Numenera - Monte Cook's new thing

Previn · Post by **Previn** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:53 am

Looks like this is what Monte Cook has been working on:

http://www.numenera.com

ModelCitizen · Post by **ModelCitizen** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:01 am

XP can be spent to increase character abilities, or to affect events in the game (such as rerolling dice), gain short-term benefits or advance in levels.

There needs to be a list of common unforgivable mistakes in RPG design. Having Force Points convert into XP at the end of the session would be like #3.

Also:

To avoid a lot of cumbersome math at the game table, there aren’t a lot of modifiers to this roll. Instead, skills and other assets reduce the difficulty of a task.

Now, this may not have been written by Monte Cook or anyone else involved in designing Numenera, so the fact that whoever wrote this didn't learn anything in 6th grade pre-algebra may not be a strike against the project. But still:

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:11 am

So...another project for Monte to briefly mess around with, like Monte Cook's World of Darkness, his writing career, Dungeon-A-Day, and D&D Next?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:17 am

Pretty much. Although this one has nice art (at least, on the webpage), so maybe he learned "Good pictures equals money" from Paizo.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:47 am

HA.

I looked at the Kickstarter.

At $60,000, I will expand the main rulebook. I had been thinking about 300 pages, but we'll make it 400 pages. This means considerably more setting material, creatures, NPCs, and, of course, more gorgeous art.

At $70,000, I will personally write a 32-page adventure for Numenera. This will be released as a PDF and print-on-demand book, softcover, with art and maps--the whole shebang. I'll add the pdf in for free to anyone who gets THE REAL DEAL and the print adventure at all levels $180 and above.

Ten thousand dollars... to write a 32 page adventure. Assuming that this thing takes 5 days (8 hour workday) to make, that would let you pay 5 people 50 dollars an hour each.

Could someone give me an average wordcount for a Pathfinder adventure?

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:04 am

Whoa, Koumei, I think you might be right in regards to following the Marketing schemes of Paizo with the pretty pictures!

Numera Character Creation wrote: Third you choose a focus, which really distinguishes your character. These can vary from crafting Illusions to becoming a master of a single weapon, from wielding magnetism to being a great leader.

Seriously?? SERIOUSLY?! god, it's like nobody is learning anything when it comes to the world of RPG design...(sighs)

Sounds like he really just wants to join Paizo, I wonder what the fanbase would think of that...

infected slut princess · Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:57 am

Wow, check out the "playtest reports" which are basically just cheesy fantasy fiction with virtually NO discussion of mechanics AT ALL. The deepest level of analysis it gets into is this:

Note: These playtest sessions are very short. Combat and task resolution is very fast. The GM’s descriptions and the PC discussions and deliberations were very long. All of the above action took place in a bit less than two hours of actual game time. The rest of the session was rules discussion (and jokes and silliness–it’s a game session, after all).

Which would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing. Too bad Monte Cook is using his time and money on this, because it seems KINDA lame. Meanwhile most jerks at TGD either make nothing or make random stuff that is sometimes pretty cool for free.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:10 am

infected slut princess wrote:Meanwhile most jerks at TGD either make nothing or make random stuff that is sometimes pretty cool for free.

I would have difficulty respecting myself if RPG design was something I did to make money. I want to do something more meaningful with my life, rpgs are just a hobby.

From a slightly different angle, I am predisposed to distrust the tabletop RPG work of someone whose day job is "rpg designer". That means they couldn't get a real job.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:34 am

Avoraciopoctules wrote:That means they couldn't get a real job.

Alternatively, they decided to make that their real job, and are looking at it like a real job, and just want your money, having no interest in playing the game themselves.

infected slut princess · Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:42 am

Avoraciopoctules -- everyone with a job needs a "side hustle".

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:01 pm

Aryxbez wrote:Whoa, Koumei, I think you might be right in regards to following the Marketing schemes of Paizo with the pretty pictures!

