The Stalker [D&D 3.5 Base Class]

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Zaranthan
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The Stalker [D&D 3.5 Base Class]

Post by Zaranthan »

Backstory and House Rules
So, I've been playing way more Path of Exile than is healthy lately, and had an idea to port a few of the skills into D&D. The idea quickly got out of control, and I wound up making a whole class with the schtick of "stabs fools in the face" and "has a dozen mobility and defense abilities to stab things higher than level 4." My local group is a little too grognardy for Tome, so this is meant to run with vanilla Sorcerors and Paladins.

We do have a few house rules that I've been playing with so long I forgot they were house rules.

1. Delayed effects from the same source don't stack. If a monster poisons you twice on the same turn, you only make one Fort save and only take damage once if you fail. This applies to the "Puncture" and "Viper Strike" abilities below, so you can't just attack somebody eight times and deal $TEXAS damage next turn.
The Stalker
A flicker of movement, a knife from the dark. By the time you've seen him, it's already too late.

A Stalker relies on his agility and cunning to wreak death upon his opponents. Heavy armor impedes his abilities, so he relies on his Energy Shield to keep him safe from harm.

Playing a Stalker: the Stalker benefits from a high Dexterity for combat, moderate amounts of Intelligence and Constitution are useful for staying alive and afflicting enemies with status effects.

Alignment: Stalkers are skilled at stealth and assassination, which attracts many of evil intent. Their abilities, however, do not draw upon any sources of true corruption, and thus do not enforce any alignment restrictions on their practitioners.

Hit Die: d4
Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skills/Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier
BAB: As Rogue
Saves: Good Reflex, Poor Fort & Will
Proficiencies: Light Armour, Bucklers, Light Shields; Simple weapons, Light Martial weapons, Net, Hand Crossbow
Starting Age & Money: As Rogue

Class Features:
  • 1. Energy Shield, Trapfinding
    2. Double Strike
    3. Reave (cleave)
    4. Smoke Mine (obscuring mist and expeditious retreat)
    5. Puncture
    6. Phase Run
    7. Viper Strike (apply toxin)
    8. Smoke Mine (blur)
    9. Hide in Plain Sight, Reave (great cleave)
    10. Terror
    11. Viper Strike (paralysis)
    12. Smoke Mine (freedom of movement)
    13. Flicker Strike
    14. Shadow Walk
    15. Viper Strike (secondary damage)
    16. Smoke Mine (spell turning or repulsion)
    17.
    18. Frenzy
    19.
    20. Scion
Energy Shield (Su): Stalkers are fragile of flesh, but the darkness keeps them whole. A Stalker has a pool of temporary hit points equal to his Class Level times his Intelligence Bonus. These hit points have infinite duration, and can be refreshed at any time by spending a Full Round Action.

Trapfinding (Ex): As rogue.

Double Strike (Ex): Stalkers are extensively trained to use small, agile weaponry together. At level 2, when wielding a light weapon in each hand, he may strike with both weapons as a single attack. Only a single attack roll is made, but if it hits, roll and add up damage from both hands together as a single hit. The Stalker may use his Dexterity modifier in place of his Strength modifier for these attacks, and is treated as though he has the Weapon Finesse feat for any prerequisites.

Reave (Ex): A Stalker is trained both in annihilating powerful single targets and carving through crowds of guards. At level 3, he is treated as having the Cleave feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At level 9, he is treated as having the Great Cleave feat.

Smoke Mine (Su): The Stalker activates a small arcane device he created for his own protection. As a swift action costing 2 ES, he casts a number of spells at once on himself, with a caster level equal to his character level. At level 4, this applies the effects of obscuring mist and expeditious retreat. At level 8, this also applies blur. At level 12, this also applies freedom of movement. At level 16, this also applies either spell turning or repulsion. You cannot activate both spell turning and repulsion with the same action, though they may have concurrent durations.

