Video game and cartoon stuff that makes way too much sense!

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:13 am

Well, since there has been a little interest shown in hearing about it but no PMs asking for moar I figured I'd just do this for everyone to see. Besides, having a thread for this would be fun.

As we've established .mon is a file extension that all digimon programs have the image macro I posted posits .mon as an executable but it would make sense that they actually not be, since they need an outside influence to digivolve which would be an external program unpacking their data.

Okay so with that sorted we have to talk a little about the themes of digimon. The overarching theme of all the seasons is someone trying to control the network in some fashion. Usually it's a digital entity but in tamers there's a human organization, hypnos, that's taking up the mantle of trying to manipulate the digital world.

So at some point after the events of Tamers the Hypnos' successor succeeds in bringing the network under control and begins making designer digimon for children to play with (all in all a pretty good deal for digimon since human children are basically seen as gods in the digital world) and this leads us to... Megaman Battle network! Unlike their wild predecessors net navis actually are executable programs that don't digivolve but instead have the ability to unpack and utilize programs designed to enhance their abilities, in order to sell more toys to children of course.

Now, everything published by Capcom under the Megaman name is considered to be cannon and the continuity has traditionally been a matter of time frame. With original megaman followed by X, followed by zero and so on. From this it follows that megaman battle network would work in the same way preceding the original megaman games.

From the events of battle network we know that the megaman who Dr. Light built wasn't the first megaman instead the original megaman was a net navi used by one of Dr. Light's ancestors Lan Hikari (which, yes, does translate to local area network light, at least it's not the Japanese version in which he was named Netto Hikari). It would make sense that Dr. Light would at least know about the megaman net navi, if not have it himself since programs don't naturally degrade over time except for compatibility issues cropping up as systems become more advanced. So, after protoman ran away from him the good doctor based his next creation on the personalities and appearances of Megaman.exe and his friend Roll.exe (but since he didn't have access to the roll.exe program he only had descriptions which probably didn't include the rougher edges of her personality) the bulkier, less streamlined appearances are owed to the limited technology available to him at the time and the realities of creating a physical robot able to move the heavy components and armor the two robots had, especially megaman. From there the timeline progresses to X and onward.

EDIT: Oh, well damnit, somehow I managed to forget that the navi's from the battle network era can also biomerge with their human children just like the digimon in tamers, further solidifying the connection.

Next time, why Protoman is the actual source of the reploids in Megaman X.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:19 am

*blinks* err . . what?
also this:

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:17 pm

What part needs clarification?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:50 pm

why is digimon the precursor to megaman?
what common thread is there to connect them?

rampaging-poet · Post by **rampaging-poet** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:19 pm

The Megaman Battle Network Internet is functionally identical to a D&D-style plane of existence. It has physical space, things happen on human time-scales, and in some circumstances there can even be planar bleeds (eg the last mission in Megaman Battle Network 2).

The Digital World of Digimon is also similar to a D&D plane. That is almost a tie between the two series. However, things break down a bit because time in the Digital World is much faster and planar travel is easier in Digimon than in Megaman Battle Network.

It's an interesting thought experiment, but I don't think the evidence is quite strong enough. I also thought that the Battle Network / Starforce timeline diverged when Dr. Hikari decided to study high-bandwidth networks instead of robotics, so Megaman.exe could not have inspired the robot Megaman because the former never existed in that timeline at all. I'd still be interested in hearing why Protoman is the source of the reploids though.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:35 pm

I already outlined that above, but I'll go into more detail, hypnos is a human organization in Tamers that carries on the theme of controlling the digital world that appears in every season of digimon, but just because Yamaki had a crisis of confidence after everything went to hell doesn't mean people would stop trying to control the network, and indeed they didn't as we see in Data Squad that another government organization is doing just that, but in that season the ones trying to control the network are the good guys, showing a clear progression in pubic opinion despite the DATS still doing some really questionable shit like experimenting with human DNA and with the clearly sentient digimon. I mean, how does Marcus meet his partner (agumon again, by the way)? Well the digimon is running away from a DATS institution and he doesn't ask if Marcus is his destined partner he asks to be hidden from the DATS enforcer who's after him.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that the Agumon from Data Squad has a unique digivolution path DATS has already been experimenting on digimon and it makes sense they'd be interested in altering digimon code to make them suit human needs better. But no one stays in the same job their entire life and it makes sense that DATS would have the best computer experts in the world for their work including the genius computer engineer Tadashi Hikari, Lan's grandfather who, after leaving DATS, went on to found a company using the knowledge of the network and manipulating Digimon data he gained from his time with the government to make custom companions for children which are held in... DIGIVICES! Sure, he calls Personal Exploration Terminals but we all know they're digivices just with built in email and stuff. Leave it to a human to take the most amazing device in the world, capable of linking you directly to an entire plane that exists within computers and saying, "Yeah, but wouldn't it be better with email?"

