Let's talk design- magical girl RPGs
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Master
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:48 am
Let's talk design- magical girl RPGs
To my knowledge there has never been a dedicated magical girl RPG that has actually been sold for money. There have been a few spinoffs- the Sailor Moon RPG was bolted onto the tri stat system, there are a few notes about magical girls in various anime games, and there are certainly free games posted on the interwebs by random people. But that's as close as we've ever come.
I wonder why that is? The magical girl genre is ridiculously compatible with tabletop gaming. You've got a team of superheroes who need to fight an unambiguously evil empire full of minions, the heroes generally have similar power sets with enough customability to be unique but enough overlap to fight the same monsters, and there are plenty of Mcguffins to look for to make a long campaign not get stale. Everything you need is right in the basic premise of the genre.
So is there a reason why nobody makes magical girl RPGs? Is it simply because adult men- the largest demographic- feels uncomfortable playing that type of game? Is it because systems like BESM do a good enough job emulating the genre that a dedicated system isn't required?
Regardless, let's talk about how a magical girl RPG would be unique as opposed to other systems. I personally have a few mechanics that I'd like to see in that kind of game, like a determination roll instead of hit points. Generally any attack that actually hits a magical girl knocks them down- whether or not that puts them out of the fight completely depends on how much determination they can muster to get back up again. Actual damage to their body is secondary and usually just disappears at the end of the fight. Knockback would also be a pretty big consideration, as well as some sort of super bar to generate purification or ultimate attacks.
Another thing that would be cool is emphasizing teamwork. Like, hardcore emphasizing teamwork. If you're next to an ally, you should be able to push them out of the way of attacks, combine your attacks with theirs, motivate them, add your own elemental effects to their options, shit like that. Because enemies will have knockback, a big part of combat will be enemies trying to separate your team to make you weaker while your team tries to support each other as much as possible to counter that. That would be an interesting combat dynamic, I think.
Anyone else have ideas they'd like to see in a magical girl game?
I wonder why that is? The magical girl genre is ridiculously compatible with tabletop gaming. You've got a team of superheroes who need to fight an unambiguously evil empire full of minions, the heroes generally have similar power sets with enough customability to be unique but enough overlap to fight the same monsters, and there are plenty of Mcguffins to look for to make a long campaign not get stale. Everything you need is right in the basic premise of the genre.
So is there a reason why nobody makes magical girl RPGs? Is it simply because adult men- the largest demographic- feels uncomfortable playing that type of game? Is it because systems like BESM do a good enough job emulating the genre that a dedicated system isn't required?
Regardless, let's talk about how a magical girl RPG would be unique as opposed to other systems. I personally have a few mechanics that I'd like to see in that kind of game, like a determination roll instead of hit points. Generally any attack that actually hits a magical girl knocks them down- whether or not that puts them out of the fight completely depends on how much determination they can muster to get back up again. Actual damage to their body is secondary and usually just disappears at the end of the fight. Knockback would also be a pretty big consideration, as well as some sort of super bar to generate purification or ultimate attacks.
Another thing that would be cool is emphasizing teamwork. Like, hardcore emphasizing teamwork. If you're next to an ally, you should be able to push them out of the way of attacks, combine your attacks with theirs, motivate them, add your own elemental effects to their options, shit like that. Because enemies will have knockback, a big part of combat will be enemies trying to separate your team to make you weaker while your team tries to support each other as much as possible to counter that. That would be an interesting combat dynamic, I think.
Anyone else have ideas they'd like to see in a magical girl game?
A Man In Black wrote:I do not want people to feel like they can never get rid of their Guisarme or else they can't cast Evard's Swarm Of Black Tentacleguisarmes.
Voss wrote:Which is pretty classic WW bullshit, really. Suck people in and then announce that everyone was a dogfucker all along.
- Josh_Kablack
- King
- Posts: 5318
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: Online. duh
Well my first question would be to define precisely how the Magical Girl genre differs from more mainstream comic book superheroes?
I mean obviously the secret identity defaults to "Japanese schoolgirl" instead of "billionaire playboy" or "ace reporter", but what are the more meaningful differences in genre conventions?
Once you can answer that, my next question is whether those are meaningfully different enough to warrant a designing a whole new system from the ground up, or if things could just be handled as a supplement for M&M / Champions / d20 / Bear World?
I mean obviously the secret identity defaults to "Japanese schoolgirl" instead of "billionaire playboy" or "ace reporter", but what are the more meaningful differences in genre conventions?
