Let's talk design- magical girl RPGs

spongeknight · Post by **spongeknight** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:31 pm

To my knowledge there has never been a dedicated magical girl RPG that has actually been sold for money. There have been a few spinoffs- the Sailor Moon RPG was bolted onto the tri stat system, there are a few notes about magical girls in various anime games, and there are certainly free games posted on the interwebs by random people. But that's as close as we've ever come.

I wonder why that is? The magical girl genre is ridiculously compatible with tabletop gaming. You've got a team of superheroes who need to fight an unambiguously evil empire full of minions, the heroes generally have similar power sets with enough customability to be unique but enough overlap to fight the same monsters, and there are plenty of Mcguffins to look for to make a long campaign not get stale. Everything you need is right in the basic premise of the genre.

So is there a reason why nobody makes magical girl RPGs? Is it simply because adult men- the largest demographic- feels uncomfortable playing that type of game? Is it because systems like BESM do a good enough job emulating the genre that a dedicated system isn't required?

Regardless, let's talk about how a magical girl RPG would be unique as opposed to other systems. I personally have a few mechanics that I'd like to see in that kind of game, like a determination roll instead of hit points. Generally any attack that actually hits a magical girl knocks them down- whether or not that puts them out of the fight completely depends on how much determination they can muster to get back up again. Actual damage to their body is secondary and usually just disappears at the end of the fight. Knockback would also be a pretty big consideration, as well as some sort of super bar to generate purification or ultimate attacks.

Another thing that would be cool is emphasizing teamwork. Like, hardcore emphasizing teamwork. If you're next to an ally, you should be able to push them out of the way of attacks, combine your attacks with theirs, motivate them, add your own elemental effects to their options, shit like that. Because enemies will have knockback, a big part of combat will be enemies trying to separate your team to make you weaker while your team tries to support each other as much as possible to counter that. That would be an interesting combat dynamic, I think.

Anyone else have ideas they'd like to see in a magical girl game?

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:51 pm

Well my first question would be to define precisely how the Magical Girl genre differs from more mainstream comic book superheroes?

I mean obviously the secret identity defaults to "Japanese schoolgirl" instead of "billionaire playboy" or "ace reporter", but what are the more meaningful differences in genre conventions?

Once you can answer that, my next question is whether those are meaningfully different enough to warrant a designing a whole new system from the ground up, or if things could just be handled as a supplement for M&M / Champions / d20 / Bear World?

infected slut princess · Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:03 pm

You need to have epic fights with epic super attacks. Then, when the fight reaches the peak of intensity, you need to show your enemies the power of love so everyone can stop fighting and become friends.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:31 pm

The Sailor Moon RPG was terribad, but it did exist. Other than that, it really does seem like you could do Magical Girls as super heroes or urban fantasy witches without difficulty.

-Username17

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:40 pm

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/1 ... on-Perfect

Not quite magical girl but close.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:01 am

Is this different from Maid?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:05 am

spongeknight wrote:So is there a reason why nobody makes magical girl RPGs? Is it simply because adult men- the largest demographic- feels uncomfortable playing that type of game?

Uncomfortable isn't the right word for it. Restricted might be a better one.

Let's face it, the very name of the magical girl genre imposes a really restrictive set of thematic schticks. Urbanite female teenagers is a narrow subset of superpowered action-adventure concepts. You frankly have a higher chance of getting to play Sailor Moon in a Teen Titans game than playing Sailor Moon in a Sailor Moon game. That by itself is a huge problem with trying to adapt the magical girl genre to a sustainable TTRPG. There's also the bigger problem that some of its selling points (cute girls in cute outfits saying and singing cute things) doesn't translate very well to the medium. But probably the biggest problem is that its major thematic elements are already done and probably better by its parent genre. The power of friendship and love, the adolescence metaphor, and the call to adventure tropes have been done at least as well by generic superhero fiction. We have the original Teen Titans series, Spider-Man, and X-Men. Magical girl shows that do their primary thematic elements better than generic superhero fiction tend to stray pretty far from their magical girl routes -- Puella and Simoun come to mind.

And, again, Teen Titans would still feel like Teen Titans even if Sailor Moon was a part of their team and got her own plot arcs. Sailor Moon might grumble at how there's too much testosterone and roughhousing and not enough J-Pop (even with the HHPA theme song) and girltalk for her tastes, but she can't exactly say "as a WoD-style cosmopolitan vampyre, these ultraviolent murder-hobo D&D-styled adventures aren't letting me develop in the way I like". She'd have to argue over minutae like Starfire's skirt not being frilly enough and the lasers being the wrong color.

