The Gaming Den

A friend of mine was looking to buy Betrayal at the house on Haunted Hill until it went out of print recently and quadrupled in price.

So he was looking at Settlers of Catan but I recall some Dennizens mentioning that it's sort of outdated and there are better games now that fill the same niche.

So... for a guy looking to put together a starting collection for Friday night beer & pretzels, what should he grab?

i'd still go for settlers of catan.
i actually shelled out for the star trek version.
and before that, i went for one of the higher tier ones.
of course, not for the one with hand crafted wooden parts and wooden part box . . because a board game for more than 400 bucks is stupid.

and depending on how fast you want friendships to be destroyed:
risk is still on the table as an option i think.

Basic Settlers can get a bit boring if you've played it too much. The add-ons...well, some gamers will like the expanded complexity, others won't. There's little outright broken in the expansions, it just gets weird when you're tacking on rulesets and suddenly somebody corners the market in fish and stealths their way to victory. Still, for beer & pretzels it's not bad.

Arkham Horror if you've got a more sophisticated crowd.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301016161417?lpid=82

Get it fast.

fectin wrote:http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301016161417?lpid=82

Get it fast.

Out of stock D:

HeroQuest!

Betrayal is of course fun. Likewise Arkham Horror, especially if you have an app for the location cards (disclaimer, I have not used the app, and $3 in order to not have to bother with location cards feels like a scam, but I'd probably still pay it if I was gonna play somewhat regularly).

The Firefly board game actually isn't too shabby. I've played it a few times and it seems to continue to have plenty of life left in it for repeat play.

Carcasonne is a decent tile building game that runs about 30-40 minutes every time. A nice quickie and the expansions can spice it up as well. It is a minor pain to sort back out expansion tiles though if you don't want to permanently leave em in.





For the joke option I cannot resist: D&D 4.C; Tordek in the Dragon's Lair with the Flaming Axe.

It's a dark night, when the group assembled at the Archmage's castle. What started as a wonderful dinner party has turned into a ghastly scene. The Archmage has been murdered (by a doppelganger, no less). The doppelganger hides amongst the group hoping to escape, but it didn't count on two things. First, the castle is magically sealed until the murderer is caught. And second: you're on the case!

sigma999 wrote:HeroQuest!

I played this with my uncle and my younger cousin (around age ten) when I was a teenager. Pretty streamlined and friendly for all ages. It's like 4E without the rules arguments about durations.

if you play with assholes:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/30549/pandemic
it's a cooperative game. it's a group of players against the game.
untill the bio terrorists appear in a city and start releasing bilogical weapons of mass destruction on many if not all mayor cities around the world.

*waves at the NSA man reading*
sucks to be you buddy because: you just lost the game!

First Off, the Classic Literature of Boardgaming, games that you need to at least know about:

