Aryxbez wrote:(sighs)
Shadzar....why he's so stringent on RPG's being within his narrow minded opinion, or the equivalent of free-form ("tag! you're it" has more rules than that crap) I can only guess. Well, do realize when you make changes for the better, those are in fact, advancements within the medium. Otherwise, seem to not have an understanding as what is meant by the word "evolved" seem to overly semanticize words, taking such broad conclusions...welcome to the Gaming Den! (yes, I know he's been here for awhile)
Speaking of semantics...
shadzar wrote:
RPGs dont evolve because you change the system around or add more fiddly bits like feats. shoving a broomstick up your ass did mean you evolved, you just did something VERY gay, and now have a broomstick up your ass.
Yay, let it go on record that Shadzar said that you DO in fact evolve! Given that example, and
Shadzar's knowledge, it's very well possible it's a method he is personally familiar with (it explains so much...), especially given it implies to make him very "happy".
Let's see...to hell with realism, but not consistency (big difference in RPG context), actually build GOOD games, so we can focus more on playing, and less on worrying if our character concepts will actually function as they're advertised to done so.
1. its called a spell checker, not a mind reader. even if it were a grammar checker, the statement would have been grammatically correct. it doesnt KNOW when you intend to use a negative rather than positive. now get the broomstick out of your ass.
2. the medium is words. understand than in regards to evolution. electronic is NOT better objectively than dead-tree stock. it just offers some different features. dead-tree stock also offers features than electronic medium does not. the medium is still the written word, and it hasnt changed that much in millennia.
3.
changes for the better
subjective. there will NEVER be an agreed upon set of criteria to quantify the changes to assign a value relative to "better".
Group A: better is more codified, more "choices", less thinking
Group B: better is less codified, more choice, more room to think
what is "better" for both groups here?
4. evolve means exactly as they have said it to be and you just illustrated. technology tries to take the word in the "evolving" English language, and assign to it their own technical definition. i dont abide by that shit that propagates misunderstanding of words. choose the right word even if it sounds less pleasing, and would sell less product in an advertisement. the word looking for outside of advertising jargon is "change", not evolve.
evolve means moving to a next level. "fish" evolved to breathe out of water.
what you are talking about as well as the advertisements that want to use a catchy word to hype on the "next gen" as if technology was a living thing and has lifespan and generations...well the right word is metamorphosis (see tadpoles and frogs), as that is what D&D has undergone. a mutation, not an evolution. but being a sheep with the wool pulled over its eyes and a fad-follower who will by the "new shiny", you dont understand this concept because you only follow the hype and jump on any bandwagon that get you into the popular culture fads.
5. no fucking D&D book has been anything but wordy shit trying to explain what an RPG is. over complicated fucking ideas rather than simple description. read any edition pre-WotC, as well MANY other RPGs and you will find the root description of an RPG.
as a player, you assume the role of a someone in the game world.
it is as simple as that. not the horse shit "roles" brought out by MMOs. fighter is a class, not a role. the role is the PC. for the DM the role is "anything NOT a PC".
so when you are talking about the "freeform" being narrow minded, remember that this is D&D, not WoW. if you want something other than D&D offers, just go find it. D&D is ONE game and has a right to be narrow-minded and have its own focus.
if you want to you can change the focus, but dont try to falsely obscure it for all, just change it at your game. play the setting you choose out of the 20+ published official worlds. but due to YOUR narrow-minded needs you want to reduce the game to something that is less open so it only serves YOU. because as usual these people NEED to play D&D to be popular and must be able to jump on the band-wagon, instead of r3ealizing, D&D doesnt need you, or anybody. your wants outweigh your needs. you want to play D&D so bad, but dont like it. but you want to play it to be accepted. which is puzzling since you could have more fun playing something you like rather than change something you dont like to be that other thing, just with the D&D name on it.
obviously the half-car-half-truck is the only car now because people couldnt agree, so everyone drives an El Camino, and manufacturers stopped producing cars and trucks...or did they jsut accept people like different things and rather than force a change on one, created different things for people to be able to choose because MOST people arent buying something just for the name which you obsessively need in the case of playing D&D.
your utopia doesnt work, not all restaurants are Taco Bell. Demolition Man was a fictional movie. please join reality than your fictional world.
why do YO need D&D so much if you dont like what it is or was? why much it be changed for YOU, or anyone else? why can you not play something else?
NOTE: girls are allowed to play in school football teams, but the NFL has NO female players. insurance companies are the ones that prevent this. the law can say a female player must be allowed on a team I they are qualified to play, but VERY VERY VERY FEW women would qualify to be fielded, and insurance companies would likely insure them, so they would never see play. it would cost too much tax money to do studies to figure out what the true cost of a women player would be, and there just isnt enough that want to be in the NFL, and tax payers wont foot the bill for some stupid fucking old men doing public exhibitions of exercising.
nothing stops them from making their own sporting league. (see League of Their Own)
get over YOUR obsession with needing to be a part of D&D, and realize, that you can have another game. D&D doesnt have to be the only game, so widen your view, and find one that works for you if you dont like D&D. adapt D&D to your needs at YOUR table. or jsut make the game that fits YOUR needs, and if you are lucky and enough people agree with you, they will buy and play it and you will have enough players outside your current group.
what is that thing people say about changing something so much it is no longer the same thing? i think it is about repairing a car, and how many parts do you replace before it isnt the same car...? oh well, with games you dont have to worry about that because you can create a new game at any time. just look at the travesty that is 4th edition and you can easily see that changing too much people say it is no longer the same thing, no matter who owns a copyright.
Frank (the one here) has a game of his own. Gygax didnt only make D&D he made about 30 different games for 30 different purposes. Mentzer is working on a new game that isnt D&D, though he made the best version or widest used version of D&D.
only when D&D stops being a brand and becomes again a game that has a franchise of products, will it again be able to do its job right. to illustrate this i will use 4th edition to show how it COULD be a D&D franchise product.
1. remove 4th edition..that just goes to show a cancelling of one system for a new one.
2. name it as something else, such as the d20 systems did: Modern, Fantasy, Sci-Fi (was this what it is called?)
see there is a d20 franchise, not a brand. that is how "4th" could fit with D&D proprietary components, without being D&D. how to get the popular d&D name on it? well that is disputed if it SHOULD have that name, but it IS possible.
some ideas are within the naming such as D&D and AD&D are two different games before WotC fucked that up with 3rd:
D&D: Powers Edition
D&D: Superhero Edition
you get the idea, break it OUT of the enumeration, so that you can have BOTH. that creates a franchise like the brand McDonalds, has more than a single store and EACH is a franchise. they dont ALL follow the exact same menu, but have a core connection. those proprietary and trademarked D&D elements would be that core connection.
many still wouldnt accept the D&D name being on 4th, but you get the idea. they just have to stop cancelling one edition when they want to make a new one, then they could have a thriving franchise, rather than a dying brand. and 30+ settings does NOT a franchise make....