Planescape PbtA - suggestions welcome!

[Guts]

Still an early version, but it's shaping up to something interesting, I think.


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By now only Stats, Alignment, Race and Moves are more or less defined. (don't consider the Faction part, I got it from the AW "Turncoat" playbook but still need to convert it to Planescape).

The basic framework is: playbooks as factions; 3 main stats (Body, Mind and Soul), 2 special stats (Chaos and Order, that sum up to zero, so if a PC has Chaos+1 it's Order is automatically at -1), basic moves that use a mix of all stats. Alignment dictates how you gain xp (together with Race). And the idea of Conditions (applied by basic various moves, planes, items, etc) that mess with Chaos and Order (ie: "Shaken" lowers one of them, while "Inspired" raises it, etc). The playebook moves will mostly function with Chaos or Order, thus making it important for the player to keep their special stats within certain thresholds. I thought having this interplay of Conditions central to the game could be a good way to depict the setting's ideological battle. The main inspiration for the pairing of Chaos-Order here was actually Pendragon's virtue traits.

Oh and specifically for the Xaositech playbook, I envisioned it more of this manipulator of Fate through Chaos or something like that. The moves reflect that. If someone misses more combat moves, that will be the Cypher playbook, which will be "chaos in action".

Ideas and suggestions are welcome!


*Edit: more playbook previews. Only changed the art and faction blurbs. Suggestions, as always, welcome.

The Godsman

The Indep

The Guvner

The Athar

The Anarchist

The Dustman

[Guts]

By the way, I want to swap that "Street Artist" move by "Wild Mage", but I'm not sure how Wild magic works in D&D. If someone can explain, I'd appreciate!

[virgil]

Wild Magic varies across editions, but the basic gist of it is that you can invoke a wholly random effect (Rod of Wonder is a good sample). Many editions try to do a lesser version, where you just cast a regular spell that is randomly more or less powerful than normal (ideally in a manner to encourage a willingness to take such a risk).

[JigokuBosatsu]

That artist gives me a fucking rash, but I can understand that may not be everyone's reaction.

[Iduno]

That artist gives me a fucking rash, but I can understand that may not be everyone's reaction.

It looks like a shitty version of the original Planescape art. The original sometimes worked, and frequently just looked like weirdly skinny people.

[JigokuBosatsu]

Don't get me wrong, I think Diterlizzi is a good artist, but his style looked dated even back then. Which, if Guts is going for a throwback style that works fine.

What can I say, I'm a hater sometimes.

[Guts]

No, you're right. I also have mixed feelings about Diterlizzi art. It's too on the light/childish side for me, not reflecting at all my vision of Sigil and the factions (which is the focus of this hack). Do you have suggestions?

I thought about Amano Yoshitaka too. His style has something of the dirty baroque (?) that I see in Sigil.

[virgil]

Personally, I love Diterlizzi's art. But another source that may help is much of the work from the Kill Six Billion Demons webcomic

[JigokuBosatsu]

Ooooh, I love K6BD and Amano. Both better touchstones for that style, I think. And of course it's subjective.

Edit: Alexander Preuss does mostly scifi stuff these days but check these out.

[Guts]

Wild Magic varies across editions, but the basic gist of it is that you can invoke a wholly random effect (Rod of Wonder is a good sample). Many editions try to do a lesser version, where you just cast a regular spell that is randomly more or less powerful than normal (ideally in a manner to encourage a willingness to take such a risk).

interesting. Seems like a risk-reward thing.

Wanna try coming up with a move for that?

[Guts]

Okay, how about this for a Wild Mage move?

Wild Mage
You've learned how to channel the chaotic energies that churn within you in the form of spells. When you do it, first choose a spell and a target. Then roll with Chaos: On a 10+ it releases in it's normal form. On 7-9 it releases in it's wild form.

- Surge: target does +1 harm for the remainder of combat /Wild Surge: everybody in the area does +1 harm for remainder of combat;

- Tides: target has +1 forward/ Wild Tides: ...but -1 ongoing next;

- Luck: makes the target 7-9 roll into a 10+/ Wild Luck: ...but also makes next 7-9 player roll into a 6-.

