Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

[Prak]

Huh. The last time I played a character in a 5e game that would have cared about AoOs was a *long* time ago (if ever?), so I guess I misremembered (though obviously I wasn't sure about that recollection). Mostly I play spellcasters who stay the fuck out of any situation where they'd get or provoke an AoO.

[Aryxbez]

Dungeons & Dragons & Pathfinder & So On tend to have a grid based combat system with push pull and opportunity attacks, then say "Forced movement doesn't provoke OA's"

So does D&D5e actually 'break' if forced movement does provoke OA's, or does it become more fun

As I understand, you have a "Reaction" which is like your Immediate Action/Trigger Action, that you spend to make an Attack of Opportunity (SoTDL is the same way). Also I heard it's expected for enemies to go down in 4-5 hits, so it wouldn't really matter if had someone spamming forced movement to get a Team Aoo on a target.

Now, I do wonder if 5e would be better if it had 4e's limits for Aoo/Opportunity Attacks (equal to 1 per Target), and 3e's Reach Rules (with maybe a clause letting you attack adjacent with All Reach Weapons).

[Aryxbez]

Sorry to Double Post, but my inquiry: Does anyone have the link to FrankTrollman's work he did on the Dark Age Vampire Political Game he was going to do for a campaign? (Up until said White Wolf players got a boner for AC: Black Flag, and abandoned the campaign to go become Vampire Pirates). Haven't been able to find it since, and it bothers the hell out of me.

[Koumei]

Does anyone else feel like you've hit a roadblock in gaming, where you just can't be fucked learning new entire game systems, so for the rest of your life it's going to be "the handful of systems I know and like, and each time a system falls out of favour with everyone else, that's one fewer thing available to me, it's not getting replaced"?

[Foxwarrior]

Oh no, you've become a codger

[Koumei]

I was born middle-aged, and only became more grumpy and curmudgeonly over time. I probably became a codger at around 8. Now at 37 I have the urge to shoot the birds that make noises when I want to sleep, and also anyone who knocks on the door.

[Prak]

For a good while I was like that. I think my growing queerness also de-codgered me.

[Thaluikhain]

Still collecting GW models, not learnt Age of Sigmar or Age of Primaris Marine rules, so yeah.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Does anyone else feel like you've hit a roadblock in gaming, where you just can't be fucked learning new entire game systems, so for the rest of your life it's going to be "the handful of systems I know and like, and each time a system falls out of favour with everyone else, that's one fewer thing available to me, it's not getting replaced"?

Nope. I'm the only one who ever wants to play anything besides 5e anyway.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Does anyone else feel like you've hit a roadblock in gaming, where you just can't be fucked learning new entire game systems, so for the rest of your life it's going to be "the handful of systems I know and like, and each time a system falls out of favour with everyone else, that's one fewer thing available to me, it's not getting replaced"?

Sounds like depression.

Honestly, I'd be happier if there were more new game systems to learn. It seems like everything that comes out these days is either PbtA or some kind of weird throwback. I was recently given a recommendation for an RPG that turned out to be, I shit you not, a fucking Rolemaster retroclone. None of the reviews I've seen even mention this, I assume because none of the reviewers had ever heard of RM.

For my own part, I'm probably never going to stop examining new games because even the otherwise trash ones often have one or two worthwhile innovations to extract.

[JonSetanta]

Does anyone else feel like you've hit a roadblock in gaming, where you just can't be fucked learning new entire game systems, so for the rest of your life it's going to be "the handful of systems I know and like, and each time a system falls out of favour with everyone else, that's one fewer thing available to me, it's not getting replaced"?

Nope, I enjoy trying new games all the time, although I will dissect and lecture about the mechanic flaws to my fellow gamers.

[erik]

I'm still down to learn new RPGs so long as friends are interested in it and it isn't one of the rules lite ones that you try and finagle your traits as being relevant for whatever challenge. I haven't learned any new RPGs for years (not counting the various retroclones my friend keeps bringing, since that are basically just learning new bad house rules for the same old crap), but that's not on me, that's just on the industry for not making anything worth learning. Eventually someone will publish something worth learning and I'll be down for it.