Numera Character Creation wrote: Third you choose a focus, which really distinguishes your character. These can vary from crafting Illusions to becoming a master of a single weapon, from wielding magnetism to being a great leader.
Seriously?? SERIOUSLY?! god, it's like nobody is learning anything when it comes to the world of RPG design...(sighs)

Yes, seriously. People actually and consistently want to play that guy. Just dropping it is much like not having humans- it is an unnecessary risk, especially for a game like this which is playing in the fairly tired (and often unsuccessful) lands of vaguely post-apocalypse with leftover science and 'magic' simultaneously.

You could really react the same way to the illusion thing, as in most fantasy settings they are completely redundant to other magic that can just summon things and actually kill people.

JigokuBosatsu · Post by **JigokuBosatsu** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:36 pm

Oddly enough, yesterday I discovered that Monte Cook and I had like 150 mutual friends on Facebook. So... yeah, I added him. For the lulz. He does not look like I pictured him.

Previn · Post by **Previn** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:37 pm

Voss wrote:
Aryxbez wrote:Whoa, Koumei, I think you might be right in regards to following the Marketing schemes of Paizo with the pretty pictures!

Numera Character Creation wrote: Third you choose a focus, which really distinguishes your character. These can vary from crafting Illusions to becoming a master of a single weapon, from wielding magnetism to being a great leader.
Seriously?? SERIOUSLY?! god, it's like nobody is learning anything when it comes to the world of RPG design...(sighs)
Yes, seriously. People actually and consistently want to play that guy. Just dropping it is much like not having humans- it is an unnecessary risk, especially for a game like this which is playing in the fairly tired (and often unsuccessful) lands of vaguely post-apocalypse with leftover science and 'magic' simultaneously.

There's also nothing wrong with being the master of a single weapon if you get appropriate abilities for doing so. If your highest ability a master of the long sword is 'attack everyone around me once' it's a problem. If your highest ability is 'cut a hole in reality with my sword' it's probably much less of a problem. Given the magic/tech a billion years from now angle, it's possible to have cutting holes in reality not tread too much on one's immersion.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:29 am

Well, the Tome Samurai is a master of a single weapon

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:14 am

OgreBattle wrote:Well, the Tome Samurai is a master of a single weapon

I wrote a Tome Master of Chains. *shrug*

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:57 am

The art is nice and the setting is relevant to my interests. Everything else, well I don't know what to think.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:33 am

They also earn XP when the GM “intrudes” on the action of the game to introduce new complications. Lastly, players have the ability to award XP to other players for great ideas, useful actions, or other reasons.

So... they're Fate points, except with a communal rewarding system, and the ability of the players to say "We want new 1337 powers and higher numbers, so we're giving you all of our fate points. Good luck challenging us with the adventure you spent all week working on."

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:03 pm

I see a couple of interesting things here. Not with the game, but with how it's packaged.

First, the character creator:

The Character Creator App: Designed and developed by 3 lb Games, this will be available for iOS and Android phones and tablets. It will guide anyone through character creation in minutes. My plan is that there will be upgrades that turn it into a way to reference all the rules during play as well, and maybe even some GM adventure creation and game management tools.

That's... pretty much exactly what Denners keep saying every new system should have as eTools. It's also vague, which is bad, but cheap like free ($3), which is good.

It looks like there's a separate, smaller book with all the rules you need to play ("Player's Handbook"), and larger book with all the rules, setting, and setting design rules ("Core Book"). That is great.

Also, one note: he's not getting $10k cash to write an adventure (or whatever) he's selling 10k worth of stuff to write an adventure. I don't know what his margins look like, but I estimate (via WAGing) that it drops down to $2-3k.

Zaranthan · Post by **Zaranthan** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:12 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:So... they're Fate points, except with a communal rewarding system, and the ability of the players to say "We want new 1337 powers and higher numbers, so we're giving you all of our fate points. Good luck challenging us with the adventure you spent all week working on."

So it's Shadowrun's Karma pool? That seemed to work pretty well.

PoliteNewb · Post by **PoliteNewb** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:56 pm

(sblocked tangent, for Avoraciopoctules)

Avoraciopoctules wrote:
infected slut princess wrote:Meanwhile most jerks at TGD either make nothing or make random stuff that is sometimes pretty cool for free.
I would have difficulty respecting myself if RPG design was something I did to make money. I want to do something more meaningful with my life, rpgs are just a hobby.