[Archmage]

On some level I feel like it's a mistake to engage with this at all, but, if you genuinely want to reproduce the feel of Wild Magic as presented in D&D, you need a giant table of random results. "Some die rolls get modified" is not adequate, you want a lookup table with like 50 or even 100 results that include everything from "caster and all targets of the spell are now purple" to "arcane explosion deals massive damage." That sort of thing just doesn't seem to fit well into a PtbA game as I understand the system.

[Emerald]

Perhaps instead of rolling on a big table of arbitrary effects and having to figure out how to resolve it, you roll up a random move to take immediately but flavor it with Wild Magic effects instead of the standard flavor?

For instance, if your result is the Xaositech's Ratcatcher move, you could flavor it as evoking a shower of coins (which you then pick up and use to pay for your lifestyle), Like a Slaad might turn you rainbow colors, Chaos Theory might teleport you randomly, and so forth.

[Orion]

Without the basic move list, it's impossible to evaluate characters in a meaningful way. Writing your basic moves is the most important part and the hardest part and you should do that first.

[Guts]

Perhaps instead of rolling on a big table of arbitrary effects and having to figure out how to resolve it, you roll up a random move to take immediately but flavor it with Wild Magic effects instead of the standard flavor?

For instance, if your result is the Xaositech's Ratcatcher move, you could flavor it as evoking a shower of coins (which you then pick up and use to pay for your lifestyle), Like a Slaad might turn you rainbow colors, Chaos Theory might teleport you randomly, and so forth.

Whoaa you got something here. I really like that. But I don't know how to turn that into a move. See, the moves are not like effects/special abilities that you choose to activate at will (well, at least most of them are not). They're more like prompts in the fiction for things you would already do naturally. Ie: "Like a Slaad" and "Ratcatcher" are passives, and "Augury" only work upon entering a charged situation. So "when you do wild magic, pick another move at random" wouldn't work, I think.

But I'll give it more thought. It's a great idea.

[Guts]

Without the basic move list, it's impossible to evaluate characters in a meaningful way. Writing your basic moves is the most important part and the hardest part and you should do that first.

You're right. I'm still thinking about that. I don't want to stray too much away from default AW at first because I'm afraid of doing ****. I know what I want to be different, though:

1) Five main stats: 3 basic ones: Body, Mind and Soul (or analogue labels in the Cant, if possible) and 2 special ones: Order and Chaos, which must be at odds with each other, like +1/-1, 0/0, etc. At first I though about them summing up to zero, but I think that would break the engine logic of stats going from -2 to +3. So I think it's better to simply dictate only one of them can be positive or both at 0/0. (so +3/-1 is valid). At chargen I'm considering giving the following values for players to distribute as they wish: +2, +1, 0, 0, -1.

2) (Some) Basic moves based on Order and Chaos. Maybe shifting "Reading a Situation" to roll with Order (it's an analytical ability after all), and another one for Chaos (didn't decide yet). Maybe creating "Give the Blinds" ? Morte on Torment tells it everytime "You give the Blinds on the Dusties, chief?" meaning "Escape notice or a threat" which I find kinda fitting. "When you wanna Give the Blinds on someone or a threat, roll with Chaos. On a hit you escape their notice or the area entirely as you wish. On 10+ pick both, on 7-9 pick 1: - you don't leave traces of your destination behind; -you don't leave some item behind".

3) Basic moves based on Planar hopping, that also use Order and Chaos (say, "When you enter Limbo, roll with Chaos. on a 10+ you're Ok. On 7-9 pick 1: -The chaotic soup makes you dizzy, take the "Shaken" condition; -You attract the attention of some hostile being. On a miss, both: you're "Shaken" and attract unwanted attention").

4) Basic moves that inflict/clean up Conditions (like in Masks and Monsterhearts). When you "Influence or Manipulate" someone roll stat. On a hit, you may Inflict a Condition on them", etc. For now I just thought of two conditions: "Inspired", that raises your main alignment stat (Chaos/Order) by 1 for the time. And "Shaken", that does the opposite. As faction moves are mostly based on these, you risk getting shutdown if your alignment stat drops too low.

5) Some faction moves playing with those Conditions: Dustmen are harder to be inflicted with Conditions altogether due to their detachment/lack of emotions; Sensates can absorb or transfer a Condition from/to him/herself; Godsmen have it easier to inflict good Conditions on others, etc. I think this interplay of Conditions is a good way to give weight to the "Words more dangerous than swords" motto of the settting.

