What are the 'core 11' Tome PHB classes?
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OgreBattle
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What are the 'core 11' Tome PHB classes?
There's a lot of homebrew Tome content from various denners, but if you could choose 11 of them to create a 'D&D 3.Den Player's Handbook', what 11 would you pick? You can think of it in terms of what you'd personally want to see, or what you think 'the masses' would tolerate.
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Josh_Kablack
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Conduit
Fighter
Soldier
Totemist
Edit: gotta add Tome Monk
And then I have to think about how other things fit into the settng. The White Mage is more universal than standard PHB clerics, but also less customizable. I'm partial to the Fire Mage and Snowscaper, but those also have limited customization and probably aren't versatile enough to warrant "core" inclusion.
Fighter
Soldier
Totemist
Edit: gotta add Tome Monk
And then I have to think about how other things fit into the settng. The White Mage is more universal than standard PHB clerics, but also less customizable. I'm partial to the Fire Mage and Snowscaper, but those also have limited customization and probably aren't versatile enough to warrant "core" inclusion.
Last edited by Josh_Kablack on Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
Monk gets lots and lots of love. And for good reason.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Whipstitch
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I've gotten pretty mixed reactions to the tome soldier. Much like the tome monk it's a class where much of the power comes from stacking up marginal advantages until suddenly you end up with Voltron. This sometimes results in MC butthurt because oftentimes they just don't quite see the pain train you're going to bring online coming. For example, people have gotten used to ignoring piddly bonuses to armor and ACP negation but that changes quick when they realize ogres need a 19 or 20 just to hit your lowbie ass.
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OgreBattle
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"Men at arms"
-Fighter
-Barbarian
-Soulborn as Paladin replacement
"Fast Dudes"
-Monk
-Rogue (does it need a boost? Like maybe combine it with features from the Tome assassin)
"Casters"
-Sphere Mage as Wizard replacement
-Totemist as Sorcerer replacement
"Other"
-Gadgeteer
-Conduit as Warlock replacement, open to all races to use
The only thing I'm missing is the divine casters. Was there a sphere using variant for clerics and druids made on TGD?
-Fighter
-Barbarian
-Soulborn as Paladin replacement
"Fast Dudes"
-Monk
-Rogue (does it need a boost? Like maybe combine it with features from the Tome assassin)
"Casters"
-Sphere Mage as Wizard replacement
-Totemist as Sorcerer replacement
"Other"
-Gadgeteer
-Conduit as Warlock replacement, open to all races to use
The only thing I'm missing is the divine casters. Was there a sphere using variant for clerics and druids made on TGD?
What would probably be best - divided not by the shape of the thing held in their hand, but based on whether you grab one and play it as a beginner or need to learn more about the game. Note that nothing is Fighter/Wizard level of "master your knowledge", but some things require more knowledge of Combat Manoeuvres, Status Effects and combinations of abilities.
-Assassin (Advanced Class)
-Berserker/Barbarian (Beginner Class)
-Fire Mage (Beginner Class)
-Jester (Advanced Class)
-Knight (Beginner Class)
-Monk (Advanced Class?)
-Samurai (Advanced Class?)
-Soulborn (Beginner Class)
-Spherelock (Beginner Class?)
-Totemist (Advanced Class?)
The final place should probably be a Marshall or White Mage or something. But I'm also fond of the Shadow Warrior, perhaps a bit too specific?
-Assassin (Advanced Class)
-Berserker/Barbarian (Beginner Class)
-Fire Mage (Beginner Class)
-Jester (Advanced Class)
-Knight (Beginner Class)
-Monk (Advanced Class?)
-Samurai (Advanced Class?)
-Soulborn (Beginner Class)
-Spherelock (Beginner Class?)
-Totemist (Advanced Class?)
The final place should probably be a Marshall or White Mage or something. But I'm also fond of the Shadow Warrior, perhaps a bit too specific?
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...You Lost Me
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I made a D&D knockoff for my table, and it contains:
- RoW Barbarian
- ToF Conduit
- Manxome's Curator
- Kaelik's Elementalist
- DCon Monk
- RoW Samurai
- Frank's Soldier
- Frank's Soulborn
- Frank Totemist
- Cleric / Druid / Wizard
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
I don't think it's in place of the bard, or a replacement. I think it's just one of the classes, a Blaster For Beginners.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
There's a tome version of bard on wiki, though. It is based on Frank's bard.
http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Bard,_Tome ... e_Class%29
http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Bard,_Tome ... e_Class%29
That Bard has a lot going on, a little too much for my taste. Selectable supernaturalesque tricks, based on different performance kits, with spellcasting on top. Also I personally wish Bards were less tied to Perform, but that's just me.
