[OSSR] Cyberpunk 2020

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Post by pragma »

Drugs

Apparently, winners don’t do drugs.

This is a short chapter (with a refreshingly clear title) that contains several example drugs, rules for cooking your own drugs, and a moral. Every bit of Shadowtalk is ripped from an usually violent 80’s "special episode" about the dangers of reefer, and all the drug side affects are deeply crippling.

You cook drugs by picking an effect, a strength (numerical bonus of the effect), a duration and side effects, all of which combine to set a DC for 1d10+INT+pharmaceuticals. The example drugs don’t appear to have been built using these rules, so it’s hard to say if the addiction rules exist or not. The addiction side effect has you roll 1d10 under BT every hour after your last dose of the drug (forever?) to determine if you go into violent withdrawal, so I interpret that rule as “if you take this drug you are addicted.” However, some of the sample drugs refer to an "addiction save" that is never described in the text.

Refreshingly simple rules, but a bit puritanical and a bit explotable. Exploitable because if you can put up reliable pharmaceutical rolls vs. a target of 17 (INT + pharmaceuticals = 15 accounting for fumbles), then you can manufacture combat drugs that give everyone on your team side-effect free boosts of +2 REF that last 1d10+1 turns. Puritanical because even an alcohol equivalent causes crippling psychological addiction.

The puritanical attitude has been true of drug rules in every cyberpunk RPG and edition I’ve played, which seems a bit odd given the counterculture roots of the genre. In this case, the authors hide behind a cyberpunk dystopia a bit -- drugs are engineered to be addictive in CP2020 –- but the whole thing smacks of trying to preemptively dodge the Satanic Panic.

Also, Air Hypos are referred to as “Bones McCoys”, ugh.
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Post by Username17 »

The fact that Cyberpunk 20XX was willing to "go there" as far as the Mr. Stud implant was a level of adulting that Shadowrun never would not match at the time. For the Cyberpunk > Shadowrun people, that was pretty much the point of contention.

AncientHistory and I got some pretty out-there stuff into later editions of Shadowrun, but in the early nineties Shadowrun not only didn't have cyberdicks - it functionally bleeped swear words! Now I wouldn't accuse Cyberpunk 20XX of being especially mature about its "mature content," but it definitely had some while Shadowrun was consciously avoiding it.

Now the actual impacts of Essence and Humanity weren't super great. Neither Shadowrun nor Cyberpunk 20XX ever really threaded the needle properly. Both were going for a system where:
  • There was a mechanical incentive to have limited augmentation.
  • People got the kinds of "thematic" cyberware that appeared in period comics and literature.
  • You could explain how it worked "in world" rather than being a pure metagame currency like "character points."
Both games fell down on that. Explaining the difference in cost between a valuable piece of ware and tooth fillings was absolutely beyond either system. The costs in Humanity or Essence of a new piece of gear were impossible to predict based on in-world considerations, which meant that ultimately both tallies were functionally metagame currencies anyway.

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Post by Ancient History »

For both games, there was a serious worry about people going straight posthuman - which was far beyond what either game was functionally willing or able to handle at the time. I mean, it shouldn't actually be a problem in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 20XX to put your brain in a car and just have that be your character, except the game was not set up to handle anything that gee-whiz.

They wanted, basically, for it to still be a street game.

Drugs were another point of contention, both games "came of age" in the D.A.R.E. era, but Cyberpunk had juicer-gamers and Shadowrun had its combat drugs, and again, source material (which was based on the pill-popping kids of the 50s! Cyberpunk is ultimately the inheritor of Underdog) emphasized that better living through chemistry was totally a thing. The moral and ethical conflicts surrounding drugs, side effects, and addiction were things that become really difficult to annunciate in the context of an RPG aimed primarily at the teenager market.
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Post by pragma »

Update: I found the rules for addiction saves! Naturally, they’re in CP2013 and never mentioned in CP2020.

Netrunner

This chapter is about Netrunning, the in-universe term for hacking, and it’s a doozie. It uses ~50 pages, which is 20% of the ~250 page book. The last 30% of the book is taken up with fluff and GM advice, so a normal chapter is 12-13 pages, 1/3 the length of this monstrosity. I’m glad I had the throwaway medical chapters to give me a bit of writing runway for this thing. Given the world’s track record of writing good RPG hacking rules, you may be unsurprised to find that this is mostly sound and fury.

Though the core mechanic isn’t revealed until halfway through the chapter (a terrible choice for a 13-year-old in a hurry to show how cool hacking is to skeptical friends), starting with it makes this much easier. In order to perform a netrun, you connect to the net and then move around a series of maps at a rate of five squares per turn. Turns are 1 second long and allow you to take one action in addition to navigating. Navigating the maps requires you to take the LONG DISTANCE LINK action several times to zoom in from a continent level view, to a city level view and finally to the specific system you’re targeting, which is referred to as a subgrid or a data fortress (if the subgrid is fortified against intrusion). The exact route you take while you navigate matters for determining how many internet police are hunting you and how hard it is to trace your location. Here are some pictures to emphasize how baroque this all is (spoilered for length):
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You are free to start using other actions while you are in the city or subgrid levels of detail, and most of those will be RUN PROGRAM. This does what it says on the tin and allows you to invoke the rules associated with the program. The first program you’ll probably want to run is a stealth program, and things get a bit weird at this point. Stealth programs seem to have durations even though none are described in the text, the gameplay example sidebar (which is mixed with a lot of flavor text) describes a netrunner using stealth to avoid IC and then using a combat program while still stealthed. There also aren’t good rules for when you roll to detect stealth. You appear to roll to defeat stealth the first time a stealthed netrunner or program enters your range (20 squares) or when you run a detection program, which I guess is every turn that you’re not using a combat program since there’s no cost to using programs. (Aside: I swear I remember that programs had a “noisiness” associated with them that attracted intrusion countermeasures (IC, pronounced ice) to discourage their casual use, and there’s reference to the worm program breaking down data walls quietly in the text, but that statistic doesn’t seem to exist in this book.) It’s also not clear what’s stopping you from running invisibility again if you get detected.