6) Xp gain based on upholding faction ideologies or racial drives. For the Xaositech above it is "When you pick a random choice - on a move or in the fiction - while on a dangerous situation, gain xp*". Your race also dictates another: for the Rogue Modron above it is "Pick a directive - Safety First; Preserve Life; M-D-K (Murder-Death-Kill any source of threat to you or firendlies). When upholding your directive puts you or friendlies at risk, gain xp". Etc.

But right now those are all pretty much in flux in my head and could change at any moment.


Edit: *going with Monsterhearts principle here: Xp gain is only once per scene. So the random choice picking for the Xaositech above don't need to happen everytime. If you already picked randomly on "Read the situation", you may pick everything else normally for the remainder of the encounter/situation.

[Emerald]

Perhaps instead of rolling on a big table of arbitrary effects and having to figure out how to resolve it, you roll up a random move to take immediately but flavor it with Wild Magic effects instead of the standard flavor?

For instance, if your result is the Xaositech's Ratcatcher move, you could flavor it as evoking a shower of coins (which you then pick up and use to pay for your lifestyle), Like a Slaad might turn you rainbow colors, Chaos Theory might teleport you randomly, and so forth.

Whoaa you got something here. I really like that. But I don't know how to turn that into a move. See, the moves are not like effects/special abilities that you choose to activate at will (well, at least most of them are not). They're more like prompts in the fiction for things you would already do naturally. Ie: "Like a Slaad" and "Ratcatcher" are passives, and "Augury" only work upon entering a charged situation. So "when you do wild magic, pick another move at random" wouldn't work, I think.

But I'll give it more thought. It's a great idea.

I know the character doesn't normally choose to activate a move, but when activating a move as part of the wild magic roll you'd obviously ignore the normal triggering conditions, even if it doesn't make sense with the default flavor. Especially if it doesn't make sense with the default flavor. Because Wild Magic.

More generally, the point of using a table of random moves instead of a table of random novel effects is that figuring out how to resolve arbitrary flavor effects mechanically is hard, whereas giving ad hoc wild magic flavor to existing mechanics is easy and allows for player creativity. You're not actually using a move in the sense of invoking the fictional circumstances it would normally involve, just borrowing its mechanics because you've already decided that particular mechanical effect is reasonable for a player to produce.

1) Five main stats: 3 basic ones: Body, Mind and Soul (or analogue labels in the Cant, if possible)

In cant, Body would be soul-bag (according to fiends) or a soul-case (according to celestials), but Mind and Soul don't have a cant equivalent. Here's a good compilation of cant from the Planescape books; anything marked as "New" is a fan submission, but the rest is canon.

At chargen I'm considering giving the following values for players to distribute as they wish: +2, +1, 0, 0, -1.

You might want to tweak it slightly so that either you give out a total of three modifiers (e.g. 1/1/0/0/-1) or they add up to three (e.g 2/1/1/0/-1), since the Rule of Threes is one of the major three (see?) principles of the Wheel.

2) (Some) Basic moves based on Order and Chaos. Maybe shifting "Reading a Situation" to roll with Order (it's an analytical ability after all), and another one for Chaos (didn't decide yet). Maybe creating "Give the Blinds" ? Morte on Torment tells it everytime "You give the Blinds on the Dusties, chief?" meaning "Escape notice or a threat" which I find kinda fitting. "When you wanna Give the Blinds on someone or a threat, roll with Chaos. On a hit you escape their notice or the area entirely as you wish. On 10+ pick both, on 7-9 pick 1: - you don't leave traces of your destination behind; -you don't leave some item behind".

Other good cant-based names for moves would be Do the Bolt for fleeing/evading danger, Nick a Berk for a straightforward attack, Deliver the Mail for an assassination or underhanded attack, Skin a Razor to drive a hard bargain with someone, Catch a Skag for something perception-related, and Hear the Chant for gathering information.

3) Basic moves based on Planar hopping, that also use Order and Chaos (say, "When you enter Limbo, roll with Chaos. on a 10+ you're Ok. On 7-9 pick 1: -The chaotic soup makes you dizzy, take the "Shaken" condition; -You attract the attention of some hostile being. On a miss, both: you're "Shaken" and attract unwanted attention").

