OSSR - The 2e Arms and Equipment Guide

[Shrapnel]

Hidey-ho, fellow Denzians and Blitzwingers!

Today is a special treat for all you boys and girls of the Capital Gaming Den: Today, I and DarthRabbitt are going to tear the 2e Arms and Equipment Guide a new as hole, and hopefully piss of shadzar.

The way it'll work is thus:

DarthRabbitt will review the mechanics and shit

Me, Shrapnel will things like the fact that there's stats for shit like ruffs. Oh, yeah, I'll also be reviewing the historical blurbs they have in the book.

And so, without further ado, I'll let DarthRabbitt take the forum floor.

[Darth Rabbitt]

We start out with an intro telling DMs that they need not fear being asked questions about weapons and armor that would only be asked by the players in Darths and Droids.

Then we get to Chapter 1: Armor.

This is mostly about kicking armor wearers in the dangly bits.

Padded and studded leather (AC 8 and AC 7 respectively) have blurbs about how they get all icky and disease-ridden (causing -2 on saves vs. disease, -1 to AC and making you look like a slob) after a little while and fall apart a while after that, and leather (also AC 8) comparatively "can be worn daily for many months without need for replacement." But it also "may need to be replaced weekly" in "severe combat situations." Lol fuck you rangers, bards and thieves.

Hide (AC 6) actually seems much better than any of these, as there are no rules boning a hide wearer other than it makes you lose street cred with civilized cultures (but makes you gain it with barbarians.) But the book gushes about how "It illustrates that humans trust their dexterity and intelligence to aid in avoiding wounds during combat. while less intelligent humanoids typically rely on reducing the chances of a vital strike with a thicker armor." Because fuck humanoids who aren't humans or elves.

Scale Mail (AC 6) has "the same problems of dirt, grime, lice and odor that studded leather and padded armor suffer." Brigandine doesn't and offers the same protection, so you wear that, or Hide, as all three offer AC 6.

Except Sea Elf Scale Mail, which is super special awesome because it's made by elves. Coin Armor sounds awesome, being scale mail made of coins, but it still has all the problems of Scale Mail that Sea Elf Scale Mail doesn't.

Chain Mail (AC 5) gives an optional rule for "prolonged shoulder fatigue" which again basically means "fuck armor wearers." Also, maintenance is needed or it sucks. Because REALISM.

Banded Mail (AC 4) again has rules for it falling apart after a while. And Splint Mail is Banded Mail that's worse in every way.

Bronze Plate Mail (AC 4) made out to be super sucky, and you never want to wear it. Also there is a part about armor dealers painting it silver and selling it as normal plate mail. Because 2e loved having merchants cheat players out of money.

Plate Mail (AC 3) is essentially half-plate in 3.x. It's one of the few to not have rules for falling apart or boning the player.

Field Plate (AC 2) is good (albeit taking a while to put on) unless your DM uses the optional rule about wearing poorly repaired or patchwork full plate, in which case wearing magic gauntlets (since they're from a different suit of plate) basically means your armor needs to make saves vs. Crushing Blows or fall apart.

Full Plate (AC 1) is like Field Plate that's better in every way, except it takes even longer to put on and is more expensive. Rules for donning armor hastily are presented, and are fairly similar to the 3.x ones.

There are then a bunch of Elven and Dwarven armors (and one Gnomish one) and they go over about how much more awesome than human armors they are. Also there's that Drow armor that falls apart in sunlight, because lol fuck players for wanting to use the stuff they pick up.

Shields offer facing and optional encumbrance rules to bone fighters more.

Optional rules make wearing Helms teh suck, but also not wearing them teh suck.

And that's the chapter.

God, I need a stiff drink.

[Shrapnel]

I'm going to start by bandying about, flitting like a beautiful butterfly from one section to the next, because sequential order is for fighters.


There is a note at the beginning of Chapter 3, which is where I randomly decided to start, that describes the Battle of Hastings. No kidding.

Notes: During the research into the various weapons, conflicting backgrounds arose for several of the weapons. The terminology and history that follow were chosen for consistency with what has already been established in the AD&D(R) game universe.
Many references are made to an item known as the Bayeux Tapestry. This is a tapestry that depicts the Battle of Hastings in 1066 AD, in which William the Conqueror led the Normans from the European Continent to England. The Normans defeated the Anglo-Saxons under King Harold. This tapestry has given scholars many clues on how warfare was conducted at that time.