Once you can answer that, my next question is whether those are meaningfully different enough to warrant a designing a whole new system from the ground up, or if things could just be handled as a supplement for M&M / Champions / d20 / Bear World?
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
-
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:44 am
- Location: 3rd Avenue
You need to have epic fights with epic super attacks. Then, when the fight reaches the peak of intensity, you need to show your enemies the power of love so everyone can stop fighting and become friends.
Oh, then you are an idiot. Because infected slut princess has never posted anything worth reading at any time.
-
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!
Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!
Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
]I want him to tongue-punch my box.
The divine in me says the divine in you should go fuck itself.
Is this different from Maid?
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
-
- Invincible Overlord
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am
Uncomfortable isn't the right word for it. Restricted might be a better one.spongeknight wrote:So is there a reason why nobody makes magical girl RPGs? Is it simply because adult men- the largest demographic- feels uncomfortable playing that type of game?
Let's face it, the very name of the magical girl genre imposes a really restrictive set of thematic schticks. Urbanite female teenagers is a narrow subset of superpowered action-adventure concepts. You frankly have a higher chance of getting to play Sailor Moon in a Teen Titans game than playing Sailor Moon in a Sailor Moon game. That by itself is a huge problem with trying to adapt the magical girl genre to a sustainable TTRPG. There's also the bigger problem that some of its selling points (cute girls in cute outfits saying and singing cute things) doesn't translate very well to the medium. But probably the biggest problem is that its major thematic elements are already done and probably better by its parent genre. The power of friendship and love, the adolescence metaphor, and the call to adventure tropes have been done at least as well by generic superhero fiction. We have the original Teen Titans series, Spider-Man, and X-Men. Magical girl shows that do their primary thematic elements better than generic superhero fiction tend to stray pretty far from their magical girl routes -- Puella and Simoun come to mind.
And, again, Teen Titans would still feel like Teen Titans even if Sailor Moon was a part of their team and got her own plot arcs. Sailor Moon might grumble at how there's too much testosterone and roughhousing and not enough J-Pop (even with the HHPA theme song) and girltalk for her tastes, but she can't exactly say "as a WoD-style cosmopolitan vampyre, these ultraviolent murder-hobo D&D-styled adventures aren't letting me develop in the way I like". She'd have to argue over minutae like Starfire's skirt not being frilly enough and the lasers being the wrong color.
Not to say that agitating over mere aesthetic minutiae is in of itself a disqualifying factor for making a work of fiction, but that is the hill you have to be prepared to die on. Magical Girl RPGs have yet to make a more compelling case as to why we should accept their restrictive spin on superhero tropes than 'Don't you want to roleplay a Wedding Peach OC'?
Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
-
- Master
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:48 am
Not a lot, really. The newer concepts of the magical girl shows (like Pretty Cure) take a lot of inspiration from the sentai genre, which is just teams of superheroes from Japan. There isn't a compelling reason why you couldn't run a game of that in HERO, other than enforcing some mandatory theme-based restrictions on powers (you must have a transformation, ect.).Josh_Kablack wrote:Well my first question would be to define precisely how the Magical Girl genre differs from more mainstream comic book superheroes?
The reason to have a dedicated magical girl RPG would basically be a campaign setting, slightly more specific and applicable rules, and the art to establish the tone and feel of the game.
A Man In Black wrote:I do not want people to feel like they can never get rid of their Guisarme or else they can't cast Evard's Swarm Of Black Tentacleguisarmes.
Voss wrote:Which is pretty classic WW bullshit, really. Suck people in and then announce that everyone was a dogfucker all along.
-
- 1st Level
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:05 pm
Magical girls and superheroes only overlap in the "magical girl warrior" subgenre, but the MG genre is a lot bigger than that, from stories about idol singers (think Jem) to novella to slice-of-life.Josh_Kablack wrote:Well my first question would be to define precisely how the Magical Girl genre differs from more mainstream comic book superheroes?
There was this game called Witch Girls (I think?) was was marketed to little girls, seems like the tool for the job.
Last edited by Dogbert on Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
I feel compelled out of masochism to mention that Nanoha RPG that I'm never going to finish.
Anyway I'm struggling to think of any big reason why a generic system of your choice would have major problems telling magical girl stories. I'm also sort of dubious that "generic Mahou Shojo" RPG would be all that different from a generic superhero RPG. Kinomoto Sakura, Kaname Madoka, and Takamachi Nanoha are the first three magical girls I can name off the top of my head and they live in radically different stories.