What I don't care for is learning yet more Magic the Gathering mechanics. A friend turned me on to MTGpq a while back, basically gem matching mobile game + MTG, and I'm fed up with the diminishing returns of learning new mechanics. They're usually just gimmicky twists on old mechanics and I can't be fucked to care.

[Dogbert]

Does anyone else feel like you've hit a roadblock in gaming, where you just can't be fucked learning new entire game systems, so for the rest of your life it's going to be "the handful of systems I know and like, and each time a system falls out of favour with everyone else, that's one fewer thing available to me, it's not getting replaced"?

There is a difference between Growing The Beard... and Growing The NECKBeard. Please avoid the latter. The moment you shut yourself from new possibilities is the moment you're officially an obsolete grognard. You're too young for that.

[Koumei]

A big part of it is that I'm not interested in "one of the rules lite ones that you try and finagle your traits as being relevant for whatever challenge." because Maid already exists, why would I need something else that does that? I like something crunchy with plenty of options (both in character creation/advancement and in actual play). Which necessitates a big rule book with a lot of stuff. I want to get interested in Lancer, for instance, but that needs more focus than I can bring to bear.

I have had suspicions about potential attention disorders for a while and, a few months ago, managed to get an appointment with a brain-talk-doctor next January, so hopefully they can get me onto the speed-but-it-technically-isn't-speed-but-really-it-is and that can fix this.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I think the problem is the games industry, not your brain. There's not really a lot of crunchy games with plenty of options coming out right now.
But hey, speed is nice.

[erik]

I think the problem is the games industry, not your brain. There's not really a lot of crunchy games with plenty of options coming out right now.

Very much this.

But hey, speed is nice.

And maybe very much this too.


I was very disappointed when I saw what rule engine was planned for Lancer. There is no joy for me in building characters in a system where you basically pick a handful of traits, and frankly half the fun of an RPG for me is getting to build and plan characters and do some min maxing.

[Foxwarrior]

See, this is why I moved away from game design and towards art.

[Prak]

I think the problem is the games industry, not your brain. There's not really a lot of crunchy games with plenty of options coming out right now.

Very much this.

But hey, speed is nice.

And maybe very much this too.


I was very disappointed when I saw what rule engine was planned for Lancer. There is no joy for me in building characters in a system where you basically pick a handful of traits, and frankly half the fun of an RPG for me is getting to build and plan characters and do some min maxing.

I think "pick some traits" has it's place, and it's strengths, but, like... FATE already exists. I genuinely have a hard time believing there's a "pick some traits" system that's better than how FATE does things. I'm open to the idea one exists, but, I feel like whatever system comes out that does this better than FATE is just going to be a FATE hack that's specifically tailored to a certain genre or type of game. Class systems... 3.X has a lot of problems, but I've yet to see a class system that is better than 3.x, save, perhaps, for Pathfinder, but Pathfinder has a lot of steps back for all its steps forward. Archetypes are great, CMB/CMD is bullshit (maybe I just haven't played with it enough, but it feels like it just took the special attacks options of 3.x and made them more complicated while pretending to simplify them). And while I'm ok with a simplified class system for some games... I'm reasonably happy with "5e and homebrew" for that niche.

I don't know. Maybe I'm in sort of the same boat, but for me it's not so much "I don't want to learn new systems" as "I'm open to new systems, but they have to actually be better than something I know."

[erik]

If it's gonna be rules lite, then I'd rather someone created a Red Dragon Inn version where your adventurer is basically like one of those characters but actually geared up for adventuring rather than drinking hi-jinks. Can have a character creation aspect where you build your deck(s), and can level up to get larger hand and better cards. Basically everyone is playing a WoF character.

I want my rules defined and not to have to feel like I am rules-lawyering every time I attempt anything and have to justify what modifiers I should get. That shit repels me.

