[OSSR]Factol's Manifesto

[Prak]

I play the kind of evil that creates undead, makes deals with friends, traps and destroys souls, wants to kill gods, and would seek to consume eldritch horrors to gain personal power, but also works for the interests of the party (because it's in their own interest) and if faced with a stereotypical "kill this baby or I destroy the world!" dilemma, would stab the person giving the ultimatum and find someone who can take care of a baby.

[Kaelik]

I think it's unsurprising that very few people's villain fantasies involve that kind of petty evil. If you're inclined to be a Biff Tannen or a Dolores Umbridge, you can just do it, you don't need an elaborate fantasy game.

I'm not just talking about pettiness, but direct personal cruelty. People might be fine signing off a deal with Cheliax, but give them a whip and suddenly "eww I don't want the kind of evil that whips slaves".

I mean there's a lot of difference between direct personal cruelty to say, the specific BBEG or King or whatever. Versus to a small child completely unrelated to the plot.

It's really not clear that this in any meaningful way proves they aren't willing to be evil because they don't torture unrelated people, it's actually still super evil even if you "just" do torture to big shot enemy lieutenants or organization bosses who have the information you want, because those are the people relevant to your at level quests.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I mean there's a lot of difference between direct personal cruelty to say, the specific BBEG or King or whatever. Versus to a small child completely unrelated to the plot.

It's really not clear that this in any meaningful way proves they aren't willing to be evil because they don't torture unrelated people, it's actually still super evil even if you "just" do torture to big shot enemy lieutenants or organization bosses who have the information you want, because those are the people relevant to your at level quests.

Well, one is something people can argue at about the table and the other is pretty much 100% indefensible (Disclaimer: I think torturing bad people is wrong). 24 ran for over 200 episodes and that show was just Keifer Sutherland snapping kneecaps for patriotism. While I'm sure there's a show out there where our protagonists do horrible things to small children for no reason and it's painted in a good or neutral light, I doubt it's something I could easily find and I don't think I want to try.
You're right though, my character should start torturing dudes more. Just gotta pick up Telekinesis...

[Kaelik]

I mean there's a lot of difference between direct personal cruelty to say, the specific BBEG or King or whatever. Versus to a small child completely unrelated to the plot.

It's really not clear that this in any meaningful way proves they aren't willing to be evil because they don't torture unrelated people, it's actually still super evil even if you "just" do torture to big shot enemy lieutenants or organization bosses who have the information you want, because those are the people relevant to your at level quests.

Well, one is something people can argue at about the table and the other is pretty much 100% indefensible (Disclaimer: I think torturing bad people is wrong). 24 ran for over 200 episodes and that show was just Keifer Sutherland snapping kneecaps for patriotism. While I'm sure there's a show out there where our protagonists do horrible things to small children for no reason and it's painted in a good or neutral light, I doubt it's something I could easily find and I don't think I want to try.
You're right though, my character should start torturing dudes more. Just gotta pick up Telekinesis...

Yes, my point is that "not being willing to directly torture powerless people who have nothing to offer our characters" or "not doing harm for the sheer sadistic joy of the pain inflicted on people who don't matter" doesn't always show that people aren't willing to do evil. Sometimes it shows they aren't willing to waste their time on small stuff.

Comparatively, it's still SUPER EVIL to torture a king to get information on the treasury vault code or whatever, even if the King is a bad dude, and even if you don't specifically enjoy the act of causing pain and are using it purely as a pass through to get the money you want.