So, I hope that makes things clearer.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:52 pm

Can I buy pot from you?

-Username17

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:55 pm

Frank, would you want to smoke the Time Cube pot? It sounds dangerous.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:58 pm

No, it really does not.
There is nothing explicitly linking these 2 IPs.
Not the makers, not the characters, nor the lingua technica used . .

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:28 pm

rampaging-poet wrote:The Megaman Battle Network Internet is functionally identical to a D&D-style plane of existence. It has physical space, things happen on human time-scales, and in some circumstances there can even be planar bleeds (eg the last mission in Megaman Battle Network 2).

The Digital World of Digimon is also similar to a D&D plane. That is almost a tie between the two series. However, things break down a bit because time in the Digital World is much faster and planar travel is easier in Digimon than in Megaman Battle Network.

It's an interesting thought experiment, but I don't think the evidence is quite strong enough. I also thought that the Battle Network / Starforce timeline diverged when Dr. Hikari decided to study high-bandwidth networks instead of robotics, so Megaman.exe could not have inspired the robot Megaman because the former never existed in that timeline at all. I'd still be interested in hearing why Protoman is the source of the reploids though.

I missed this, but let me explain, in the original digimon it is quite easy to get to the digital world, but by the time of tamers we see that it is much more difficult to do so, requiring massive amounts of work and the combination of advanced human technology and the intervention of godlike beings from the digital world, by the time of data squad the only way into the digital world is though gates controlled by DATS which require a lot of energy and can only be held open for small amounts of time this again shows a progression the human and digital world becoming more and more separate.

Also, by Data Squad the time frames of the two worlds are also comparable, even by the time of Tamers the movement of the two worlds is similar enough that communication using modern human technology is possible. It would follow logically if the digital world was moving too fast it would be impossible for the adults and children to ever carry on conversations. Also in Tamers days and weeks pass in the human world while the children are in the digital world while in earlier shows only moments would pass no mater how long the children spent in the digital world.

As for the time line splitting... I have trouble buying that. Both because of former tradition and also because advanced robotics is harder than network engineering and it would make sense that the former would develop first and then the second would come. Also Dr. Light's name is also different than Dr. Hikari's even in japan his name is a borrowing from the english light, and it would make sense that someone with such a clear vision of a future where everyone lives in peace and harmony would choose to be refereed to by a less ethnic more neutral name to show his devotion to the ideas of international unity. Not only are their personalities different they don't look the same, they're similar, but not more than you would expect from someone's decedent certainly not enough to be the same person but from a different time line. More likely Capcom made that distinction to explain megaman in space but star force is... in space and megaman is not in space, at least not deep space so it makes sense that the two wouldn't interact.

Stahlseele, perhaps not but the two do have thematic and setting links and it makes sense that characters would, you know, die and stuff, and technical terms would come in and out of use, there's no way of telling how much time has passed in between tamers and Data Squad and battle network takes place in AC/DC town so it's not unreasonable to assume that characters Dr. Hikari would have known from DATS wouldn't necessarily be there in that particular small town.

As for you Frank, I'm sorry, but I have no pot to give you.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:42 pm

Alright so let's talk about Protoman and why he is the true precursor to reploids since people have shown interest in that. First, what is a reploid? Well, by definition, they are androids made from X's template, which does makes X the direct source of reploids don't worry I'm not going to pull anything stupid like saying "but all of Dr. Light's robots were based on protoman" though that is true. Instead we need to figure out functionally what a Reploid is and what makes X, X.

Now, according to the Megaman Wiki X (and Zero) are unique because they are the first robots to behavioral and adaptive abilities on par with humans, as well as their advanced robotics. This has been extrapolated to mean a number of things. Reploids have emotions, reploids are not bound by Asimov's three laws of robotics, and have human levels of intelligence.

