[LP] Rune: Crouching Wizard, SMASHING HAMMER

[SlyJohnny]

Y17 is the half-cut off one below W17, but it's only going to matter to me if you have Churlaf enter the machine and try to combat maneuver me through it before my turn.

[angelfromanotherpin]

*blind*
I'll amend the positioning if Churlaf survives Sigrid's turn.

[Omegonthesane]

Sigrid walks, seemingly calmly, to L18, and leaving herself wide open thrusts into Churlaf then says (not shouts) "Die".

(Moving to L18 and berserking Churlaf, because P18 doesn't count if I want to shove him into the machine and Siggy's too weedy to shove him 2 hexes.)

[angelfromanotherpin]

Sigrid BERSERK attack: <9> +3 dex +3 skill +1 weapon (+2 qik +3 skill +4 gear) = 25
Churlaf defense: <5> +9 DFN = 14
Damage: MoS 11 +3 weapon -5 soak = 9

Churlaf has been paying little attention to Sigrid's feeble jabs, counting on footwork and mail to protect him from all but scratches. So it is a rude surprise for him when she fully commits to an attack from behind. The spear drives through links of mail, the muscles of his back, and severs his aorta. He falls instantly.

The remaining hostages, chained to the machine by fear more effectively than by fetters, stare in disbelief for a long moment before giving voice to the joy of the liberated. Without their working, the deadly machine slows to a stop in moments.

Then a small mechanical device rolls out of Churlaf's bloody shirt. Spring-loaded switches click, and the Big Machine begins to shudder and smoke and emit an increasingly high-pitched shriek. Your every instinct says it's going to explode!

You could run, but you don't know if you could get far enough – and certainly the poor folk of Lutethorsk could not. You must try to calm the machine somehow.

Our heroes must race around the machine trying to find (and smash) the vital spots that will stop the big bang.

Trap – Countdown (4 attempts, 3 successes)
Traps vs TN 7
(Each player gets four rolls, and must collectively succeed 3 times to defeat the trap.)

This sort of thing can be pretty tense at the table but is kind of lame in Pbp. I'm going to try to simulate some suspense by using spoiler tags.
Sigrid 1: <4> +3 dex -3 skill -2 no tools = 2 vs TN 7
Thrain 1: <7> -3 skill -2 tools = 2 vs TN 7
Total successes: 0

Sigrid 2: <7> +3 dex -3 skill -2 no tools = 5 vs TN 7
Thrain 2: <4> -3 skill -2 tools = -1 vs TN 7
Total successes: 0

Sigrid 3: <3> +3 dex -3 skill -2 no tools = 1 vs TN 7
Thrain 3: <6> -3 skill -2 tools = 1 vs TN 7
Total successes: 0, preventing the explosion is now impossible.

The machine blows apart with an ear-splitting crack, burning light and dismembering metal flying in all directions. Most of the remaining hostages had gotten free, but not all had gotten far, and four die gruesomely in the blast. As for our heroes:
Damage: MoF 6 +DAM 20 -3/10 soak = 23 (+1 wound) Sigrid/16 Thrain

Dinner that night is meager and bittersweet, the joy of victory and freedom tempered by the lives lost to Churlaf's devilry. Singing and dancing at one end of the square, pyres for the fallen at the other end. The chief and his thanes tell you how the wizard built the wicked machine, and boasted how it would draw power from the land and send it to the wizard's stronghold on Gruignir Mountain. Now you have a final destination, and not too far-off at that.

Astrid's body and all her gear are burned together. If you want to express your feelings at her loss, now's the time.

And to season the sense of bereavement, the VP penalties for Astrid's loss are now decided: -75 VP to the hero in first place when the encounter ends (Thrain), and -45 VP to the hero in second place (Sigrid).

(Sigrid actually did astonishing catch-up work with her VPs, with the 24-pt killing blow reward for Churlaf, and an astonishing 84-pt cumulative total from successful dodging.)

