Drunken Review: Shadowrun 5

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codeGlaze
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Post by codeGlaze »

OgreBattle wrote:Can insects awaken?
Do plants awaken? Like getting treants and mandragora
Yes, insects can awaken.

The wiki also says this about plants...
Plants in the 6th World - awakened, mutated, genetical altered or artificial created by genetech:
So I would assume it's possible, no examples are given, though.
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Post by Username17 »

There was a rant at the start of the Paterson's Guide about how there were actually a fuck tonne of awakened mayflies and shit that were scientifically interesting but in no way threatening. There are only a couple of awakened arthropods that anyone seems to care about. There's a mantis the size of a man, and crawdaunt. Other than that, you just have multi-colored ants and invisible moths and shit.

As far as plants go, we have those shitty vampiric trees of course. But we also have that dual natured ivy that makes it hard for astrally projecting magicians to get into buildings that have cultivated it around the outside. I think there was a moss that attacked astral travelers as well. And then there's the plants that stabilize astral space that Ares keeps on their war sattelite. And there's the special marijuana grown underwater that transports you to the astral plane when you smoke it. Probably a couple of other things. I think I remember a flytrap like plant that would attack humans, but I could be conflating a D&D monster book for that one. In any case, the man eating trees were certainly a thing, I didn't drink enough to forget that one (unfortunately). So plants that are dangerous to humans because of their awakened properties is certainly a thing.

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Post by TarkisFlux »

Catalyst should make a splat where you all play awakened dogs and go on runs against animal control to place awakened pups with sympathetic families. Call it 'Found Puppies' or something.

Maybe another one where you plant awakened plants to defend yourself from wave after wave of blank eyed street thugs or wage slaves or whatever. Call it 'Green vs Zombies' maybe.

I mean, it's not like these splats wouldn't be up to the high quality bar they've already set for themselves.
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Post by Stahlseele »

i had an idea for a shadowrun/MLP crossover . .
Equestria is a Meta-Plane. A WORLD MADE FROM MAGIC. Can't really explain it away otherwise at all <.<
As the Magic Level in the 6th World rises, the ambivalent Magic Level in Equestria falls.
Meaning magic works less and less. This is not limited to Unicorns and Alicorns, but affects Pegasi and Earth-Ponies as well.
The Pegasi have to settle on the ground, which leads to strife about living space. The Eartheners magic starts failing, so they can't reliably produce enough crops for the population.
Queen Crysalis knows that should the ponies die from hunger, her Changelings will die as well, because they feed on the ponies love.
So she convinces Celestia, Luna, Cadence and Twilight to use the Mirror to cross into the 6th world to search for Magic/Sustenance that will help them save all of their Races.
They cross over into our world and possess their 6th World Counter-Parts. Kinda like Insect/Shedim Spirits. Only more well meaning. The Problem with this should become appearant immediately.
The SHADOWRUN VERSIONS of Pegasis, Earth-Pony and Unicorn, as well as changelings, are not herbivore, but carnivorous. Imagine having to suddenly hunt and eat something you killed yourself.
Something you never ever would consider anybody being able to do. Aside from the monsters from the Everfree Forrest of course. So, it's either you become something akin to our concept of a cannibal . .
Or you starve to death trying in vain to find something that will save your Home Planet!



don't look at me like that ._.



th other idea was to have a rigger/AI and go with SR robotics for quadruped drones to make a modern day Pony Express.
if you want to play on the wild side of society, you can opt to drop to shapeshifters.
they are factually not humans that can change into animals but animals that can shift into human for for some reason.
Last edited by Stahlseele on Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by A Man In Black »

Stahlseele wrote:i had an idea for a shadowrun/MLP crossover . .
NOPE.
I wish in the past I had tried more things 'cause now I know that being in trouble is a fake idea
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Post by Ancient History »

Too late for that.

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Post by A Man In Black »

You know what goes great with cynical near-future science fiction about the inevitability of corruption and the nature of humanity?

PASTEL PONIES FOR CHILDREN, OBVIOUSLY
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Post by Stahlseele »

Yeah, that first idea is a bit more on the dark side, i'll freely admit that.
It came to me after reading some stories on fimfiction . . seriously, there's stuff on there after which i go to read some warhammer 40k to cheer me up x.x
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by A Man In Black »

Have you considered reading things that don't involve licensed properties?
I wish in the past I had tried more things 'cause now I know that being in trouble is a fake idea
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Post by Username17 »

Section.11: Street Gear

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[/img]
This game has a lot of guns, and they are game mechanically different and no one cares.

This is the chapter for all the gear, not just stuff that is remotely “street.” Unless you regularly take military helicopters onto the mean streets of the 80s movie town that you apparently live in. What's really odd of course is that some gear like cyberware scanners and nerve gas are actually described in some other chapter. And then there's the matrix equipment described in the matrix section, the magic equipment described in the magic section, and the rigging equipment described in the rigging section. So this chapter is all the gear that isn't instead located in one of five other chapters.

Shadowrun has historically had a gear system that was “minutiae oriented” and rather over-detailed. Really, this goes back to Dungeons & Dragons, where characters were expected to go on adventures where individual supplies would be in short supply. This made a lot more sense in that context, both because the default assumption was an extended camping trip in a wilderness full of enemies, and because the ambient tech level was low enough that you could plausibly write down all the non-unique pieces of equipment you had access to. In the cyberpunk future, that mentality doesn't serve us terribly well. Do you have a set of jumper cables in your car? What about some spare batteries? A jug of water? Bungee cords? A roll of duct tape? Maps of the greater Seattle area? Road flares? Blankets? Condoms? Wire cutters? Bandaids? This shit could be important, but it's basically a shopping trip to Outdoor World away and honestly isn't worth tracking most of the time. Worse, the amount of things you could plausibly need or want on a mission is so amazingly large that there was never any way that the authors of the book could ever write it all up.

So basically, every edition of Shadowrun has had a really weird equipment list that is oddly specific about some things and equally oddly silent about other things. So there will be entries and rules for rappelling gloves and wire clippers, but no mention of duct tape or liquid nitrogen. There has always been vast lists of potentially available ninja equipment, but the rubric for getting it into the book has always been “someone thought of it when they were close enough to a keyboard to write it up and submit it to the book.” There has never been any system to any of this, and while the amount of equipment you need to do your job is very very large, good luck finding any of it, because the categories of presented equipment never made a whole lot of sense.

Obviously, this is a portion of the game which is extremely ripe for a major overhaul. Equipment could abstracted in one of a million different ways. We could have things placed into various equipment “kits,” perhaps a level 1 burglary kit comes with some cutting and smashing implements and a santa sack, while a rating 3 burglary kit gets you specialist shit like glass cutters and vapor sprayers to reveal laser tripwires. Or maybe you'd want to set up some sort of “mission preparation” thing where people chose tools for jobs from caches rated in value and legality. Or whatever. But regardless of what you do, this chapter is really a place to show off your game design chops, because the 1970s system of tracking equipment is badly out of whack for characters who live in a futuristic consumer society and are expected to have apartments, storage lockers, and cars with trunks.