Subgrids are comprised of data wall, code gates, hostile programs and stuff you might want to hack. You use programs to open up data walls and code gates, use different programs to hide from or kill any IC that show up, and wander around until you find the hackable thing you’re looking for. That means you spend essentially all of your run in combat time resolving attacks or detection attempts from IC (1d10 + INT + program strength opposed or 1d10 + program strength opposed depending on the type of test, which is not easy to remember). It’s wildly time consuming and there are many corner cases I don’t understand well.

One potentially interesting tactical note is that you can choose to target a netrunner’s programs instead of the netrunner, which could have been a promising mechanic for interesting duels in a better designed game. In fact, I believe at least one of the netrunner CCGs used that mechanic specifically, probably the earlier one that looked more like magic. While we’re on the subject, some of the discussion in “Designing Data Fortresses” later in this chapter clearly made it into the Android: Netrunner TCG.

The designers seemed to know there was a problem with the netrunning system. There’s a parallel (though tiny) set of rules, which lets a netrunner scan the local area for hackable things (purely up the GMs discretion) and roll to control them with 1d10 roll under control program strength. You can even remain ambulatory while doing so by springing for a (very expensive) cellular cyberdeck. Depending on how many things your GM lets you hack, this could be wildly powerful. At bare minimum, it’s very quick and doesn’t interfere with group play. Unfortunately, this is confined to a sidebar, a half column description in the section on the menu, and a blurb in the cellular cyberdeck description. A dueling author insertion? Hard to say.

Now that we’re armed with context, we can take things from the top. The chapter starts by explaining what the net and netrunners are, the former of which feels trite 30 years after the deployment of the world wide web. However, the essay establishes that netrunners interact with virtual worlds, can steal and sell valuable data, often support physical infiltration, and can be severely penalized. The text is verbatim from CP2013 again. This is followed by an essay about the visual representation of objects in the net, and oddly enough the specific made-up algorithm, Ihara-Grubb, used to render them is named and expounded upon.

The next subject are the different continent-level regions that you have to traverse to reach the specific computer that you are trying to hack. Many are insulting. For instance, the Midwest and East coast grid is referred to as “Rustbelt.” Even worse, though “Kingdom” is apparently common slang for regional grid, the first time the term is applied in the text is for the “Afrikani” gird, which is further described as “a chaotic wasteland of antiquated systems, shifting alliances and fanatics.” Both these descriptions and the cities in the grid above are disappointingly Western centric when it’s not outright racist. The descriptions do have one historical gem though: “The USSR nominally holds control over [SovSpace], with control gradually shifting to NetWatch and the European Economic Community,” none of these things exist anymore! (Another editing gem, NetWatch hasn’t been defined in the text before this.)

Discussions about how long distance links, offline computers (ominously called Wilderspace in keeping with the early 90’s idea that the internet was a wild west to be explored by console cowboys), Net Watch (internet cops, some corrupt), and Bulletin Boards (which often are virtual realities) follow. After that are discussion of interfaces, which are programs that determine how the net is perceived. They should not be confused with interface plugs, which connect your nervous system to the internet, or the interface special ability that netrunners have. They discuss the CP2013 interface rules as a historical interlude and invite you to make up your own icon skin.
The next four pages invite you to design your own cyberdeck. You spend exorbitant amounts to decide if your deck a combat assault deck or a cellular deck, and then spend even more to improve cyberdeck attributes like memory (determines how many programs you can take with you), speed (an initiative boost) and data walls (a negative to-hit modifier of bad-guy programs). This is, of course, all introduced before the combat rules that make use of these statistics. Some cyberdeck character sheets are provided in the middle of the book.

After this we’re treated to five pages of programs, which are all gibberish to us at this point. We know that each program has a strength, an amount of memory they consume, a price, and a block of special rules. Those blocks contain a lot of the meat of the netrunning system, but there is no context to read them at this point. An aside: I do think every program in the book has some unique combination of price point and functionality, to the author’s credit.

The book spends another page talking about phone bills. You need a phone line to go hacking, and the phone company will hand over your trace information readily or scramble a team of solos to kill you if you miss a payment. This is in line with my Comcast experience. This is also consistent with the early 90’s roots of this system: being able to make free long distance calls was a really important consideration with dial-up modems.

At this point we finally get to the actual netrunning rules discussed above, but still in a weird order. 5.5 pages are spent explaining that you move five squares per turn (I’m counting the maps from I included above in those five pages). Next the available net actions are explained in a section titled “The Menu,” which makes a really big deal about netrunners having a separate “hacking menu” available to them at all times in the net. The 1/2 page alternate hacking system is tucked in here under the LOCATE REMOTE and CONTROL REMOTE actions. We’ve already discussed RUN PROGRAM and LONG DISTANCE LINK. The remainder of menu entries are simple file manipulations (create, destroy, etc.) and rules for LOG OFF (1d10 roll under 8), which can be contested by some programs.