Puncture (Ex): A Stalker is particularly skilled at landing blows that leave their opponents crippled. At level 5, upon hitting with a light melee weapon, they may cause the opponent to bleed for the same amount of damage on their next turn. If the target moves before the end of their next turn, they suffer this damage a third time. Activating this ability costs a temporary hit point from the Stalker’s Energy Shield ability. If he has no points left from ES, he may spend a real hit point in its place, but not temporary hp from another source.
Pretend every ability has the underlined boilerplate. "X ES" means "...this ability costs X temporary hit points..." and fill in the rest as well.
Phase Run (Su): At level 6, the Stalker can phase part of his body into the Plane of Shadow, freeing him from the bonds of gravity. He gains a fly speed equal to his land speed with average maneuverability.

Viper Strike (Ex): A Stalker is adept with a variety of poisons. When he strikes an opponent with a light weapon, he may expend 6 points from his Energy Shield to apply one of the following effects:
  • Toxin: At level 7, the attack may inflict a poison the Stalker has a dose of on his person (applying the poison to the weapon is considered part of the attack action)
    At level 11, the attack may instead inflict paralysis for one round, Fort Save DC 10 + ½ Class Level + Int Mod negates
    At level 15, the attack may instead deal an additional 1d6 per level poison damage on the following round
Viper Strike cannot be triggered by the same attack as Puncture.
(Designer's note: Kaelik thinks this is OP as shit. How should it be toned down? Allow a fort save for the damage effect? Halve the damage? Eat a swift action to activate for a single attack that turn?)

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At level 9, a Stalker can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a Stalker can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

Terror (Su): At level 10, the Stalker may produce an effect similar to the fear spell, Except in a 5’ burst instead of 30’ cone. Save DC 10 + ½ Class Level + Int mod. Costs 12 ES.

Flicker Strike (Su): At level 13, the Stalker may teleport as a move action, though transporting only himself and his equipment within Close range (25 feet, +5 feet per two levels). Costs 8 ES. Can make Full Attack as Standard Action in same round, additional 2 ES per attack.

Shadow Walk (Su): At level 14, the Stalker can use shadow walk at will, as the spell, alone or with companions, caster level equal to character level.

Frenzy (Su): At level 18, the Stalker can use the altered nature of the Plane of Shadow to act faster than light. By expending 20 ES, he can take 1d4+1 turns' worth of actions in a single turn, similar to a time stop effect. Lingering effects like Puncture and Viper Strike can be set up and will take effect when time resumes, though the initial hits will deal no damage.

Scion (Ex): At level 20, the Stalker inherits the power of Wraeclast, thus winning D&D. Also, he can restore his Energy Shield as a swift action.


EDIT: 20/03/2014: Added clarifications to a number of abilities,
Last edited by Zaranthan on Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

1) So many abilities out of order. Level 9 Ability before level 5. Level 13 before level 10 ect. Level 6 Ability is second last ability. Level 4 comes after the level 5 that is after the level 9. Makes no sense. Fix that shit.

2) Smoke Mine doesn't actually do anying at all because you forgot to write like 90% of it.

3) You are so wedded to this shield as casting thing that you are fucking around with accounting for no reason. Some of those things should just not have a cost.

4) Time Stop is broken. First off, Viper Strike and Puncture don't work that way. Or Time Stop doesn't. I don't know what your confusion is. But if you did have a modified Time Stop that let you use them, it would be literally the most OP thing ever. Because you would Time Stop, then walk over and Full attack Puncture Viper Strike, then Time Stop, then full attack Puncture Viper Strike, until eventually your recursive and/or readied action Time stops resulted in NI damage (because you can get like 100 ES in a full round action once instead of full attacking, so you can do this as much as you want). That is dumb as shit. Nevermind that Time Stop at will is too powerful for Wizards to get at level 17, WTF are you doing giving Time Stop at Will to someone who also has delayed blast fireball at will?

