad-based games with pure .pdf rules+updates. And tons of Heroclix. You will NEVER see a game with more than 30 minis per side again, if that.
Is kinda depressing (at least to me), but there you go.
And Warmachine is screwed if GW dies before they get their own decent IP exploitation instead of leeching off frustrated GW players.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Why is no one going to run games where people run 90+ figurine armies in the future? Is it too expensive/too hard to run/too hard to get all the pieces/too time consuming to paint? Do the games that enjoy that kind of thing threaten to dissolve? If it's that, then why wouldn't some other company revive that model? I thought that the model was to try to soak players for as many figurines as they could expect their audience to afford--which obviously means encouraging players to field armies as big as they can get.
Of course there's the issue that one big WG company could convince you to drop money on 100 figurines more easily than one small company, but that's assuming that some young turk won't grow the pie higher and eat the market.
Of course there's the issue that one big WG company could convince you to drop money on 100 figurines more easily than one small company, but that's assuming that some young turk won't grow the pie higher and eat the market.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Lago PARANOIA
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I mean, really, if the Internet and cheap-as-free videogames haven't killed off MtG and YGO yet, I have an extra hard time believing that wargaming is going away soon. I mean at least in wargames you have the collectible figurine aspect while in CCGs you have... cardboard pictures. Which you can get from printing from the Internet.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.