The Gaming Den

The Lighting industry is becoming an electronics company, new lights can be turned on and off with bluetooth and wifi. The automotive industry is becoming an electronics company, cars are becoming more automated with touchscreen controls to the point that the companies are trying to hire more IT talent than before.

The RPG industry needs to become an electronics company. The Future of RPG Gaming is on the computer. Most discussion of D&D occurs online. Most players find groups through online listings. Even old-time D&D designers like Frank Mentzer have started or continued D&D groups via the internet because of convenience reasons. The longest and best campaigns I have been able to participate in have been online and tons of new accessibility options become available online.

Hasbro's decision not to release their own game table was a backwards decision. Pathfinder's decision not to release a game table was a backwards decision. These old-time designers with games like 13th Age and Numenera are lazy and backwards-thinking for not including a Game Table.

Creating a game table program requires talented IT work and steps outside the comfort zone of old-time designers, yet it's the best way to make it easy for the customer base to organize games together and access your product. Any game company that releases a somewhat decent game system with a somewhat decent game table will instantly become a top-seller. We just have to wait for a new generation of the ambitious

What exactly do you mean by 'Game Table'? Like some giant LED display that is also a playing surface, or some web-app that shows icons on a grid?

Well, as mentioned in the 4E DMG2 review thread, the guy in charge of DDI was the murderer in a murder-suicide. And 4E imploded so quickly that there just simply wasn't time to switch the project particulars over to a new tech team and resume their work.

So the Virtual Tabletop imploding wasn't, I think, so much 4E D&D's fault as incredibly terrible luck. Unless you still want to blame the designers for creating such a suck-ass game that it couldn't last long enough to justify the resumption of the original DDI.

Not computer, but mobile devices such as phones and tablets.

Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp wrote:Pathfinder's decision not to release a game table was a backwards decision.

The paizo one was cancelled?

But what future do you exactly see?
Online play purely through the internet?
Applications that handle die rolling / char sheets / look up rules quickly etc?
A virtual battle map (online or offline on a tablet or something)?

Juton wrote:What exactly do you mean by 'Game Table'? Like some giant LED display that is also a playing surface, or some web-app that shows icons on a grid?

Programs like MapTool that are intended to make gaming over the internet easier.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:So the Virtual Tabletop imploding wasn't, I think, so much 4E D&D's fault as incredibly terrible luck.

How soon we forget that these chucklefuckers thought Gleemax was a good idea.

A lot of this is already available, there's just not an industry standard. What WotC or Paizo or someone should do is just sponsor one of those already existing applications, like Roll20 or MapTool, who are better suited to make a custom edition of their stuff for that game, rather than making an entirely new one in-house.

The people I know play TableTop RPGs exactly because you don't have to pay to get into them, or to get more players to join in when someone leaves.

So I dunno man.

Internet RPGs are better than tabletop in exactly one way: you can play asynchronously. That's huge, and it's basically the only convenient way to play with people who don't live in the same town. But that's it.

Other than that, you're better off either with a skype chat or just playing a multiplayer videogame. Maptools and roll20 either get in the way, or don't do enough.

Yeah, my best online gaming has not been via virtual tabletop things, it's been through play-by-post. Now the IRC games are loads of fun, but they're loads of fun despite the fact that it's via IRC. Because you still have to deal with "I slept in, sorry" like normal games, except you can't actually just rock up at MC's house and shout "Yo, game on!" (I have been on both sides of that exchange)

There is a lot to be said for gathering in-person to play. When that can't be done, play-by-post does require some system of people tasering each other to keep things moving (it says something that the longest-lasting online game in which I've played is being run by a military guy), but is probably the next best option. IRC is next, for those who want the real-time environment more than they want the flexibility of hours.

Making a dedicated program for it sounds great, but you're asking people to download another thing on top of committing to an online thing (where people can't walk to their house and make them wake up, and where if you just click down there on the toolbar you can get distracted by pictures of cats). It really needs to offer everything they could ever want.

Can't stand the pace of PBP, personally. My best online gaming has been play by chat, with good descriptive participants who aren't afraid to lean away from mechanics in the name of making the game flow.

Lots of people seem to be enjoying the hell out of that google+ gaming, because it's basically face-to-face gaming with associated discussion/prep logs, and you can easily check out your DM's thesis of life beforehand. Just needs a good connection from someone to host.

But expecting WotC to produce something like g+ is a very big ask, considering their history. They've almost got the hang of character generators, after a couple decades, except for how milking it through errata kinda helped kill an edition.

Well they are doing another forum migration. So I expect them to give a renewed effort to turn their forums into a social network.

I also expect it to work as well as the last few, but the effort is being made.

What I'd look for in an online tabletop is this.

1)Realtime Text and Voice Chat.

2)Asynchronous Text Chat.

3)Private messaging

4)Integrated Character Generator

5)Integrated character sheet manager.

6)Automatic dice rolling.

7)Optional battlemap

8)Integrated Rulebooks, all of them.