5) Flicker Strike...... JUST DON'T CALL IT DIMENSION DOOR YOU RETARD. For fucks sake, Dimension Door has an explicit clause that you cannot attack afterward. Just call it a fucking teleport with a range of X. Why the fuck do idiots keep using Dimension Door for their model teleport attack ability?

6) Why use Double Strike at all ever? Not like why you it as a member of this class, but what goddawful reason possessed you to write an ability that is worse thatn TWFing at most levels, slightly better at early levels, and could be easily fucking replaced with TWFing, and is actually never going to be used again after level 7 when TWFing Viper Strike does nearly twice as much damage as Double Strike Viper Strike?

Also, Viper Strike is too powerful with Toxin and/or useless, and before level 7 this class is a pile of ass flavored ass that does nothing in combat.

I mean, Tome Barbarians get 1d6 per two levels to everything, Rogues get 1d6 per two levels and have to deny dex, Assassins have to spend a full round action studying in order to get 3d6 at level 1+1d6 per level afterword. Knights get 1d6 per level and all the enemy has to d to avoid it is to attack them.

This character has less counterplay than the Knight and Rogue and Assassin, and more power than the Barbarian and Rogue and Assassin with Viper Strike. Don't do that, it is dumb. Replace the poison damage with some status effect and make this character a status effect inflicter but don't give them damage that is way more than anyone else gets for no actual work in combat, but also arbitrarily doesn't work against like 70% of enemies either, even though it is still literally the only thing they can do that isn't shit.
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Zaranthan
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Post by Zaranthan »

Kaelik wrote:1) So many abilities out of order. Level 9 Ability before level 5. Level 13 before level 10 ect. Level 6 Ability is second last ability. Level 4 comes after the level 5 that is after the level 9. Makes no sense. Fix that shit.

2) Smoke Mine doesn't actually do anying at all because you forgot to write like 90% of it.
Yeah, I let a friend talk me into posting it, and got hasty with the copy & pasting. No real excuse for that shit. I'll fix it tonight when I get home from work.
3) You are so wedded to this shield as casting thing that you are fucking around with accounting for no reason. Some of those things should just not have a cost.
I had a feeling the costs needed to either go up (and boost some of the abilities with it) or just throw out the mechanic entirely and just make shit at-will. There's probably a middle ground there somewhere.
4) Time Stop is broken. First off, Viper Strike and Puncture don't work that way. Or Time Stop doesn't. I don't know what your confusion is. But if you did have a modified Time Stop that let you use them, it would be literally the most OP thing ever. Because you would Time Stop, then walk over and Full attack Puncture Viper Strike, then Time Stop, then full attack Puncture Viper Strike, until eventually your recursive and/or readied action Time stops resulted in NI damage (because you can get like 100 ES in a full round action once instead of full attacking, so you can do this as much as you want). That is dumb as shit. Nevermind that Time Stop at will is too powerful for Wizards to get at level 17, WTF are you doing giving Time Stop at Will to someone who also has delayed blast fireball at will?
I was under the impression that casting time stop in a time stop just wasted an action, not gave you more time. I'll add a line item for that.

Also, forgot that my group's "delayed damage doesn't stack" rule is a houserule. What's SUPPOSED to happen is if you puncture/viper somebody twice in one round, it just deals the greater of the two damages. I'll add that as well.
5) Flicker Strike...... JUST DON'T CALL IT DIMENSION DOOR YOU RETARD. For fucks sake, Dimension Door has an explicit clause that you cannot attack afterward. Just call it a fucking teleport with a range of X. Why the fuck do idiots keep using Dimension Door for their model teleport attack ability?
Same as time stop, didn't see that clause, either. Teleport it is.

As for why everybody else does it, it's the "short range teleport" spell. I know my DM likes it because in the bad old days it made an actual door and apparently people could follow you through it or something.
6) Why use Double Strike at all ever? Not like why you it as a member of this class, but what goddawful reason possessed you to write an ability that is worse thatn TWFing at most levels, slightly better at early levels, and could be easily fucking replaced with TWFing, and is actually never going to be used again after level 7 when TWFing Viper Strike does nearly twice as much damage as Double Strike Viper Strike?
Resource accounting with Flicker Strike, using the off-hand with AoOs and other "single attack" functions.
Also, Viper Strike is too powerful with Toxin and/or useless, and before level 7 this class is a pile of ass flavored ass that does nothing in combat.