Finally, we get to the meat of the system: combat. Initiative is listed as computer’s INT + 1d10 vs. netrunner’s REG + DECK SPEED + 1d10. Why would you make this depend on REF?! That forces your netrunners to be good at shooting and is explicitly bad role protections. Net runners, as mentioned above, get one action per turn while computers can get 2-4 depending on how much money was shelled out for them, so it’s easy to be overwhelmed by a big system. This incentivizes bringing teams of hackers to kill the rapidly spawning programs, which is the only hacking system I’ve ever seen that encourages teamwork. Other attacks and stealth attempts are confusing nonsense where the rolls vary by target as described above. It’s worth noting that your interface skill and INT only appear when dueling other netrunners, so you could probably make a pretty effective script kiddy.
Much of my interpretation of these rules is guided by in-game hacking example that is also florid in-universe fiction (located in a sidebar up by The Menu for some reason). The example raises more questions than it answers. In one paragraph, the protagonist invokes a killer program in response to a system-controlled killer attacking his imp program. Is it assumed that the system missed on its first attack attempt? Or are they working on some alternate system in which actions are declared simultaneously? The problem, as usual, is that this was adapted directly from a CP2013 example with a minimal new coat of paint, but though CP2013 bore a superficial similarity to CP2020 – there were long-distance links and funny system maps to traverse – it’s rules were much different (and, upon inspection, better). A netrun was a series of die roll-offs between programs picked by you and the target system where only the winning program took effect. Initiative rolls are notably absent. So that standoff where you pick a program in response the system still reflects CP2013 rules. To reiterate: they wrote an example for the wrong rules!

(Digging around in CP2013 more also reveals a more sensible set of invisibility rules: you can try to invoke it to bypass IC in each “defense frame” you enter. Some are immune.)

Next up is a 13 page (a normal chapter!) interlude about how to design a data fortress. These are probably intended as GM facing rules, which makes their inclusing between two player facing sections a frustrating decision. However, it’s nice for players to price out how much they have to save to make a data fortress of their very own. The section is unusually well written for this book, with step-by-step instructions accompanied by a sane and informative example. I have no idea what happened! The prices it spits out are also interesting, business-scale expenses in the economy established by the universe thus far.

An amusing gem: there is a step in creating data fortresses called “Create Key Files,” which gives interesting examples of types of data on a system and the salable dirt that might be hidden in it. Some examples both date the author’s conceptions of what impressive memory looked like and are great over the top cyberpunk.
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Hundreds of thousands of pages!

Next up is programming, which uses essentially the same rules as cooking drugs with fewer options for addictive side effects. You select a program function, which mercifully gives a player a very little freedom to define new programs, and a set of programming options to give it fancy features. Impressively, they demonstrate how to build one of the example programs, the iconic Hellhound, using these rules. Surprising self-consistency! Teamwork is comically easy when programming, you just add the INTs and programming skills of all participating netrunners, which means a team with two netrunners could kit themselves out with the best software for free.

Finally, there are rules for creating virtual realities. It will probably not surprise you at this point that there was a comical editing failure and this is the second time these rules have been stated: creating data fortresses included a subsection called “Virtuals Are Their Own Reward,” which had rules for calculating the memory of virtual realities and an abbreviated version of many of the descriptions in this section. The lore is oddly specific, all virtual realities are made by a program called CREATOR which makes reality creation as easy as visualizing stuff in your head. The details about how much memory virtual realities fill, which influences the kinds of data fortresses they need to be stored in; how much they cost; and how much labor goes into making them, which has much less forgiving teamwork rules, are interesting bits of world building. However, the example virtual reality they use to explain the rules is not: The Hunt Club is actually just a virtual reality manor where rich people talk to each other – no robot sex or refugee AIs or secret illuminati meetings to be found! Historical note, a side bar references a GOSUB routine, which is a throwback to BASIC.

OK, this chapter’s a mess. It can’t even decide what rules it wants to use, only that it wants netrunners wandering around online dungeons to mock D&D. It falls short of the bar, which is SR3s hacking. The SR3 system was dull as dishwater, but it made sense (if you assumed no one ever got into cybercombat): you rolled tests against a system and your failures accrued over multiple tests, alerting the system to scramble more IC against you. It actually resembled the CP2013 system in some ways, specifically that it was a naked dice throwing contest between the GM and the player with some elements of pushing your luck. (Caveat Emptor: I think Ends might be pretty good, but I haven’t managed to grok it all, mostly because I’d need to read it in one sitting.)

Conveniently, the last picture in the chapter is an accurate summary of how I feel after finishing this section of the review.
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Post by pragma »

Ancient History wrote:Martial arts are one of those things where pretty much any attempt at granularity or realism tends to run up hard against the realities of simulationism in game design...and that's before you get to things like gamers rarely knowing shit about actual martial arts, Asian or otherwise.

But it is a thing where martial arts training are totally Full Of Tropes; Battle Angel Alita was built on the idea of a cyborg-specific kick-ass martial art, and it's not alone.
Yeah, I've never seen a set of martial arts rules that didn't boil down to a clunky pile of bonuses in exchange for build points. I also haven't ever seen solo hand-to-hand combat elevated to interesting play without a board game supporting it. Riddle of Steel tried and was roundly mocked on this board.