Anyway I'm struggling to think of any big reason why a generic system of your choice would have major problems telling magical girl stories. I'm also sort of dubious that "generic Mahou Shojo" RPG would be all that different from a generic superhero RPG. Kinomoto Sakura, Kaname Madoka, and Takamachi Nanoha are the first three magical girls I can name off the top of my head and they live in radically different stories.
-
- 1st Level
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:05 pm
There was a parody game using world of darkness rules called "Senshi: The Merchandising," which had classes based on various 90's magical girl shows (magical warriors, magical knights, magical idol singers, wedding warriors, tuxedo warriors, espers, holy thieves, fairy princesses, card captors, good witches/warlocks) to give some diversity.
-
- Journeyman
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 7:53 pm
Re: Let's talk design- magical girl RPGs
Yes. If one of my gaming bros suggested playing a magical girl RPG, there would probably be a long awkward pause, then we'd go back to playing D&D.spongeknight wrote:So is there a reason why nobody makes magical girl RPGs? Is it simply because adult men- the largest demographic- feels uncomfortable playing that type of game?
Well, an important thing to remember is that the Magical Girl genre is actually more flexible than people might initially think.
Panty and Stocking are Magical Girls, but they're Lustful/Gluttonous angels rather than schoolgirls (well, except for that one episode... or... two episodes?)
Cutie Honey is a magical girl anime through and through, she's just an android with a bunch of different modes rather than a schoolgirl with a single transformation.
Hell, there's also a web animation where a woman finds out her boyfriend is a magical "girl" and a webcomic with, I'm pretty sure, a male anime nerd gaining the typical magical girl powers, complete with magic sex change.
Also...
Oh, and there totally was an rpg about fighting an unambiguous force of evil and their evil minions of corruption and badness after a start of combat transformation sequence.
It was called Werewolf the Apocalypse.
Panty and Stocking are Magical Girls, but they're Lustful/Gluttonous angels rather than schoolgirls (well, except for that one episode... or... two episodes?)
Cutie Honey is a magical girl anime through and through, she's just an android with a bunch of different modes rather than a schoolgirl with a single transformation.
Hell, there's also a web animation where a woman finds out her boyfriend is a magical "girl" and a webcomic with, I'm pretty sure, a male anime nerd gaining the typical magical girl powers, complete with magic sex change.
Also...
It was called Werewolf the Apocalypse.
Last edited by Prak on Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Generally, if a magical girl anime has something noteworthy that makes it different from regular super hero teams, that very same thing makes it different from other magical girl anime. Do you really want a party that consists of Ryuuka, Nanoha, Utena, Sailor Moon and the Witchblade?
(The answer to that should be yes, but if your system caters to all of the above, it also probably caters to Iron Man, Wonder Woman, Ghost Rider and [Gundam Pilot of Choice].)
(The answer to that should be yes, but if your system caters to all of the above, it also probably caters to Iron Man, Wonder Woman, Ghost Rider and [Gundam Pilot of Choice].)
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
- OgreBattle
- King
- Posts: 6820
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am
If you feel the theme is too limited then broaden it to include other transformation heroes
So you can play as...
-Super Sentai/Power Rangers
-Kamenrider
-Sailor Moon
-Pretty Cure
and then your expansion adds Ultraman and Megazords.
So you can play as...
-Super Sentai/Power Rangers
-Kamenrider
-Sailor Moon
-Pretty Cure
and then your expansion adds Ultraman and Megazords.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
- RadiantPhoenix
- Prince
- Posts: 2668
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:33 pm
- Location: Trudging up the Hill
- OgreBattle
- King
- Posts: 6820
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/11/11/p ... -a-wombat/
New show about magical boys and the fairy wombat that guides them
New show about magical boys and the fairy wombat that guides them
-
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 898
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:35 am
The best part is that you can unironically declare that you will punish them in the name of the Moon Gaia.Prak wrote: Oh, and there totally was an rpg about fighting an unambiguous force of evil and their evil minions of corruption and badness after a start of combat transformation sequence.
It was called Werewolf the Apocalypse.
If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
-
- Knight
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:02 am
The important difference I see between superheroes and magical girls is that in the genre, you have much more slice of life action. Peter Parker has a job and, Champions terms, Dependent NPCs, but they're window dressing. Sailor Scouts spend most of the episode dealing with friends, school and life events.
Slice-of-life, in the realm of games you pay money for and get a nominally feature-complete product, tends to be in the realm of Bear Worldy stuff. Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine, a game I paid money for, is a bit more bearable than that, but its still pretty hipster and fluff-dense compared to its sparse amount of actual rules. It's what I would probably go for for running something slice-of-life with occasional fights though, like Magical Girl or Persona 3/4 or what have you.
