It's clear what you hate, but what do you love?

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:09 am

What are the things in RPGs that make you happy? Mechanics, settings, everything really.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:23 am

Nowhere near inclusive; I love the Planescape setting, 2e MnM power design, & the Same Game Test.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:32 am

Well fuck you then.

I enjoy narrative bullshit mechanics and MTP. I also like spells that fvcking kill people.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:34 am

I really like it when a system provides its characters with enough variety of fairly open ended powers that I can throw relatively convoluted problems at the players without neccessarily having a clear idea of how they'll overcome them, and yet be pretty sure that they will be able to come up with something.

Mechanics wise i prefer simple, clean mechanics to long, convoluted rules that you have to look up every time. Falling damage being D6 per 10' may be unrealistic, but i can remember it on the fly. The grapple rules? Not so much.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:53 am

I really like character development and player engagement. Mechanics wise I like a game that encourages (not forces) team play. I actually like lengthy, deep character creation. i am one of those few people that do not mind taking a long ass time to build a character as long as the details are observed and utilized by the gm.

Murtak · Post by **Murtak** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:01 am

I love 7th Sea's version of disadvantages for villains. Villains have vices, which heroes can (blindly) try to activate by spending drama points. A greedy villain might then try to ransom captive heroes instead of executing them, a megalomaniac would start ranting about his plans, and so on.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:07 am

I like character creation decisions that involve picking options off a menu rather than spending points. I also like character creation decisions that make an actual difference.

I like battles (and other major sub-systems) which are quick and streamlined, even at the cost of in-battle tactical flexibility, so long as the decisions I make at chargen and level up (or equivalent) still matter. In fact, I'd be okay with a game that's really just character creation/advancement and roleplay decisions (i.e. "okay, you beat the goblins, what do you want to do with them now?"). Crunchy battle mechanics are fun, but not what I'm looking for when I show up to a roleplaying game (as opposed to, for example, a war game). I've yet to see an engine that makes them go together well. Simple, fast mechanics are definitely better than trying and failing to make a deep and interesting tactical mini-game, so it'd be cool if more games went with the safe bet.

I like settings that are genuinely grey, in that they imply that the heroes have flaws and also that the villains have redeeming qualities. Particularly, I like it when the line between heroes and villains is so blurry that you can legitimately have character who want to be the good guys trying to figure out which faction to support. Both factions should have enough redeeming qualities that the players feel like the world is better for their having suceeded, as opposed to grimdark works where things are always getting worse, and the only question is how fast.

I like mechanics that encourage roleplay without saying "persuade the GM it's relevant for bonuses" or "be an attention whore to make yourself more awesome."

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:41 am

I like an in-game sense of flow, when the game is happening all on it's own in the background because we know all the rules so well, and then it's gotten late and we have to stop.

I like when a game doesn't disappoint me with its promises. Does what it says it does. Similarly when players can speak to their imagination, and have the rules support that innocuously (if only in an abstract way).

Despite what came of 4e, I also like the whole door, room, Orc, pie sort of fun. With the kicking ass and the taking names, or at least some treasure.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:09 am

Knot-cutting, crafting, and logistics.

Edit: that may be a bit too pithy.

Knot cutting refers to the Gordian Knot. It was a famous ancient puzzle/mess, which Alexander "solved" by cutting in half. So "there's a puzzle trap on the floor, and a lever on the far side to disable it" can be addressed by "summon a monkey on the lever." For this to work, a system and setting need to be moderately predictable. Not that they need to make sense, but they need to be relatively consistent. Normally, if a door had some super fortification, your next idea would be to check the walls, right? If the walls are rock, and rock walls are breachable, then you dig through. If rock walls aren't breachable, then maybe you start carrying around a section of wall to hide behind. Either way, the effects are predictable, and you can take advantage of them.

Crafting is broader than just blacksmithing. At it's core, it's the ability to not just manipulate existing game elements, but to create entirely new elements. Sure, making a sword does that, in a minor and degenerate way, but it's usually meaningless. In general, if you wouldn't be excited about finding something, crafting it is a waste of time. That doesn't just apply to personal equipment; ships, fortresses, zombie hordes, and superpopes are all cool things to build.

Logistics is a little funny. I don't actually want to care about food, or how much money weighs, but I do want to keep track of how many pints of oil and pitons I have, or who the seventeen tiny men in my castle are and what stats they have. It's probably somewhere between knot-cutting and fantasy shopping.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:11 pm

Char-gen that can be fast or can be deep.

An engaging tactical mini-game.

Knot-cutting in and out of combat.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:11 pm

To crush my enemies!
To see them driven before me!
To hear the lamentations of their women!

Combat. Pure and simple. All kinds of Combat. Even against magic/magical critters in a tin-can-troll . .