I'd like to see a set of advanced rules that provided for interesting blow-by-blow modeling of duels or boxing matches, and I'd like to be able to bolt those on top of an existing system so players could decide whose kung-fu was stronger in this bonus minigame. You could use something like knowledge skill points to let players pay into the kung fu tournament at minimal cost or campaign disruption.
Frank wrote:Both games fell down on that. Explaining the difference in cost between a valuable piece of ware and tooth fillings was absolutely beyond either system. The costs in Humanity or Essence of a new piece of gear were impossible to predict based on in-world considerations, which meant that ultimately both tallies were functionally metagame currencies anyway.
It seems like both games had such an easy way to clean this up in-setting: make the act of hooking things up to your nervous system steal your soul. That conveniently excludes all current implants, and writing fluff where your skin armor is nervous-system-connected to allow you a sense of touch seems straightforward.
Ancient History wrote:The moral and ethical conflicts surrounding drugs, side effects, and addiction were things that become really difficult to annunciate in the context of an RPG aimed primarily at the teenager market.
This is very salient both from and ethical and marketing point of view. Nuanced discussions of anything with teenagers seems tough, so I'd feel uncomfortable writing a chemical-neutral chapter aimed at them. Also, if I'd read a book that had a remotely positive message about drugs during the DARE era I probably would have burned it. (Because I was pretty square!)
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Post by Username17 »

pragma wrote:It seems like both games had such an easy way to clean this up in-setting: make the act of hooking things up to your nervous system steal your soul. That conveniently excludes all current implants, and writing fluff where your skin armor is nervous-system-connected to allow you a sense of touch seems straightforward.
The biggest issue is that if you can plug a wire into your head that allows you to control a car, you can plug a wire into your head that allows you to control a robot suit.

The whole "loss of soul" concept doesn't seem like it would apply to power armor. Or driving a tank. We want people to cut their arms off and replace it with guns, because that's awesome and in-genre. But there isn't any inherent advantage to doing that over just carrying the same weapons or even having bigger weapons on a push cart of some kind.

The fundamental question of "why implant the phone instead of carrying the phone?" is not one that Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 20XX ever really grappled with.

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Post by Foxwarrior »

As far as I can tell, Ghost in the Shell's answer to "why implant a device with the capabilities of a smartphone in between your brain and your eyes so that hackers can mess with your perceptions, instead of just using a regular smartphone?" was "what's a smartphone?"

Robot limbs are at least really sweet and there are decent reasons not to lug around regular limbs too when you have robot ones as an option.
Last edited by Foxwarrior on Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dean »

Shadowrun's fascination with body modification and internal upgrades posit a setting massively more focused around stealth than Shadowrun is. If the assumption was that the dramatic majority of jobs were done in locations you couldn't even bring a pistol without being caught then suddenly being the guy with robo arms and hidden wolverine blades is amazing rather than stupid.

I would address this by having every mission make the authorities respond to your party. How they do so depends on your "Trace" (how much evidence you left behind) and your "Impact" (how heavy your weaponry used was). Impact determines how hardcore and fast the response is, Trace determines how long it follows you. So leave a ton of evidence during an attempted robbery and maybe some detective is tailing you for a long time trying to catch you red handed. On the other hand if your attempted robbery of a Casino upgrades from a knife pointed at a teller to grenade launchers being fired at security then Robo-Swat will be busting through the windows in minutes and those authorities tailing you for weeks won't be a concern cause you'll be fucking dead.

If Shadowrun wanted to be serious about how important internal body armor and guns that pop out of your wrist are they needed to make the idea of bringing real guns anywhere something you wanted to avoid under most conditions. You could still have the occasional mission who's concept was that some Megacorp was backing you so security channels were being jammed and you're encouraged to go full rock and roll on the chemical laboratory but to fit the setting conceits they keep writing you'd need to go hard on minimizing access to normal weapons and tools.
Last edited by Dean on Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Foxwarrior »

Yeah, my first Shadowrun character was supposed to be a face who maybe has to shoot people with a concealed pistol sometimes when negotiations go bad or caught while being given a tour or something, but in practice he alternated between sweet-talking people and showing up to out-of-the-way research labs and shooting everyone to death with an airburst grenade launcher/assault rifle.
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Post by Username17 »

Dean wrote:If Shadowrun wanted to be serious about how important internal body armor and guns that pop out of your wrist are they needed to make the idea of bringing real guns anywhere something you wanted to avoid under most conditions.
The big conflict of course is the existence of "pink mohawk" sensibilities. On the one hand, you have various hidden weapons and gadgets that could be concealed in eyeballs - but you also had Cyberpunk 20XX's "combat zones" and Shadowrun ranting about open shootouts on the freeway.

Neither game ever fully reconciled how the "bland looking ninja with gadgets hidden under the skin" was supposed to be remotely playable in the same stories and missions as characters who looked like one of the Motorball contestants from Gunm. I mean, either normal office buildings have "grenade netting" because of all the explosives people casually throw around or we have to worry greatly about passing ourselves off as unarmed civilians. It genuinely can't be both.

But neither esthetic was one that either Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 20XX was willing to let go of. We were doing Smash TV and GATACA at the same time! Even though that makes no sense!