Not to say that agitating over mere aesthetic minutiae is in of itself a disqualifying factor for making a work of fiction, but that is the hill you have to be prepared to die on. Magical Girl RPGs have yet to make a more compelling case as to why we should accept their restrictive spin on superhero tropes than 'Don't you want to roleplay a Wedding Peach OC'?

spongeknight · Post by **spongeknight** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:09 am

Josh_Kablack wrote:Well my first question would be to define precisely how the Magical Girl genre differs from more mainstream comic book superheroes?

Not a lot, really. The newer concepts of the magical girl shows (like Pretty Cure) take a lot of inspiration from the sentai genre, which is just teams of superheroes from Japan. There isn't a compelling reason why you couldn't run a game of that in HERO, other than enforcing some mandatory theme-based restrictions on powers (you must have a transformation, ect.).

The reason to have a dedicated magical girl RPG would basically be a campaign setting, slightly more specific and applicable rules, and the art to establish the tone and feel of the game.

BoxCrayonTales · Post by **BoxCrayonTales** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:16 am

I'd suggest Magical Burst, which is basically Puella Magi Madoka Magica writ large. It's in the playtest stage right now, but the author intends to sell the finished product and even wrote a companion novel.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:28 am

Josh_Kablack wrote:Well my first question would be to define precisely how the Magical Girl genre differs from more mainstream comic book superheroes?

Magical girls and superheroes only overlap in the "magical girl warrior" subgenre, but the MG genre is a lot bigger than that, from stories about idol singers (think Jem) to novella to slice-of-life.

There was this game called Witch Girls (I think?) was was marketed to little girls, seems like the tool for the job.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:39 am

I feel compelled out of masochism to mention that Nanoha RPG that I'm never going to finish.

Anyway I'm struggling to think of any big reason why a generic system of your choice would have major problems telling magical girl stories. I'm also sort of dubious that "generic Mahou Shojo" RPG would be all that different from a generic superhero RPG. Kinomoto Sakura, Kaname Madoka, and Takamachi Nanoha are the first three magical girls I can name off the top of my head and they live in radically different stories.

BoxCrayonTales · Post by **BoxCrayonTales** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:41 am

There was a parody game using world of darkness rules called "Senshi: The Merchandising," which had classes based on various 90's magical girl shows (magical warriors, magical knights, magical idol singers, wedding warriors, tuxedo warriors, espers, holy thieves, fairy princesses, card captors, good witches/warlocks) to give some diversity.

Night Goat · Post by **Night Goat** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:05 am

spongeknight wrote:So is there a reason why nobody makes magical girl RPGs? Is it simply because adult men- the largest demographic- feels uncomfortable playing that type of game?

Yes. If one of my gaming bros suggested playing a magical girl RPG, there would probably be a long awkward pause, then we'd go back to playing D&D.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:02 am

Well, an important thing to remember is that the Magical Girl genre is actually more flexible than people might initially think.

Panty and Stocking are Magical Girls, but they're Lustful/Gluttonous angels rather than schoolgirls (well, except for that one episode... or... two episodes?)

Cutie Honey is a magical girl anime through and through, she's just an android with a bunch of different modes rather than a schoolgirl with a single transformation.

Hell, there's also a web animation where a woman finds out her boyfriend is a magical "girl" and a webcomic with, I'm pretty sure, a male anime nerd gaining the typical magical girl powers, complete with magic sex change.

Also...

Oh, and there totally was an rpg about fighting an unambiguous force of evil and their evil minions of corruption and badness after a start of combat transformation sequence.

It was called Werewolf the Apocalypse.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:06 am

Generally, if a magical girl anime has something noteworthy that makes it different from regular super hero teams, that very same thing makes it different from other magical girl anime. Do you really want a party that consists of Ryuuka, Nanoha, Utena, Sailor Moon and the Witchblade?

(The answer to that should be yes, but if your system caters to all of the above, it also probably caters to Iron Man, Wonder Woman, Ghost Rider and [Gundam Pilot of Choice].)

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:09 am

If you feel the theme is too limited then broaden it to include other transformation heroes

So you can play as...