Thus, I will start with the fact that there are GUNS in this book: The arquebus, which, according to the helpful and always relevant historical blurbs, apparently gets it's name from the German Hakenbuchse, meaning "Gun with a hook". Because Germany totally is real in D&D.

The entry begins by saying that arquebus was a musket used by cultures just learning the technology of guns. And that the gun is also called a "Hackbut". There is then a bit on how the term "arquebus" started to be used for pretty much every type of gun until the word lost it's original meaning. Boo-hoo.

Then it says that in the AD&D(R) game campaigns (wait, we weren't talking them before?) the arquebus refers to the large, two-handed primitive gun with a smooth bore barrel as opposed to a rifled one, and it also often has a hooklike appendage on the underside of the barrel. So the gun is not really a rifle, but that's not going to stop those leftist pinko Nazi's from trying to ban it.

And now, we get a detailed explanation on the way the gun works. Not as in how it works game mechanically: As in how the inner workings of the gun's mechanisms actually work in real life. Brace yourselves.

The arquebus was developed in order to give the average infantry the use of smoke powder from a flask or horn into the muzzle and firmly packing it with a piece of paper. The projectile, an iron ball, is rammed in after this. Once the barrel is ready, the pan's cover is closed, and a burning slow-match (a piece of cloth or paper rolled into a fuse) is placed in the mechanism called the serpentine (the curved piece of metal where the trigger would someday be on a modern rifle). Pressure on a metal plate releases the serpentine into the pan, and BOOM!

Wow. I don't even...

Then we get to the part on how the DM can successfully be a massive fuckass.

Since this weapon involves smoke powder, DMs may forbid it's use. Players should ask their DM if it's okay to have highly inefficient weaponry in the campaign.

But that's not all.

It then goes on to say that smoke powder is considered a magical item. I am not shitting you. Now here's some more advice for DM fuckassery: The historical arquebus required two types of gun powder, a finer variety for pan loading and a coarse variety for muzzle loading. Each type was carried in separate container. (Here's the fuckassery) If the DM desires, the gunner may require both types of powders in order to operate the arquebus.

The book says that the arquebus is a very dangerous weapon (No shit), nearly as dangerous to the user as to the target. In order to reload, the gunner has to hold the smoldering slow-match in his left hand while reloading with his right.

Now, here's the best part: The arquebus can only be fired once every three rounds, providing the character is not being attacked while loading. The book suggests that DMs should treat the gunner as a spellcaster casting a very long spell. Oh, and when firing an arquebus, all range penalties are doubled. Because fuck you gunners.

If an arquebus attack roll is a 1 or a 2, the gun backfires, inflicting 1d6 points of damage to the gunner, and on top of that, it fouls the gun and cannot be used until cleaned, a process that takes 30 minutes of relative peace.

Now, when an arquebus actually does score a hit, it does 1-9 points of damage on 1d10. If a 10 is rolled, the die is rolled again and the amount of the second roll is added to the previous 10. Each time a 10 is rolled, the die is rolled again and added to the total and so on and so forth.

There are apparently no Strength modifiers to an arquebus' damage, which I guess makes some sense.

Oh, and if the powder gets wet, it becomes useless.

POSSIBLE SCENARIO

DM: You are attacked by several water elementals.
Gunner PC: Alright, I ready an action to fire my arquebus.
DM: Oh, it's raining, too. So the powder is wet and useless. And the water elementals have raped your dog during the long amount of time you were loading the gun.
Gunner PC: Fuck you, asshole.

Oh, and there's also a quote from some dude called Grymwand, Professional Mercenary, saying the weapon is not really worth the trouble, and that smart adventurers will bring a long bow instead.

Because guns are the only thing that get boned as much as fighters.

[JigokuBosatsu]

"Hackbut"!?!??! I am so naming a character that.

[hogarth]

"Hackbut"!?!??! I am so naming a character that.

Pathfinder has a double hackbut. So there!

[CapnTthePirateG]

Wait, if these things suck that much, why are they used? Weren't guns terror weapons back in the day, and shouldn't there be rules for spooking horses and shit?