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Post by Dean »

Something like "Combat Zones" and areas where things are so lawless that no response is coming for anything less than heavy ordinance would help square those two circles though.

I think the pink mohawk crew would be willing to wear hats specially made to keep their badass hair secret until they can reveal their glorious hairdo's as they start shouting that this is a robbery.

I think the game should level up into the world of laser ninja's and exo suits. But in the same way that mundane fighters needs to evolve as a concept so does PI with a gun in his wrist need to level up to cyberninja by the time you stop caring about whether security shows up because you're basically your own mercenary corp now. More stealth at the beginning when you can't handle triggering security and more rock and roll once your team's rigger is in a van piloting the attack helicopters you're using to keep the perimeter clear.
Last edited by Dean on Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stahlseele »

yeah, no, pink mohawk and trenchcoats generally do not go well with each other.
only scenarios i can see that working out is the trenchcoat mafia needing a distraction or needing to be bailed out when they run into something with far too much combar prowress for them to counter . .
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Post by GnomeWorks »

FrankTrollman wrote:either normal office buildings have "grenade netting" because of all the explosives people casually throw around or we have to worry greatly about passing ourselves off as unarmed civilians. It genuinely can't be both.
Why couldn't it be both, though?

Outside of the corporate campuses is the wild west, and anything goes. Buildings are given additional protection against explosives and what-not because the locals are regularly shooting each other with heavy artillery, and people walk around obviously loaded for bear and then some.

Meanwhile, within the corporate enclaves, everything is nice and peaceful. If someone isn't obviously security, then their having an obvious weapon of any kind is cause for immediate suspicion - after all, we're safe inside our walls, and Big Brother is watching.

Almost goes with an Elysium feel, and makes the dystopian class divides that much more in-your-face.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Yeah, and the fact that the cops are a for profit corp. means they have little to no incentive to actually do work where the cost is greater than the income.

Still, the wild west is only in certain zones, not everywhere outside of the corp. enclaves.

Nighttime strikes me more like the deal of the gangs with the new york police department from the Double-Dragon Movie.

You stay inside, we rule the night.
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Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by pragma »

I like both Dean and GnomeWorks pitches for some of these setting ideas, and I believe you can write a cyberpunk world that allows for both Pink Mohawk and Black Trenchcoat sensibilities. However, one of the appeals of the Cyberpunk genre is that it's "kind of like now" (though that will become less and less true as the 80's fades), and many of these proposals require making worlds that are very obviously not like now.

I don't know how best to square that circle. Having a big-brother zone and a suns-out-guns-out zone seems like an OK step. The fluff could also pay more attention to describing how many Shadowruns are happening, where they are, and how they bridge across the border between suns-out-guns-out and normal-land. Maybe you only have netting on office parks adjacent to the combat zone.
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Post by pragma »

All Things Dark and Cyberpunk

We’ll kick this off with a reminder that the line art is still bringing the heat very regularly:
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The next 5 chapters are all fluff, setting building and GM advice. They’re also confusingly named: "All Things Dark and Cyberpunk" is a superheading that is applied to many chapters, and also the best name to describe the body of text that immediately follows here. It seems to be both the title of a “sub-book” and also this chapter. The table of contents isn’t much clearer.

Young pragma read these, but the setting information left almost no impact other than the requisite rambling RPG fiction and a series of phenomenal adventure hooks called Screamsheets. I’m excited to find out if being an adult who knows anything about history improves the section. (For context, I was pretty fuzzy on the existence of the Vietnam War at the time I read this.)

FUTURE SHOCK: Hisotry of an Alternate Time

“All Things Dark and Cyberpunk” has subsections (though the formatting isn’t great for pointing this out), and the the first of these is “FUTURE SHOCK: History of An Alternate Time.” I was planning to mock it, but the whole thing is eerily prescient (especially compared to Shadowrun’s much more gonzo “So It Came to Pass”). For example, the opening quote is:
CP2020 wrote:In the United States, thirty-two years of corrupt government and economic destabilization have resulted in a nation divided – by class, by race and by economics.
Ouch! That hits a little closer to home than I was ready for.

The US’s overall subplot is that it eviscerated the middle class creating a giant revolutionary underclass, impoverished itself in needless and corrupt foreign wars (in Central America in-universe), and then imposed martial law to control the riots. The chapter posits bullseye style cities with clean corporate cores, a ring of decaying inner city referred to as “Combat Zones,” Stepford Wives corporate suburbs, and interstates/highways controlled by nomadic gangs of the newly homeless. Also, the US was run by something called the Gang of Four (few details) and dabbled frequently in agricultural biowarfare, which wiped out both small farms and narcotic plants the world over. At present, the US continues to saber rattle and posture belligerently even though European space superiority allows them to cow the USA into submission by dropping chunks of the moon on major metropolitan areas.

The European picture in CP2020 is a rosier than the real world, but it also has some solid futurism. It predicts that the European Economic Community would take off with the following results:
CP2020 wrote: “creating a stable, profitable economony in which most European nations participate – the exceptions to which are Italy, Spain and Greece – all of which suffer chronic political upheavals
They picked some winners.

The book also predicts the rest of the world has “suffered heavily from protective European tariffs and unfair trade practices,” which is a sentence you could imagine being uttered about real-world China easily. It’s a good guess about how the economy would evolve even if they put it in the wrong place.