I mean, Tome Barbarians get 1d6 per two levels to everything, Rogues get 1d6 per two levels and have to deny dex, Assassins have to spend a full round action studying in order to get 3d6 at level 1+1d6 per level afterword. Knights get 1d6 per level and all the enemy has to d to avoid it is to attack them.
Fair enough. How would you cut it down? 1d6 per 2 levels, like the barbarian? Add a fort save? Make it eat a swift action?
This character has less counterplay than the Knight and Rogue and Assassin, and more power than the Barbarian and Rogue and Assassin with Viper Strike. Don't do that, it is dumb. Replace the poison damage with some status effect and make this character a status effect inflicter but don't give them damage that is way more than anyone else gets for no actual work in combat, but also arbitrarily doesn't work against like 70% of enemies either, even though it is still literally the only thing they can do that isn't shit.
Well, the counterplay would be to punch him in his stupid face so he has to either blow his action on shielding or burn real hit points, putting it in an action-denial role. Status effects instead of piles of damage are a good idea, I just don't know where to go with it.
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Post by Zaranthan »

Update: Clarified several abilities and straightened out the clusterfuck of copypasta that was the feature list.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Zaranthan wrote:I had a feeling the costs needed to either go up (and boost some of the abilities with it) or just throw out the mechanic entirely and just make shit at-will. There's probably a middle ground there somewhere.
Your entire resource mechanic as written is shitty shit, and increasing the costs and the benefits of the abilities would not help. However, I have a solution that I think doesn't suck shit.

See, the full round action shield means that basically, you can never refresh during combat, so you use your abilities until combat is over, and if they punch through your shield, then you use health, because there is no point in which auto attacking or running away without using abilities is ever worthwhile in D&D. So your resource mechanic... wasn't a resource mechanic. It was a slight HP penalty that was basically never going to change their decision making. Likewise no counterplay exists because if you do damage, they still use the same abilities, because there is no option to just not use abilities in D&D.

So here is the solution: You give them HP and Shield with some maximum. You completely remove the ability to use health to fuel abilities. Then you allow them to replenish the pool a very small amount as a swift action. Now each round they can use abilities no matter what, but not getting punched in the face allows them to actually use more abilities.
I was under the impression that casting time stop in a time stop just wasted an action, not gave you more time. I'll add a line item for that.
It doesn't matter how that work, because they still have infinite time stop either way. Because all you do is spend your last round readying an action to cast Time Stop as soon as Time Stop ends, and then fuck you, Time Stop starts again before anyone else gets to act.
Also, forgot that my group's "delayed damage doesn't stack" rule is a houserule. What's SUPPOSED to happen is if you puncture/viper somebody twice in one round, it just deals the greater of the two damages. I'll add that as well.
This is still a bad idea, because it encourages them to infinite Time Stop until they have rolled infinity times to get all 6s. You should just not give them infinite Time Stop, although, funny story, I think my early resource management system (including taking away the complete refresh in one round) suddenly might completely remove the infinite Time Stop. But you have to set the cost such that it legitimately actually costs more to activate than you get back. Or you could just say they can't regain points in a Time Stop.
As for why everybody else does it, it's the "short range teleport" spell. I know my DM likes it because in the bad old days it made an actual door and apparently people could follow you through it or something.
Yes, it is the short range teleport spell. But you know what else is a the short range teleport? Any fucking teleport spell with a short range.
Resource accounting with Flicker Strike, using the off-hand with AoOs and other "single attack" functions.
As I said, not why would you use it as a character, why would you write it as an ability? There is no reason. It gives nothing better than TWFing. Not even AoO, read Tome TWFing, and it does not synergize with his other abilities.
Fair enough. How would you cut it down? 1d6 per 2 levels, like the barbarian? Add a fort save? Make it eat a swift action?
None of those. I think that you should try to create a class that people will want to play in the same game as a Rogue. As is, this is either a better Rogue, or a worse Rogue depending on how you balance it. You need some concept that makes it different from but not better than or worse than a Rogue. As said, I recommend not basing it on d6s of damage.
Well, the counterplay would be to punch him in his stupid face so he has to either blow his action on shielding or burn real hit points, putting it in an action-denial role. Status effects instead of piles of damage are a good idea, I just don't know where to go with it.
As discussed in the resource section, punching in the face just reduces his HP, it doesn't actually change his actions. Because if he ever spends a full round action in combat regaining the shield he is a fucking fucked idiot.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
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Zaranthan
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Post by Zaranthan »