So naturally, the core functionality of this chapter is exactly the same as what we were spooned up in 1989, just with different stuff. This goes back to the awful awful archetypes. For fuck's sake, the “Brawling Adept” is a character who is really supposed to run around and kick people for the most part, and she still has 13 separate pieces of equipment. And that's not even counting horseshit like arrows and backup throwing knives, all of which are fucking itemized. And the other characters are almost all much, much worse. The “Tank” archetype has 30 separate gear purchases. Seriously. Thirty. And neither of those fucking characters apparently has a car, a skateboard, or even a bus pass. It's not just that their equipment lists are ridiculously long, it's that the available equipment is so numerous that it's hard to even imagine going through it all in three or even five passes and not leaving something extremely major out. There isn't even any real advice.

Image
Where's Xander Cage when you need him?

If you were going to do one fucking thing about Shadowrun's insane book keeping nightmare, you could at least stop tracking individual bullets in the magazines of fully automatic weapons. I mean, holy fucking shit, are we really trying to do this? Yes we are. But if the authors of 5th edition aren't trying to woo us with actually making Shadowrun's lumberingly dinosaurish equipment system into something even vaguely workable, what are they attempting to justify their continued use of oxygen with? Well the main idea they have is to go forward with their whole “carrot” idea. The idea is that items will have “wireless” abilities abilities that are plastered on them that will encourage you to turn on the wireless to get the bonuses. This in turn will ensure that there will be wireless devices turned on that hackers can interact with. So, did they manage to thread the delicate needle of actually creating incentives for people to turn on wireless devices that provide combat useful targets for hackers to attack despite the fact that the act of turning on the wireless devices provide useful targets for hackers to attack?

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[/img]

This is one of the most half assed attempts to do things I've ever seen. First of all, not every device even has wireless functionality improvements. They appear on audio enhancements, but not on audio devices on the same damn page. Secondly, if your goal was to avoid accusations of unrealisticness by telling people that they arbitrarily couldn't drop out, you'd sort of need to make all your wireless bonuses pass the smell test. At least, that's what I would think. If there is any reason why being currently connected to the internet makes your lockpicks get a bonus, I don't know what it is. A hazmat suit can send me chemical analysis wirelessly, but I'm physically wearing it, why can't it send me the same information via USB? And thirdly, there are an awful lot of devices whose wireless bonuses are nearly or wholly useless during confrontations, thus rendering the entire thing pretty much moot. So before we even cycle back to the thing where I genuinely have no idea how wirelessly hacking a hazmat suit or a lockpick is supposed to be a thing that competes for actions with pulling the trigger on a sub machine gun, or the thing where the hacking system itself is nonfunctional nonsense, the entire “carrot” system is DOA. It looks like they gave up on it before completing even a single a draft. And then they included their half-assed notes for the abandonware project in the book because go fuck yourself.

Shadowrun weaponry was, as previously mentioned, originally written by people who may well have thought guns were cool, but clearly didn't know anything about them. Over the various editions, they have changed what the rules were pretty severely. But one constant is that guns have been a collection of “features” that do... things. There is honestly not a whole lot of connection between what the features do on real guns and what they do in the game. But getting the right collection of features has been pretty much what the gun selection minigame is all about. You can also add features to guns for money, but the basic reality is that features have a tendency to be “better” or “less better” meaning that while the gun lists go on for a long time and use a lot of ink, only a few of the weapons on there ever get used by real player characters. None of these issues were tackled at all in SR5. Instead they introduced the whole “accuracy” stat, which interacts with Limits in the horrible, horrible ways we talked about earlier. This is genuinely the worst weapon list of any edition, which is impressive.

Image
For reasons too stupid to fully explain, that adjustable stock has been very powerful and useful in many editions. Guns with well balanced solid stocks have not enjoyed similar benefits. Because go fuck yourself.

One major change from SR4 is that they've made the whole bullshit “one attack limit” crap. And to compensate for that, they've jacked up the damage codes a lot. This trivializes armor and body like you wouldn't fucking believe. A fragmentation grenade does 18 base damage, which you would expect to soak if you were rolling... 54 dice. Needless to say, this isn't in the range of things that could possibly ever happen. The entire soak step is basically a waste of time. It's impossible for me to believe that they playtested any Orks in combat at all. They are so underwhelming that's it's ridiculous.

You can't talk cyberpunk without throwing some cyberware around. Well, you actually can, but we're not doing any Phillip K. Dick shit right now (awesome as that could be). We're doing Gibson ripoffs, so the cyberware is mandatory. Anyway, way back in the day, the basic idea was that an Essence point was worth about a stat point of anything else, so you'd pay half an Essence for a situational +1 to a stat like Strength or Body. This was extremely shitty, and the original cyberware like Dermal Plating and Muscle Replacement was garbage that people only took when they didn't know any better. There was stuff worth taking, but I think that speed enhancement and sensory mods were good just because the authors massively undervalued taking extra actions and not getting surprised in a game where people shot guns at each other on a regular basis rather than any conscious decision to create branches of cybernetic enhancements that weren't a dog's breakfast.

As the game went on, the basic shittiness of most of the original cyberware was recognized, but for whatever reason simply going back and errataing the crappy stuff was considered off the table. The decision was instead to present the needed power creep as additional items that happened to be way better than the shit in the basic book. I don't know why. I ran into the same bullshit with cyberlimbs. The basic cyberlimb in SR4 was a terrible joke, and when I offered to fix it I was told by the developers that for some reason we “couldn't” and that is why there are those overly complicated “advanced” cyberlimb packages in Augmentation instead of just a paragraph of new cyberlimb stats such that you'd ever actually use one. And after a few rounds of timid incremental powercreep (better hand razors!), they just gave up and gave cyborgs a whole extra set of Essence to buy additional body upgrades with called “Body Index.” It didn't actually make any sense, but the long and the short of it was that mods cost too damn much and they'd already let Magicians initiate to get more power, and fucking fuck the Street Samurai needed some higher level toys to play with. This bizarre state of affairs struggled on for a few editions, and in SR4 they admitted that it would probably be better if Bioware cost Essence. But people had characters who wouldn't survive a direct change like that, so they made a weird rule where your Essence loss for whichever was lower of your Cyber- or Bio-ware mods was halved. That really made no sense and was annoying accounting, but it kept established characters from having their souls explode on edition change, and people grudgingly accepted it. As far as I can tell, that rule has been removed from SR5. Although I have no idea whether it's because they are tired of supporting long played characters who have a lod of mods or if it's because they just forgot to mention the rule in any place you might actually find it.