Slice-of-life, in the realm of games you pay money for and get a nominally feature-complete product, tends to be in the realm of Bear Worldy stuff. Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine, a game I paid money for, is a bit more bearable than that, but its still pretty hipster and fluff-dense compared to its sparse amount of actual rules. It's what I would probably go for for running something slice-of-life with occasional fights though, like Magical Girl or Persona 3/4 or what have you.
That actually raises a good question. What's the bear minimum to still be a Magical Girl work? What would people expect to see vrs want to see in a Magical Girl game?
Transformation sequences are not something you need mechanics for, really. Unambiguously evil villains can be found in virtually any game. What would make a game a Magical Girl game?
Transformation sequences are not something you need mechanics for, really. Unambiguously evil villains can be found in virtually any game. What would make a game a Magical Girl game?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Well if you're going Sailor Moon for instance, here are some things you want:
On the other hand, Utena would be all about mental vulnerability and emotional trauma, and an individual relationship determining whether or not you can even draw your sword... also everything is backstabbing and Just According to Keikaku*.
Kampfer would be:
Kill La Kill would be more of a "pick a derpy theme. ANYTHING WILL DO. That is now your gimmick, so pick a suite of related powers." And would be full of high-impact fights. If you're letting the players all have Sanketsu-level godrobes, then yes, it's also winner-takes-all with the players mugging other people for their magical clothes for a power up.
So if you want a particular one, you could have a system that does that, or you could grab the closest system (which could easily be M&M or something) and just apply some specific houserules to enforce those genre conventions. If you want all of them in together, then you start with some mescaline and see where it takes you from there.
*Translator Note: Keikaku means plan!
-Love is an actual force of power that can keep you going (heroines), be used as a beam weapon (heroines) or cause you to instantly lose (villains).
-Talking is just a thing people do all the time, it doesn't take an action. Whether people are giving advice to each other in the middle of a fight or the enemy patiently waits for you to finish your speech.
-The closest you can ever get to true evil is a malevolent force that corrupts good people. You can free them from it without killing them. People can always be good.
-It's all about your lives (see: making nWoD games work). Indeed, each episode (session) should be vaguely thematic and everyone playing it knows where the baddie will pop up, because it's all related. A new _____ store opens in town? THAT'S OWNED BY THE DARK KINGDOM. A side character crops up and talks about their love life? GALAXIA'S FORCES WILL GIVE THEM SHIT.
-Talking is just a thing people do all the time, it doesn't take an action. Whether people are giving advice to each other in the middle of a fight or the enemy patiently waits for you to finish your speech.
-The closest you can ever get to true evil is a malevolent force that corrupts good people. You can free them from it without killing them. People can always be good.
-It's all about your lives (see: making nWoD games work). Indeed, each episode (session) should be vaguely thematic and everyone playing it knows where the baddie will pop up, because it's all related. A new _____ store opens in town? THAT'S OWNED BY THE DARK KINGDOM. A side character crops up and talks about their love life? GALAXIA'S FORCES WILL GIVE THEM SHIT.
Kampfer would be:
-A class-based thing (in a broad sense, where the classes are actually fairly similar, but "I HAVE A SWORD", "I HAVE A KUSARIGAMA TYPE THING", "I HAVE A GUN" and "I THROW FIRE" are the four fighting styles. That is it.)
-Mandatory unkillable mascots that occasionally give information
-Love trianglesseptagons
-A vague level of mystery and investigation. It'd be combat heavy, but the combat tends to be almost routine stuff that delays you - and then "dice don't really get used here" events also happen, which should generally be entertaining, but also slowing progress down.
-Mandatory unkillable mascots that occasionally give information
-Love trianglesseptagons
-A vague level of mystery and investigation. It'd be combat heavy, but the combat tends to be almost routine stuff that delays you - and then "dice don't really get used here" events also happen, which should generally be entertaining, but also slowing progress down.
So if you want a particular one, you could have a system that does that, or you could grab the closest system (which could easily be M&M or something) and just apply some specific houserules to enforce those genre conventions. If you want all of them in together, then you start with some mescaline and see where it takes you from there.
*Translator Note: Keikaku means plan!
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
- OgreBattle
- King
- Posts: 6820
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am
-
- Prince
- Posts: 2606
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:43 pm
Oh mother of all that is holy yes Sailor Moon RPG was bad. It actually ended real-world friendships it was so bad.FrankTrollman wrote:The Sailor Moon RPG was terribad, but it did exist. Other than that, it really does seem like you could do Magical Girls as super heroes or urban fantasy witches without difficulty.
-Username17