• Go - this might not be the world's oldest game, but it seems to be the oldest game where humanity never lost the rules. It does emergent complexity and infinite scaling very very well
• Chess, Xianqi and Shogi. These are the three main branches of the same gaming phylum and taken in contrast to each other they demonstrate variations on a theme as well as how games react to the culture around them.
• Hnefatafl - possibly the earliest example of an assymetric game
• Nine Men's Morris - the earliest game about forming pieces into lines, ancestor to Tic-Tac-Toe
• Pachisi - the ancestor of most western roll and move games well worth contrasting to Backgammon
• Poker - this huge family of related games demonstrates a myriad of ways to shift hypergeometric probabilities with a betting element that is all about reading opponents.
• Bridge -The only current game to have a daily column in most newspapers covering its strategy. Sadly I can't tell you much about the intricacies of bidding and finesseing and such in this most "grown up" of the various trick-taking card games, but this game did something to hit the big time.
• Dominoes - the most common and maybe oldest example of a tile-laying game. Contrasts nicely with Mah Jong.
• H. G. Well's Little Wars. The first wargame to be published in book format and a fun read.
• Monopoly. This illustrates a whole bunch of things.The Landlord's Game was intended to be a boardgame argument for land-tax propaganda, and the evolution of The Landlord's Game into Monopoly shows how popular games evolve with the playerbase and a game's message can easily be reversed. According to Wikipedia The Landlord's Game introduced both the concept of an infinitely looping board (there is no end space) and the concept of owning spaces on such a board. (Although the idea of controlling space on a board goes back to Go). The early success of Monopoly during the Great Depression demonstrates how the popularity of boardgames as a pastime runs counter to the business cycle, and the path from Darrow's original self-publication to the current Hasbro ownership is the perfect example of the story of every commercially successful boardgame of the twentieth century.
• Bingo. A massively multiplayer game of paying attention. Notable for its popularity and use as a charitable fundraiser in jurisdictions where no other form of gambling is allowed.
• Scrabble - the most well known wordgame. If you buy into gender stereotypes about linguistic facility and spatial reasoning, this game does an amazing job of balancing those factors in formulating a winning strategy.
• Cluedo -this kinda klunky old-school roll and move game is actually an excellent example of a pure deduction game, complete with little sheets to check off each "not x" as proven. More contemporary deduction games try to be far less obvious about it.
• Yahtzee - a pure dice game about knowing odds and pushing your luck
• Diplomacy - this boardgame is notable for being a commercially successful play-by-mail game (as opposed to public domain play by mail, such as Chess, or the zillions of modern play by internet games)
• Acquire - This is notable, I am ashamed to admit that I can't tell you why.
• Dungeons and Dragons - The first role playing game. Dave Arenson's concept of each player controlling a single character with hit points instead of an army with multiple units combined with wargaming ideas of campaigning and Gygax's ripping off fantasy elements from Tolkien and Vance spawned a whole new genre of games.
• Cosmic Encounter - this game of alien races with wildly varying powers for each player has been inspiring similar games for decades now.
• Empire Builder - the first Crayon Rail game, a decent example of the Train Game. The concept has been streamlined in more contemporary games such as Ticket to Ride
• Trivial Pursuit - the big contender in the Trivia Games category, this game is notable for being played between groups of adults only in the 1980s, helping to reduce the perception of gaming as something only done to entertain children or by the sorts of social misfits who hung around the Android's Dungeon
• Illuminati - this Steve Jackson game may be the earliest to be dually asymmetric. Not only does each faction have a unique player power, but each faction also has a unique victory condition.
• Arkham Horror - one of the first co-op board games, still popular today despite the general move of co-ops towards simpler, more accessible game play.
• Magic: The Gathering - the first CCG, and a phenomenal market success due to the sales pitch of "your own personal arms race against your friends"
• Settlers of Cataan - the game which started the euro-invasion of 'murican game groups.
• Mafia / Werewolf These early traitor games pit numeric superiority against informational advantage and are hugely popular on many internet forums. This genre continues to grow with recent titles including The Resistance: Avalon and Two Rooms and Boom
• Carcasonne - a hybrid of tile placement and what later became known as worker placement. This was the euro that confirmed that the Euro-invasion was not a one-hit-wonder.
• Citidels an early game in the Hidden Role genre.
• Dominion - the most well known deckbuilder, responsible for establishing the genre. On the downside, it has far more than it's share of fans who are both loathsome and delusional, so I recommend playing any other deckbuilder instead.
• Ogre Designer's Edition. Notable both for the amount raised on Kickstarter and for the physical weight of the box.