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hBUk5h4xyruFw5tpcEyGlgII5HqKbbwx7MJ7p7MjXl3qEFu5InEIQNxMSOlW57Bx0cHDn7A6P2oO2Y7eVO4Ngm965nzKdJJjajcTjsqllBcFogMTyHOo8DxAOcuVlYCTJJ3Ijejuk4sCjFNB+ZefaejqB8CK7WVxlmbjnMR3jz8aVFaS+wPU9F+8SjOwDAsIGx5aUJw7DvbF0FYObQMY0M/CuW4/09okSQVg89TRmPUtbdVWZJA1934n+RS8YG5yORpiVVSSfdM6ZaczACWiO0MyJG53HOqnhPCrlu4HfbUbzrFWyFXErJBeRttOs0JJJ4DFtrILbt2nJAFonU7Gtv7LWA1gCNM50H9iGslOUBmYLM/tXnI+lab2Y4qi2wmbMSxIVZZiMqDNA2GnvGB40k7cXQypPJqltEHXnt/OtJbZz93l96ifFcqnwQL6MfsD/msDTWWWsMsqATAknptRD2yV1PKpLLKBAFPfwqZNvJWYbBC33i/gPDX57VQe1t2411EVSQASPE8/DSr/AIxcKIzAzBBihsjXi8KWAygqBrLTLQTqFAA8z4Vv/Hi5SU+SE3SKTA27Vq2o7QdrcLEtBItqpiQAJZi0hfEE9CAL7IWyorFgYJJEk68hJJn56VouKYGyloDJbF0gByGKxA7w0YfDrVJwrECxdm2EDMQM3vZRtoNxvqQZr00kZrCbPBmAKsO9lBI005QT11Mx9qp7tosTBiGbTkYMCtfhHyFzc77BsrAfGQTyiNeUiYrH3bZa9e7IkqGuEbQQCTz30jQf++Xs5GkwWItnDLbua5H1Vh+3KRmkaadog0PKaXswf1CQTlWcs9CSFn0rO4fit1IaBDRBI02yyDuJGh5aa8qMt8ZKwxTsywBkRBE8xHUHcVPUi6e0MfZofaDiWZxbXluR1I+wPz8K6bRVUERz1EmRt8DVTw85ruZyBqDJI1J93bTx9K1dpOsHppWDWl40ol4q8gmKwrGCvMa+InTf1p2CXvP10+lS38UAYj5GNpjQfyKVojUjcgTr0rG5txpl1HskY5TuYP1/9T8KjYhiDPdGv93+KbfQsD0Gp8Y5fzyrt6x8KTFDCvYhTpvrVf8A6jMxyjeZ+EUYwiozc0iOtGLSCUFxyLd22pMhWJ8wI+wryr2ZbS5IWOpPgY0r1ridxl7SE0ykk7br1rxThHDLlzMV2Gp1r19JbotvujJN01Xs2I3H9n3FB3HsnL/9RMAaqZn0NGJcXNGshNR5xEU1LJjkAAJ0Hj18BSLBZ5A+I3jZtymVSHHuzB086j4Rfa4GuHLmLqCeceHXWKIxuHF9CBcX3gWPTlsKpcNY7PEqgbMMw1GxqsUnFrslJtSX0WGJwlvO36o3NdqTG2kznuDl9PGuUEwtZ4JbhHZqAhUB10Pmamt4pi10kEqrqIX6DpNcM3EUqNyrROwzHrU4RJYqJIYTB/drvt4VNsokA2brKW/SuHvEj1Hj61YJh1A0VR7p8eu8fGhijaBUJ3ks8ePI1FZa40RaEHmbh/NF5OWBvEuGO1oqveJYt5CJ+Aq49g2IV1jWE15/uEeWlZ8cV/U7Ps9Zj3mNWXYOcNjEsqTcK2lCoCSP1O9HPaaok62v/ZRJtXuX+wejWMNpPKrPD29INYn/AIZcJuWMIxvZkZ3kW2kFRtmjlO/oK2JxuU+8D5ivO141NxTs0Qk5RsPt3RzOoHxo0HMARtVPZx2kwDz0B+sUQvGJ3Q/zziobQNOwbi9yIHLyqhweJZbrMrEHK2o3PgOh1q241iM2RUXVjpPXYD6/KhOFHs2uu6CUCwIOUkzB+U16H41pWJqRtFnx26q2kl+zhB3dQJOuw33NYu7jUzTmU69Br6bVNjMV2rZn77k7dPtVRibKuYW2VI6mBtPly+dbk7ZDZtRob4z22YuCdPAyFPvA9VjUEzkPhNThsOykNpkadSRzBDCDz22nah+HqzEohPPQ8hEfc0XlY2ltAmRcaT0QxqD57+njRTzQrWDrFAiq97VdgqSRMc2Zeg3q74RZtQt1bhu21TI6m3BQEzJAYzv8PKh8Jx1cMyoloRGp66TuAZPiamx8WcRcfDns1dO8BoADDERt+0iPzXOpKhMoLxdpCLS2lARmJgCNRA1+JqztO11QVIUgkEH4R6VBaw2liP2iSYOwAkDpPjVqQGUgGAfeYGDr49a8qclVI0xvk5atNM5tNOXh/D60PftZSBJ8SeVGKrZtNVA3nvE9doIoHiDgtb6anwMfw1lrJZMOtEERHLTSJHhUM91dJ0H0plnFZiMqmAfe5HQ86lBMDT50rOojaxO4iorgA5c/8feiLt5j+35ihb6sOXMc/GgcvZU8VQmWmBl1U/u3+NeMezzkFiEZhEGPEV7Dxw/1DXKYgjTXy+leSezgOV4Use7GsD5GvX0U1pWQlmZoMMgbvFMp27w123OkU18JqSDoEIj+c6GdrgYr2QJG8XD+aHx/EDZjNbGonRz+a5RbeCjkkskXDMCyC6jiCcunmflRNrDWrbGLLkhhDb7HWPOpRdGVWbKmcA6lpgHbXyoh70OBB7zIAddNCfnFFybYFFJAWNPfPp9BSqa/g3YyFkEDX0FcrkwNOyfDWiltdpCgHvQDBn15UjeOU5VUMTPviD5xUONvOGthADmJkEDYDqac995J7FY8xS12PfQrN67PfyAQfdbWeW5oPF4NmVj2lwuphRET11FFcRUQBKgh000mNOniflXMZiShUhSwzvKidfOKZPOBX7Ir7izaRlQZiRObeTz8KL4Z7RJhMQTfBm4oAZBIUzOomeY26ULhMX2rFWtZQAT35MmPrVT7RZe0tlhIEEgNEiF011q2lBTbjIlqS2pSR63wrjiXlmzdDjmAeXiDqPWs9e4zjm4scIl62tthnXPbU9yMxWQsk6MN/wBu9O9kzw21iJtOpe4rFRmnKInJqYEDkddDVf7bjEtxPDthcwlV7JlUFUZgQ4zAHT9xDTuTGtZ46cfI4112h5ybin76PTy2WR0qO2JqswYcKM91rrfuYhVk+CqoAHxPjVnhCQN685x2mroixiEOhG4VyPP+GguBYI3C+adW576Dx86t8Vhc4DDdToP6hzX5aUFwvima7d66HX4fTLWrRfxFeUWF/gFpVIkDT1rJ8Wwae6jEmdddAKtcbeZiQTvt/Pl61VX+7V1LOAqDSywn2d4VlS4/Mj5Cq50ytP8AST8/tpVtgeOLYtiYZrgMD+kAkfEn7VVXrwaTIk65Z1jrTpu7ZNpVRwXCT3LRczoBuD5bkU/sXZLnaGLj5AlvUwA0memhP+K5YXUEVcYvEtcRC69QG2afA9NdjIqm9WZnFos8Ul7KqqBEAEA7GPpXbaFVIYQTEkeB0+3wo7AXMwBEwQIkyfjzot7A515c21j6LRkimw7sBBMamIzaeMAwf886FvCUTWR3xEa7kx6xV02DE7nlpUWLww0Hn9qlu7KpoZhxlQDODpTw5ioXwsLA0nT46VBiLZLBF5iZOwA/nhSVYQ1rkg6/L/ND3WJABPMemu1Csrho2A5z9o61HdulSIY9fl/kUygdQ3iLEI/9p+leKezty4A+XJEiZaDXsGOxb5G1Gx+leSezUZXmANd/7dK9D8dVB/ojqL5otMTYLtBuOqsCYABAjxBJ3qHh+FhXLqSyzlLbZYPI+Qp9kkWRG/ZmI/uqH/5VjA7FhIgkz5E71ZXVIDq7Y1uIObIuFbZUaBeY1+VP4fi3vlWIUKjCeugIHyNH3GtoGBCBZjnlmB11puECAdzJB3Czy6z50NyrgNO+Q6yzKAFYADrcg/DlSrN4rit0OwUIQCQO6KVHxM7yr2WpQs1t1BKgtJjw/wAUFwjEQl3MdM0TExIPr8Kl7Qvat3C0EtqOsmiMa4tpcZcqtJiBoY8D50PR3seGRjIynWPcA/bPpT8pMgFhNwiV1O/Ic6puFcTuXLgVojU6CNYq4u2SQRMfqbgjmeXWhKLi6YYyUlaBXsPr+tcj+z/FUntOveTnp0HQdQa0GGtZSSDcMgjVh4jnWe9qrffTWNPsPGtP4z+f6IfkL4FTh7rIwZCVZTIIgEHzy0bj+MvdKnJbtssS1pFtlj/U2VRJ8oqrKDl3j/Ok05bPh85rftTdmGz0H2Z/4hEKExAd30Csq5i/mBGviN/r6HgcSWUMwKE65NCR5kGJ8Na8r/4eY61buOjBVZh3bjHXl3PDmdN456VuP/kixhDlX+rmfTkPrXl6+gnOkqPQ0tSoW2aHGcbFtY949J0HmfsKpOC8XL4lzA7ysdPMVT8UxRIA9KZ7P4ns8QhbQHQ/8wj8UVoRhF0Bajckbmxh8xZjsv1oG/w3M0nQfaf5pV1g7igEfKgrtxixCZdNyToPzWTg3brAuJ2FyALbChRoefmetVObXajuJXnG9weQHy1oTCamMw8iNKonixWuiXD6Gp8RiIXyDx58vrUl/DkFQVXXofsaG4j3QR4HXzpVK2SksFRw72lxFmAtwlR+1tR5a6j0rX8I9ukuELeXsyf3TKnz5r9K867TWi0grtrWyelGXKMibR7EzAjSI5RQ2IbUVk/YbjROawxmNUnl1A+vxrV4h9U8TFeNr6ThKjTpuxEZj4VAtjKxO5I6DSPSZkmrFwACRrpOo8KrTc1mdv56UlbR07IcQ4kaECNcwj+R1oa5hgxlT4VaBwRrQOOt90jkZnyPl50Ex0ebf8R+PXsMFtoQBdDd8asIiQBIy7jXX0rJ+zDKVcGJ31UHYeNTf8RcNbs3rdqyuREtDQE7s7EkkyTtVNwjiLoCFiDE6V7sNP8A4VRhc35cmzXQiNO5y8xQ9yw+kXbgkA+7O/2opU1G3udR1HwoJMLt3nJgE94AfPyrMjUyPFMqW/1ZuDPrIgzFRcK7PO7oCqkhQsev2qbjlpnQwCSXGkgnbnFVvCsTctuLJEBmBYHeqxVwdEm6mgjE8PuZ27h3J+JrlEYuwwdovHfp+daVcpezmlfBK+HC2UTMDDKJH9xopbyszgAQrgS0c9+RjlQ962oRcoABddtjqRPyqdcHGeSpDsGIO/l8qmyivois4kGQSgyuegMRU+Hw2VR3s0EESo2J11+FCOltfeFoE8oJ+hqQcVXbtF5ad7ltz5VzV8BTrkH4piri2ZEoQ0CNJXr86ouMXsy22ZjJU8zrt01rS/8AyaHul0PhDHXbbrWY9pbWUoOgPKOnI1q/GdSqjN+RxdgCuI+gA+3pTrYZ2CqpljA0kk/Sobew8x9TXofsV7KlP1XH6jSRIP6azv5wdfOOtbpT2oxpWL2e9kuyGZ4Lncgbf7R92rQX1FtY0HWrGVUeWw+5qhxd2TWVtt5LJUDOczTyFC3jzo64oC/Oq24+nrXBPRMDcPYrdUkoyww3KNz8x49KCd2Zjkbf50P7I8Ryr2Z2YSB4/wCRUmOsm0Sy+706V50lUqPRhJ7bHXuGsBLHWq8NlqR+IEjU0Mbgp0n2FtBP+uJ5zTLgLz8/xUKAmjmAS03WDQlUeBeUZTJFGYFuXjUQ1UVyy8GtxgLLhuJ7DFo06ZgD5E616bjm9z+8fT/FeU4rVh41sMH7So1tFuNldCNSNGgaGeUiKw/lablTRbSecmx7POpHh1iqvFYVrZ11HhTMPxSR3SG8jNOa+GBLHbpXnPimsmhJp+hqXvD7ULfutqCQAemv8+FLHY9bNp7rnuopY84AGw+lY72e9qLuNzv2PZWxorZ5zHTSCByOpptPSlJOXSG3JOit9rLGAuYlbd3tGvsAv6Z0U6lc8GBqTsCQDqKyHs1eClh3QCp3jeNNTtXrWIthbbMVXMVIzZRm2/qia8l9n0TK5YJAjVhP0r0dKV6bWcGecamng0FmwCxYPIIAIADDQefWk7uJEaZNSBGoBgD41Bb4giaB0XnADDXad6ceKKP/ANiCR0bb40tMraAeD4+4yXJYkiIJ5a/KnWOFt2vaPdQsGE/T5UYoBLMsd7LAVSBoZp74a2WMqsyu4MknfWfCnc8uhFHCsFxx759PoKVcxnvnyX/tFKuXBz5CsCwW0maIyga8jP4mn9ugV2LBxMxuRvsK5iseEygkjNpp6bz8aY+Mtgx2v0/8aSm8j2lg7h+IW2MINYO6Ry8aEu4m6i50sgKm5MHXff40Vi3ZQCCfeUGQI19KbdKKYYKA7sCTMaeAImmVfQH/AGBnBIhW/cbUkGFEjy61ziHAruLYPaXuy3eYAAHTSCSx9AaJuC3eAthx3de6CYjb51b28OzooDEktlA6nKgHlV9GVSshqx+IH7P+xFu2/aXLna9mQYCBUz8hrJYg68vnXoeGwGS1LCGaSZ3A5DwqHhHDFACgg27Zlj/U3SfPXy0ovH8SQ6BuXeY8v8/OrNt5IJVwUOO7tVMjtAvM/XkKI4njAxOXb+fCq1F1JkKQuYFjvJ0A+e/SggskN8Zjm5hh5aGPnVWFMAnbl4/mr/AcPt9t3znGYdz+oE+80bA/0/beo4pczXbh/wBxgdByAjkBpRAWnCLvdB6E1fnF5h6a1l+CXNCPUVdWzArDqr5HpaOYg163BpW0mnYhpNPtaV27B23JNbtUzi9yLZHM0UlVnFbu/wAKSPymhp4iVWCaVI6VEW71RqsCRTGua16B5obdf3aIMkSN42/n83qvR/gDRdjEAUAj7HFQpGjA9QatML7UkaZ/Rh9/81RYg5W2lW18uo/nWm5VPOKWWnGXKGUmjV38dZxFpkvqWUicqsSGIOYDukHcDTavPOIe194Whh0s/wClAYZcpZWCBfd15zuw3irlFK9CKKe0l1crqGHRtR8DMUmnCEHxYZOUu6MFhfaTE2SW7R2lWWHZiNZEwTuNx6UZ7NYxFVgwknL+2eVXHEfYy0wJt9wwdIBG3Q+XWqz2XByvBPoByWelV1XBxtCaakpKy3xLOXIS0GYjRtI08KBGHOJBa4QvZysLvoPhyopLvcFxgCwQnp+7wrv+ptAEKyAuNhMkkeZ61lTa4NTSfJA+Nt5Fh3VVESFOuvPWpFx6XHt5JPeWdDGikbnmZqUcMXsjaztlBJmNeXKlwzBi0CASZMyVI/m4rrjRyUrDrV+2AA6oWG5M/Y0qr7vtMEYrnuCCRAiK7S+OX0Nvj9jsQv6tqerfSo+HYjtFuSBKkgQo6HwmfKnDEQiMiSpYwx3WTprXDgVtJdPfZc0nTKw/FHqhe7CMVhyx1LASNIUCQAeR8BTMRhg4gpnOcwJjUmhMBxJHYImadT3jP7TRzsQNACe0MA7HXnQaaYypqwOzaKElMOQYIkNWu9n8N+mGJhiSq9R3EzHw00noTWZsqSTmW3EHZ9ZirKzxF7dpQumpMxr7iafKq6buRHUXxNDxHifcCIStpSBmOhY8zJPmfAAeFUmI4kni+nkBz02HhPnVZeuFjLEnzNDs1aDNYXe4kzExoDOg8dPpUaXcsM3ePIH/ALiPoPtvxbWVQzDfb5akdI+NJE1zE677fOicWHBWnEL1Ykn4E1WYo/qN50fwG4f9QH/pk/KKCxiRcPnQOCMGu0bjUePhV1afSeXX+bUBaswB1FF2nj+EfSs2pk9HRjWGSuKlsmoywbwPJv8AyA+opvZMN9PGR9t6jVl3Fp4RPevRoKqsQSx8OVGFNCf55UO1U00kTnB9lS4hiKif6UTjLZDgndhP4+VC3x3jWpHny5Ospid6alTWbBOq/CuskEAiDzo2KNnSN+lRkU8DWaT3Jbf50G6HjHcyS25FT22kab9KCzRzHLn5f5pwnlOnzpLK+NfZadv3D5Gsn7NISjwWGvIDaNd60LPKT1XXzishwHiCWw05pOg6aiKDTcXRNNKSs1CYcABNxkO/MZpoI4EKQRhuhBDfCrEbj+z7ihcznL3LcQN2gx1is6bNDSFfDuurGyxbcz06jeo+H9oHZWfOq7N4kiovaBQLTRoM42M8utCcCxaAZDOYuCOmlOo3BsRyqdDMUvfb+5vrXKs8XiGDsOwG/l8ia5TKT/zFcUdVGGHtjUHMo+dGYmwGzIWI7xkA9dgdPCoMet233LqOWEXIlZA3A0MSZnfr0qJLrKzwCGZ1I7w08uvX1qfOU0aY6U3xF9dHcDw+0jZkzZgxUz5UZZdyO+CO+CdtSTp49dutAYUO0kM6yZ0AaeX7f5rVoL2nuty1hvX40J3eRVFxw1QDicetu3mC5oOU7bzrVfxq6Gso6K+d+hbSNNgY2AG1W2KwqXEylWAmdFO8fzWmYKwVRV1U5WAPMajWmjJRyuRJRbw+DIWMPfO4udf3V1MNdIBh9Zj3ta2VlbmhNxmEbFYka/KaFw1sk2DrlXMTAnmeVV8zI+BGYNi7OvakkE/u1inDDXjyuRHVvzWpuYdiV/UYFRoAswCaJwzFR3s7mdypGnTSu87OWgjGJbug6doCRO7bCo7T3Gk98xvqTW5LA6lWJgiYM6+lAWOHi0bmXNlKjUiNc1ctbGTnoU8GWU4gnTtY/wCapcl+SP1dBO7aVr7lu5maLrASDGWQNdNfOhsQpPagSWNtY6zQ819B8VdszLC8BM3Y33baulL/AC7U7c2rU3rJKZczKuVQe7uadh0ZSCz3HA/aVI+ld5Q+L2zKP2w37UDTm35qJ7t0NlPaT5t+a3DuCIKsf+U79daBxmAVri3FD5sw0jQAePxro632gS0X0zKX+2JgC6SDH7jXTYvQCRc10/drWyZXMZHKnO2wkkk6fSo7qsAmZi3fWDERvpHnNHzegeH2ZT/T3Zj9SQY0zelcFq6f/wCp1I1LVrMNaYF9WVjcBUxoBtM1Haw7albrwTOiaV3mO8JmBhL2krc3/wB35qG7nAzHPvEktvW/tvI2bluG6an460NiuHpcQKQw1kQNzHy13NGOrJ9AlpRXZiityAQLmo6t+a7Yw14zIubf7q2OHwzKgWcpCRPQ5unPY1LasvPeuswywJWJmY9JnpXeV/R3iX2YtLF2B/8AZ3ttW1o/gnC0JbtFcGJXlMDxq9w2GJ7FidFBmNd5gwPI065g2JB7RwVEAZNQIB9K6U5M6MIp2TW7j59u7lAU6eZ3pguqJG5ySJA2E/eKnsIUEOWY6mSDtsBA8T8qWQHcHURMHSTHT1is+1mjcq5KzDcRS8jlreiQcvUz4UBh7RbEK62yq5hpG1WWG4eLRfLmykJBYRPeHI/SjGw9wkxdYCZ93QRECesneqLDaiTeUmwPGuc516fQUqbjR3z6fQUqRIZvJkcVfafePMbnbM35PxqHt23zGRsZ2rtKvSSwYm3YfwnENLd5uXM+J+tHLiXn3m+JpUqhNKykW6H2sQ2Yd5t+pq8wfven3FKlWfVL6Q7DH/tH1NScLP6aea/Vq5SqTLIj4ixFpiNDFUD4l/6m+JpUqrpLBLV5OPiX/qb4mrPCsSqyZ86VKjqLAkOSwunv+qfeuYU/rN/aldpVE0dhBOi+QrM4rENmbvNueZpUqfS5E1eERDEvHvN8TRfD7zGZJO25pUqtNKmRi8ltb91f7x96juHuW/7l+prlKsy5NHRYsdD/AMn/AGmqXjN0hlgkacj40qVHT5O1P4lYuIYnVm+Jp9i+xcSx1PU0qVanwZUXmDGp8vuK7hzp/wAo+hpUqyGpEvDR+nb9Po1QcSMWiRpSpV1vcGltKF8Q39TfE0nxLf1N8TSpVrMhaYYyqzrtRznvn+5PoaVKskuTTHgCxnvnyX/tFcpUqdcCvk//2Q==[/img]
Best power creep book.