Sigrid Eirikdottir (Omegonthesane) [103 VP this Encounter, 123 VP previously; 48 XP]
Str: 0, Sta: +2, Dex: +3, Qik: +2, Int: 0, Per: +1, Pre: -1, Com: +0
HP: 10/48 (1 Wound), Load: 3.5/4 (Enc 0), Move: 10/20
Single Weapon 3, Brawling 1, Two Weapons 1
Awareness 2, Dodge 3, Sprint 1, Stealth 1
Balance 1, Bravery 1, Carouse 1, Repair 1, Sleep 1, Swim 1
Divine Gifts: With Either Hand
Short Spear, Tiny Knife x5, Buckler, Fur Armor, Repair Kit, 8 oz. silver.

Thrain Sorlisson (SlyJohnny) [75 VP this Encounter, 107 VP previously; 2 XP]
Str: +3, Sta: +3, Dex: 0, Qik: -3, Int: -1, Per: +3, Pre: -1, Com: -1
HP: 25/102 (0 Wounds), Load: 10.3/10 (Enc 1), Move: 15/30
Great Weapon 3, Bows 1
Dodge 3, Awareness 1, Healer 1, Sprint 3
Bravery 1, Climb 1, Lore 1, Pursuit 1, Sing 1, Survival 1, Seamanship 1, Swim 1
'Divine' Gifts: Through the Cracks
Rune Power: Dwarven Work Sword
Dwarven Work Sword (+1 ATK), Quarterstaff, Short Bow, Short Sword, Dagger, Round Shield, Mail, Climbing Gear, Healer's Kit, Map Kit, Survival Kit, Quiver w/12 arrows, Tiny Knife x2, 27 oz. silver.

[SlyJohnny]

If Thrain has any strong feelings about Astrid's passing, he keeps them to himself. He watches the villagers burn her body with a detached air of solemnity.

[Omegonthesane]

The combat over, Sigrid is found in a corner shaking and hugging herself, a bottle of mead finished and another in hand.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Before you take to your beds, the villagers present you with a token of their gratitude, some of the few treasures they were able to keep hidden from their conquerors. These are four golden hneftafl pieces, which you reckon to be worth 38 oz. of silver each. You can also take your due of 8 common melee weapons and four common ranged weapons from your fallen enemies.

[SlyJohnny]

Thrain has been in his cups all night and is in a foul mood. He demands all the treasure and weapons.

[Omegonthesane]

Sigrid's eyes darken as she demands two of the hneftafl pieces, although she doesn't lay any claim to the weapons.

[SlyJohnny]

Thrain rounds on his staunch ally and subjects her to an incoherent, half-drunken rant, accusing her of causing the destruction of the machine (and the death of the prisoners) by deliberately activating Churlaf's device, and stating that Astrid died solely through Sigrid's negligence. There are more accusations, but he fails to make himself understood through his slurred, aggressive barking. What does come across very clearly is that he doesn't think she deserves any share of the loot, and he'll duel her for it.

[Omegonthesane]

Faced with specific accusations, Sigrid's eyes widen in shock and guilt, for an instant believing it was somehow her responsibility alone. Only an instant, however.

"You take that back," Sigrid demands, clutching her table knife as if intending to use it in the upcoming duel, more incensed at the accusation than the lack of loot.

((If you're OOC willing to accept 3 coins for you and 1 for me and patch me up before the next encounter, then Siggy and Thrain can calm down, sober up, and make up in the morning instead of duelling. I am still kinda kicking myself for forgetting how the bugzapper worked when positioning Sigrid on the fateful turn and I didn't expect the death to make me overtake.

Otherwise, sure, winner-takes-all duel it is.))

[SlyJohnny]

"I will not! You're a false friend and a coward, Sigrid Eirikdottir, and I aim to prove it! Holmgang!"

Thrain shouts aloud out to the street, seeking witnesses, as he draws his weapon (hopefully this isn't happening literally five seconds after the villagers handed the pair their thoughtful gifts and they're just standing there, they must be horrified at the reaction).

[angelfromanotherpin]

As it seems no reasonable agreement can be met, Holmgang will happen. A holmgang contest can in theory be almost anything, but is usually armed combat until one party or the other has dealt a set amount of damage to their opponent. It is also usual to (somehow) set a cap on how much damage a single blow can deal, to reduce the chance of fatality.