But X was not the first robot Dr. Light designed to show these traits, Protoman was.

Protoman consistently flaunts the third law of robotics refusing to allow Dr. Light to repair his power core despite knowing that it will kill him, as it almost does, and would have had Dr. Wily not found him when he was on the edge of death and preformed a patch job for him.

Protoman certainly appears to have emotions as well, for instance he wrote his theme song, you listen to that and tell me it was written by someone who doesn't understand loneliness and sorrow. Additionally Protoman doesn't help Dr. Wily because he has to obey the human's order or because he was brain washed, he did it because he felt grateful to the man who saved his life. Protoman is smart, really, really, smart, you think he couldn't have come up with a better strategy of attack than to run first in one direction and then the other while firing only when he jumps in Megaman 3? No of course he could, but Protoman went easy on his little brother because he loves him.

Protoman is probably the most intelligent of Dr. Light's early robot's as well. He figures out how to maintain the generator Dr. Wily put in him even without Dr. Wily or Dr. Light' help, he's clever enough to stay competitive even with far more advanced robot masters while other Robot masters are shown to become unable to keep up.

Everything we see from Protoman supports him having a truly human AI which begs the question, why don't any of Dr. Light's other creations until X have the same kind of capabilities? Well, Dr. Light is human, and thus prone to weakness, when his first son, driven by the fear of losing himself, runs away from him, choosing to die instead of allowing the doctor to save his life it crushed the old man. It wouldn't be too far fetched to assume Dr. Light, fearing his other children would leave him too, purposefully designed them with less sophisticated AI. It wasn't a decision driven by malice but in his his twilight years, as he came to accept his own death he realized that he'd made a mistake, and designed X, Protoman's true successor. But, because of his advanced combat systems X had, Dr. Light sealed him in a pod designed to ensure his morals were strong which explains something else. X is shown to be far more prone to outbursts and strong emotions than Protoman, but this doesn't actually mean that X feels more, just that he's less mature. Which makes sense, Protoman learned to cope with his emotions by interacting with people and his peers, while X learned to do so from a pod designed to ensure he would have a moral compass. So Protoman is just better adjusted and has more self control.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:02 am

i thought this would be something like how all the pixar movies are actually set in the same universe . .
and powerpuff girls and samurai jack and fosters home for imaginary friends and my little pony: friendhhip is magic are all in more or less the same universe . .
or the pokemon stuff i posted further upwards that simply keeps it in the same universe and finds an explanation for the strangeness of things . .

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:10 am

No, there doesn't need to be an explicit link in my opinion, the physics of the two worlds are basically the same and the themes explored and temperaments of the people living in them are also extremely similar, we also see a progression in the human world of digimon towards controlling the network so it just makes logical sense that it's all in the same world just displaced in time. Also, anyone else who feels like sharing should feel free.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:32 am

HOLD EVERYTHING!

I have a theory which will blow. You. To Heaven.

'Kay, so, in most continuities the Digital World was created via mysterious, unexplained means (except in Tamers, but let's ignore that bit, shall we?). Of course, we all know that the Digital World was born from a Botamon's poo.

The World is usually ruled/protected by the Four Holy Beasts, all of them gigantic Ultimate stage Digimon: Qinglongmon the dragon, who watches over the East; Zhuqiaomon, the sparrow, who rules the South; Baihumon, the tiger, who guards the West, and Xuanwumon, the two-headed turtle, who protects the North. Occasionally, Yggdrasil is shown to rule instead, and other times it's God. These are all clearly just aspects of INAFKING.

Now, each of the Four Holy Beasts has four Deva that serve them, with a total of twelve Deva in all. These we can liken to the Robot Masters from Mega Man. Similarly, Yggdrasil has the Royal Knights, who serve as it's guardians and will, and these too could be seen as Robot Master equivalents.

Now, there's a Demon Lord Digimon called Bagramon, who - aside from having a beard similar to Dr. Weil (totally!) - also rebelled against the god of the Digital World, got banished for it, and now has an army of evil Digimon that he tries to use to take over the world. This, clearly, is a Dr. Wily analogue (Dr. Wily rebelled against Dr. Light, got branded a bad guy, now leads an army of evil robots trying to take over the world).

