Torchbearer - Kickstarter is UP

silva · Post by **silva** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:03 am

Anyone seen this ?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... ing-wheel/

EDIT: updating to say the kickstarter is up.

JigokuBosatsu · Post by **JigokuBosatsu** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:17 am

Holy geez, it says "murder hobos" in the first paragraph.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:24 am

Hey, I'd donate to their kickstarter. My interest is piqued.

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:36 am

JigokuBosatsu wrote:Holy geez, it says "murder hobos" in the first paragraph.

Are you considering this a pro or a con?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:39 am

I'm not sure I would ever want to play more than a one shot of that. I sure as fuck don't want to play a game for very long if my character can never master the absurdly broken talent of seeing in the dark.

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:40 am

It certainly has a very "low magic" vibe.

squirrelloid · Post by **squirrelloid** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:41 am

Kaelik wrote:I'm not sure I would ever want to play more than a one shot of that. I sure as fuck don't want to play a game for very long if my character can never master the absurdly broken talent of seeing in the dark.

I think you have to imagine this as being a less fantastic and more grimdark world than D+D. Survival underground is apparently supposed to remain a serious challenge, which means you'll never get create food and water, much less at character creation ("1st level" or whatever the appropriate analog is)

JigokuBosatsu · Post by **JigokuBosatsu** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:42 am

Well, I liked the honesty, but after reading the description it sounds like a really boring and frustrating game. Like the one the protagonist makes in Cryptonomicon.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:53 am

I'm not sure if it will end up being a fun game, but I want to see how it turns out.

Foxwarrior · Post by **Foxwarrior** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:02 am

It sounds a lot like an ordinary Roguelike, really. I don't know what they hope to gain by making it a TTRPG.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:02 am

Every tiny detail of your encumbrance, from the food in your pack to the shield on your arm,

“I wanted to make a game where caving and dungeoneering felt like a big deal,” he says, “where your character could be cold and wet and feel the oppressive weight of the dark.”

“You need to fit treasure in your pack somehow. It often requires discarding valuable gear....your inventory lies at the heart of each expedition."

Welcome to inventory management, the game!

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:23 am

So...

The entire game is broken in half by the invention of some kind of wheeled cart that can be pulled and easily transported up and down cliffs.

squirrelloid · Post by **squirrelloid** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:41 am

Kaelik wrote:So...

The entire game is broken in half by the invention of some kind of wheeled cart that can be pulled and easily transported up and down cliffs.

And somehow manages to fit through small holes, and isn't hampered by underground water hazards, and manages all this with medieval technology... honestly, i'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but no such device exists afaik.

RiotGearEpsilon · Post by **RiotGearEpsilon** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:41 am

Not necessarily, but the game then becomes about protecting the cart.

'Inventory management, the game' is not necessarily something with mass appeal, but it's something that I've wanted to play for a long time.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am

squirrelloid wrote:
Kaelik wrote:So...

The entire game is broken in half by the invention of some kind of wheeled cart that can be pulled and easily transported up and down cliffs.
And somehow manages to fit through small holes, and isn't hampered by underground water hazards, and manages all this with medieval technology... honestly, i'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but no such device exists afaik.

Um... no. The cart doesn't have to fit everywhere. It has to fit in general in a lot of places, but parties have been not going into small places for decades and no one complains that you can't scout the kobold maze with your medium size PCs, and no one is going to complain that you can't move your medium sized cart into small holes either.

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:53 am

Kaelik wrote:
squirrelloid wrote:
Kaelik wrote:So...

The entire game is broken in half by the invention of some kind of wheeled cart that can be pulled and easily transported up and down cliffs.
And somehow manages to fit through small holes, and isn't hampered by underground water hazards, and manages all this with medieval technology... honestly, i'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but no such device exists afaik.
Um... no. The cart doesn't have to fit everywhere. It has to fit in general in a lot of places, but parties have been not going into small places for decades and no one complains that you can't scout the kobold maze with your medium size PCs, and no one is going to complain that you can't move your medium sized cart into small holes either.

Given that a big part of the concept of the game is getting into places that aren't quite so easily accessible, with a big focus on natural caverns and such where there will be squeezing, I don't think the cart will break anything.

Though yes, having carts will give delving into a dwarven ruin a much different feel from spelunking into random caves. I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:26 am

RiotGearEpsilon wrote: 'Inventory management, the game' is not necessarily something with mass appeal, but it's something that I've wanted to play for a long time.

Given that's a theme of Post-Apocalyptic scenarios, and I've done such management in RPG's all the time, I too think I could get into this. Always enjoyed being bit of a packrat in games, so the "slot" system over weight, I question if it'll easily be a bad/broken rule. So hopefully they do the calculations to what fits in what slots there, especially given "purpose" is to delve for treasure in the first place. Probably be bit janked if everyone was encouraged to never pick up treasure at all, defeating the purpose of the journey for the characters, so hopefully can carry "something" out for ones troubles by the journey's end.

Also, I can agree with the notion, this seems like a one-shot, or otherwise a game that would be very short-term and probably end after a single dungeon crawl.

silva · Post by **silva** » Wed May 01, 2013 10:35 pm

Updating to say the kickstarter is up.

And a new article on the Forbes about it, with some new details and art.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Wed May 01, 2013 10:43 pm

Props to people making TTRPGS work via Kickstarter....but it doesn't appeal to me personally.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Thu May 02, 2013 1:13 am

They mention something interesting in their video. They say they have an independent playtest underway out of their control, how is this supposed to work and would this be better or worse then the standard model of playtesting?

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu May 02, 2013 1:38 am

Juton wrote:They mention something interesting in their video. They say they have an independent playtest underway out of their control, how is this supposed to work and would this be better or worse then the standard model of playtesting?

maybe it would be unhindered by bias from the designers. like giving a new speed boat to average consumer Joe that uses speedboats and having Joe tell you what works or doesnt without you trying to sell them on it?

that way Joe can tell them what he really thinks without being led to any conclusions or assumptions about it to begin with.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat May 04, 2013 1:01 am

Or like giving a pilot a new plane without the NATOPS, so they can figure out the bold text for themselves.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Sat May 04, 2013 1:18 am

Everytime I hear "with a twist" I want to say "Go fuck yourself".

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Sun May 05, 2013 4:31 am

squirrelloid wrote:
Kaelik wrote:So...

The entire game is broken in half by the invention of some kind of wheeled cart that can be pulled and easily transported up and down cliffs.
And somehow manages to fit through small holes, and isn't hampered by underground water hazards, and manages all this with medieval technology... honestly, i'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but no such device exists afaik.

It can be 6" wide and just have a torchholder (or lantern holder, as most lanterns are smaller than that. Two wheels with a single short axel and a long handle. It would be fucking simple to make. It wouldn't 100% all terrain, and you'd have to step away from it when the combat music starts, but you could build it so it props itself up fairly easily as long as no one makes an effort to kick it over.

As to the game, I initially thought they were talking about a computer game, which sounded moderately viable as a cheap indie game. But as TTRPG where you have to track all that bullshit yourself? Fuck no.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun May 05, 2013 5:42 am

I will say this, I quite like the Mouse Guard RPG. It has a certain zen thing going on, there's enough that you can sink your teeth into it but not so much as to be impenetrable. And like Voss says it sounds a lot like they took that and piled a bunch of largely unnecessary stuff that throws that balance out the window and while that might work you have to be careful about it because while logistics and dragons can be fun you don't want to take it too far because that shit gives people headaches. Also, the bit about lantern oil at the beginning made me think of this.