Set your terms. Any impasses here will be broken by 'local custom,' represented by Thaluikhain if he's still with us, or failing that by me.

[SlyJohnny]

How about armed combat, with the last person to take damage having the option to concede and end the duel?

[Omegonthesane]

Sounds like the kind of terms you'd set if you were actually going for the kill.

I'm instead going to suggest first to deal 9 damage wins. And, since Thrain is explicitly the challenger and Sigrid the challenged, it seems fair I have more say regarding the terms.

[SlyJohnny]

since Thrain is explicitly the challenger and Sigrid the challenged, it seems fair I have more say regarding the terms.

If we're duelling over loot distribution, there's no challenger, surely?

Before I agree, what would "local customs" look like?

[Omegonthesane]

since Thrain is explicitly the challenger and Sigrid the challenged, it seems fair I have more say regarding the terms.

If we're duelling over loot distribution, there's no challenger, surely?

quoting the literal challenge that Thrain made,

"I will not! You're a false friend and a coward, Sigrid Eirikdottir, and I aim to prove it! Holmgang!"

Thrain shouts aloud out to the street, seeking witnesses, as he draws his weapon (hopefully this isn't happening literally five seconds after the villagers handed the pair their thoughtful gifts and they're just standing there, they must be horrified at the reaction).

Besides, it was you that vetoed any remotely fair distribution of loot not me. I offered "take 3/4 of the good stuff or violence" and you chose violence.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Traditionally, holmgang is not like more formal codes duello as regards the privilege of the challenged. There is a distinction between challenged and challenger, but it has to do with how much shame they face if they don't show up.

Anyway, I hope Thal is tied up with end-of-year festivities and hasn't left us forever, but I don't want to wait any longer. The villagers consult and decide that while neither of your proposals matches their customs, Sigrid's is closer and has their endorsement.

[SlyJohnny]

Unable to navigate the legalities of the situation in a way that would offer him a one-sided duel and a framework with which to honourably dispense with his rival, Thrain lets out a grunt of frustration and rushes towards Sigrid, aiming to cut her down quickly.

[angelfromanotherpin]

I see you have chosen the path of the dick move.

Outside of a formal duel, the first to cause damage to the other is the dishonorable party. Said dishonorable party will lose 5 VP per point of damage dealt to their opponent in this battle, allow the injured party to retaliate without such loss, and nullify any VP penalties other players might suffer for the dishonorable party's death.

Let me know which weapons you'd each like to start this betrayal with.

[Thaluikhain]

Anyway, I hope Thal is tied up with end-of-year festivities and hasn't left us forever

I'm still here, I was waiting to see if an agreement was eventually reached.

Also, I'd like remind people that this never happened when Astrid was alive.

[SlyJohnny]

I see you have chosen the path of the dick move.

It just... it doesn't make sense not to, in this particular situation. I'd already decided to do it, even before I saw how much treasure I could potentially have all to myself.

Unless Sigrid kills me and takes everything and jumps to like 300 points ahead. Which would serve me right.

I'll start with the quarterstaff equipped.

[Omegonthesane]

I see you have chosen the path of the dick move.

It just... it doesn't make sense not to, in this particular situation.

IC, Thrain has no reason to assume he's getting a replacement Sigrid or that he stands a chance against the wizard's minions alone.

OOC, I'm going to ask a question for the record, the answer to which might on its own affect your calculus, then give an ultimatum to make it make sense.

Fro the record, quoting the betrayal rules,

8. Betrayal: Deliberately harming another PC costs 5 VP per point of damage dealt, allows them to respond without losing VP in turn, and absolves all other players of penalties related to your character's death. tldr: Dick move, do not do.

Does that stain EVER expire? In other words, what is stopping the new characters from double-teaming Thrain when they hear what a dishonest cur he really is?

(Also, I note that it doesn't absolve the BETRAYER of point loss for other people's deaths, so you'd still get the -75 for being the leader of a pack of one if Sigrid dies.)

As for the ultimatum: if you continue with this and set the precedent of party murder for VPs, win or lose, I'm leaving.