Also, Vamdemon is TOTALLY the evolved form of Shade Man. Seriously.

Also, the Battle Network cannot be part of the Digital World because it is a separate universe from the classic Mega Man-verse.

It goes
>Mega Man>Mega Man X>Mega Man Zero>Mega Man ZX

Battle Network is it's own universe, and is continued in the Star Force series, and Legends just sucks balls.

Now, here's the good bit:

Sanzomon, working under orders from Shakamon, attempted to save the Digital World from deletion at the blobs of the D-Reaper by resetting Yggdrasil, the main host computer of the DigiWorld. To set about this task, however, she needed six Chosen Children to aide her, each embodied by a different element (Fire, Ice, Electricity, Earth, Bombs, and... cutting thingies), that could help her defeat Lucemon, who had rebelled against God and freed the D-Reaper from it's prison. In order to do this, the six chosen had to defeat all twelve Royal Knights, in the suggested order, so that they could infiltrate Lucemon's castle fortress, whereupon they fought Lucemon in several different stages, after which Lucemon tried to escape in a smaller form. After destroying Lucemon for good (until the next time, at least), Sanzomon then gave her life to reset the Digital World, and the year changed from June 26 1997 to May 25 2XXX.

Also, Dr. Wiley is descended from KingEtemon-sama, Dr. Light from Agumon Hakase-sensi, and Roll from Cho Hakkaimon-chan.

And then Primus and Unicron had their whole epic battle, and the whole mess got exploded to pave way for May 8 1984.

See? It. All. Makes. SENSE.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:35 am

I'm really tempted to just post a wall of gibberish linking Digimon to literally ever property that has ever existed with connections about as strong as the ones you guys are making up for Megaman.

Please change the the thread title to be "Things that make no sense."

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:36 am

Isn't that what I just did?

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:36 am

In 1884, meridian time personnel met
in Washington to change Earth time.
First words said was that only 1 day
could be used on Earth to not change
the 1 day bible. So they applied the 1
day and ignored the other 3 days.
The bible time was wrong then and it
proved wrong today. This a major lie
has so much evil feed from it's wrong.
No man on Earth has no belly-button,
it proves every believer on Earth a liar.

Children will be blessed for
Killing Of Educated Adults
Who Ignore 4 Simultaneous
Days Same Earth Rotation.
Practicing Evil ONEness -
Upon Earth Of Quadrants.
Evil Adult Crime VS Youth.
Supports Lie Of Integration.
1 Educated Are Most Dumb.
Not 1 Human Except Dead 1.
Man Is Paired, 2 Half 4 Self.
1 of God Is Only 1/4 Of God.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:59 am

You guys are just mad because someone else figured out that digimon is part of the megaman universe. Anyway, no comments about protoman?

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:13 am

The Protoman one actually works really damn well. Like the Digimon-Battle Network theory is surprisingly clever for an attempt to join two otherwise unrelated franchises , but the Protoman one actually fits a lot of the gaps between the original Megaman series and the X series.

Also, Megaman ZX being connected to the classic, X and Zero series makes significantly less sense than ZX not being connected to the Battle Network series. Fuck, the quasi-post-apocalyptic-but-rebuilding world of Legends would make more sense as the successor to the post-apocalyptic world Zero series. And I don't even like Legends, while I am indifferent to ZX.

If Battle Network was a precursor to all of the Wily and Maverick Wars, I could sorta see ZX as a return to that normalcy, but as Battle Network's a separate thing ZX being the last of the classic/X/Zero continuity really makes no sense, because it's much more similar to Battle Network than it is the other games.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:41 am

Well I'm glad that one went over well at least. As for the other stuff, it all kind of makes more sense if everything is connected and on the same time line, but no Capcom has been huffing the old paint for a while now and declared the battle network games as their own thing even though it would be fine for network engineering to happen before robotics.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:31 am

Shrapnel wrote:Isn't that what I just did?

Poe's Law. Your thing isn't appreciably more crazy than Darkmaster's.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:13 pm

Aw, damn. I tried so hard, too.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:41 pm

You failed

each of the Four Holy Beasts has four Deva that serve them, with a total of twelve Deva in all.

who can spot the error in this?

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:27 pm

Okay, three Deva to each Holy Beast.

Bear in mind, I was half-asleep when I wrote that.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:31 pm

ok, better.