Why no Classplosion in 5e?

[Username17]

We mentioned when talking about 4th edition what a fucking travesty it was that there wasn't a Classplosion. Simply put: 4e's game system simply couldn't handle there not being over a hundred classes. 4e fucking killed itself by not bringing out the new classes fast and furious.

Now 5th edition is a crap game. But one of the ways it is better than 4th edition is that it does not need dozens of new classes. But it still needs something. They went to print with 12 classes. And that was minimally sufficient to be more than the 3e PHB and make it look like they gave a shit. It did not repeat the mistakes of 4e of producing only 8 classes on release. But after doing that, there's fucking nothing on the schedule. No new classes.

The claim seems to be that producing new sorcerous origins and class kits and shit. This is bullshit. Obviously, they'd need to do something like this:

1

The gates to the Dwarvish halls strain as the fiendish allies of the Durzagons pound with their infernal battering rams. As cracks begin to appear, fire imps begin squeezing through. The call to arms is put out and you rush to battle. You are going to assist in the defense of the Dwarvish halls by...

• Personally slaying the imps before they can torch the defenses. Go to 2.
• Providing support for the defenders of the hall. Go to 3.
• Switching up between supporting the defenders and attacking the imps as circumstances dictate. Go to 4.

2

The imps are running around wildly, leaving trails of cinders in their wake. You're going to try to keep imps from being able to escape You begin by...

• Charge for the door and try to hold the line. Go to 5.
• Stay back and take out marauding imps from range. Go to 8.
• Stay around the edges skirmishing to make sure none of the imps get anywhere dangerous. Go to 11.

3

The best way for you to assist in the defense of the stronghold is to use your support abilities to tip the tide of battle in your favor. This is because...

• By rallying the defenders, the attack can be thwarted. Go to 6.
• By distracting the fiends, the attack can be thwarted. Go to 9.
• By bringing in more troops, the attack can be thwarted. Go to 12.

4

At any given moment, you might be aiding your allies or you might be attacking the imps. What is the crucial difference one moment to the next?

• It depends on what abilities you've already used. Go to 7.
• It depends on the unpredictable state of magic at the time. Go to 10.
• It depends on which abilities you prepared in advance fit the current situation. Go to 13.

5

The door bursts asunder and the fire demon lurches into view. You've put yourself in harm's way, right in the middle of the path of the enemy leader. This is perfect because...

• You're the protagonist, and more able to survive this onslaught than your compatriots. Go to 21.
• You've placed a ward on your shield that can hold the demon for a few crucial moments. Go to 20.
• You're powered by rage, and nothing gets you angrier than being set on fire. Go to 16.
• You have a sacred mission and your divine inspiration may only be helpful up close to the enemy. Go to 26.
• The ancestor spirits which guide and protect you approve of bravery. The Tengu and Human Samurai are in Peaches and Pearls.
• It would be a waste to swear a blood oath to slay a lesser foe than this. The Grimlock and Orcish Avenger are in Setting Suns.

6

You need to raise the spirits of your allies. You are going to do this by...

• Casting a spell that grants them divine protection. Go to 17.
• Give a rallying cry and point out a weakness in the enemy assault. Go to 23.
• Speak a word of power while drawing your own weapon to inspire the others. Go to 15.
• Burning some of your own blood to give strength to your compatriots. The Aaracockra and Hobgoblin Blood Magus are in Setting Suns.

7

When are you going to be attacking with your weapon?

• When you've used up your reserves of psionic power. Go to 27.
• While you are building up power words to unleash a spellsong crescendo. Go to 15.
• If you've exhausted the patience of the gods and spirits and you cannot yet cast another spell. Go to 17.
• Whenever your divine inspiration suggests no better option. Go to 26.
• All the time. But you have trick arrows and more traditional arrows. The Lizardfolk and Elven Seeker are in Setting Suns.
• Hardly ever. If your battlefield altering secrets have been exhausted, you can still pick off enemies with your shadowbolts. The Dark One and Human Shadowcaster are in Sandstorm.

8

You maintain your distance and begin dropping foes. You do this by...

• Accurately picking off imps from a hiding place with your crossbow and your own deadly accuracy. Go to 14.
• Your own dark magic, with minor curses to snuff out minor opponents and draining yourself to use more powerful invocations against stronger one. Go to 30.
• Harrying their flanks with a great many arrows as you continue to move into a flanking position. Go to 28.
• Using the deadly spells you prepared to cut them down. Go to 31.
• Drawing upon the elemental forces that are available to channel at the moment to rain destruction on your enemies. Go to 19.

9

You need to do something to break up the enemy assault.

• That's why you prepared a magical trick to create illusions to confuse them all. Go to 22.
• You spring a trap on the forward imps, forcing the rest to proceed with caution. Go to 29.
• You draw power out of your undead servants to fear the hearts of the imps with fear. Go to 25.
• You curse the imps and possibly even drain yourself by putting some of your own blood into your magical pact. Go to 30.
• You freeze the ground underneath the imps or make it begin to snow inside. The Frostling and Elven Snowscaper are in Frostburn.

10

You draw your magic from...

• The camaraderie of totemic spirits of Nature. Go to 18.
• The arcane flow of elemental powers. Go to 19.
• Fleeting glimpses of divine inspiration. Go to 26.
• The whisperings of nearby spirits. The Draconian and Goblin Shaman are in Flesh and Sand.

11

The best way to skirmish your opponents is to...

• Lay traps that limit enemy options. Go to 29.
• Switch between ranged weapons and melee weapons as needed as you move into position. Go to 28.
• Move quickly and hit and run with innovative combat styles to stun and cripple your opponents. Go to 24.
• Fight defensively, parrying strikes and drawing your opponents out of position. The Changeling and Drow Swashbuckler are in Stormwrack.
• Use your ninja magic to become virtually invisible and pick off enemies one backstab at a time. The Nezumi and the Halfling Ninja are in Peaches and Pearls.

12

Your soldiers are...