The rest of the Cp2020 world is a mixed bag. The book assumes that the Soviet Union would still be doing reform in 2020, when Putin squashed that in 2000 in real world history. The time scale is off, but the chapter’s basic predication of a battle between authoritarian cold warriors and capitalist reform was correct. The book also predicts a strained relationship between Japan and the US with fault lines between the nations based on 1990s trade wars. Cp2020 Japan is also in a tense antebellum with the rest of east asia, particularly CP2020 China, which allied with the US as its market emerged.

The chapter indulges in a bit of “darkest Africa” and other savage races nonsense. Violent revolutions in South Africa tipped the African continent into genocidal wars and now “New Africa emerged as a fractured continent of warring countries under a bewildering array dictators, democracies and socialist states.” Fortuntately, the book doesn’t end there; The book posits that Africa takes advantage of it’s equatorial geography to take a lead in space technology but, sigh, “Technology has joined Africa under one government,” which erases a lot of culture and history.

Similarly, CP2020 makes the middle east a dilapidated region failing to recover from a nuclear war. It is governed by local warlords, religious fanatics and warrior-tribes. Only Egypt, Syria and Israel have survived as countries. I don’t know exactly what motivated the inclusion of Syria as a survivor, but it’s backwards from the real world result.

Also similarly, CP2020 says “South America is a warzone of juntas, secret police, ex-drug lords and military oppression torn by periodic combat and revolution.” However, in a reversal of it’s consistent trashing of brown people, it says “Central America has emerged as a strong union of independent states …”

This ends the history subsection and the book moves onto a longer-than-expected discussion of laws. Before we cover that, it’s worth noting that even though the history is frightening, prescient and relatively non-insulting for something written in the 90’s, the formatting is nonsense. Throughout the subsection the bottom half of the page is a bulleted timeline and the top half of the page is an essay about the current state of the world. This necessitates a lot of flipping back and forth to match up the timeline and the essay. Also a few significant world events – the three corporate wars and a few allusions to CP2013 adventures – take place only in the timeline.

Legal Background and Weapons

The book doesn’t anticipate police changing dramatically, but it does remind the reader about Psycho Squads, the anti-cyberpsychosis SWAT teams from earlier in the book. It also introduces the idea of limited extraterritoriality by suggesting that contracted corporate cops patrol corporate facilities. Apparently, corporate cops have a reputation for increased viciousness and covering up both crimes and police brutality using corporate resources.

The state of the law is given more attention because it has been dramatically simplified. The justification is that dissatisfaction in the 90’s (which included lynching criminal defense lawyers) proved that the legal system was falling apart. So the US invoked martial law and the civilian government kept much of the military code of justice when they were reconstituted. Plea bargaining doesn’t exist, the death penalty is standard for murder and only has a 3 month appeals window, felonies have mandatory 5-10 year prison terms, and misdemeanors are handled with “personality adjustment” (scary Cyberpunk stuff where your brain gets reprogrammed) or exile (scary Cyberpunk stuff where an implant causes you crippling pain in a city). Self defense is vastly expanded, and drugs are de facto legal because all of the existing brain benders are corporate products designed to skirt narcotics laws rendered defunct by the extinction of opium.

Prisons are overcrowded and violent, so sometimes they put prisoners in
“braindance” (scary cyberpunk stuff where you are kept in a VR prison, but which is also applied to EMPATHY restoring therapy). State executioners are authorized to chase down death row escapees.

Gun control statues have mostly been repealed, so a CP2020 permitting process involves an application, a 4 day waiting period + background check, a $25 fee, and having the gun registered with the FBI. You’re liable for anything done with your weapon unless it’s stolen. Fully automatic weapons are illegal, but still common. Much is made of using resin pistols because this came out near the height of Glock 17 hysteria, and this is spun in a fun angle by introducing polymer one-shots targeted at casual consumers and tweens.

It’s good for a book about doing crimes to establish what’s legal and what’s not, so I like this section. I’d prefer if it touched on personal body armor as well because of the strong effects that has on the combat system. It’s also depressing that the most dystopian gun laws the authors could think of are still more restrictive than what we’ve got today: they didn’t go dystopian enough here.

Vehicles

Of course we’re going to hide vehicle stats in the middle of a fluff chapter!

The subsection starts off suggesting that there haven’t been significant breakthroughs in transportation technology and that we should expect urban centers to look like they currently do. It then goes on to suggest a bunch of big innovations including ubiquitous tilt-rotor aircraft, short haul magnetic trains, urban assault hovercraft and synthetic fuel. These descriptions include top speeds, travel ranges and combat statistics for these vehicles, which feel wildly misplaced to me.

Information Services
CP2020 wrote:Letters are normally used for personal correspondence
CP2020 wrote:[Fax] is the letter writing mode of the future
CP2020 wrote:[Cellular Phones] are about the size of a hand held walky-talky. They operate on rechargeable batteries good for about 12 hours, recharging from a wall socket in 6 hours.
CP2020 wrote:To stay competitive with television most newspapers now use Fax technology … The result is a slick, flimsy newspaper know in streetslang as a screamsheet.
CP2020 wrote:An all pervasive force in 2020, television has moved into the realm of total entertainment. One-hundred and eight-one channels now crows the airwaves
CP2020 wrote:In the United States, three privately owned entertainment networks predominate … these networks are the broadcast divisions of three massive entertainment conglomerates
Archeological treasure! (Though the TV stuff has a kernel of truth to it). CP2020 missed the boat on the net being used for news and communication, but these details do give a quaint authenticity to the cyber-1980s the book is evoking. As a further example, consider that public pay phones are reimagined as publicly-accessible, privately-run, pay-per-minute computers called Data Terms. Data terms are explicitly called out as heavily armored and ubiquitous enough to be cover for most firefights.