[Darth Rabbitt]

The quote about the arquebus Shrapnel mentioned ends with:

"As far as can be determined, the arquebus is good for making gods-awful noise that will either scare the Nine Hells out of any enemy, or possibly anger the target into attacking with even more ferocity."
-Grymwand, Professional Mercenary

So they sort of bring it up, but also add that it may also just piss off your enemies, because screw you for not using darts or sword and board, or possibly double daggers if you kitted out extensively.

Next up is Chapter 2: Equipment for Mounts, which is a mere 10 pages long.

No idea what Shrapnel will post, probably fantasies about an arquebus that shoots GREAT, KNOBBED TAILS.

[Red_Rob]

Wasn't the equipment list in this book literally exactly the same as the one in the 2e PHB? Like, it didn't even add any new equipment, just added new rules to make the stuff you could already buy worse? It was like reverse power creep. Our group literally looked at it and thought "Why would anyone ever want that in their game?"

[fbmf]

Wasn't the equipment list in this book literally exactly the same as the one in the 2e PHB? Like, it didn't even add any new equipment, just added new rules to make the stuff you could already buy worse? It was like reverse power creep. Our group literally looked at it and thought "Why would anyone ever want that in their game?"

I remember buying it specifically so I would know what the various pole arms looked like...and then spears and halberd were all we ever used.

Game On,
fbmf

[Darth Rabbitt]

Wasn't the equipment list in this book literally exactly the same as the one in the 2e PHB? Like, it didn't even add any new equipment, just added new rules to make the stuff you could already buy worse? It was like reverse power creep. Our group literally looked at it and thought "Why would anyone ever want that in their game?"

I think so.

[Ted the Flayer]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html

[zugschef]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html

say cheese

[RobbyPants]

Wasn't the equipment list in this book literally exactly the same as the one in the 2e PHB? Like, it didn't even add any new equipment, just added new rules to make the stuff you could already buy worse? It was like reverse power creep. Our group literally looked at it and thought "Why would anyone ever want that in their game?"

From what I remember, yes. There were some weird racial armors (like gnomes wearing leather armor full of tools that functioned sort of like studded leather), but I don't remember anything actually being good.

On a side note, at the time, I loved the Player's Option: Combat & Tactics book that came out in the mid-nineties. They had an expanded weapon list, new rules for weapons (like armor-piercing crossbows and firearms), as well as weapon and armor lists broken out by time period. Firearms still sucked, but at least they made newer versions, and the flint locks were about as good as crossbows, plus they'd completely bypass armor at close range.

You know, this is the only 2E books I still own. Maybe I need to do a review of it soon...

[Darth Rabbitt]

There were some weird racial armors (like gnomes wearing leather armor full of tools that functioned sort of like studded leather), but I don't remember anything actually being good.

Yeah, forgot to bring that up because I was filled with rage about how the rest of the chapter had been about boning armor users, and it wasn't flat-out better than other equipment like the elven or dwarven armors (which other than the Drow armor I mentioned earlier, are just Elven Chain and Dwarven Plate, which are both in the 2e core books, and like there are just better versions of chain and plate armor respectively.)

The Gnomish Workman's Armor has this gem:

While a few items on the belt do not significantly ruin this feature of the base armor, enough gadgets to alter the armor class cannot help but clink and bang into each other, crinkle and spill out when the owner bends over, or accidentally drop off or explode in the most heated battle or flight.

There is nothing that explains how many gadgets is enough to alter the armor class. The only other thing mentioned about its ability to carry shit is that it has enough pockets to carry 10 lbs. of equipment, and about half of that can be considered hidden. But nothing on whether or not that changes the AC.

You know, this is the only 2E books I still own. Maybe I need to do a review of it soon...

Arms and Equipment Guide, or Complete Fighter's Handbook?

Either way, I should really write Chapter 2 soon.

[hogarth]

I remember buying it specifically so I would know what the various pole arms looked like...and then spears and halberd were all we ever used.

You didn't have a copy of the 1E Unearthed Arcana?