• Loyal to you because of your great cunning and leadership skills. Go to 23.
• Loyal to you because they are skeletons and ghosts given life and form through the power of your spirit. Go to 25.
• Loyal to you because they are plants and animals and you are an anointed speaker for Nature. Go to 18.
• Loyal to you because your business acumen and administration skills pay their wages. The Mongrelfolk Merchant and Halfling Merchant are in Stormwrack.
• Beyond questions of loyalty because they are clockwork constructs and golems that you created. The Clockwork and Dwarven Artificer are in Sandstorm.

13

There is a limit to how many abilities can be prepared. That's because...

• There are only so many traps and tricks that even someone like you can hide about your person. Go to 29.
• There are only so many spells you can memorize at a time. Go to 31.
• There are only so many potions you can consume before it all goes out of balance. The Vanara and Gnome Alchemist are in Peaches and Pearls.

14

You are an Assassin. Patience, precision, poison, and play most foul are in your professional parlance. By studying your opponents, you can find their weaknesses and take them out with extreme prejudice. You are not crassly destructive, you're a scholar of death. You don't just have a crossbow and a black cloak, you are also learned in a smattering of alchemy, necromancer, medicine, and shadow magic - anything to give you the edge in your chosen profession. Provided are:

• The Orcish Assassin. During the Reign of the Eye, all leaders served their masters until they died, creating a need for careful and exacting killers to mediate political disputes. The Great Betrayal was only possible because demonic loyalists were carefully and swiftly removed from the hierarchy. The assassin cults are very prestigious in Orcish society, and you have every intention of living up to the hype. Not that your targets will ever know who you are.
• The Drow Assassin. Even after joining the Accord of the Free Peoples, Drow society has politics that are brutal in the extreme. Many of the heads of the demon houses are unaging, and the only means of advancement is sometimes the death of a superior. To this day, a “Drow Promotion” is the term given for advancing in one's social status or career after the death of the previous holder of the position. Assassins are sponsored by all the major houses. The Drow are the source of many of the world's most innovative poisons and subtlest hand crossbows, and that is the kind of legacy of quality that you represent.

15

You are a Bard. Bards are part of an oral tradition and are able to speak many languages and know many stories and songs. But they are also warriors and magicians. You have mighty spell songs and great skill at arms. You have short words of power that you can use whilst fighting that inspire your allies and curse your enemies, and using them builds up towards a spellsong crescendo where you can stop fighting and sing to produce more powerful effects such as sonic explosions or mass confusion. Provided are:

• The Gnomish Bard. Gnomes have very keen senses and many of them have perfect pitch in addition to their famously good sense of smell. This natural affinity for tones matches an affinity for magic and makes the Gnome Bard a well known facet of their culture. Gnomish Bards rely heavily on their songs and trickery over their weapons, but they can and do still crack a whip or thrust a short sword.
• The Orcish Bard. Many of the Orcish tribes have few literate people in them, and the role of the oral historian and storyteller is hugely important in Orcish life. Orcish Bards are expected to defend the histories not only by telling and retelling them, but by physically beating those who would destroy them. The Orcs consider Bards to be very real and very martial defenders of the knowledge of their people and you take this responsibility and honor very seriously indeed.

16

You are a Berserker. A Berserker's greatest abilities are fueled by fury, and their fury is fueled by pain and destruction. Your place is on the front lines, because that is where you can most easily hurt and be hurt, the two things that provoke you to acts of greater courage. It's not all hitting things with an ax. You might turn into a bear or call upon the spirits of your ancestors if you have shown enough prowess in battle.

• The Orcish Berserker. Rage comes easily to the tusked folk, and wanton destruction is your path to heroism. Orcs break things. They are good at breaking things. You are good at breaking things and you are good at not being broken. The spirits show you favor because you show courage. You show courage because you are an Orc, and because even other Orcs think you are kind of crazy.
• The Dwarven Berserker. Dwarves dedicate themselves to totems of wrath for all kinds of reasons. Some of them do it to seek a death for themselves to atone for shame. Some of them do it because they wish to protect others more than they wish to protect themselves. There are several schools of Dwarvish Berserkers, with attitudes ranging from deathseeking to death dealing, and you are a product of one of them.

17

You are a Cleric. You can call upon spiritual aid, which mostly comes in the form of divination, healing, and protection. You cannot ask for any particular favor too often, however, and your individual powers must be rationed lest they exceed the patience of the gods. Of course, even without your magic, you're still able to hold a shield and raise a spear, you're nothing like helpless even when the gods leave you to your own devices. Provided are:

• The Human Cleric. Many see Humans a the leaders of the Free Peoples, having successfully liberated more lands from the Demon Lords than any other force. Certainly, Humans have shown that they are not satisfied to merely throw off the yoke of their oppressors and have been taken by a zeal to spread their way of life to the corners of the world still infested with demon loyalists. Many Humans turn to the power of the spirits and the gods to help them in their quest, and you are one of them.
• The Drow Cleric. The most respected people in Drow society are the priestesses of Lolth. Even Drow from low houses or no houses at all can rise in status by becoming favored by the demon goddess. Most Drow Clerics are women, though there is an occasional male chosen as well. Whatever your origins, you are a natural leader. You've been chosen by the Queen of Spiders to be someone who must be listened to.

18

You are a Druid. You have the power to command natural forces. Roots and wind, birds and stone come to your aid. Nature is fickle, and from moment to moment you seldom know what tools you have available to you. But Nature does provide, and it falls to you to determine how to use what is available to fullest effect. Maybe it's time for those roots to grow into thorn brambles? Maybe it's time for it to rain inside. Plants, beasts, earth, and weather, the four poles of the natural world ebb and flow, but something is always available to the resourceful Druid. Provided are:

• The Goblin Druid. Some would call the Goblins completely uncivilized, but they prefer to think of themselves as being more attuned to nature. Certainly, you are attuned to nature, you're a Druid. Most Goblins are on speaking terms with Worgs, and you are on speaking terms with all manner of beasts. And also on speaking terms with rocks and trees and the clouds in the sky.
• The Elvish Druid. The trees protected the Unconquered by providing them places to hide from aggressors and food while they were besieged. Veneration of nature runs deep in Elvish culture, and Druids are turned to as leaders and champions. You have a strong connection to the forest, both historically and personally, and the defenders of the woods will expect great things of you.