The rest of the chapter is pictures of guns, cars, cameras, phones and computers that make up dat-to-day life in CP2020. The visual reference is a great idea. Examples below
ImageImageImage

This whole chapter is really good, especially in retrospect. It sets up a believable societal collapse that only feels a little exaggerated from the 80s, and I think their “follow the money” approach works well for believability. Unfortunately, it also runs up against one of the central issues in cyberpunk fiction: fighting the man goes poorly and working for the man pays well. One of the sadder things about the real world is that all the Cyberpunks went on to make Facebook, and this chapter sets the stage for the same thing to happen in world, with only a brief nod to the idea of a disorganized and hopeful resistance forming in America’s underclass.
Last edited by pragma on Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Libertad »

pragma wrote:All Things Dark and Cyberpunk

FUTURE SHOCK: Hisotry of an Alternate Time

The US’s overall subplot is that it eviscerated the middle class creating a giant revolutionary underclass, impoverished itself in needless and corrupt foreign wars (in Central America in-universe), and then imposed martial law to control the riots. The chapter posits bullseye style cities with clean corporate cores, a ring of decaying inner city referred to as “Combat Zones,” Stepford Wives corporate suburbs, and interstates/highways controlled by nomadic gangs of the newly homeless. Also, the US was run by something called the Gang of Four (few details) and dabbled frequently in agricultural biowarfare, which wiped out both small farms and narcotic plants the world over. At present, the US continues to saber rattle and posture belligerently even though European space superiority allows them to cow the USA into submission by dropping chunks of the moon on major metropolitan areas.
Wait a second. How big are these chunks? Is the full moon still a big circular plate in the sky albeit with more craters, or does it look like a half-cracked snowglobe?
The rest of the Cp2020 world is a mixed bag. The book assumes that the Soviet Union would still be doing reform in 2020, when Putin squashed that in 2000 in real world history. The time scale is off, but the chapter’s basic predication of a battle between authoritarian cold warriors and capitalist reform was correct. The book also predicts a strained relationship between Japan and the US with fault lines between the nations based on 1990s trade wars. Cp2020 Japan is also in a tense antebellum with the rest of east asia, particularly CP2020 China, which allied with the US as its market emerged.
I'm rather interested in how much of said Soviet reformation is being influenced by megacorps who want to set up new client bases for their 200+ million Russian customers.

GET THE NEW CYBER RAVE HOME CONSOLE SYSTEM, COMRADE, AND MOW DOWN THOSE CAPITALIST PIGS FOR THE LOW, LOW PRICE OF 2,000 RUBLES A MONTH!
Last edited by Libertad on Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by pragma »

Libertad wrote:
pragma wrote:All Things Dark and Cyberpunk

FUTURE SHOCK: Hisotry of an Alternate Time

The US’s overall subplot is that it eviscerated the middle class creating a giant revolutionary underclass, impoverished itself in needless and corrupt foreign wars (in Central America in-universe), and then imposed martial law to control the riots. The chapter posits bullseye style cities with clean corporate cores, a ring of decaying inner city referred to as “Combat Zones,” Stepford Wives corporate suburbs, and interstates/highways controlled by nomadic gangs of the newly homeless. Also, the US was run by something called the Gang of Four (few details) and dabbled frequently in agricultural biowarfare, which wiped out both small farms and narcotic plants the world over. At present, the US continues to saber rattle and posture belligerently even though European space superiority allows them to cow the USA into submission by dropping chunks of the moon on major metropolitan areas.
Wait a second. How big are these chunks? Is the full moon still a big circular plate in the sky albeit with more craters, or does it look like a half-cracked snowglobe?
A "12 ton rock" was dropped off of Washington DC, which is 3.2m^3 of moon rock. Not clear if that was the launch size or the amount that made it through being burned up in re-entry. Also Colorado Springs got wiped off the map by a rock of unspecified size.

Another gem I just reread: the book predicted a conflict in the South China Sea (but between petrochemical corporations instead of nation states acting on behalf of petrochemical corporations). A less fortunate line that came up in the reread is that Great Britain was "swamped by massive immigration and an antiquated tehcnological base," which sounds a little too fascist for my taste.
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Post by Blade »

For my Shadowrun I decided to have Pink Mohawk be a possible tactics for Black Trenchcoats.

I have an (optional) rule that considers that people are so "mediatized" that when faced with something out of the ordinary (like a bunch of Shadowrunners attacking a building) they'll fallback to what they know from the Trid and Simgames.

This means that if the people they face are faceless goons in black trenchcoats, they'll see them as mooks they need to kill. But if they see extravagant people with a lot of style, they'll see them as the heroes and will feel powerless against them.

In game terms, PCs (and possibly some NPCs) have a "style index" which goes from 1 to 6 and depends on how stylish the character is and also how he acts: if they come crashing down from the ceiling with their theme song, the style index will go up. If they sneak around and hide behind cover, it'll go down.