Personally, if I were king, I'd just staple the spellcasting of a PHB Sorcerer onto the chassis of a PHB Bard and call it done.
Personally, if I were king, I'd just staple the spellcasting of a PHB Sorcerer onto the chassis of a PHB Bard and call it done.
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OgreBattle
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Bard and Paladin strike me as similar party buffing classes, except the Paladin is more stabbing focused and uses divine magic, while the bard is less stabbing focused and uses arcane magic.
So the Paladin is in the front buffing and stabbing, while the Bard is behind the paladin Buffing and occasionally stabbing if something reaches that far.
Was there ever a revamping of Rogue for Tome? The simplest fix I can think of is giving them [Skill] feats in a similar manner that fighter has [Combat] feats, being skill monkeys and all.
http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_Skill_Feats
So the Paladin is in the front buffing and stabbing, while the Bard is behind the paladin Buffing and occasionally stabbing if something reaches that far.
Was there ever a revamping of Rogue for Tome? The simplest fix I can think of is giving them [Skill] feats in a similar manner that fighter has [Combat] feats, being skill monkeys and all.
http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_Skill_Feats
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Josh_Kablack
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After seeing three Dungeonomicon Thief Acrobats flail around in three different games, I tried a power-up revision which incorporated the Tome Skill feats as bonus feats: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=52419OgreBattle wrote: Was there ever a revamping of Rogue for Tome? The simplest fix I can think of is giving them [Skill] feats in a similar manner that fighter has [Combat] feats, being skill monkeys and all.
http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_Skill_Feats
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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radthemad4
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Other than Josh's Thief Acrobat Upgrade, there's one made by Miryafa and one made by erik.OgreBattle wrote:Was there ever a revamping of Rogue for Tome? The simplest fix I can think of is giving them [Skill] feats in a similar manner that fighter has [Combat] feats, being skill monkeys and all.
http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_Skill_Feats
Balance is something I can't rate, but Miryafa's one is way too fiddly and has too many out of turn actions for my taste. I like erik's one, but from level 5 onwards it's more of a 'Shadow Rogue' which might be a deal breaker.
Last edited by radthemad4 on Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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BearsAreBrown
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Well, a Cleric -can- be any alignment.
Whereas classically, Paladins as Good Guys Only.
[Yes, I know, alternative alignments/classes/etc. ]
Whereas classically, Paladins as Good Guys Only.
[Yes, I know, alternative alignments/classes/etc. ]
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
I remember when we were working on the Kitchen Sink Fantasy game, Frank wanted to combine the Cleric and the Paladin for political correctness and game mechanic reasons. The Cleric Archer/beatstick Cleric covers the Paladin's gimmick mechanically, so I'd go with the Soulborn over the Paladin. Cleric is the holy warrior, Knight is the chivalrous questor and the Soulborn is the planar avenger.
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K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
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NineInchNall
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Using Lokathor's format.
| Normal Set | Tome Set |
| Barbarian | Tome Barbarian |
| Bard | Beguiler |
| Cleric | Cleric |
| Druid | Druid |
| Fighter | Tome Soldier |
| Monk | Tome Monk |
| Paladin | Tome Soulborn |
| Ranger | Tome Totemist |
| Rogue | Shadow Warrior |
| Sorcerer Psion | Untamed Psychic |
| Wizard | Wizard |
Last edited by NineInchNall on Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
Current pet peeves:
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
Most of my selections are lined up so that the Tome version is mostly a strict improvement over the SRD version.Cynic wrote:WHy is the fire mage in place of the bard? Wouldn't thematically the Marshall be a better fit for that? the marshall is also a better skill monkey.
The Bard just isn't super great and doesn't have a solid Tome version that I know of, but the Fire Mage is a really cool class. Also, it lets the "core" classes introduce the idea that classes don't all need to go to 20, and that many people will be best served or even required to prestige class eventually, which is a good idea for people to keep in mind.