19

You're an Elementalist. You have control over the elements, though the power of each of the elements ebbs and flows chaotically. When an element is in ascendancy an Elementalist attuned to that element can do amazing things, and when that element is not... it may be best to use a different element for a while. Each Elementalist has two elements that they specialize in, and their access to either element is determined randomly each round. Thus with some time to wait for the flows to align you can pull off a wide variety of things, but in the middle of battle you may find yourself bending the elements in surprising ways.

• The Kobold Elementalist. You've long suspected that the mighty blood of dragons flows in your veins stronger than it does in other Kobolds. When you found yourself able to breathe fire, your suspicions were confirmed. You may be small, but you are scaly and destructive. The elements are yours to command, and your enemies will burn.
• The Dwarven Elementalist. Tied as they are to the earth and flame, Dwarves have a natural affinity for elemental magic. Still, some Dwarves draw upon the power of the Giants to use other elements, and it is not unheard of for Dwarven elementalists to specialize in water or air.

20

You are an Enchanter. You can place magical enchantments on things to improve them. You can make wards that protect things and enhancements that improve things in other ways. When one of your enchantments is ongoing, you can burn it to get an impressive instant effect, but it will take some time to put your enchantment back together once you've broken it. You fight with magically enhanced weapons and are protected by magically enhanced armor, and can discharge your enhancements to produce instantaneous effects.

• The Dwarven Enchanter. Dwarves have long taken an interest in crafting and forging, so it is almost cliche for one to take up enchantment. The runes you place onto your weapons are a mix of spells that are centuries old and new and innovative ones that have been custom made by you.
• The Gith Enchanter. Traditionally, Gith Enchanters place their wards into gems and beads which they tie into their hair or strap to their armor. This makes them easy to reach when they need to be discharged. The silver swords crafted by Gith Enchanters are justifiably famous.

21

You are a Hero. You are a warrior and a leader. You can perform incredible feats of strength and skill, and people turn to you for inspiration. You're highly resistant to most things, being passively hard to take out with swords and sorcery.You don't have to track much of anything in combat, because your specialty maneuvers can be used whenever you want. As the protagonist of the story, you also simply get more Narrative Imperative than other characters, so go out and take some chances! Provided are:

• The Hobgoblin Hero. The Khans demand just one thing: excellency. And you have it. You're able to excel at everything you put your mind to because you have cunning, strength, and steel on your side.
• The Gnomish Hero. Giants are among the greatest foes of the Gnomes, and Gnomish champions who can face these daunting foes are worthy of songs and stories. You are such a Gnome. You use your bravery, mobility, and maybe a bit of luck to fell foes many times your size, and earn applause from your people.

22

You are an Illusionist. You can create all manner of things, just so long as those things aren't real. You control the vertical and the horizontal, but only for a short period of time. An Illusionist prepares tricks that are expended when used. Once gone, it takes time to prepare new tricks. But each of an Illusionist's tricks are, at least potentially, very impressive. Minds can be changed, dangerous shadow beasts can be summoned. Some say that reality is an illusion, but to an Illusionist their illusions are reality. Provided are:

• The Gnome Illusionist. Gnomes take to illusion like an overwrought metaphor to poetic thingies. Gnomes don't just have extensive experience with the Shadow Realms and the Mirror Realms from which Illusion magic flow, they culturally regard trickery and deception as praiseworthy. Great schools of Illusionism are in the Gnome Warrens, and as a Gnome Illusionist you probably come from one. And even if you didn't, you can still prove that you did.
• The Tiefling Illusionist. While officially accepted, Tieflings are by their very nature still a bitter reminder of hundreds of years of occupation and atrocity. Through no fault of their own, Tieflings were literally born to be blamed for crimes committed generations before they were even alive. It is no surprise then that many Tieflings turn to the magic of trickery and deception to more easily live in a society that is deeply ambivalent about their existence.

23

You are a Marshal. Blessed with a talent for tactics and strategy, you are a natural leader. As the battlefield changes, you can spot openings and shout timely commands to your troops. You attract a retinue of men at arms, and excel at logistics. Provided are:

• The Human Marshal. Among all the Free Peoples, Humans are most frequently tapped as military leaders. Humans are just very good at figuring out ways to kill people, and many soldiers expect to follow a Human commander.
• The Kobold Marshal. Kobolds are the smallest of the Free Peoples, and it only through military discipline and clever tactics that the Kobolds have managed to hold onto their warrens against incursion from larger foes. The tactical acumen of Kobold Marshals is legendary, and your allies are eager to hear your plans.

24

You are a Monk. You follow a mystical warrior tradition that emphasizes the clarity of mind over raw physical strength. You have mastered many styles of combat that allow you to fight with or without weapons. In combat, you fight like a predator – moving quickly and debilitating enemies with carefully placed strikes. Your mystical discipline makes you resistant to magic and many of the hazards of the world. Provided are:

• The Hobgoblin Monk. The nomadic Hobgoblins regularly travel across the great plains and have frequent contact with the Bakemono of the Pearl Empire. Martial traditions of the Hobgoblins are mixtures of many styles from many lands, and you have mastered several. You can get where you need to be and disable enemies with your bare hands.
• The Gith Monk. Having freed themselves from the tentacled Mind Lords, the Gith consider themselves to be the first of the Free Peoples. The quest to eradicate their old masters is for some Gith all encompassing, and the path of the warrior Monk is well respected and well trod in Gith culture. The war monasteries of the Gith teach martial discipline and focusing of the mind. Most of them are located off-world, on floating islands in the void of Limbo. Monks have been on the front line of the war against the tentacled masters, and you are going to be invaluable against other threats in the future.