Now, the new and popular games Josh recommends, starting with the shameless plugs:

• Darkest Night written by a Denner. Buy this or he will say mean things about you on the internet
• Morels This heavily thematic game uses set collection mechanics to evoke the feel of mushroom foraging and is beautiful. On the downside it is 2-player only. The designer is also a really nice guy.
• Vici Ben's 2-player Roman battles game is pretty cool. If he sells enough, he'll buy me a beer.
• Pandante Is in my sig because Sirlin makes great games -- Sure he's a smug, condescending asshole in most of his interactions with other people - but you would not be asking for game suggestions on this particular forum if you did not value design over courtesy. If you don't want to wait for the KS campaign to end and publishing and shipping to happen, you can just buy the Print and Play off of Sirlin's site now.
• Speaking of Sirlin Games, there's that one my name is attached to: Puzzle Strike. My level of obsession with this particular deckbuilder is a level that I have only previously hit with RPGs and MtG. I have posted book length guides and more to the strategies involved in this game.

And then newer games I like, but don't have any sort of vested interest nor personal stake in their success:

• Dixit - last year's Sphiel de Jahr Winner. A game about communicating with only some people at the table. Teachable in under a minute and my current gateway game for playing with non-gamers.
• Hanabi - this year's Sphiel de Jahr Winner. A co-op built around the idea of playing against hidden information, which neatly sidesteps the common co-op problem of players bossing other players around.
• Love Letter - a wonderfully minimalist game that goes from dull and simplistic at 2 players to a surprisingly deep strategic game of card-counting and cock-blocking with 3 or more.
• Get Bit! Sharks and pirates. Destructable pirates who you rip limbs off of in the course of this game about reading your opponents
• Tsuro A bit pricey, and a bit simplistic, this game of path following is gorgeous and easy to play with groups of up to 8
• King of Tokyo Richard Garfield reinvents Yahtzee with a Kaiju battle theme. The existence of both point and elimination victories makes this interesting and often makes for tense finishes.
• Sentinels of the Multiverse A comic geeks game for gamer geeks. In this co-op you play a superhero represented by a unique deck allied with other players playing other hero decks and opposed by an archvillan's deck and confounded by an environment deck. It's like a superhero RPG, with the chargen and setup out of the way, and you're just having the dramatic fight scene. Do not even try to play this with non-gamers.
• Liar's Dice a game that just requires a mess of d6s and cups to roll them in. This is easy to teach and a great filler game.
• No Thanks! this lightweight game is highly affordable and the simple rules give rise to some very interesting emergent properties and a strategy that is as much about probability as it is about reading the other players' risk tolerance.

Bang!: The Bullet and it's Chinese clone Sanguo Sha (3 Kingdoms Killers)

If you're looking for boardgame recommendations look no further than http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/

Beware though, you'll need a strong will or a large wallet...

You guys are the best, thanks.

edit: A not on Go. I own it and love it, it's just difficult to find someone that's interested enough to play with.
My 8 year old will entertain the notion with me for a while on occasion.

ubernoob wrote:I played this with my uncle and my younger cousin (around age ten) when I was a teenager. Pretty streamlined and friendly for all ages. It's like 4E without the rules arguments about durations.

A gateway drug into RPGs. I even remembered "roleplaying" between battles with friends and family, which when I discovered the (expensive) AD&D books was an inevitable seque.

I'd offer additional votes for Pandemic and Dominion. They're the games we play the most.

I also like Seven Wonders. It takes a bit to explain if you've never played a drafting game, but once everyone knows the rules, games are typically resolved in around 30 minutes.

The Ankmorpork Discworld game is my current favourite.
I'm also a fan for formula D, which is my boardgame experience for non gamers.

I'm surprised Josh didn't mention this in his wall of fire text, but just about everything from Cheapass Games is worth getting. Tijuana Death Match ($7), Unexploded Cow ($25 I think?), and Fish Cook ($15) are all pretty good.

They're generally inexpensive with less replayability than a standard game, but for beer and pretzels I'd say it's pretty ideal.

Also, I second Sentinels of the Multiverse. Absolutely fantastic game.

Diplomacy was a board game first, I think. It just lends itself to play by mail/email/whatever. It's also asymmetrical, and was apparently Kissinger's favorite game.

