Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:22 pm
I missed the part where he made a typo. My bad.
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NO.DSMatticus wrote:TPL is now claiming that because I reject his fallacious readings of the text, I must necessarily reject all of the text.
Have you played... I don't know, Shadowrun? Does the idea that automatic weapons might have multiple disjoint things you can do while in a particular firing mode really seem unlikely to you?momothefiddler wrote:That said, is your argument that Burstfire is totally just ranged power attack and it only references Autofire for teh lulz and is, in fact, completely unrelated? Because that's what I'm getting from you and it doesn't seem terribly likely.
This is not a thing that happened. For all your fucking whining and accusations you will not find a single quote anywhere in this entire thread that says what you are claiming I have said, and this is your challenge to do so right here. Find me saying "unless the text says you absolutely can't do something you can ignore it" or anything equivalent to that. Put up or shut up. And know that when you inevitably try to lift something out of context that you think will kind-of-sort-of hit the mark this is a fucking forum and I know how to find my own posts and quote the entire relevant portion.PhoneLobster wrote:YOU have presented the argument that unless a line of text says you absolutely CAN'T do something then it is a guideline you can totally ignore.
Allow me to apologize for leading you astray. Probably should have fixed.RadiantPhoenix wrote:It doesn't say that: it says "[make] the heroes [...] feel overwhelming.", not "[make] the heroes [...] feel overwhelmed.", which means the game expects the party to wipe the floor with them.spongeknight wrote:Yeah, I'm siding with PL on this one. Saying that you shouldn't overwhelm players with huge amounts of characters because that is likely to kill them
EDIT: I missed the part where DSM said he made a typo.
That's all you needed to say. If autofire is a weapon mode (or even type, I guess) and Autofire is an action, that's both understandable and potentially confusing but it completely negates my argument - that Burstfire wouldn't reference Autofire and also contain all its rules (totally just power attack).DSMatticus wrote:Have you played... I don't know, Shadowrun? Does the idea that automatic weapons might have multiple disjoint things you can do while in a particular firing mode really seem unlikely to you?momothefiddler wrote:That said, is your argument that Burstfire is totally just ranged power attack and it only references Autofire for teh lulz and is, in fact, completely unrelated? Because that's what I'm getting from you and it doesn't seem terribly likely.
Look: autofire is a firing mode some guns have.
Put up or shut up. You are ignoring SOME CL guidelines on the basis of them not being "prohibitions" and yet following OTHER CL guidelines which are ALSO not "prohibtions" by your stupid argument.DSMatticus wrote:This is not a thing that happened.
Thank's its good to know someone enjoyed the material.CatharzGodfoot wrote:Thanks PL. That was a good read. I needed more Saga hate in my life.
But please just stop trying to use apostrophes.
But that wasn't even Dean's real point. He picked 26 stormtroopers because that's the number of people it takes to one-shot Darth Vader, but as we know combat lasts multiple rounds and people can perform action in each round and some guns deal more damage than those wielded by normal stormtroopers. In this thread, Dean has also shown that Darth Vader loses to like 10 stormtroopers in a real fight as well.spongeknight wrote:Yeah, I'm siding with PL on this one. Saying that you shouldn't overwhelm players with huge amounts of characters because that is likely to kill them, and then simultaneously saying that evasion is necessary because huge amounts of mooks will kill you if you don't have evasion so evasion is necessary is just wrong. It's a circular argument starting with a false premise. If your GM doesn't toss lots of autohitting mooks at you, evasion is not worth anything. If your GM is throwing tons of autohitting mooks at you, he is specifically doing something the game rules warn him not to do. Your argument is literally "if the GM ignores the encounter building advice and does something that will probably kill you, then the one ability that counters that is important, therefore it is always important because all GMs will ignore the encounter building guidelines."
You might as well say that all character builds need to include buying a Star Destroyer because your GM throws a Star Destroyer at parties.
I didn't even bother, you flat out challenged me to say when you said it then basically repeated the fucking thing you claimed you never said directly after it.DSMatticus wrote:PL has responded to my challenge to prove that I said the things he is claiming
PL wrote:Your thin veneer of the "guidelines don't say I CAN'T they just tell me it's bad!" is fucking stupid. And you keep repeating it and pretending it isn't what you are saying.
Your entire last post, AGAIN, was a repetition of your whining on that you don't HAVE to follow guidelines with NO defense of what that philosophy does when you encounter every other fucking CL guideline in the game.
DSM wrote:My actual stated position is that 1 is false. It is false because "avoid X unless Y" is, by simple fucking English, not equivalent to "don't do X." And if those English sentences are not equivalent then 1 is not fucking true. And what happens if 1 isn't true? Then 3 does not follow. And if 3 does not follow, then 5 does not follow. And if 5 does not follow, then 7 does not follow.
Well, you're right that this is going nowhere. It's just the same fucking lie over and over and over and over about how I don't have an argument even as I provide the exact argument you are calling for over and over and over and over and you ignore it each and every single time. Your review is over and this argument is clearly over and there is no further reason to leave you off ignore. Back on you go and as requested I'm out.DSM wrote: You have presented the argument that when a line of text says "avoid drinking coffee unless you're trying to stay awake" "avoid encounters with more than a dozen opponents unless you want the heroes to feel overwhelmed" it actually means "never drink coffee" "never have encounters with more than a dozen opponents."
I have rejected the notion that "don't do X unless you want Y" means "never do X," and instead means "you could do X if you wanted Y".
Well, no, if you'd paid any attention in between shitting your brains out over how you totally get to ignore CL guidelines only whenever it is convenient for your bullshit claims, you may have noticed that the review of the core book is over. Thanks to your whole "but one of the splat books might be THE TOMES OF SAGA EDITION!!!" brain fart I may yet have more work to do!DSMatticus wrote:Your review is over
And if ONLY you could manage to keep that promise THIS time, unlike say the LAST several times you've petulantly pulled it out after losing an argument....and there is no further reason to leave you off ignore.
I've heard from a few people that the martial arts splatbook and/or the expanded martial arts materials make unarmed guys viable in a system where jedi deflect guns and everyone else has guns. I assume that's all bullshit from the stupid abilities people get in the core book, so that's at least one thing you could do.PhoneLobster wrote:Anyway, come to think of it. In the vein of the review not entirely being over...
I have been thinking the way I would cover the splat books would be something like several pages on each covering the topics of "What is it supposed to fix?", "Does It Fix those things?", "What new options does it introduce?" and "Crazy dumb stuff it did in the mean time".
What I have been unable to decide is how many splat books to cover and in what order of priority.
I could, eventually, cover them all, in any order.
But I think it might be best to just ask if anyone has any particular interest in specific splats or indeed if anyone even has ANY interest in further splat coverage at all?
Clarification:fbmf wrote:DSM, Dean, and others: I understand that, with Evasion, PL's example was skewed to prove his point and you've got him on that.
Multi classing? PL says it sucks, and Insomniac ( and Korwin) says it doesn't. PL is talking about rules. Korwin starts talking about house rules to fix multi classing while claiming multi lasting doesn't suck. Insomniac just says PL is wrong but doesn't bother to offer any support for that idea.
Game On,
fbmf
Sometimes it's more "X Shakes Head in Deep Disappointment at Y". Like the Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom thread is less rage and more "How could they possibly be this clueless?"Schwarzkopf wrote:It is essential to the future of the den that 'X Shakes the Angry Fist at Y' become the naming convention used for all future drunken/OSSR reviews.
Because intellectual honesty.