25

You are a Necromancer. You have a pool of Essentia that you can dynamically distribute between your necromantic minions. They can use the power that you give them to be stronger, tougher, or faster. But you can also use the power yourself to assist your minions with curses or to defend yourself. After all, death is nothing new for your minions, but you are not so easy to replace. Provided are:

• The Drow Necromancer. In many societies, necromancy is closely associated with the Demon Lords and has something of a bad name. In Drow society, that is not quite the stigma that it is among the other Free Peoples. Necromantic power is encouraged when it is seen among the youth of Drow settlements, and the powers of shadow are seen as aesthetically pleasing to the Dark Elves.
• The Human Necromancer. Few peoples think as deeply about death as Humans do. While necromancy has a poor reputation among Humans, the draw of necromancy to humanity is undeniable. Humans fear death, and they fear the magic of death. And they are drawn to it like moths to a flame. Others may not approve of your choices, but you know that they also envy you.

26

You are a Paladin. A Paladin is a knight armed and armored in steel and devotion. Paladins are warriors, but they also have magical maneuvers in addition to martial ones. A Paladin can heal and protect, but they cannot effectively plan ahead. Divine inspiration simply comes as it likes to, and the Paladin must make do with whatever is available at the time. A Paladin goes into the thick of it, making But if you have faith, the spirits will provide enough to achieve victory. Probably.

• The Goblin Paladin. You have heavy armor, a heavier duty, and mount with claws and fangs. The Goblins have a long relationship with the Worgs and many Goblins ride wolves. Goblin Paladins are usually cavaliers who ride ravenous beasts into battle, trusting in their divine mission to protect themselves and their allies as they charge their foes with lance and jaws.
• The Tiefling Paladin. Those demon houses which defected to the Accord have produced some of the most passionate crusaders for the Free Peoples. The Paladins of House Alu are well known for their devotion. Every Tiefling must ultimately choose to align themselves with their fiendish or their mortal ancestors, and you fight for the mortals with the zeal that only those who have chosen a side can possess.

27

You are a Psion. You can move things with your mind. Strict discipline and mental focus give you a reserve of mental power that you can use to affect yourself and the world around you. Psionic power deals in telepathy, telekinesis, and probability travel. Psions use weapons and usually use martial discipline to focus their mental techniques. A Psion who has exhausted their mental powers can regain them through rest and meditation, or they can fall back on their considerable skill with a weapon. Provided are:

• The Gith Psion. Since the revolution against their tentacled masters, the Gith have relied upon two things: their undaunted will and metal blades. Gith Psions have a rich tradition of psionic discipline and young Gith who show promise are trained to focus their swords with their minds – and to focus their minds with their swords. These psionic knights are well respected in Gith culture.
• The Goblin Psion. Most Goblins have little inclination towards psionic power. However, a small minority are very gifted psionically and begin hearing the thoughts of those around them before they learn to speak. These Goblins are almost universally self-taught as Psions and have idiosyncratic methods. Psionic Goblins are called Blues by other Goblins, as most of them have blue birth marks somewhere on their skin. Some of them are born with skin that is entirely blue.

28

You are a Ranger. People turn to you for your abilities as a scout and also for your battlefield prowess. You use your mobility to put distance between you and enemies who want to close, and to close the distance with enemies who want some alone time. You're equally at home with a scimitar or a bow and often switch weapons quickly as the tactical needs change. Provided are:

• The Elvish Ranger. Long at home in the forests, Elves are known as great trackers and fletchers - and it's Elves like you who establish that stereotype. You come from the deepest parts of the forests, the never conquered Old Groves. You have sharp eyes and a quiet step, both of which serve you well when you draw your old growth recurve bow.
• The Halfling Ranger. Halflings are not traditionally considered a fast people, yet in times of war they rely upon skirmishing and harrying their foes. Halflings use stealth and terrain, but also make significant use of mounts such as riding dogs and even great eagles. As a Halfling Ranger, you can ride a pony or a riding dog, getting all the mobility of your longer legged compatriots and more.

29

You are a Rogue. You are adept at stealth, scouting, and the finding and creation of traps. The contents of your knapsack may seem to just be ball bearings, some rags, a bottle of cider, and some string - but in your hands that is a deadly arsenal. Also you have like ten knives hidden about your person that they didn't notice. Provided are:

• The Halfling Rogue. The Halflings took great pride in liberating themselves with partisan activity during the scouring, and now sabotage and stealthy mayhem are elevated in Halfling culture to high art. You may be small and homey looking, but your innocent appearance hides a mind that quickly evaluates everything it sees as a potential threat.
• The Hobgoblin Rogue. Hobgoblins are a naturally quiet people. You use stealth and subtlety to accomplish your goals, and are very good at it. Even for a Hobgoblin.

30

You are a Warlock. You channel power from otherworldly sources. Each day you can draw up a new pact, which gives you different powers you can use. But the most powerful spells of your pact carry a price, they drain you physically, mentally, or spiritually to channel that much power. That's the pact, that's the "payment." All the power you get for free is to try to entice you to draw down just a little more power than you can handle. But you're too smart for that.

• The Tiefling Warlock. During the occupation, some people interbred with the conquerors. Your ancestors from this world did, and sometimes people are jerks to you about it. But having infernal blood in your veins isn't just about getting the stink eye from anti-demon zealots, it also makes it easy (or at least easier) to channel infernal power. You'll fight for this world, it's where you're from, it's where you keep all your stuff. But you'll use the infernal powers to do it. That's ironic, not merely unfortunate.
• The Halfling Warlock. During the occupation, infernal artifacts were left all over the Halfling lands. The Great Ironworks and the Blood Spire are the most famous, but every Halfling city is full of reminders of their time under Dispater's hoof. Using the magic of demons isn't easy for Halflings, nor is it thought well of by your countrymen, but it's available. Always and everywhere. You reached out and grabbed the dark power, and now you will show them that you can be the hero no one believed you could be.