[Darth Rabbitt]

Chapter 2: Equipment for Mounts

There's an opening page about the historical context of barding, and then we get to actual rules. Half barding is like full barding, only it only covers the front. (Remember 2e facing rules? They're back, in POG form.) Partial barding is like full barding, only crappier. Then we get explanations for the name of every piece of horse armor, and nobody cares. After that, there are descriptions of horse versions of all the armors from the first chapter, except for the demi-human race specific armors, and hide. For the most part, this is the same as the armor chapter, but for some reason studded leather barding is considered medium armor for horses. This literally could have been an extra page on the first chapter (just focusing on how natural armor and armor interact) and saved a lot of trees.

Next is descriptions of bridles, horseshoes and saddles:

Bridles: Only notable thing is that there is a special type that is "much more difficult to snare or cut" but no bonuses/penalties are given for this. There's a weapon called a bridle cutter later, but that doesn't give any rules for cutting bridles either. This book literally raises more questions than it answers.
Horseshoes: Tells you all about horseshoes. Nothing game-mechanical, other than the fact that you can make magical horseshoes, which I already knew from looking at the back of my Lucky Charms box the DMG.
Saddles: Riding bareback gives a penalty (requiring "special riding checks" at -2) unless your character's culture specializes in riding bareback and you have the proficiency. So essentially any player who is in a game that uses this book will make all their mounted characters come from such a culture.

Saddlebags, saddle blankets, and spurs are just paragraphs that do nothing other than tell the reader what those things are.

Optional rule: screw mounted fighters who don't have stirrups! Otherwise, they're also just another page filler.

Then there are a bunch of tables that basically explain the last 8 pages in 2 pages.

I hate this book so much.

[Username17]

I don't actually know how you could convince someone that bronze plate was steel plate with paint. Bronze is actually pretty good armor, but it is heavy as fuck and has to be thicker than steel. So the whole breastplate is going to weigh like two and a half times what a steel breastplate would. The other problem of course is that bronze is expensive, meaning that even if for some reason you could fool someone into thinking a bronze plate was a steel one, you wouldn't do that because iron is a lot cheaper than copper and tin.

-Username17

[fbmf]

I remember buying it specifically so I would know what the various pole arms looked like...and then spears and halberd were all we ever used.

You didn't have a copy of the 1E Unearthed Arcana?

Negative. Didn't start playing until 1990. 2e was the hot new thing and that's all the guys that taught me to play had. When my dad bought me the 2e PHB and DMG that summer, he bought the 2e version. Dad had all his 1e stuff, but I played 2e so was never interested except for the modules.

Game On,
FBMF

[angelfromanotherpin]

Dan Howard, the armor expert for the GURPS line, maintains that bronze is generally functionally identical to premodern grades of steel, except that it costs a buttload more.

[Darth Rabbitt]

As a History major, I can say with certainty that this book's definition of "historical accuracy" means "using historical techno-babble to screw fighters whenever possible, while providing medieval weapons/armor trivia that isn't even as good as what can be found on a Snapple cap to make it seem more legit (which I suppose falls into techno-babble.)"

Will wait a bit to do the next chapter, as it's 56 pages of weapon bullshit.

Don't know if/when Shrapnel will next post in this review, so I'm not waiting for him.

[Chamomile]

So basically this is 2e's horse armor DLC?

[zugschef]

Dan Howard, the armor expert for the GURPS line, maintains that bronze is generally functionally identical to premodern grades of steel, except that it costs a buttload more.

it's quite a difference when your soldiers are carrying around more weight due to heavier weapons and armor (just look at the periodic table: even if you could work bronze just as iron, you'd still have a heavier product in the end). as far as i remember it was a major factor in the wars between the greek and persians.

[Darth Rabbitt]

Chapter 3 has little of note, unless you really like hearing a paragraph or two on how Dwarven Battle Axes are based off of Swiss designs. That being said, I'm reviewing each one, except the arquebus, as Shrapnel already covered it in excessive detail.

Battle axes are piles of flavor text and no one cares. Only notable thing is that greataxes apparently and specifically use bardiche stats.

The Belaying Pin has a diatribe about how you shouldn't specialize in it, which kind of makes me want to create a character who is the greatest belaying pin fighter in the world.

Blowguns are only any good in ambushing people at close quarters to deliver poison and even then you could just stab them with a dagger if you're concerned with being quiet. A shame, because blowguns should really be better weapons, since they're cool. But fuck you if you wanted to make a character who specialized in a cool weapon, because REALISM

Bolas have one of the most racist passages in D&D history:

Currently, it is still used by arctic tribes and by savages who dwell on temperate plains.

