The Gaming Den

Nice feature article on the escapist, thought it might interest some of you:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... Hate-Magic

It just seems like he's all pissed-off "because fantasy".
He's looking for a level of depth that 99.9% of people could give 2 shits about.
I think that one of the comments hit it on the head with (paraphrasing) "that level of depth is fine for a game about mages; but superfluous in a game that simply happens to have mages".

When I was reading the beginning of the article, I hoped that he had some interesting ideas for ways to incorporate dog-beheading-style rituals.

Sadly, in the end he just asked for spells that were harder to code and animate, and more of those "fight without your equipment" levels.

wotmaniac wrote:"that level of depth is fine for a game about mages; but superfluous in a game that simply happens to have mages".

That and you know, analogies. You tackle religion and mysticism in mass media at your own peril.

I dunno, fuck this guy, pretty much.

My reaction is basically "Dude, if you want complicated fiddly magic like that just play Age of Wonders, Dominions, or King of Dragon Pass."

Most times I check out an article on the Escapist, I get the feeling they are horrifyingly underexposed to the vast variety of games out there.

The article seems to be about one third complaining that videogame magic is dull and trite, which I basically agree with, because it is. I mean, most magic in games is insultingly basically the same as shooting a bow. And while you can say that magic shouldn't be better or more complex than that in games that have mages but aren't about mages: 1) Games that are about mages also have boring shitty magic. 2) Any game in which one option for the PC is to be a mage is about mages.

Another third of the article is complaining about shit that is purely cosmetic, and probably not in line with most people's preferences, while I am fine with ice shooting feeling different than fire shooting, the fact of the matter is fuck you, I don't want my magic to be tied to gods if I don't want it to.

And another third is stuff that veers between could be useful as a gimmick in a specific game or could be completely shit as a gameplay mechanic, IE environment base magic is cool, but how do you make that viable in a game in which characters are supposed to explore all the environments? Or, yeah eat a dick I don't want to have to kill people with my bare hands to trigger my blood magic.

Overall, 1/5.

Kaelik wrote:IE environment base magic is cool, but how do you make that viable in a game in which characters are supposed to explore all the environments?

Without wanting to necessarily defend the article: it could work, for example, in a FF tactics-like game. Defined tiles with clear position and a probably finite tile set equals a clear understanding of the situation.

Also, environment does not equal nature. Preparing a fight by setting up, I don't know, a runecircle, or summoning spirits that syphon extra energy to you, is a requirement mainly on time, not surroundings. Which is of course something that a lot of games have, but usually with the same simple button push that triggers blasting.

The spirit thing with the symbolic link is also a something that might add to a game. Give a character the power to fuck a target up the spiritual ass with a lock of the target's hair, and suddenly having conmen/thieves in the group makes a lot more sense. Granted, that would be a game with Fallout 1 / 2 levels of freedom, and they don't make those any more.

crasskris wrote:Granted, that would be a game with Fallout 1 / 2 levels of freedom, and they don't make those any more.

What about the Wasteland game that got Kickstarted? There might be some pretty open-ended stuff released in the next few years.

Avoraciopoctules wrote:What about the Wasteland game that got Kickstarted? There might be some pretty open-ended stuff released in the next few years.

Would you leave an old man to his nostalgia-motivated complains about today's youth?

Also, that is my lawn you are standing on. Remove yourself, or I'll call the police!

Avoraciopoctules wrote:My reaction is basically "Dude, if you want complicated fiddly magic like that just play Age of Wonders, Dominions, or King of Dragon Pass."

Most times I check out an article on the Escapist, I get the feeling they are horrifyingly underexposed to the vast variety of games out there.

I think it is pretty legitimate to say, "man I sure wish I could play a game with complex kickass magic as a single sorcerer who doesn't micromanage and empire and/or a large party of minions."

Avoraciopoctules wrote:Most times I check out an article on the Escapist, I get the feeling they are horrifyingly underexposed to the vast variety of games out there.

Yeah, Escapist feature articles oscillate between light-weight, under-researched and haphazardly structured opinion pieces and actual journalism, with a bias towards the former. Many are better at sparking a discussion than providing a solid, well-informed basis for one.

wotmaniac wrote:I think that one of the comments hit it on the head with (paraphrasing) "that level of depth is fine for a game about mages; but superfluous in a game that simply happens to have mages".

Depends on what your baseline is; sadly the rather bare-bones article provides far to few 'bad' examples.

If you've got a game that happens to have mages, and these mages happen to be a playable class, then a mage should have some depth added to him, if only to differentiate him in a meaningful way from the archer or the flask-throwing alchemist. And different mechanics don't necessarily mean increased complexity. Hell, if you're crafty with cosmetics you probably don't even need that much mechanical differentiation, as long as the class feels different in play.

Of course many games have that to some degree. Some do it better, some do it worse, but one can safely assume that the author is complaining while already enjoying a rather high standard.

EDIT: Also, I think the amount of grind in your game is a defining factor. If you have to fight a hundred or more enemies per hour of play, you definitely want a simple to handle mechanic.

EDIT: And stress. A tactical game would gain from depth, but in an action game it might just needlessly ramp up the difficulty.