31

You're a wizard. You have a spellbook out of which you can prepare a limited number of spells and cast them to your heart's content. Given time, you can memorize different spells. Wizard spells are useful in a lot of circumstances, and run the gamut from simple destruction to minor creation. Wizard spell books are written in ancient magical languages like Elvish, Infernal, and Draconic. As a Wizard, you are well versed in book learning and can translate texts written before the occupation. Depending on what spells you prepare, you could contribute to combat as a blaster or a support character, or something in between. Provided are:

• The Elvish Wizard. Hailing from a people with inborn magical talent, wizardry comes easily to you. Spellbooks have been written in High Elvish for centuries, and if you have anything to say about it they are going to continue.
• The Kobold Wizard. You were able to read the oldest language of magic shortly after hatching from your egg. Modern Kobold is spoken differently from Ancient Draconic, but it's written exactly the same. You've been studying the ancient lore since you were a small child, and you are a qualified expert on the subject. And you can go through your notes and prepare some spells that will literally knock peoples' socks off.

-Username17

[Josh_Kablack]

10/10 Would play this chargen again.

[Insomniac]

Cool chargen and it shows some gaps in the game so far.

There is no military leader or noble leader like a 3.5 Marshal or 4E Warlord apart from Bards with College of Valor.

There is no class that is a non-magical mounted combatant, like a worg/dire wolf outrider or a knight/cavalier.

There is nothing like a gladiator. I mean a real one, not b.s. options for Fighters and Barbarians but a real 1-20 Gladiator where you get to write "Gladiator" on your sheet.

There is no class like a Rogue but does things beyond sneak attacking, things like Scout or Cat Burglar or Acrobat.

There is no Psion yet.

No dedicated Gish class, just the Fighter Eldritch Knight option or College of Valor Bards.

There is no Charisma-based or Intelligence-based divine caster.

There is nothing like an Artificer or Magical Blacksmith or something like that.

There is not explicit support for Wizards apart from their traditions. More focused casters like Elementalists, Transmutationists, things that 3.5 provided with classes like Beguiler, Dread Necromancer and Warmage or Pathfinder did with more specialized caster classes like Summoner and Witch are not online yet.

Apart from Combat Maneuver Fighters and Monks there is nothing like classes from Tome of Battle.

There are no psionics options yet.

There is nothing like Blackguard, Hexblade, Antipaladin or non-Good aligned Paladins or things like Favored Soul yet.

There is nothing like a duelist or swashbuckler yet, apart from Fighter options. No dedicated class for that concept exists.

There are a good deal of gaps in what was presented. A PHB II could easily come out with another 10 to 15 classes and tons of new options for existing classes and variant abilities for races and new races.

For whatever reason, this is not scheduled for release within the year or even announced as something they are doing.

Say what you do about the system, but Pathfinder is the Oprah Winfrey of Splosions and that is why it took WOTC's money.

"You get a Splosion! And You get a splosion! And you and you and you! And we're all taking a vacation to Hawaii where we'll get even more Splosions!"

So they basically need to do something like a PHB II and some Complete Books.

[erik]

I was happy. I aimed for an elementalist and got it first try as it was obvious enough.

For character generation I kind of like the Origin Path in Rogue Trader where you are having a path of linked abilities/backgrounds where you swim down the line (really you swim upwards since you're going to start from your career).

I'd be game for branching options or a pie chart where you can also sample the neighboring pie pieces. Downside for those is that space is more limited for expansion options.

[Sakuya Izayoi]

I got elementalist as well, despite my limited D&D knowledge. I am satisfied.

[Aryxbez]

Loyal to you because your business acumen and administration skills pay their wages. The Mongrelfolk Merchant and Halfling Merchant are in Stormwrack.

I finally got that it was referring to theoretical "supplements" that this questionairre would then be pointing to. Either case, the above option sounds really fraggin awesome, and I wonder what a Mongrelfolk Mercant would be like. I get its like a "Mundane" Summoner character, kinda made me think of as being a "mob boss" as well.

So yeah, I agree a game like this could excite me to play a particular concept if/when worded in such a way. Especially since then RPG-fans will just trust the advice is as sound as the ruleset.

[Username17]

The concept there is that you're never ever going to provide complete coverage for class concepts for kitchen sink fantasy. No matter how many classes you make, there will always be concepts that slip through the cracks. Some of that is even perfectly OK. Some concepts like "Space Ranger" or whatever aren't things that most of your fanbase wants in the game. It's OK, even desirable, to leave that shit out for deeply optional expansion books or even for fans to write in themselves.

But what this also means is that you're going to want to hit the ground running with a lot of classes in the core rules (5e's 12 classes is the literal minimum number to be a serious offering in 2014). And perhaps more importantly that you're going to need to promise and deliver a steady stream of expansion classes. 4th edition D&D was actually right to deliver a promise of expansion material in the PHB, but of course that made it worse that no classplosion ever really came. The fact that 5e is promising and delivering nothing is so obviously wrong that it's hard to even talk about.

It would also, of course, be nice if the expansion material wasn't unbelievably terrible. Paizo is on basically the right track as far as producing a herd of books that each have a short list of expansion classes in them. It would be nice if more of them weren't hot garbage like the Samurai and Mesmerist though.

-Username17

[Dean]

There is no military leader or noble leader like a 3.5 Marshal or 4E Warlord apart from Bards with College of Valor.

And there never will be. A 5E character who's power was that he had a squad of 10 nobodies he led around would be the sky falling on the 5uckers heads. That would be their Pathfinder Summoner X10, it would be their Phantom Menace. It might singlehandedly ruin the edition. Once you wrote a class that just by existing would prove to everyone that they are worse than 10 random dudes the entire game would collapse. It destroys every character concept, every plotline, every 5E game.

The Leader would ruin an entire edition while the Necromancer stood behind him looking confused.

[Mask_De_H]

There is no military leader or noble leader like a 3.5 Marshal or 4E Warlord apart from Bards with College of Valor.