Kaelik wrote:So here is the solution: You give them HP and Shield with some maximum. You completely remove the ability to use health to fuel abilities. Then you allow them to replenish the pool a very small amount as a swift action. Now each round they can use abilities no matter what, but not getting punched in the face allows them to actually use more abilities.
That sounds workable. A swift action means a full restore isn't justified, and using the buffs means you're not charging shield this turn.
It doesn't matter how that work, because they still have infinite time stop either way. Because all you do is spend your last round readying an action to cast Time Stop as soon as Time Stop ends, and then fuck you, Time Stop starts again before anyone else gets to act.
So you get to tag everybody with puncture and viper, and maximize the damage, and then you have to let everybody else take their turns so the damage actually happens. Meh, I don't see the apocalypse at level 18, but whatever. Let's give it a 1 hour cooldown just to smooth some feathers.
Abilities are broken because infinite time stop is infinite
Fixed, but I think making time stop cost more than you can recharge in five rounds isn't a bad idea either way. Might be less bookkeeping than a time-based cooldown.
Yes, it is the short range teleport spell. But you know what else is a the short range teleport? Any fucking teleport spell with a short range.
Fixed.
As I said, not why would you use it as a character, why would you write it as an ability? There is no reason. It gives nothing better than TWFing.
Fewer rolls. No TWF penalty. Combines the Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade feats into a single block of text that I don't have to explain every time I hit something. Blatant power creep. I don't care if it's noticeably more powerful than a Rogue. You may recall I compared it to the Sorceror.
Not even AoO, read Tome TWFing,
If i could use Tome anything, I would. This isn't dumbing down my designs for hypothetical grognards who might not like it. This is phrasing it for actual grognards who are actually sitting at my actual table and actually balked at the Tome Barbarian.
and it does not synergize with his other abilities.
Flicker Strike is cheaper with three attacks than with six. Puncture deals the amount of damage you dealt with one hit, not two.
None of those. I think that you should try to create a class that people will want to play in the same game as a Rogue. As is, this is either a better Rogue, or a worse Rogue depending on how you balance it.
The cleric is better than the rogue. The psion is better than the rogue. The beguiler and factotum are better than the rogue. Three out of those four even get trapfinding, and yet people still play rogues. If it is just "a better Rogue", then good. Fuck rogues.
You need some concept that makes it different from but not better than or worse than a Rogue. As said, I recommend not basing it on d6s of damage.
I wouldn't mind this, but it's a significant overhaul to replace "stabbing people in the face" with "debuffing people in the face".
As discussed in the resource section, punching in the face just reduces his HP, it doesn't actually change his actions. Because if he ever spends a full round action in combat regaining the shield he is a fucking fucked idiot.
Well, we're already snipping the ability to burn real hp to use abilities, so let's just crunch some numbers on how much you SHOULD get for your swift actions when you're not spamming smoke mine and viper strike.
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Post by Kaelik »

Zaranthan wrote:So you get to tag everybody with puncture and viper, and maximize the damage, and then you have to let everybody else take their turns so the damage actually happens. Meh, I don't see the apocalypse at level 18, but whatever.
It is 648 damage or way more with Attack number optimization just from Viper Strike on the first round, and if the DM doesn't let you just declare your next NI actions then you will have to actually roll piles of D6s over and over and over.