I'd suggest coming up with three moves for each plane, one like your example that triggers when entering the plane, a player move involving using the environment to your benefit somehow, and a GM move involving planar hazards.

For instance, for Limbo the player move could involve trying to stabilize the local space, turning it into a stone island or a barrier of water or the like, while the GM move could involve a sudden flux in local gravity/magic/elements that dramatically changes the environment. On Mechanus, the entry move could involve either appearing right on the edge of a gear and being flung to the next gear over and/or running into some moignos and gaining the [insert confusion-related condition here] condition, the player move could involve trying to take advantage of nearby gear movement to crush an opponent or get yanked out of reach just in time or something, and the GM move would involve the players having broken some obscure and situational law and having some modrons or inevitables sent to bring them in.

4) Basic moves that inflict/clean up Conditions (like in Masks and Monsterhearts). When you "Influence or Manipulate" someone roll stat. On a hit, you may Inflict a Condition on them", etc. For now I just thought of two conditions: "Inspired", that raises your main alignment stat (Chaos/Order) by 1 for the time. And "Shaken", that does the opposite. As faction moves are mostly based on these, you risk getting shutdown if your alignment stat drops too low.

You'll probably also want some standard conditions for the effects of specific Outer Planes. Some sort of condition for Elysium and Hades to represent getting very calm/depressed and not wanting to leave, a Confused/Insane one for Pandemonium, an Aggressive/Enraged/Inflamed/etc. one for Ysgard and Acheron spurring you to violence, and so forth.

[Guts]

Thanks for the help. That Cant link will be very useful.

About Planar moves, I think we could delegate them to an "Advanced moves" sheet to complement the Basic Moves one. This way players could default to some very basic move like "When you enter a plane of opposing alignment, you're Shaken" when they don't want to depict every plane minutia. Or... they can pull the advanced sheet and consult the specific move for, say, entering Arborea, if they prefer. That's exactly what 2nd ed of Apocalypse World does, btw.

Another important thing is deciding the hack agenda. In AW it is something like this:

- Make PCs lives interesting.
- Make the world feel real.
- Play to find what happens.

In Dungeon World it's like this:

- Make the PCs lives full of adventure.
- Make the world fantastic.
- Play to find what happens.

Planescape is a very wide setting, but I wanted to focus on the factions and their confrontation of ideas. So instead of adventures focused on plane hopping with Sigil as a base for resting, I'd rather adventures focus on Sigil and the factions cold war (the "Kriegstanz") with some planar incursions here and there consequential to that conflict. So, having this in mind, here is an attempt at an Agenda:

1 - Make the world superlatively fantastic.

2 - Challenge the PCs beliefs and convictions.

3 - Play to find what happens.

Point 1 means pumping the fantastic to eleven. You don't just meet an old wizard at the tavern, you meet a God of Magic in avatar form. You don't just go after a damsel in distress, you go free Sisyphus from his eternal toil, or resurrect Medusa so she and her gorgons join your faction cause, etc. Point 2 is the faction focus described above, and Point 3 is more or less mandatory for the engine anyway.

[Guts]

More playbook previews on the first post. Only updated the art and factions blurb. Tried to mix Diterlizzi with Amano. I'm liking the results so far...

...except the Dustman. If anyone has a suggestion, I'm all ears.

[Guts]

Basic moves and Planes moves: done.

The "Enter a plane" move leads to the individual planes effects.... which are basically a negative modifier in the form of Conditions together with a carrot in the form of xp gaining prompts. Ie: "when in Ysgard you're Enraged. Also, when you face a stronger opponent than you honorably, mark xp").

I've tried to depict each plane main motifs but I'm not that knowledgeable on the 2e Great Wheel, so any help is appreciated.

Oh, and I think I settled with the Agenda:

1. Make the planes fantastic and mythical; make Sigil weird, grimy and oppressive.
2. Challenge characters' convictions and beliefs.
3. Play to find what happens.

[Guts]

Are the races in the left making sense D&D-wise, and do they appear fun to play? I'm not much of a D&D player, and know the setting more from the Torment videogame (though I do have the PS box and a couple supplements here).