And there never will be. A 5E character who's power was that he had a squad of 10 nobodies he led around would be the sky falling on the 5uckers heads. That would be their Pathfinder Summoner X10, it would be their Phantom Menace. It might singlehandedly ruin the edition. Once you wrote a class that just by existing would prove to everyone that they are worse than 10 random dudes the entire game would collapse. It destroys every character concept, every plotline, every 5E game.

The Leader would ruin an entire edition while the Necromancer stood behind him looking confused.

The Marshal and the Warlord were martial buffers who never really got to actually lead tiny men (except if the Marshal took Leadership). I mean you can kind of swing it with a Paladin and a feat, but buffing as a thing is kinda dead in 5e. They kinda try to do It with certain BM maneuvers, but they suck.

Also, what the fuck does a Gladiator even do that separates it from a martial with a decent Charisma, Insomniac? It's a background at best.

There are three options that can be (and one option of the three that definitely is) a non-good Paladin.

Blade Pact Warlocks and (questionably) Warlocks in general are Gishes. Not great ones with their shitty armor choice, but the option is there.

Psionics is always a weird corner case that never makes Core (unless we talk about Mind Flayers).

All of the Rogues do things other than Sneak Attack at the expense of having useful class abilities.

There actually is an Artificer, it's a Wizard kit.

I'll give you the alternate casting stat divine casters, the outriders, the duelist/swashbuckler and the focused casters.

[Koumei]

I did notice when looking through that it included every core class and race from 3E. I don't think that was a coincidence: people were practically throwing their shit at WotC HQ over the fact that 4E dropped lacking the option for half-orcs, gnomes, druids, monks, bards and sorcerers. And Wizards that could actually do Necromancy.

That they left the Dragontits out is no surprise, similarly putting Drow and Tieflings in as core options is sensible to the point of not really being surprising. Keeping the Warlock as a core option is also something you'd expect at this point.

They clearly learned that one single lesson from 4E. For those options, having "everything that was on the table at the start of 3E" had to happen.

[ishy]

Cool chargen and it shows some gaps in the game so far.

There is no military leader or noble leader like a 3.5 Marshal or 4E Warlord apart from Bards with College of Valor.

There is no class that is a non-magical mounted combatant, like a worg/dire wolf outrider or a knight/cavalier.

There is nothing like a gladiator. I mean a real one, not b.s. options for Fighters and Barbarians but a real 1-20 Gladiator where you get to write "Gladiator" on your sheet.

There is no class like a Rogue but does things beyond sneak attacking, things like Scout or Cat Burglar or Acrobat.

There is no Psion yet.

No dedicated Gish class, just the Fighter Eldritch Knight option or College of Valor Bards.

There is no Charisma-based or Intelligence-based divine caster.

There is nothing like an Artificer or Magical Blacksmith or something like that.

There is not explicit support for Wizards apart from their traditions. More focused casters like Elementalists, Transmutationists, things that 3.5 provided with classes like Beguiler, Dread Necromancer and Warmage or Pathfinder did with more specialized caster classes like Summoner and Witch are not online yet.

Apart from Combat Maneuver Fighters and Monks there is nothing like classes from Tome of Battle.

There are no psionics options yet.

There is nothing like Blackguard, Hexblade, Antipaladin or non-Good aligned Paladins or things like Favored Soul yet.

There is nothing like a duelist or swashbuckler yet, apart from Fighter options. No dedicated class for that concept exists.

You're just trolling right? Let me try too.

There is no classes about the use of magic apart from all the magic using classes.

There is no class that is a non-magical table wielder, like a knight of the dinner table.

There is nothing like a lawyer, I mean a real one, not b.s. options for <insert any class here>, but a real 1-20 lawyer, where you get to write "lawyer" on your sheet.

There is no class like a fighter, but does things beyond fighting, things like a commoner or aristocrat.

There is no truenamer yet.

No dedicated trident users, just options for classes to pick up a trident.

There is no hit point-based arcane caster.

There is nothing like a magical farmer or something like that.

There is not explicit support for <insert any class here> apart from their <insert all explicitly supported options here>. More focused classes like the 3.5 Witch are not online yet.

Apart from the Monsters there is nothing like the monsters in the 3.5 Monster Manual II.

There are no truenaming options yet.

There is nothing like Gender specific versions off existing classes yet.

There is nothing like a wizard with a beard yet apart from making a wizard with a beard. No dedicated class for that concept exists

There is no tap-dancing, shotgun wielding, miniskirt wearing European zombie hunter, baker, ex-RAF soldier with an imp familiar class yet.

[Ferret]

Yeah I'm not going to be as caustic about it, but almost all of your requested concepts can be fully serviced with the existing classes (and a feat maybe), Insomniac.

Now, the fact that you can't play the class you want to play until you've ranked up enough to GET a feat is an entirely separate shitty thing. However, it's an entirely shitty thing that has been the case since at least 3.0 unless you're gestalting.

Personally, I wish we had more focused casters a la frank's Elementalist, and the Dread Necro and Beguiler, but I don't think anybody realistically expected the Wizard to be broken up. The backlash would be ridiculous.

[Orion]

(5e's 12 classes is the literal minimum number to be a serious offering in 2014).

What on earth are you talking about? Can you even name a game other than D&D that lunched with as many as 12? Can you name a game that had 20 after expansions? World of Darkness has 5. Shadowrun doesn't officially have classes, but it claims to have about 6 classes, while actually having about 3 classes. Dark Heresy launched with about 8 and expanded into about 10. FATE doesn't have classes.

Oh, Apocalypse world launched with 11 and ended with like 16. So I guess you have that one going for you.

[Sakuya Izayoi]

Cool chargen and it shows some gaps in the game so far.

There is no military leader or noble leader like a 3.5 Marshal or 4E Warlord apart from Bards with College of Valor.

There is no class that is a non-magical mounted combatant, like a worg/dire wolf outrider or a knight/cavalier.

There is nothing like a gladiator. I mean a real one, not b.s. options for Fighters and Barbarians but a real 1-20 Gladiator where you get to write "Gladiator" on your sheet.

There is no class like a Rogue but does things beyond sneak attacking, things like Scout or Cat Burglar or Acrobat.

