I was skimming wikipedia article on the characters in Journey to the West, and I was wondering if anyone could explain exactly what "demons" are in the setting.
A lot of them appear to be random people or animals that practiced Taoism so hard they got magic powers. And others appeared to be escaped celestial animals.
Anyone in the know?
Demons in Journey to the West
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angelfromanotherpin
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If I recall correctly, it's a combination of the source material being a not-fully-coherent mashup of a number of different spiritual systems, and the English translations using 'demon' for a variety of more specific terms. In the version I read, the term seemed to apply to any non-god magical nonhuman being, whether that was a restless ghost or a Buddhist temptation allegory or a folkloric talking animal or whatever.
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OgreBattle
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Basically what angelfromanotherpin said. Anyone who wants to eat the monk is basically a 'demon' so 'demon' basically means "badguy".
Looking at specific characters you can see categories form, like...
Child/incarnation of the elements- a stone was shaped by the elements until it was given life as a monkey. He then learned magic from a Taoist and went on a lot of adventures, eating a lot of magical stuff.
Celestial- Zhu Bajie used to be a celestial commander of the navy, but sexually harassed the moon goddess so was banished to earth in the form of a pig-man. Celestial animals, such as the steeds of Bodhisattva's, can also go rogue and do their own thing, taking humanoid form too.
Dragons- The white horse was a dragon that did a bad deed and has to atone, shapeshifted into the form of a horse (since he ate the actual horse) to help the monk.
Various Animal demons- many of the animal themed demons are animals who have acquired magical power via training in Taoist arts and can shapeshift into a humanoid form. They tend to eat people. Some animals occur in multiple stories (like the 9 tailed fox) so warrant their own distinct category.
Demons that look like people and don't have animal powers- Princess Ironfan is referred to as demonic but generally looks like a well dressed human. Her husband the Bull Demon King also takes a human appearance in many versions of the story.
Undead- The White Bone Demon's natural form is a skeleton. What they were in life, or if they were always a skeleton is unknown.
Ghosts- Sometimes a ghost of a dead person appears to deliver a warning or wail, has to be put to rest.
Nature spirits- There's tree spirits that can project a human form but who's true form is a tree rooted somewhere.
Immortals/Dieties- Every once in a while you bump into a remote temple and/or palace with a powerful human looking guy that lives there. Sometimes they're people that achieved immortality via Taoist spiritual cultivating and eating devil fruit, sometimes they're deities tied to a concept ("earth") or place in a shinto kind of way. Animal demons aren't much different from them.
Journey to the West is basically the precursor to monster-of-the-week shows like Kamen Rider and Ultraman.
Looking at specific characters you can see categories form, like...
Child/incarnation of the elements- a stone was shaped by the elements until it was given life as a monkey. He then learned magic from a Taoist and went on a lot of adventures, eating a lot of magical stuff.
Celestial- Zhu Bajie used to be a celestial commander of the navy, but sexually harassed the moon goddess so was banished to earth in the form of a pig-man. Celestial animals, such as the steeds of Bodhisattva's, can also go rogue and do their own thing, taking humanoid form too.
Dragons- The white horse was a dragon that did a bad deed and has to atone, shapeshifted into the form of a horse (since he ate the actual horse) to help the monk.
Various Animal demons- many of the animal themed demons are animals who have acquired magical power via training in Taoist arts and can shapeshift into a humanoid form. They tend to eat people. Some animals occur in multiple stories (like the 9 tailed fox) so warrant their own distinct category.
Demons that look like people and don't have animal powers- Princess Ironfan is referred to as demonic but generally looks like a well dressed human. Her husband the Bull Demon King also takes a human appearance in many versions of the story.
Undead- The White Bone Demon's natural form is a skeleton. What they were in life, or if they were always a skeleton is unknown.
Ghosts- Sometimes a ghost of a dead person appears to deliver a warning or wail, has to be put to rest.
Nature spirits- There's tree spirits that can project a human form but who's true form is a tree rooted somewhere.
Immortals/Dieties- Every once in a while you bump into a remote temple and/or palace with a powerful human looking guy that lives there. Sometimes they're people that achieved immortality via Taoist spiritual cultivating and eating devil fruit, sometimes they're deities tied to a concept ("earth") or place in a shinto kind of way. Animal demons aren't much different from them.
Journey to the West is basically the precursor to monster-of-the-week shows like Kamen Rider and Ultraman.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Y'know, that's on my "To-Read list".
I have a good copy of the Iliad, and figure the next epic I'll try is Journey Into the West. But it's haaaarrrd to find a good recommendation on a translation/source.
Anyone have a pointer to a decent translation?
I have a good copy of the Iliad, and figure the next epic I'll try is Journey Into the West. But it's haaaarrrd to find a good recommendation on a translation/source.
Anyone have a pointer to a decent translation?
Last edited by Maxus on Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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OgreBattle
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I don't know the difference between them and don't remember which one I read. There's various movie and TV adaptions you can check out too.Maxus wrote:Y'know, that's on my "To-Read list".
I have a good copy of the Iliad, and figure the next epic I'll try is Journey Into the West. But it's haaaarrrd to find a good recommendation on a translation/source.
Anyone have a pointer to a decent translation?
The 80's Stephen Chow movie and more recent movie directed by Stephen Chow are adaptions that deviate from the story in many ways but carry the general 'tone' and 'message' well.
There's also a Japanese TV show from the late 70's I've heard good things about, just called "Monkey" or "Monkey Magic"
Dragon Ball also started off as an adaption of the story and went off on its own direction.
I don't mean to throw water on your enthusiasm, but I have read JttW (the W. J. F. Jenner translation) and hold the opinion that it's at most worth the time it takes to read an abridgement. At 2,346 pages long, it makes George Martin look like a master of brevity.Maxus wrote:Y'know, that's on my "To-Read list".
I have a good copy of the Iliad, and figure the next epic I'll try is Journey Into the West. But it's haaaarrrd to find a good recommendation on a translation/source.
Anyone have a pointer to a decent translation?
After the initial telling of the origins of the Monkey King, the story is basically an endless rehash of the same three or four basic encounters over and over again, with very little variation or much by way of character/plot development.
It's a historically and culturally significant book, but it's awfully repetitive.
Last edited by Mord on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dunno about Journey To The West, but usually Asian words translated as "demon" would probably be more accurately translated as "monster" and generically refers to nonhumans. OgreBattle mostly covers the categories.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.