Also, the character creation was, for the longest time, about half the fun of shadowrun 3 for me . . i believe i burned out after i had made my 471st character . . kinda hard to do something that's really unique from about 300 characters upwards i think . .

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:52 pm

I have an absorbing interest in minor munchkindom associated with systemic abuse of exceptions to standard rules, and how that can be used to build alternative character concepts.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:11 pm

I like it when players come together to work on a project like kingdom or stronghold-building.

And really, I also really like the whole 'a bunch of weirdass races and professions come together to kick mega-butt' trope in general, goshdarnit. Those are always the coolest parts of the story, either the initial building of the team or the great alliance of nations.

I also like it when the forces of good are allowed to be as cool and stylish as the forces of evil. Some games are pretty good about that (D&D, Shadowrun) but most aren't (*cough* Exalted).

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:35 pm

Mostly, the ability to interact logically with the world and the ability to change it in minor and major ways in any way I can think off.

Ravengm · Post by **Ravengm** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:41 pm

Ancient History wrote:I have an absorbing interest in minor munchkindom associated with systemic abuse of exceptions to standard rules, and how that can be used to build alternative character concepts.

I'd have to agree with this. I'm quite fond of grapplemancers, hulking hurlers, and the Trouserfang Dwarf.

Dominicius · Post by **Dominicius** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:22 pm

I like UNLIMITED POOOOOWWWEEEEEERRRRRR.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:51 pm

Ravengm wrote:
Ancient History wrote:I have an absorbing interest in minor munchkindom associated with systemic abuse of exceptions to standard rules, and how that can be used to build alternative character concepts.
I'd have to agree with this. I'm quite fond of grapplemancers, hulking hurlers, and the Trouserfang Dwarf.

I remain very fond of the Gunsel Karcist.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:45 pm

The only thing i like about the SR4 rule system is the silly shit one can munchkin out of it . .
Ultimate Mundane Climber.
Mach 1 Runner.
Pixie-Puncher capable of one-shotting dragons.
Pornomancer.
Trartillery.
Brick.
Death Blossom.
Taskmaster.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:26 pm

Ancient History wrote:I have an absorbing interest in minor munchkindom associated with systemic abuse of exceptions to standard rules, and how that can be used to build alternative character concepts.

This. I pay attention to the maths and Edge rules mostly so I can do things like make a character with Spell Knack who is merely quite shitty as opposed to being completely and utterly hopeless.

npc310 · Post by **npc310** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:31 am

The Beast. Exploring the darkest parts of one's psyche. Playing it. Scaring myself a little.

Desdan_Mervolam · Post by **Desdan_Mervolam** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:01 am

Rules light systems that cover basic scenarios and then get the fuck out of the way rather than trapping you in their confines.

Batshit settings that allow you to play a wide variety of strange things.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:42 am

What do I love? Boobs. Next question.

Oh all right: and character creation that is engaging and involved enough to be fun in its own right, and that acts as an entry barrier against people who are stoned (if they're going to make a character while stoned, they're going to play while stoned, and nobody wants that).

And fights that are over in like 1-3 rounds (in turn translating to less than half an hour except for when someone is doing something stupid and elaborate like the 3x3 Phalanx of high AC or whatever), thus never needing a fancy system to prevent ability-spamming from ever actually being a problem where the game becomes boring.

Written-in ways for the PCs to affect the setting, so that the assumption is there right from the start. And with that, very little in the way of special NPCs that are powerful and awesome and why do we even need the PCs?

Yeah, fiddling with the numbers and abilities to see what cute tricks can be pulled off - Grapplemancers, DC 60 Escape Artist checks and the like.

But mainly, see point 1.

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:07 pm

Simple, I like anything that has to do with the Planescape setting, outsiders, elementals, and summoning.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:48 pm

Oh all right: and character creation that is engaging and involved enough to be fun in its own right, and that acts as an entry barrier against people who are stoned (if they're going to make a character while stoned, they're going to play while stoned, and nobody wants that).

I love designing characters, playing RPGs, and even GMing while stoned.

More serious answer: I generally like most RPGs okay. I have WAY less hate than 99% percent of the Den.

My deepest and most profound love is Shadowrun. I love (and actively play) every edition of Shadowrun ever made in spite of (in some cases because of) their easily recognizable design flaws.

Generally speaking, I am way less offended/incensed/enraged by bad imperfect game design than most of the Den. I just chill here because as a game designer, this place is fucking EDUCATIONAL. It's really good to be able to read up on what people hate, and the Den is pretty much a never ending spleen-venting of all the bilious humors that build up in the gaming subculture.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:05 am

I really love that Dark Sun was illustrated mostly by Brom. That's the image of the setting in my mind. I like things like that, a single artist really defining a setting.