There is no Psion yet.

No dedicated Gish class, just the Fighter Eldritch Knight option or College of Valor Bards.

There is no Charisma-based or Intelligence-based divine caster.

There is nothing like an Artificer or Magical Blacksmith or something like that.

There is not explicit support for Wizards apart from their traditions. More focused casters like Elementalists, Transmutationists, things that 3.5 provided with classes like Beguiler, Dread Necromancer and Warmage or Pathfinder did with more specialized caster classes like Summoner and Witch are not online yet.

Apart from Combat Maneuver Fighters and Monks there is nothing like classes from Tome of Battle.

There are no psionics options yet.

There is nothing like Blackguard, Hexblade, Antipaladin or non-Good aligned Paladins or things like Favored Soul yet.

There is nothing like a duelist or swashbuckler yet, apart from Fighter options. No dedicated class for that concept exists.

You're just trolling right? Let me try too.

There is no classes about the use of magic apart from all the magic using classes.

There is no class that is a non-magical table wielder, like a knight of the dinner table.

There is nothing like a lawyer, I mean a real one, not b.s. options for <insert any class here>, but a real 1-20 lawyer, where you get to write "lawyer" on your sheet.

There is no class like a fighter, but does things beyond fighting, things like a commoner or aristocrat.

There is no truenamer yet.

No dedicated trident users, just options for classes to pick up a trident.

There is no hit point-based arcane caster.

There is nothing like a magical farmer or something like that.

There is not explicit support for <insert any class here> apart from their <insert all explicitly supported options here>. More focused classes like the 3.5 Witch are not online yet.

Apart from the Monsters there is nothing like the monsters in the 3.5 Monster Manual II.

There are no truenaming options yet.

There is nothing like Gender specific versions off existing classes yet.

There is nothing like a wizard with a beard yet apart from making a wizard with a beard. No dedicated class for that concept exists

There is no tap-dancing, shotgun wielding, miniskirt wearing European zombie hunter, baker, ex-RAF soldier with an imp familiar class yet.

I want to play the Lawyer class. Learning invocations as you level up you can weave into your contracts, that summon outsiders if they aren't fulfilled. Suing Mephistopheles to get your soul back after he casts Wish for you. This idea has legs. It should be core.

[RadiantPhoenix]

I want to play the Lawyer class. Learning invocations as you level up you can weave into your contracts, that summon outsiders if they aren't fulfilled. Suing Mephistopheles to get your soul back after he casts Wish for you. This idea has legs. It should be core.

A barrister (not to be confused with a barista) is a type of lawyer.

[erik]

(5e's 12 classes is the literal minimum number to be a serious offering in 2014).

What on earth are you talking about? Can you even name a game other than D&D that lunched with as many as 12? Can you name a game that had 20 after expansions? World of Darkness has 5. Shadowrun doesn't officially have classes, but it claims to have about 6 classes, while actually having about 3 classes. Dark Heresy launched with about 8 and expanded into about 10.

Rifts started with what 30+?
Many games aren't restricted by classes (deadlands, GURPS, HEX, BRP).

I think a downside for Earthdawn is that there are a minimum of classes but they are mostly just a chassis for getting talents anyway and you are expected to multiclass heavily at a certain point.

Dark heresy and rogue trader needed more options for classes.

WoD had classes but they called them different clans/tribes/etc and there was a fuckload more than 3 or 5.

Anyway I think frank meant 12 is minimum for this genre. I think exceptions can be made but if you are closely mirroring D&D and using classes then it is a major fuckup to not have at least a dozen classes. Otherwise you need to make classes very general and customizable to meet all the archetypes.

[Mask_De_H]

(5e's 12 classes is the literal minimum number to be a serious offering in 2014).

What on earth are you talking about? Can you even name a game other than D&D that lunched with as many as 12? Can you name a game that had 20 after expansions? World of Darkness has 5. Shadowrun doesn't officially have classes, but it claims to have about 6 classes, while actually having about 3 classes. Dark Heresy launched with about 8 and expanded into about 10. FATE doesn't have classes.

Oh, Apocalypse world launched with 11 and ended with like 16. So I guess you have that one going for you.

Frank's said before that a new edition of D&D has to roll out with more classes than the previous edition of D&D. 4e did not do this, so people flipped shit. Pathfinder essentially counts as a new(er) version of D&D and launched with 3.X's 11. 5e comes in at one over PF and 4 over 4e.

Also I would totally play a tap dancing, shotgun wielding, miniskirt wearing European zombie hunting ex-RAF soldier turned baker with an imp familiar.

[hyzmarca]

Hundreds of classes seems like a great idea, but you have to ask, as a player and as a DM, so I want to learn hundreds of classes?

The answer to that is no.

I do not want to spend the effort required to read gigantic class books, hunt through obscure online articles and magazines, and otherwise pick the best classes for my game. It's a lot of work.

I don't even want to learn all the monsters in the monsterous manual. I just pick out whatever looks good at random. And I certainly do not use monster classes, that's fucking work.

As a player reading the book, 12 classes is almost too much. I'm zoning out after about 6.


A Primary/Secondary/Tertiary multiclassing system with 12 classes gives you 1728 class combinations and is readable in one sitting. Many of those class combinations will be trap options due to stat issues and anti-synergies, but that's okay. Enough won't be.

On the other hand, I'm just going to out the Giant Book of Classes That I Mostly Don't Care About at the bottom of my bookstack and probably never bother reading it.

[Username17]

(5e's 12 classes is the literal minimum number to be a serious offering in 2014).

What on earth are you talking about? Can you even name a game other than D&D that lunched with as many as 12? Can you name a game that had 20 after expansions? World of Darkness has 5. Shadowrun doesn't officially have classes, but it claims to have about 6 classes, while actually having about 3 classes. Dark Heresy launched with about 8 and expanded into about 10. FATE doesn't have classes.

Oh, Apocalypse world launched with 11 and ended with like 16. So I guess you have that one going for you.