...You Lost Me wrote:I'm surprised Josh didn't mention this in his wall of fire text, but just about everything from Cheapass Games is worth getting. Tijuana Death Match ($7), Unexploded Cow ($25 I think?), and Fish Cook ($15) are all pretty good.

They're generally inexpensive with less replayability than a standard game, but for beer and pretzels I'd say it's pretty ideal..

Cheapass / James Earnest Games didn't quite fit into any of my above categories, as they aren't quite classics, and aren't quite new and I don't have personal connections with anyone who profits from them but yeah, they are worth their own category.

The following Cheapass games are most definitely worth having, especially if you can get them for the paper-bottom prices that they first sold for:

• Lord of the Fries - this card game about putting together funny-sounding meals in hell's fast food joint seems light but is strategically as deep as Hearts.
• Brawl - now available as a free print and play, this card game rendition of a fighting game is the correct answer to "which is better Yomi or BattleCON?"
• The Big Idea - a hilarious game of pitching absurd products to venture capitalists. Great for the first 3 plays . Sadly short enough on the possible combinations that replays get stale quickly if you don't have the expansion. And sadly there is a playing-to-win investment strategy that does not jibe with the feel of the game.
• Witch Trial - a fun game that does a surprisingly good job of simulating the feel of a serious courtroom drama, without at all being a serious game.
• Kill Doctor Lucky - the game that put Cheapass on the map. The turn-stringing mechanic was brilliant.
• The Very Clever Pipe Game - a vicious little brain burner of a pipe connection game, that has the novel idea of allowing players to claim the backgrounds as well as the pipes.
• Starbase Jeff - A very unique gambling game with a theme about fly-by-night contractors cutting corners while building a space station. The mechanics involve a mix of card counting, spatial reasoning and reading opponents.
• Button Men - James Earnest's attempt at a collectible game, and the marketing angle was kind of skeezy, but the fundamental dice battle mechanics are great and you can pull the needed stats for just about all the characters off of ter interwebs nowadays and play with the stacks of dice you already have.
• Parts Unknown - I've only played this clever microeconomics simulator about selling parts to Dr. Frankenstein and cornering the market by buying out the other players once. But I have very much wanted to play it again for the decade since.
• Deadwood Studios USA - the revised Kickstarter edition does a lot to fix the problems of rank being a detriment and working as an extra being the one true path to victory that plagued the original.

Josh_Kablack wrote:[*]Button Men - James Earnest's attempt at a collectible game, and the marketing angle was kind of skeezy, but the fundamental dice battle mechanics are great and you can pull the needed stats for just about all the characters off of ter interwebs nowadays and play with the stacks of dice you already have.

Skeezy? I know I've been interested in playing the game with more people, but they tend to get to turned off by the lack of physical pieces.

Don't get me wrong, it was just an attempt to cash in by being "collectible", and without the added layers of manipulation that are really common in such endeavors (randomized booster packs, etc), and I fully understand that Mr. Earnest deserved to cash in a bit. I'm just a little resentful at how easily I was sucked in to multiple such things back in the day.

But that's irrelevant now, as if you need physical pieces, you can just print out character cards from the cheapass website.

So I'm trying to find a game that two people who are both into money (one's a banker, the other's a CPA) would enjoy*. I didn't see anything geared toward that on the list... Did I miss something? Are there other suggestions?



*Not Monopoly.

Acquire is the other mass-market money game and spent decades being the Not-Monopoly, pretty much until Settlers of Cattan jumped into the mass market and became the new not-monopoly. Sadly Settlers is about production, valuation and trade, but not directly about money, so it probably doesn't work for you.

However, if they would enjoy more gamer-complex games, and/or really like trains you might consider any of 18xx Railroad games about building a corporate empire.

@Maj:
Hotel maybe?

With a few minutes to think more, Intrigue is a remarkably pure game about balancing deal-making and deal-breaking in order to end with the most money. It's probably ideal for accounting / business types.