In any case, while a major edition change would be a great place to fix a bunch of the old cyberware that suffered from being “incredibly shitty,” this book basically elects to not do that. Muscle Replacement still costs a whole Essence point per level. Cyberlimbs are still shitty beyond belief. Actually, the Cyberlimbs thing really blows my mind, because they have the whole “customization vs. enhancement” thing from Augmentation. Do they not realize that that whole thing was an awful awful kludge erected just because we weren't allowed to rewrite things in the basic book? Do they not understand that with the creation of a new edition, they can change the basic book?! What the fuck?

So I promised a discussion on vehicles. And it's late, and I don't want to do it. But basically: the vehicle rules don't make any sense. Vehicles have Handling, Speed, and Acceleration. This is already too complicated, but on top of that, none of those numbers mean what you'd think they might mean. Speeds aren't in meters per second or miles per hour or any of that shit. They are simple single digit numbers that get compared to a crazy ass chart that is kindof exponential but doesn't follow any clear pattern. It goes from 12 KPH at speed 1 to Mach 5 at speed 10. Needless to say, there are ways to get numeric bonuses to your speed number, and then shit goes crazy. Super sonic motorcycles don't even require you to do strange things. Nonetheless, speed is just a simple dicepool modifier on chases. So if you're going mach 5, a guy who is pretty good at driving and make you eat his dust on a moped. And indeed, is quite likely to do so if you're a security goon who only rolls 6 dice base on driving vehicles. Acceleration doesn't actually make it take less time to get to maximum speed, it's a limit on how much you can add to your chase total on each round of a chase. It's... weird. None of this makes any sense and it's obvious that it wasn't playtested even a little bit.