It took me a while to decide how to answer this. I simply could not decide whether this was simply profoundly ignorant or deeply sarcastic. I mean, you mentioned Apocalypse World for goodness' sake. That's like Poe's Law for RPG discussion. I can never tell where silva's mendacity ends and his stupidity begins and no one else can either.

After thinking about it for a while, I've decided to treat this as a serious, if extremely ignorant, post. So let's go into this. Without going into expansion material at all, here are some of D&D's contemporaries:



Rolemaster has 13 Classes. Earthdawn has 13 Disciplines. Ars Magica has 13 Houses.
The SR1 BBB has 16 Archetypes. Werewolf the Apocalypse launched with 17 Tribes. RIFTS™ has 32 OCCs in the core book alone. WFRP has sixty four basic careers in the giant tome.

The idea that a big mclargehuge number of classes isn't totally normal for class based games is simply wrong. You could throw around the idea that reductionist classes or even classlessness is the way to go, and people have gone those routes. But the default of class based games is that people want a shit tonne of them. I mean, After Sundown has 18 classes, and the number one request for After Sundown 2 is for me to add 21 more.

Now, the fact that you can't play the class you want to play until you've ranked up enough to GET a feat is an entirely separate shitty thing. However, it's an entirely shitty thing that has been the case since at least 3.0 unless you're gestalting.

A class concept you can't play until 7th level basically isn't supported.

-Username17

[Insomniac]

Well, Pathfinder has the same 12 core, plus...

Antipaladin
Alchemist
Cavalier
Gunslinger
Summoner
Magus
Inquisitor
Oracle
Witch
Ninja
Samurai
Arcanist
Brawler
Investigator
Skald
Swashbuckler
Bloodrager
Hunter
Shaman
Slayer
Warpriest

All with a dizzying array of racial options and Archetypes. Their Core 12 is nowhere near as mature as Pathfinder's and they are a full 21 level 1 to level 20 classes behind.

They better get that Splosion working. That is how Pathfinder stole WOTC's lunch money. What they have is literally not even 5 percent of the options Pathfinder offers.

[tenngu]

Now, the fact that you can't play the class you want to play until you've ranked up enough to GET a feat is an entirely separate shitty thing. However, it's an entirely shitty thing that has been the case since at least 3.0 unless you're gestalting.

A class concept you can't play until 7th level basically isn't supported.

-Username17

To be fair, you get your first feat at 4, or if you really want, as a human, 1.

Which is kinda dumb. Almost all the casters get their spec choice at like 1, while everyone else gets it at 3. Although you SHOULD get to level 3 if you're starting off at first level, Having one session devoted to the "tutorial/ caterpillar" phase is fun maybe once. It's especially shitty when your group falls apart after 1 session, which isn't exactly unheard of.

Speaking of choosing your spec, those class specializations are a big reason why there probably won't be a hell of a lot more classes. As Frank pointed out there's obviously some space for some ideas, but not only does that idea have to stand by itself, you apparently have to include at least two talent/spec choices. The alternative, like what they've done, is just thrown entire archetypes into the classes that there is now. Like, archivist is a wizard kit, and evil-paladin is a paladin kit. Which would be weird if gunslinger was a ranger spec choice.

I think the worst part about this is that I don't even know if I want more classes. Not that more classes wouldn't be great, but it's mike Mearls here. Out of the gate the balance is already fucked (beast mastery is a waste of time, rogues suck again, casters are great, summoning dudes is even better).

ADDITIONALLY, the way Frank is writing the classes, they all have differing resources pools, would definitely be hella sweet. The problem with that is Frank isn't writing this, again it's Mearls. Remember the last time Mearls wrote a game system where everyone had a resource system to manage? Yeah I don't really want iron heroes again.

I guess is what I'm trying to say is for frank to stop cock teasing us and just write this game.

[Orion]

I'll cop to ignorance. I've never read Earthdawn or Ars Magica. I sort of assumed that Ars Magica would have had 7 houses, because Vampire had seven clans. I *am* familiar with several versions of Rolemaster and Rifts. You caught me. If you'll look away for a moment while I move the goalposts, I do notice that none of those games are from the 21st century, and that as far as I know nobody takes RIFTS, Rolemaster, or Warhammer seriously. Rolemaster classes are unbalanced, flavorless procedurally-generated garbage. Many Warham careers are literally jokes. I guess I want to challenge the idea that many games have actually benefitted from large numbers of classes.

Also, anecdotally, the number one complaint I hear about After Sundown is that it has too many classes.

[virgil]

I do notice that none of those games are from the 21st century

Neither is D&D, ultimately

Also, anecdotally, the number one complaint I hear about After Sundown is that it has too many classes.

I've actually heard this too, but it's not so much there being too many classes, but they were expecting another Vampire where they do their level best to ignore the other splats because it feels campy to have Dracula, the Wolfman, and Frankenstein walk into a bar.

[Ice9]

Hundreds of classes seems like a great idea, but you have to ask, as a player and as a DM, so I want to learn hundreds of classes?

The answer to that is no.

Having a shitload of options is a selling point, if even a significant fraction of those options are exciting.

I have at home a book of DBs for Rifts. Several dozen of them, all playable. Looking through that book makes me want to play Rifts. And I've played Rifts, so I know full well how bad the system is.

Also, I think Mearls is bad enough that using a ton of resource systems would be an advantage:
Good Designer: Can handle multiple resource systems.
Mediocre Designer: Should probably stick to something simpler.
Terrible Designer: Would fuck up even a single resource system; might hit a good one by luck if he throws enough at the wall.

[TheFlatline]

I want to play the Lawyer class. Learning invocations as you level up you can weave into your contracts, that summon outsiders if they aren't fulfilled. Suing Mephistopheles to get your soul back after he casts Wish for you. This idea has legs. It should be core.

I dig the idea of a summoner whose schtick in society is to draft contracts that are actually scrolls of summon monster and at high levels motherf*cking gate and true name summons that port in creatures and angels/devils to enforce contracts. That'd actually be pretty awesome from a flavor standpoint.