Ideally you'd want it to be more like a computer game with a DM than a normal pen and paper game, so that a player can just press the attack button and the tabletop automatically makes all the rolls for him. It would automatically keep track of character and monster stats. It would automatically keep track of inventories. And it would have social networking features.

How many of you use mobile apps like WhatsApp, Wechat, Line, and so on?

Am I the only one who's main attraction to the hobby is the social event aspect?
For me, there's no real substitute for physically sitting around a table in the actual physical company of your friends.
Relegating this hobby to yet just another "electronic social media" seems to remove the intimacy that I've come to associate with RPing.
Otherwise, I'll just play a video game.

/2¢

Once we get to the point where touch tables become cheap enough that we start seeing becoming a popular platform for board games then I think it's time for RPGs to go digital, though we're not quite there yet.

The ability to just buy a hack and slash dungeon exploration module and be able to run it with very little effort, with automatic mapping and visibility and nice looking (combat) animations for all the monsters and some optional mood music ... that would be nice.

MfA wrote:Once we get to the point where touch tables become cheap enough that we start seeing becoming a popular platform for board games then I think it's time for RPGs to go digital, though we're not quite there yet.

The ability to just buy a hack and slash dungeon exploration module and be able to run it with very little effort, with automatic mapping and visibility and nice looking (combat) animations for all the monsters and some optional mood music ... that would be nice.

A digital play format in your living room, while awesome, is quite different than the social-media-only format that is suggested by the OP.

wotmaniac wrote:Am I the only one who's main attraction to the hobby is the social event aspect?
For me, there's no real substitute for physically sitting around a table in the actual physical company of your friends.
Relegating this hobby to yet just another "electronic social media" seems to remove the intimacy that I've come to associate with RPing.
Otherwise, I'll just play a video game.

/2¢

You're not.

I mean, I get that for some people, online is the only way that works. But it has zero attraction for me.

wotmaniac wrote:A digital play format in your living room, while awesome, is quite different than the social-media-only format that is suggested by the OP.

Sure, but there is an overlap ... the software is mostly the same, even in the living room you would want a separate DM screen on a tablet and the player screen on the touch table.

I think board gaming is most likely to create a market for touch table gaming, with third party RPG modules following and finally pulling the big publishers along ... at which they will finally start making virtual table tops. Not specifically for the internet players, but still benefiting them.

hyzmarca wrote:What I'd look for in an online tabletop is this.

1)Realtime Text and Voice Chat.

2)Asynchronous Text Chat.

3)Private messaging

4)Integrated Character Generator

5)Integrated character sheet manager.

6)Automatic dice rolling.

7)Optional battlemap

8)Integrated Rulebooks, all of them.

Roll20 has almost all of these. Exceptions: Integrated Rulebooks (but pop open the SRD and you can get similar for 3.5 or PF) and integrated character generator, and also it takes more effort than it should to set up your character sheet. Still, I am very impressed with how far they've come and how close they are to moving a game online entirely. Unfortunately, the integrated rulebooks are going to be tough to add to Roll20. It would take a lot of coding effort, which means it's difficult to justify adding the feature unless their supporters will benefit from it almost ubiquitously. Even if 70% of the games played there are 3.5 or PF (and therefore have SRDs), Roll20 would probably rather spend their time on fancy bells and whistles that 100% of their supporters can use.

MfA wrote:

wotmaniac wrote:A digital play format in your living room, while awesome, is quite different than the social-media-only format that is suggested by the OP.

Sure, but there is an overlap ... the software is mostly the same, even in the living room you would want a separate DM screen on a tablet and the player screen on the touch table.

I think board gaming is most likely to create a market for touch table gaming, with third party RPG modules following and finally pulling the big publishers along ... at which they will finally start making virtual table tops. Not specifically for the internet players, but still benefiting them.

Fair enough.

Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp wrote: Hasbro's decision not to release their own game table was a backwards decision. Pathfinder's decision not to release a game table was a backwards decision. These old-time designers with games like 13th Age and Numenera are lazy and backwards-thinking for not including a Game Table.

If I want to play a computer game, I can just do that.

A horizontally mounted computer screen is a pain in the ass (neck), not a feature.

Given the current costs of such things, making them for the tiny fraction of the player base that would actually buy them wasn't backwards, but sensible.

Voss wrote:

Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp wrote: Hasbro's decision not to release their own game table was a backwards decision. Pathfinder's decision not to release a game table was a backwards decision. These old-time designers with games like 13th Age and Numenera are lazy and backwards-thinking for not including a Game Table.

If I want to play a computer game, I can just do that.

A horizontally mounted computer screen is a pain in the ass (neck), not a feature.

Given the current costs of such things, making them for the tiny fraction of the player base that would actually buy them wasn't backwards, but sensible.

Horrizontal computer screen? Full touch table? Fuck that. Don't ask people to buy new devices, make things for the devices they already have. Someone, probably the DM, runs a server for the game session on their smart phone / tablet / laptop / whatever, and everyone else connects to it as clients. Multiple personal windows into the game world work just as well as a larger shared one, and also open up options for asymmetric tactical information if you wanted to roll that way.