-Super Sentai/Power Rangers
-Kamenrider
-Sailor Moon
-Pretty Cure

and then your expansion adds Ultraman and Megazords.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:20 am

If you expand to include the "civilian" support structure for characters like Kamen Rider OOO, all of the Avengers fit the paradigm.

Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor transform into a "costumed" mode
Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Captain America are "mostly normal"

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:24 am

http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/11/11/p ... -a-wombat/

New show about magical boys and the fairy wombat that guides them

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:30 am

Prak wrote: Oh, and there totally was an rpg about fighting an unambiguous force of evil and their evil minions of corruption and badness after a start of combat transformation sequence.

It was called Werewolf the Apocalypse.

The best part is that you can unironically declare that you will punish them in the name of the Moon Gaia.

animea90 · Post by **animea90** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:54 am

There is Exalted Kawaii Edition too.

http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/TheKawaiiEdition

Sakuya Izayoi · Post by **Sakuya Izayoi** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:37 am

The important difference I see between superheroes and magical girls is that in the genre, you have much more slice of life action. Peter Parker has a job and, Champions terms, Dependent NPCs, but they're window dressing. Sailor Scouts spend most of the episode dealing with friends, school and life events.

Slice-of-life, in the realm of games you pay money for and get a nominally feature-complete product, tends to be in the realm of Bear Worldy stuff. Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine, a game I paid money for, is a bit more bearable than that, but its still pretty hipster and fluff-dense compared to its sparse amount of actual rules. It's what I would probably go for for running something slice-of-life with occasional fights though, like Magical Girl or Persona 3/4 or what have you.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:43 am

That actually raises a good question. What's the bear minimum to still be a Magical Girl work? What would people expect to see vrs want to see in a Magical Girl game?

Transformation sequences are not something you need mechanics for, really. Unambiguously evil villains can be found in virtually any game. What would make a game a Magical Girl game?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:36 pm

Well if you're going Sailor Moon for instance, here are some things you want:

-Love is an actual force of power that can keep you going (heroines), be used as a beam weapon (heroines) or cause you to instantly lose (villains).
-Talking is just a thing people do all the time, it doesn't take an action. Whether people are giving advice to each other in the middle of a fight or the enemy patiently waits for you to finish your speech.
-The closest you can ever get to true evil is a malevolent force that corrupts good people. You can free them from it without killing them. People can always be good.
-It's all about your lives (see: making nWoD games work). Indeed, each episode (session) should be vaguely thematic and everyone playing it knows where the baddie will pop up, because it's all related. A new _____ store opens in town? THAT'S OWNED BY THE DARK KINGDOM. A side character crops up and talks about their love life? GALAXIA'S FORCES WILL GIVE THEM SHIT.

On the other hand, Utena would be all about mental vulnerability and emotional trauma, and an individual relationship determining whether or not you can even draw your sword... also everything is backstabbing and Just According to Keikaku*.

Kampfer would be:

-A class-based thing (in a broad sense, where the classes are actually fairly similar, but "I HAVE A SWORD", "I HAVE A KUSARIGAMA TYPE THING", "I HAVE A GUN" and "I THROW FIRE" are the four fighting styles. That is it.)
-Mandatory unkillable mascots that occasionally give information
-Love trianglesseptagons
-A vague level of mystery and investigation. It'd be combat heavy, but the combat tends to be almost routine stuff that delays you - and then "dice don't really get used here" events also happen, which should generally be entertaining, but also slowing progress down.

Kill La Kill would be more of a "pick a derpy theme. ANYTHING WILL DO. That is now your gimmick, so pick a suite of related powers." And would be full of high-impact fights. If you're letting the players all have Sanketsu-level godrobes, then yes, it's also winner-takes-all with the players mugging other people for their magical clothes for a power up.

So if you want a particular one, you could have a system that does that, or you could grab the closest system (which could easily be M&M or something) and just apply some specific houserules to enforce those genre conventions. If you want all of them in together, then you start with some mescaline and see where it takes you from there.

*Translator Note: Keikaku means plan!

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:30 pm

The Guyver is another transformation hero that would fit in

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:47 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:The Sailor Moon RPG was terribad, but it did exist. Other than that, it really does seem like you could do Magical Girls as super heroes or urban fantasy witches without difficulty.

-Username17

Oh mother of all that is holy yes Sailor Moon RPG was bad. It actually ended real-world friendships it was so bad.

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Let's talk design- magical girl RPGs

Let's talk design- magical girl RPGs

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