The Gaming Den

Ok, so I'm working on this adventure with werewolf monks. I want the lead alpha to be able to basically dash around the battlefield and hit a bunch of people in one round, continuously moving. Using Tome Monk class, and published (not-tome) feats, is there a way for a Were Dire Wolf Monk2 to hit at least three people, on the run, in a round?

I think there are some (or one?) desert wind maneuver that do what you want. Might need an higher level to pull off...

Edit: or Setting Sun?

Desert Tempest
L6 Desert Wind Strike
Full Round Action
Move up to your speed. Each time you exit a square adjacent to an enemy, you may make a single melee attack against that foe. You cannot target a single enemy more than once with this maneuver. Your movement provokes as normal.

I recommend just giving it to your werewolf and the players can just deal with it.

Actually, I found that you can do it with Monk Fighting Styles, just taking advantage of the fact that people get AoOs against you when you move past them. So, that works. He moves by, people get AoOs, and his Fighting Style lets him counter immediately.

I remember seeing that somewhere.
I was going to combine it with stunning fist for maximum hilarity.

-e-
I just had a thought. People are going to stop taking their AOO's probably the first time someone gets their shit slapped. Your plan is only going to work out for one round.

It's a monster the players will fight. Exactly how many rounds do you think its lifespan is, anyway?

Actually, given that he's CR 6 fighting Lvl 4 characters... he'll be up a few rounds.

The Rapid Blitz feat from PHB2 also grants this capability, but it sounds like it's at the wrong CR for what you're trying to do.

echo

Yeah, that's pretty much what I want, but also way to high a level. May make a DM Fudge call. Or just change the prereqs and let players know...

One of the things that continually frustrated me when first starting out on our system design was how most systems seem terrified of letting a single unit attack multiple other units in melee during a single action. I have never been able to figure out why this is so, particularly when it's exactly the type of ability which would make battles against a "boss" enemy interesting and challenging. Furthermore, it's an ability players can enjoy and use in interesting tactical ways. Powers like Murderous Cleave and Rapid Blitz should be usable from starting levels in my opinion.

Needless to say, in our system, abilities like these are available at level 1.

echo

Interesting. What was the fallout? Were there really any problems?

echoVanguard wrote:One of the things that continually frustrated me when first starting out on our system design was how most systems seem terrified of letting a single unit attack multiple other units in melee during a single action. I have never been able to figure out why this is so, particularly when it's exactly the type of ability which would make battles against a "boss" enemy interesting and challenging. Furthermore, it's an ability players can enjoy and use in interesting tactical ways. Powers like Murderous Cleave and Rapid Blitz should be usable from starting levels in my opinion.

Needless to say, in our system, abilities like these are available at level 1.

echo

You notice this in vidjagames too. In Dragon Age: Origins, wizards get AoEs basically from the getgo. But warriors don't get a "whirlwind" attack ability until the very last tier of one of their talent trees. It's a weird setup that can probably be traced to subconscious realism bullshit.

But what's even odder is that fiction and movies and (nonRPG) games are totally full of dudes smiting many other dudes at the same time. I don't really get it.

Blicero wrote:
You notice this in vidjagames too. In Dragon Age: Origins, wizards get AoEs basically from the getgo. But warriors don't get a "whirlwind" attack ability until the very last tier of one of their talent trees. It's a weird setup that can probably be traced to subconscious realism bullshit.

But what's even odder is that fiction and movies and (nonRPG) games are totally full of dudes smiting many other dudes at the same time. I don't really get it.

Indeed, Lord of the Rings even has characters cleaving through dozens of enemies, like they all got Great cleave for free, and maybe some Supreme Cleave for good measure.

Even in Skyrim, they tend to hold back on area effects, even the martial type character only gets such an attack for two handed weapon skill, and only when it's at rating 70. So you're probably looking at 50 points to go till then, to even slightly have an ability that can do an area attack. If it's to any consolation, least Dynasty/Samurai-Warrior games have their characters chopping through hundreds of soldiers.

Prak_Anima wrote:Interesting. What was the fallout? Were there really any problems?

In terms of resultant behavior, it seems to lessen the amount of focus-fire being thrown around (since players can up their total DPS by spreading the damage), which we count as a good thing. We haven't hit upon anything we would consider an actual problem in our internal playtests so far, but those are pretty limited. We're hoping that public playtesting will shake out the assuredly numerous things we're missing.

echo

In tome, are the changes to Constructs, and addition of the Unliving subtype that make it possible to crit constructs and undead intended to allow sneak attacks as well, or are Golem Strike and Grave Strike still valid?

One of the players in my game has asked me this, and I can't find it. Is there a spell that grants the Ghost touch ability to a weapon, and what is it called?

Ghost Touch Weapon (or Armour). Cleric 4 ( or Cleric 2, Wizard Sorcerer 2), Libris Mortis.

Ah, thanks for the swift reply. I will ensure your death is quick and painless. (Note: That is me trying to make a joke and should not be interpreted as a threat)

Also, something I want to ask regarding a game I'm running now.

A player in my game has given a minor criticism about how I ran a hydra. Basically, the hydra grabbed one of the players, then tried swimming off to its lair to eat said PC. The player stated that it would have done more damage just by full attacking every round. I contend that it was a neutrally aligned predator of animal intelligence. It didn't hate the PCs any more than a shark hates a tuna; it was hungry and wanted a snack. Also, it figured (incorrectly) that its fast healing ability would allow it to get away from the PC's before dying (the spellcasters in the party saw to it that didn't happen).

I think that's perfectly legitimate. I would only tell my player that I'll redo it, and have the hydra grab everyone (up to number of heads) and swim away.

A hydra cares about surviving, not "dealing more damage". If it can isolate one PC, take it away, eat it, and then maybe come back for more metal-wrapped snacks, it will do that instead of full-attacking every round until a group of 3-6 heroes stabs it to death.

Man, if you have a player that wants a Hydra to rip him apart, I say that you indulge him.

I think the player was probably more unhappy about the hydra running to where he couldn't hit it. Just a guess.

...You Lost Me wrote:A hydra cares about surviving, not "dealing more damage". If it can isolate one PC, take it away, eat it, and then maybe come back for more metal-wrapped snacks, it will do that instead of full-attacking every round until a group of 3-6 heroes stabs it to death.

I'm going to say *most* monsters & NPCs care about survival more than "dealing more damage".

Yeah sure a wild animal that's pissed off will probably fight to the death. But Bob the Orc probably has better plans than getting stabbed to death by the wandering hobos. Unless they kick the door in and he has nowhere to run, or he and his buddies feel reasonably sure that they'll win an encounter, they probably won't go out of their way to interact with the PCs.

One of the biggest changes in my tenure as MC of various games was to institute the "save my own sweet ass" rule, whereby most NPCs *want* to live.

Generally, wild animals don't want to fight at all. Random animal attacks are one of the stupidest fantasy tropes around. Barring pretty rare and bad situations, predators don't get into fights. They spook the prey animals and take opportunity kills (the slow calf trips or gets separated from the herd)

Usually (and somewhat paradoxically) a creature has to be intelligent in order to be dumb enough to stick around and fight to the death. A wild animal that is pissed off will try to drive whatever pissed it off *away*. That isn't to say it can't kill, but the primary thing is it wants the threat gone, and it doesn't really care how that happens.