Special shoutouts go to the worthlessness of soak in 5th edition. Remember how I said it would take 54 dice to soak a hand held explosive? Armored limosines only roll 30. Flying tanks only roll 36. You can take out military vehicles with hand held weapons, because this combat system is a joke.

-Username17
John Magnum
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Post by John Magnum »

Frank, be fair! Since Frag grenades have +5 AP, and positive numbers are a bad thing in this case, you actually only need to roll 49 dice to resist a hand grenade. And I only had to go three hundred pages away from the Hand Grenade entry to find out what the AP number means!
-JM
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Rawbeard
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Post by Rawbeard »

Wireless bonuses are great and if you don't use them it's only because you are scared of being hacked!

Yeah, I had that dropped on me. The smug asshole didn't even realize how stupid that is.
To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele »

It only further cements the superiority of magic again, because magic does not make you hackable at all . .
And to a certain extent, the superiority of bioware over cyberware, because no, fleshy bits still can not be hacked. no, not even by a technomancher. who uses fleshy bits to hack non fleshy bits all the time . .
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TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
fectin
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Post by fectin »

name_here wrote:
kzt wrote:In SR3 you could buy a flying death machine that included a medium machine gun and ammo for, IIRC, less than the cost of the ammo. And the flying death machine was legal, unlike the medium machinegun by itself. So this has always been an issue.


So wait, things become more legal when strapped to a flying death machine? What? Why? How?


Let me tell you about the actual firearms laws in modern America.

(I firmly believe that the biggest reason the NRA has so much pull is that everyone in a position to oppose them are drugged out of their collective gourds, at all times. It's the only rational explanation.)


OBE.
Last edited by fectin on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cyberzombie
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Post by Cyberzombie »

Stahlseele wrote:It only further cements the superiority of magic again, because magic does not make you hackable at all . .
Magic will be superior so long as magic doesn't have any weaknesses. It's really the same D&D problem all over again, where it takes magic to counter magic, but magic can counter everything else. More or less, if you want a balanced class set up, you have to either go the rock-paper-scissors route, where magic > hacker > samurai > magic or something similar, or you can go the 4E D&D route where everyone has relatively equal options and affects each other equally.