You should avoid rules the incentavize rolling piles and piles of dice for hours with no one else getting a turn.
Zaranthan wrote:Fewer rolls. No TWF penalty. Combines the Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade feats into a single block of text that I don't have to explain every time I hit something.
Are you an idiot? Do you not get that this character might as well not exist if they aren't using Viper Strike? And Viper Strike does more damage on number of attacks. So every single fucking Stalker will use TWFing every single time after level 7, and will never use this ability again except on AoO.
Zaranthan wrote:Blatant power creep. I don't care if it's noticeably more powerful than a Rogue. You may recall I compared it to the Sorceror.
First off, this class is no where near a Sorcerer, but that being said, no one who knows how to build Rogues complains about them doing too little damage. If you do more damage than a Rogue without needing to meet conditions, you have a no save death effect.
Zaranthan wrote:If i could use Tome anything, I would. This isn't dumbing down my designs for hypothetical grognards who might not like it. This is phrasing it for actual grognards who are actually sitting at my actual table and actually balked at the Tome Barbarian.
You realize you could just write Tome TWFing into the class instead of this stupid ability that your class won't use past level 7 right?
Zaranthan wrote:Flicker Strike is cheaper with three attacks than with six. Puncture deals the amount of damage you dealt with one hit, not two.
Which doesn't matter, because 1d6+4 or 2d6+8 matters zero fucking percent, because you will not even be contributing as much as a fighter six levels lower than you if you do not use Viper Strike.

And Viper Strike is better on more attacks. So you will in fact use Viper Strike or you will be a worthless waste of space that no one cares about.
Zaranthan wrote:The cleric is better than the rogue. The psion is better than the rogue. The beguiler and factotum are better than the rogue. Three out of those four even get trapfinding, and yet people still play rogues. If it is just "a better Rogue", then good. Fuck rogues.
You are a fucking idiot. Lots of classes are better than the Rogue, but the Rogue can be played with them because he brings something to the table that contributes.

You know what isn't better than a Rogue though, a fucking Factotum. A Factotum is ass flavored ass, and all you said is that full casters are better than Rogues and one false statement.

If you want to make a class that does piles of d6s, it needs to do about the same as a Rogue, and not double that, because the Rogue already has nearly a no save death effect when he meets the conditions, so if you make a condition less no save even more death effect, that is a flaw.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Post by Zaranthan »

Kaelik wrote:I didn't read the part of your post where you're putting time stop on a one hour cooldown, so I'm going to keep ranting about it.
Kaelik wrote:I didn't read the part of your post where you said Viper Strike deals 15d6 damage at level 15, not at level 1.
Kaelik wrote:This class isn't as powerful as you think it is, but I'm still only going to talk about it at level 15 and up.
Kaelik wrote:I clearly read the part of your post where your table rejected Tome concepts out of hand, but I'm still going to tell you they're better because fuck you.
Kaelik wrote:I still think Viper Strike works at level 1.
Kaelik wrote:I also think Viper Strike stacks when you hit the same target more than once, because I'm still talking about the first draft of the class before I told you that's overpowered.
Kaelik wrote:Remember the part where I told you your class is worthless because it's just a better Rogue? Yeah, now it's worthless because some classes are worse than the Rogue.
I came here for constructive criticism, not for you to say the same thing over and over. You made comments, I made changes. Please respond to the changes, not the first draft.
Kaelik wrote:If you want to make a class that does piles of d6s, it needs to do about the same as a Rogue, and not double that, because the Rogue already has nearly a no save death effect when he meets the conditions, so if you make a condition less no save even more death effect, that is a flaw.
Okay, did you notice that the pile of d6s comes online at level 15? You've spent three posts yelling at me about how dealing a shit ton of damage is simultaneously overpowered and pointless when the other party members are turning people into sand and giving orders to Planetars.