They can also be used to trip or strangle people with called shots. Not particularly good, but it is fucking awesome to strangle people with bolas.

Bows are bows, and like with battle axes no one got this for fucking bows. They got it for Bohemian ear-spoons, and they don't get it.

Caltrops are basically what they are in 3.x.

Cestus is another cool weapon concept that sucks. Next!

Clubs, crossbows, daggers are more or less the same, but daggers have dirks and parrying daggers that aren't actually any different mechanically from vanilla daggers.

Darts still kick ass in 2e, due to their high rate of fire and opportunities for huge static damage boosts.

Flails are flails, and there is a posited connection to the flindbar. The flindbar is basically nunchaku used by flinds, who are gnolls with one more HD because that's how monster races worked back then. Unfortunately, there are no stats for either flindbars or nunchaku in this book.

Gaffs/Hooks are another pretty awesome weapon that are used by pirates. From the Flail entry above, it's clear that this book favors Pirates over Ninjas, but likes to screw over both. REALIZM

Hand Axes and Throwing Axes are one weapon in this book, even though for the most part there are wayy more weapon variants in this book. Go figure.

Harpoons are actually pretty nice, can be used for melee or ranged without penalty, and require a save vs. poison to dislodge. I forgot how stupid the 2e saving throw types were.

Javelins are like less awesome harpoons.

Knives have an entry separate from daggers, but are essentially worse in every way.

Lances aren't nearly as good as in 3.x because lack of charging cheese. And come in jousting flavors. The only really nice part is that "Locathah riding on the backs of giant eels use light lances." Fishmen cavalry riding eels are fucking awesome. A book about that would be so much cooler than this book.

For some reason the Lasso is listed as a weapon and then discouraged to take as a weapon. While this is not unusual for this book (see the Belaying Pin above) the fact that they recommend taking the Use Rope proficiency instead of Lasso Proficiency is odd. You can do tricks with it but they aren't listed here, but rather in the Complete Fighter's Handbook. Fuck this book.

Maces are maces. Kind of getting tired of listing the weapons that aren't of particular note.

Mancatchers use touch attacks, although they're not called that. They also look awesome. Mysteriously nets don't.

Morning Star: See Mace.

War Pick: See Morning Star. Actually War Picks are kind of cool, but I had to use that joke.

Polearms take up six pages, but don't have Bohemian ear-spoons. Lame. Still beats Oblivion which has no polearms.

Quarterstaff: See War Pick.

Saps are like they are in 3e, but much more convoluted for REAZLIARM

Saying that the only creatures to use scourges are Balors only make me want to use them more. It also has a quote from a priestess of Loviatar, which is pretty cool.

Sickle: Along with the hammer, you can use this weapon for Communist justice!

Sling: See Quarterstaff.

Spears are spears, but are still awesome because they're even more phallic than swords.

Staff-Sling is like chocolate and peanut butter, and actually pretty cool, but not particularly good.

Swords eat up another 8 pages, and the only thing of note is that the khopesh, which is awesome in DDO, sucks to the point that they tell you it's a crappy druid weapon.

Tridents are cool. In the Fighting Fantasy book Beneath Nightmare Castle, the plot device artifact is a trident. I really wish I was reviewing Beneath Nightmare Castle.

War Hammer: Comes in both regular and 40k versions, and both are overrated and have annoying fans. Games Workshop is a guilty pleasure indeed.

Whips can also use called shots to do cool things, and are actually better than they are in 3.x, but that doesn't say much.

Then there are two pages of all the weapon stats, proving how much of a waste of paper this book is.

The last two chapters are literally 18 pages long, and shall be reviewed later.

[Voss]

Ok, that passage on the bola isn't even close to the most racist thing in D&D history. The savages: cave men thing comes a lot closer, and there is all sorts of other bullshit that has surfaced over the years. I'm sure someone has parroted Tolkien or Howard on the basis of skin color being a measure of Goodness and Civilization.

And there is always the pygmy bullshit.

[Darth Rabbitt]

I suppose I was putting too much faith in D&D writers by assuming that was close to the most racist thing they had spawned.