You dealt falsely with me from the start, you committed unilaterally to the route of party murder over a negligible and negateable VP advantage, and for what? Bragging rights in a fucking forum RPG? This shit is why PvP is heavily discouraged, it fucking ruins the game for everyone. I have been stressing out over fucking New Year's over this god damn thread, I was considering just walking away the moment a duel was suggested.

[SlyJohnny]

As for the ultimatum: if you continue with this and set the precedent of party murder for VPs, win or lose, I'm leaving.

You dealt falsely with me from the start, you committed unilaterally to the route of party murder over a negligible and negateable VP advantage, and for what? Bragging rights in a fucking forum RPG? This shit is why PvP is heavily discouraged, it fucking ruins the game for everyone. I have been stressing out over fucking New Year's over this god damn thread, I was considering just walking away the moment a duel was suggested.

Well, I feel awful. I'm not trying to victimise anybody or make this personal. It's just even if I immediately get attacked and killed by Siggy's replacement, we then restart on 0vp each (with Siggy's character having a HP penalty of however much damage I inflict) and that's way better to being behind by any amount of points. PVP must be part of the game or the rules would be "you cannot purposefully target another player for damage outside of a duel, ever", rather than a state of affairs where "you CAN kill other PC's at any time, but it's only ever mathematically worthwhile it in a situation where there are just two people left and the other person is weak". I think it's a tortured reading of the rules to suggest that attacking another player means you are then doomed to fight a continual stream of their cousins until you are overwhelmed, but again, a hard restart is preferable.

I should also make clear right away that all that stuff about "blaming you for Astrid's death" was just shittalk. I don't believe any of it I. was making literally no effort to protect Astrid because I wanted your character to make all the effort to do so, while I continued to gain points.

What I will say is that you are representing a situation where you have a 50 VP lead and a considerable experience lead as a "negligible and negateable advantage" that I should just put on my big boy pants on and work to overcome, but a situation where I have a -50vp debt, a net 50vp total banked VP lead, and a 75xp headstart is completely unacceptable and you wouldn't even consider continuing to play under such circumstances.

Again, I'm sorry if I've made things unpleasant, and I'm sure you're both great guys and I don't bear either of you any ill-will. I'm just trying to win this competitive game that we're all playing.

[Omegonthesane]

So, there's three problems here - the latter two are intertwined, but separate enough that I might have been able to stomach one without the other.

One, that the VPs are even at the forefront of your mind to the extent that you feel that executing another player character just to close a VP gap is something that should be on the table when doing so would be anathema to most of the character concepts the game is aiming to support.

Two, that rather than spell out your situation in VPs and why the gap was too large for any other action to make sense you handled things on the IC level where people might be emotionally invested and take it personally when to take your word at its face it was always and only about the numbers to you

Three, that you acted dishonestly, making a seemingly unreasonable loot demand to provoke Holmgang and trying to manipulate the rules of a duel to give you a shot at "honourable" murder instead of admitting from the start that the extant VP and XP gap meant you'd rather do a hard reset than try to catch up.

The thing is, I haven't even been looking at VP amounts with any kind of effort. I was in this for the story, otherwise I'd have requested retcons for "being bored of playing a somewhat sub-optimal Fashion Souls character" instead of "if I'd done something slightly differently for even one turn Astrid would still be alive". If this was about the VP count, I'd accept the chance to respec and only take revenge if doing so would put me ahead on VPs, and even then potentially of the form "having looked at the death count rules, Sven loots Thrain's pockets to steal the gold coins before patching his wounds" rather than outright murder.

Frankly, I'd probably be less personally hurt about this if you'd just shown your calculations of how the VP situation was hopeless in OOC terms instead of RPing around it first and foremost. I might even have forgiven the PvP at that point, if not from understanding or sympathy then just in respect of the audacious honesty. But, you've now shown you're willing to dissemble and manipulate for the sake of winning a game slightly harder than the other players when the victory condition isn't "last man standing" or anything of the sort.

Bottom line: I'm not even thinking about the circumstances in VP terms, the unacceptable circumstance here is "a player is willing to lie and betray for stakes smaller than Vampire the Requiem". And a hard reset wouldn't fix that.