Can I trouble you to comment on how the class works before D&D turns into a joke?
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Zaranthan wrote:I came here for constructive criticism, not for you to say the same thing over and over. You made comments, I made changes. Please respond to the changes, not the first draft.
If you aren't going to make even a half hearted attempt to understand what I am saying and instead just make up lies that are convenient why the fuck should I put in the effort to actually constructively criticize your class when you are just going to ignore what I said?

So first off how about you tell me the two of those that are the most obviously and offensively stupid lies about what I said, and then maybe I'll consider the possibility that you are even remotely capable of figuring out what I am talking about enough to have just lied about what I said to insult me instead of being too stupid to understand it.

Or I guess you could try actually reading what I said in order to find out the constructive criticism I am about to post for the second time.
Zaranthan wrote:Okay, did you notice that the pile of d6s comes online at level 15?
Do you mean that you used to grant timestop at 15 and that was stupid because it forced people to roll literally piles of fucking dice several times for marginal gains?

Or do you mean the new thing that is even dumber and addressed below, that you only added in an edit to the original post without mentioning at all?
Zaranthan wrote:You've spent three posts yelling at me about how dealing a shit ton of damage is simultaneously overpowered and pointless when the other party members are turning people into sand and giving orders to Planetars.
No, I didn't. I spent small parts of those posts explaining that literally rolling NId6 so that you get all sixes is dumb as shit.

I also, completely separately, explained to you how damage as a character concept works in D&D. A lesson, if you were capable of reading and comprehending it, would apply to all levels.

If a character does too much HP damage too easily, that is overpowered, because people actually don't have very good resistances to HP damage. If someone does too little, then they are completely useless. So at level 5, when a Rogue does up to 15d6 damage, that is maybe a little too powerful, but pretty balanced because of the way that it has to meet conditions which are kind of hard to meet at that level, and the rogue doesn't yet have access to bypassing all the immunities yet.

On the other hand, if your character does 2d6+8 damage, with an additional 2d6+8 damage the next turn... then your character is a piece of shit and needs to go back and take levels in Warrior to suck less.
Zaranthan wrote:Can I trouble you to comment on how the class works before D&D turns into a joke?
I don't know, can you trouble yourself to be able to figure out which parts of my posts address levels before level 15?

Like the part where I explained that you class is ass flavored ass when not using the ability that it gets at level 7, and then you kicked that ability back to level 15 thus guaranteeing that your class is ass flavored ass at every level that D&D is not a joke?

Look. You think that 2d6+8 damage repeated is a meaningful combat contribution past level 2. That is a childlike innocence of D&D. So your options are: Leave this forum forever, and never post this class or any other class on the internet where people can see it, and maintain your childish innocence, or try to actually play in a game with a Chargarian, a Flask Rogue, and burst Wizard/Sorcerer, and actually write down how much damage each character does. Then at then end of a 7 level campaign, total it up, and see how man hundreds of times your damage they did.

And finally, delete your designers note, or modify it to remove my name, or modify it to say what I actually said, which is that it is either OP or useless depending on your opposition, and I said that about the level fucking seven version.

And while we are on the list of your faults in reading comprehension:
Zaranthan wrote:
Kaelik wrote:I also think Viper Strike stacks when you hit the same target more than once, because I'm still talking about the first draft of the class before I told you that's overpowered.
It still works when you kit same target more than once you idiot. You didn't change that at all. Your houserules do not apply to the class unless you write them into the goddam class. The place for someone to find out how Viper Strike works is in the Viper Strike fucking entry of the class, not the last paragraph of a spoiler block that is labeled "Background and House Rules" and starts with talking about a fucking video game that you like to play.

But if, for a moment, we assume that you actually do add your stupid houserules to the class, then I would reiterate that I told you less damage than a Rogue is shitty, and so doing like 1/4th the damage of a Rogue at best makes your class shit flavored shit at every level, and you should just give up on the pretense of designing a class.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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