Alternately, you can just accept that certain archetypes are better at killing stuff than others.
shau
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Post by shau »

I assume they kept the "chunky sala" explosion reflection garbage, right? So really its more like taking 100 dice unless you are flying in the air away from any walls for some reason.
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Post by John Magnum »

They did. Their example of the reflection rules features a guy taking literally 156 dice of damage.

ETA: Checking the description for that, apparently there's some hideous accounting for what happens when multiple explosions go off simultaneously. I don't even know what happens if three explosions go off at once.

There's probably some difference engine shit where a hi-ex and a frag going off simultaneously is substantially better or worse than a hi-ex going off 0.1 seconds before a frag, although since any one grenade is capable of chewing through anything in the book it's hard to see how it matters.
Last edited by John Magnum on Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
-JM
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Post by JesterZero »

There's some additional craziness because one of the changes between 4th and 5th was they incorporated Frank's house rule for hardened armor: half you're armor counts as automatic successes. You might think at first blush this is a good thing.

Not really.

Where this gets crazy is a lot of the high-end armor (for example, military armor) seriously is running around with values of 20+. Which means that: 1) anything with a modified DV of less than 20+ automatically does 0 damage, 2) if somehow you manage to rock 21+ DV (or pile on enough AP to matter), then the armor automatically reduces your DV by 10+, and then 3) that guy wearing it still rolls Reaction + Intuition + Body + Armor - AP to defend / soak.

Let's do three quick test cases. Just to keep everything simple: assume a stat / skill array of 3's across the board.

Military-Grade Assault Rifle

Test Dummy #1 is rocking an Ares Alpha with APDS. Test Dummy #2 is rocking MilSpec Armor with a Helmet (23 Hardened Armor).

Test Dummy #1 wants to fire full auto. That would seem to be the thing to do, but he's got a dicepool of 6, recoil compensation of 4, and he takes a DP penalty for each bullet that exceeds the difference between his dicepool and his RC. So he settles for just throwing 6 bullets downrange instead of 10. I only mention this because it actually matters since you have to consult the special chart to figure out how much this messes with the defender later on.

So, having compromised already, he cuts loose: Ares Alpha, DV of 11, and 4 dice left in his dicepool. We'll assume he does his thing, and gets that DV up to 12. Good for him.

Unfortunately, Test Dummy #2 is rocking that aforementioned Hardened Armor of 23. So even with the AP from the APDS (-4) and the Alpha (-2), it's still 12 vs. 17 and it turns out that Test Dummy #1 accomplishes nothing, and we didn't need to calculate those numbers after all. Allow me to reiterate that: dude just took 6 rounds of armor-piercing bullets to the dome and we don't even roll to soak. The rules actually suggest that it is a very real possibility that he didn't notice.

Military-Grade Sniper Rifle

Ok, let's be kind and rewind: having seen how ineffectual a military assault rifle loaded with military-grade ammo is, Test Dummy #1 instead picks up a Ranger Arms SM-5. Sniper rifle: DV of 14 and AP of -5. Now we're talking. Granted, this is something of an edge-case weapon, but it could be reasonably argued that full MilSpec armor is an edge-case opponent.

He doesn't even screw around with firing modes this time, just rolls his dicepool of 6. Again, we'll assume that he gets a reasonable 2 successes, and modifies the DV to 16. Now, this is a very good thing, because 16 > (23 - 5 - 4 = 14). So according to the Hardened Armor rules, the guy in the suit actually notices the attack.

NOTE: If I'd wanted to be really mean, I would have construed a situation where the DV was equal to the armor, because no one knows what happens then. Seriously. The rules tell you what happens when DV < Armor, and what happens when DV > Armor, but not when they are the same number. There is essentially an entire range of inputs and outputs that basically just give your brain a a #DIV/0 error. Actually, that might just be a regular #ERROR, but you get my point.

Ok, so Test Dummy #2 is taking fire. 16 DV to be precise. First things first, the hardened armor knocks that down to 9 DV immediately, and then Test Dummy #2 rolls 23 dice to soak, getting 7 or 8 successes. So on average, what would normally be a prime example of HEADSHOOT BOOM! instead results in 1 or 2 boxes of damage.

Military-Grade BFG

If we run that one more time with Test Dummy #1 now rocking the oh-so-iconic Panther Cannon, we wind up with a modified DV of 19 and a modified Armor of 17. So DV immediately goes to 10, and then Test Dummy #2 rolls 26 dice to resist, getting an average of 8 or 9 successes....again, taking 1 or 2 boxes of damage all told.

Long story short: apparently military conflicts in Shadowrun look less like Saving Private Ryan and more like Mars Attacks. And the higher you go on the conflict scale, the crazier it gets. I specifically stayed away from 1) vehicles, and 2) explosions for this example, and kept it confined to dudes wearing armor and carrying guns. And we still basically wind up in Crazy Town by way of three different chapters.

Bonus Round: Mana Bolt

Ironically enough, this is where you actually would do better with a Mage and his recently-nerfed Mana Bolt spell, because even if he's got a stat array of 3's and casts it at Force = 3 (taking an average of 0 drain), he's still going to do an average of 1 damage. I consider that "better" because even though the damage is roughly equivalent, I only had to consult one paragraph in one chapter instead of five or six paragraphs in three chapters to figure that out.
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Post by John Magnum »

Wait so they still have that whole thing where armor suddenly switches from immune to damage 1:1 to resisting damage 1:3 and thus becomes massively, massively worse as soon as you get a single +1 to DV?
-JM
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Post by TheFlatline »

Hey Frank, at some point can we discuss what a Phillip K Dick Cyberpunk RPG would look like? Because I squee'd a little at the idea of that. PKD is one of my favorite authors, and a whacked out schizophrenic who took LSD and pondered the nature of his reality (the speech that he gives where he casually mentions he's actually a roman centurian giving the same speech 2000 years earlier is kind of a hoot, and interesting when it comes to shared manufactured reality) sounds like the kind of themes that would make for one fucked up game.

Edit: Here's the speech where he talks about reality, Disneyland, and living concurrent lives.

http://deoxy.org/pkd_how2build.htm
Last edited by TheFlatline on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by JesterZero »

John Magnum wrote:Wait so they still have that whole thing where armor suddenly switches from immune to damage 1:1 to resisting damage 1:3 and thus becomes massively, massively worse as soon as you get a single +1 to DV?
Not exactly. I haven't wargamed out all the possibilities, but it seems to me that instead of having the difference of 1 DV literally be the difference between bullets-go-ping! and smoking crater, there is now a relatively narrow band of inputs where partial damage can occur. My point was simply that the damage that does occur doesn't line up with what I would expect, even at relatively simple military dude vs. military dude levels.