From a slightly different angle, I am predisposed to distrust the tabletop RPG work of someone whose day job is "rpg designer". That means they couldn't get a real job.

Minor derail, but...what?

Look, it's great that you have "a real job" and "do something meaningful with your life", but seriously, get over yourself. Most people in the world don't get to do something "meaningful" in order to feed themselves. They work a job that they quite often hate, because that's how life works. I work for the government helping insure that deadbeats pay their child support, but I still don't consider my work particularly "meaningful", and I didn't take this job for high-minded reasons...I took it because it was a good paycheck and I'd been unemployed for 6 months. Most days, it is not particularly enjoyable or fulfilling.

If some guy is able to pay the bills by doing something meaningless that he enjoys (like game design, or shooting pool, or making porn films), I respect the hell out of that.

Your job is not necessarily "what you do with your life". It is what you do to pay for the necessities and luxuries of life. My "life", such as it is (and as I define it), completely excludes almost everything I do for 40 hours a week in the office.

/derail

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:59 pm

PoliteNewb wrote:

Avoraciopoctules wrote:
infected slut princess wrote:Meanwhile most jerks at TGD either make nothing or make random stuff that is sometimes pretty cool for free.
I would have difficulty respecting myself if RPG design was something I did to make money. I want to do something more meaningful with my life, rpgs are just a hobby.

From a slightly different angle, I am predisposed to distrust the tabletop RPG work of someone whose day job is "rpg designer". That means they couldn't get a real job.

Minor derail, but...what?

Look, it's great that you have "a real job" and "do something meaningful with your life", but seriously, get over yourself. Most people in the world don't get to do something "meaningful" in order to feed themselves. They work a job that they quite often hate, because that's how life works. I work for the government helping insure that deadbeats pay their child support, but I still don't consider my work particularly "meaningful", and I didn't take this job for high-minded reasons...I took it because it was a good paycheck and I'd been unemployed for 6 months. Most days, it is not particularly enjoyable or fulfilling.

If some guy is able to pay the bills by doing something meaningless that he enjoys (like game design, or shooting pool, or making porn films), I respect the hell out of that.

Your job is not necessarily "what you do with your life". It is what you do to pay for the necessities and luxuries of life. My "life", such as it is (and as I define it), completely excludes almost everything I do for 40 hours a week in the office.

/derail

sblocked for tangent.

You may have a point here. I did kind of make a sweeping generalization just now. I can totally respect people doing something just to make a living even if it isn't something they feel passionately about. And dedicated game designers have certainly produced worthwhile stuff in the past. I still would have difficulty respecting myself if I was doing RPG design as my primary source of income. It may be fun, but I don't think my work would be anywhere near as worthwhile as the stuff I spent years of college time learning to do. I can take pride in my research project for the East Bay Regional Park District. I doubt I'll produce anything as worthwhile in my tabletop game design work even if I do it full-time.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:09 pm

Taking pride in things is basically a learned skill anyway. I've met more miserable medical professionals than you can shake a stick at and oftentimes it's because they expected to feel tons of warm fuzzies handed to them on a platter and instead got a bunch of people puking on their shoes and this sinking feeling that maybe they didn't care about other people as much as they thought they did. It's sort of funny, but the genuinely happy high status professionals I've met seem to be the sort that are quite happy to tell you embarrassing things about themselves and are pretty much emotionally bullet proof in general.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:09 am

From my questions to Monte Cook, he wants to make a point about Numenera being as distanced from DnD as possible. Just that point is a net win in my book.

While I'll be keeping some healthy scepticism, I want to believe in this one. Also, I'm a fan of Anarchy Online, and the setting has some similarities so that's a big plus for me.

ScottS · Post by **ScottS** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:58 am

I am waiting until the end of his fucking "A-Positive" month before I start picking it apart.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:47 am

It looks basically like Journey from an aesthetic standpoint.

I can totally see where he's coming from on the limited choices off a short series of lists thing. That is the way to do it if you want chargen to be fast and you don't want characters to all look same.

-Username17