[JonSetanta]

Best wishes on your appointment, Koumei.

I'm seeing yet another therapist since I legit gave two of them burnout years ago by telling them about the abuse I endured as a kid, then had someone off and on for two years that asked "So how does that make you feel?" every five minutes.

[pragma]

Scattershot affirmations:
* I also would like to be interested in Lancer, but giant robots just aren't my genre. Even so, I should give the playtest rules a one-shot sometime.
* Echoing erik, I think a rules-heavy RPG where characters are represented by decks is a money-printing machine waiting to happen.
* I also don't see a lot on the market that justifies investing time and effort learning rules. I already learned Blades in the Dark, so do I also need to do Fate and Apocalypse World? I think not. (That said, one of my groups right now is full of Star Trek nerds, so I guess I should read Traveller.)

[Koumei]

The reason I chose Lancer is I specifically want to look at some mecha stuff, ideally with collateral damage, giant explosions when they're taken out of action etc. Now, Lancer doesn't seem to have much of the latter there, but that's easy enough to patch in, and it sort of has a level system (complete mission -> increase in rank -> get better weaponry or mecha). Creating a character is a very simple and boring affair, sure, but choosing a mecha then outfitting it with bits and pieces is fun. And I'm not really sure what other options there are (excluding PbtA which can fuck off).

[Zaranthan]

CMB/CMD is bullshit (maybe I just haven't played with it enough, but it feels like it just took the special attacks options of 3.x and made them more complicated while pretending to simplify them).

That's not feels, that's fact. They took a great idea: make all the combat tricks use a unified bonus so spells and class features can give bonuses and penalties without needing a paragraph to describe it and a chart too keep track of your character's bonuses. Then they completely fucked the pooch by making every instance of such bonuses specific to one or two maneuvers anyway.

[Prak]

CMB/CMD is bullshit (maybe I just haven't played with it enough, but it feels like it just took the special attacks options of 3.x and made them more complicated while pretending to simplify them).

That's not feels, that's fact. They took a great idea: make all the combat tricks use a unified bonus so spells and class features can give bonuses and penalties without needing a paragraph to describe it and a chart too keep track of your character's bonuses. Then they completely fucked the pooch by making every instance of such bonuses specific to one or two maneuvers anyway.

I mean.... I kind of get how that happens. Cutting all special attacks down to applications of a single modifier is a good thing that makes sense, but then you have to go all the fucking way and discard differentiating special attacks and just say "if you're good at grappling, you're just as good at tripping, and we don't care about being more granular than that."

---

I had a weird game design thought and I'm apparently a masochist (ok, I already knew that...) so I'm curious what people think of a hypothetical setting/system where, instead of choosing a race, like elf or dwarf, you chose your character's "magical race-neutral based on birth archetype" ie, their astrological sign. Because it's fucking fantasy and stars influencing peoples' traits makes as much sense as finger tutting and shouting for three seconds while holding bat shit and immolating someone a quarter of a mile away.

If I actually made a game/setting where you chose a star sign instead of race, I would probably then say "pick three traits from below" and then list stuff associated with fantasy races, so you can make your Taurus Fighter an Elf or whatever.

[Thaluikhain]

I had a weird game design thought and I'm apparently a masochist (ok, I already knew that...) so I'm curious what people think of a hypothetical setting/system where, instead of choosing a race, like elf or dwarf, you chose your character's "magical race-neutral based on birth archetype" ie, their astrological sign. Because it's fucking fantasy and stars influencing peoples' traits makes as much sense as finger tutting and shouting for three seconds while holding bat shit and immolating someone a quarter of a mile away.

On the Giant in the Playground site, there's a thing where people are different based on being born during the day or night, which I think is better, because it's not something you can predict, whereas lots of animals are born are certain times of year. and you could try avoiding people being born in July if you wanted. Alternatively, you could go for phase of the moon, or what the tides are like.