A HMG vs. a Roadmaster would basically be base DV of 12 / AP of -4 vs. a Body / Armor of 18 / 18. So that's 12 DV vs. 14 armor, and we don't even roll unless you can get enough successes to get the DV above 14 or enough AP to get the armor below 12. Again: I have no idea what happens if DV = Armor. Presumably the devs make fun of you on Dumpshock for daring to ask such a question, because that's the go-to move of the guy who wrote the matrix chapter.

If you were firing APDS, then a single shot would be DV 12 vs. Armor 10, which cashes out to DV 7 soaked by 28 dice...presumably scaling that down to zero damage.

If you fired a 10-round spray, then the defender gets -9 DP penalty. Normally you wouldn't do such a thing because the recoil penalties are pretty nuts, and require you to count individual bullets. But if SR5 follows the pattern where bolting a gun down on your roof negates recoil entirely, then you might do such a thing. In that case, the DV of 7 is only resisted by 19 dice, and you might score a point of damage.

Now, in fairness to SR5, I'm not complicating this by considering anything the attacker might do to crank damage upwards (have a higher stat + skill dicepool) or anything the defender might do to further mitigate damage (evasive maneuvers or somesuch). Mostly that's because I can't find any ranged attack modifiers pertaining to relative motion; apparently despite the fact that we're counting bullets one-by-one to determine recoil, the difference between someone cruising by at a stately 10 kph or a rather brisk 250 kph is considered negligible. So we could be talking about + / - three or four boxes of damage. Which seems like a lot, except the Roadmaster has 21 boxes on it's damage track.

Again, I have no clue what happens if you start scaling up from there. My point was just that I find the values to be somewhat odd, even given the fact that we're within the range for what the system claims it can handle. This isn't really new: the non-proportional damage system has always struggled with this to some extent; it's just that in SR4 and SR4A I seem to recall that it handled corebook ranges with a bit more grace though. That could just be the nostalgia talking though.

The comments that other people have made regarding how much goofier things get once you start talking about tear gas and backpacks full of hand grenades seem pretty spot on. I wasn't trying to beat that particular dead horse.
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Post by TheFlatline »

FrankTrollman wrote: Shadowrun is a world that has a really really large number of deadly deadly chickens. And magic pigs. And hell cows. And so on and so forth. But none of the editions seem to have twigged to what that really means. That there are more flying pigs in this setting than there are Latvians. That hell cows outnumber magic lizards by like a million to one. Because in Shadowrun: demographics is destiny. And your destiny is that you are going to be eaten by a mystical goat.
Maybe this is part of the reason why "real" food is supposed to be rare and expensive and normally people eat bean curd and protein paste and soybean derivatives. Raising livestock is just too fucking dangerous. Back during the first Awakening when goats and pigs and shit started eating people and breathing fire those Kosher laws started looking pretty fucking appealing. Then the Hindu cows go berzerk and... fuck I don't know but that sounds like an AWESOME chapter to read. In the midwest and even parts of California I can see the dairy and cattle industries turning into some bizarre survival horror story of entire towns being tracked down by rampaging, *intelligent* livestock that could cast spells and shit.
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Post by JesterZero »

Actually, one last addendum before bed. I was assuming that vehicle armor uses the hardened armor rules, because that would seemingly make sense. Now that I've gone looking for proof of that, I can't find it. Which could be because vehicle armor is not hardened, or because it's in a sidebar in the skills chapter for some reason.

If vehicle armor is hardened, then grenades vs. limos actually goes a bit differently than Frank described:
  • A frag grenade has DV 18 / AP of +5 vs. Body / Armor of 15 / 15. So the armored limo actually has hardened armor 20 vs. a DV of 18, and doesn't even need to roll.
  • If it was a HE grenade, then that's DV of 15 / AP of -2 vs. Body / Armor of 15 / 15. So the armored limo actually has hardened armor of 13 vs. a DV of 9. It rolls 28 dice and presumably rolls that down to nothing.
If vehicle armor is not hardened, then the same frag grenade that previously was laughed off now does DV 18 vs. 35 soak, and the limo fills in 11 or 12 boxes on its condition monitor of 20 boxes. So either 100 nuyen grenade does nothing against a 300k nuyen armored car, or an investment of 200 nuyen is enough to obliterate one completely. (Which is in line with the numbers Frank ran). You pick.
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Post by Dean »

I'm very curious what JesterZero is writing. The people I trust talk about the game as being fantastically lethal but I would not be surprised if somewhere in the 500 pages of disorganized charts there was some rules or equipment that made a dedicated defender virtually invulnerable.

So for those in the know, which is it? Ignoring chunky salsa, do well built characters kill each other in one attack or plink off each others armor? Would a defense specced character automatically ignore most challenges? How would their defenses fare vs an offense specced character?
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Post by Username17 »

JesterZero's equations are all wrong, because Hardened Armor doesn't exist except as a critter power. Full body armor is just 18 points of armor, not hardened armor. Only Dragons get hardened armor now. Even military vehicles just get modestly large piles of damage resistance dice. No attack negation, no automatic hits, just a pile of dice.

I could see how that would be surprising, since the entire justification of the hardened armor power used to be that it operated like heavy and/or vehicle armor. But seriously: there are zero mentions of hardened armor anywhere in the book except in reference to the critter power. I have no idea if that's an oversight or not.

So if you want to shoot an armored car, it has a Body and Armor rating of 18 each. So it rolls 36 dice on soak, and you subtract 12 damage from all incoming attacks. And yeah, since you're only allowed to do wide bursts, and wide burts do no extra damage and only affect the target's dodge, if you want to shoot an assault rifle at an armored car it only makes sense to fire in single shot mode. You're going to use a Called Shot because the only real restriction on called shots is that you can only do them once per initiative pass, which is not even a limitation when you are only allowed to make one attack in an initiative pass anyway. Apparently, your best bet is to called shot on the armored car's "vitals" for +2 DV. Slap Patches of all things make a reference to making called shots to bypass armor, but if you follow the page citation given, no such called shot option is actually listed. So maybe there's supposed to be a super secret armor reduction called shot, which against a target with 18 armor dice could very plausibly be better than +2 DV. This book is very poorly written and edited is what I'm saying.

So anyway, we're putting out basic professional rating 2 soldiers. They have Agilities of 4 and combat skills of 4. And smart goggles because they are using Ares Alphas. That gives them a base dicepool of 10. They take the called shot penalty to bring themselves down to 6 dice. They roll and get 2 hits on their one shot of explosive ammunition. So that armored car is faced with 16 damage at -3 AP. So the armored car rolls 33 dice, gets 11 hits, and suffers 5 wound boxes. All told, the armored car has 17 wound boxes, so it'll take like three or four shots of an assault rifle to reduce the armored car to scrap. Less if the person firing the bullets is an actual bad ass of some sort. And if you use the grenade launcher attachment on that Ares Alpha, you can scrap it in one shot.

-Username17
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