NPCs have a "media resistance" score (also from 1 to 6) which shows how likely they are to be influenced by the style. It depends both on the environment they live in (outcasts who have never seen a trid movie will be less impacted than corporate employees who are constantly saturated with media) and their training.

The difference between the two is added as a bonus to the PC's actions against these NPCs.
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Post by Nath »

FrankTrollman wrote:The big conflict of course is the existence of "pink mohawk" sensibilities. On the one hand, you have various hidden weapons and gadgets that could be concealed in eyeballs - but you also had Cyberpunk 20XX's "combat zones" and Shadowrun ranting about open shootouts on the freeway.

Neither game ever fully reconciled how the "bland looking ninja with gadgets hidden under the skin" was supposed to be remotely playable in the same stories and missions as characters who looked like one of the Motorball contestants from Gunm. I mean, either normal office buildings have "grenade netting" because of all the explosives people casually throw around or we have to worry greatly about passing ourselves off as unarmed civilians. It genuinely can't be both.

But neither esthetic was one that either Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 20XX was willing to let go of. We were doing Smash TV and GATACA at the same time! Even though that makes no sense!
The real world has a drug cartel posing as knight templars with plastic helmets, roaming the streets of a Mexican city with assault rigles and kevlar vest, and a company ran by former Israeli spies gathering intelligence to protect an Hollywood millionaire rom rape lawsuits in New York. Such fact previously led me to believe the Pink Mohawk and Black Trenchcoat could be reconciled within the same setting (without it being Torg).

But the core issue in the Pink Mohawk/Black Trenchcoat debate is not the level of violence in society in general. It is the level of violence the protagonists (ie - the player characters) may be directly involved in... and get away with without being killed or jailed. Which make the rules and chargen rules just as important as the setting. The real world can accomodate narcos and ex-spies with unified combat mechanisms because those two populations have very different analysis regarding what is an acceptable life expectancy in their respective line of work and how enjoyable life in jail is (and also because they see a lot less action than your average game requires for fun). On the other hand, players, whether they're Pink Mohawk or Black Trenchcoat, tend to have similar expectations, basically wanting their character to survive and succeed. I don't think the Cyberpunk or Shadowrun rulesets allow to finetune chargen and char progression alone in a way to could settle the isssue, and any adjustment to combat lethality proper is going to get one side or the other to lose their characters on a consistent basis.
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Post by WiserOdin032402 »

Man I need to stop wasting wishes on stupid shit like getting a Cyberpunk 2020 OSSR to happen.
Longes wrote:My favorite combination is Cyberpunk + Lovecraftian Horror. Because it is really easy to portray megacorporations as eldritch entities: they exist for nothing but generation of profit for the good of no one but the corporation itself, they speak through interchangeable prophets-CEOs, send their cultists-wageslaves to do their dark bidding, and slowly and uncaringly grind life after life that ends in their path, not caring because they are far removed from human morality.
DSMatticus wrote:Poe's law is fucking dead. Satire is truth and truth is satire. Reality is being performed in front of a live studio audience and they're fucking hating it. I'm having Cats flashbacks except now the cats have always been at war with Eurasia. What the fuck is even real? Am I real? Is Obama real? Am I Obama? I don't fucking know, man.
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Post by pragma »

WiserOdin032402 wrote:Man I need to stop wasting wishes on stupid shit like getting a Cyberpunk 2020 OSSR to happen.
I am a living monkeys paw. Another example: I'd put even money on one of my students saying, "I wish I never had to go to lab again."
Last edited by pragma on Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pragma »

Running Cyberpunk

The DMG equivalent for this book is three pages long. This is dumb: they could have moved data fortress construction, NPC generation and a bunch of other stuff here to streamline the body of the text. It’s also dumb because Cyberpunk RPGs really benefit from GM guidelines about how to map fluff into a meaningful game for characters. Keeping the crunch and fluff in sync is tough in this genre. For instance, keeping iterative probability in check really helps specialists feel like specialists, so guidelines about how many stealth rolls is an easy or hard sneak would be really welcome. See also prior discussion about how to keep mohawks and trenchcoats from trying to play ball in the same parts of the world.

In fact, I wish they'd take a cue from Chamomiles DMG and articulated various types of cyberpunk adventures you could have -- gang wars, heists, road trips, big hacks -- and articulated rules for each. You could do the same for a Cyberpunk campaign. More DM guides should talk about how to implement different types of adventures, have GM facing rules frameworks, and say anything about the math underlying the game system.

A sidebar contains a bit of Shadowtalk from “Maximum Mike,” which is Mike Pondsmith’s cosplay name, suggesting that Cyberpunk stories shouldn’t just be shooting people (“Dungeons and Drug Dealers”) but rather have to capture various bits of noir ambiance. The advice is OK, and it dovetails with the first few paragraphs of the chapter, which explain what makes a cyberpunk story: urban environment, paranoia, inequality and moral ambiguity. The advice takes a sharp turn for the worse as it proceeds to recommend the worst GM dickery at every turn:
CP2020 wrote:“If they cache weapons somewhere, steal them. If they stop for a rest, mug them. If they can’t handle the pressure, they shouldn’t be playing Cyberpunk. Send them back to that nice role-playing game with the happy elves and the singing birds.”
They also recommend wearing a leather jacket, playing rock music and putting in blue light bulbs to run the game, so mileage on these instructions obviously varies.

150 pages after introducing the character archetypes they finally explain how you’re supposed to make a playable game. The chapter acknowledges “The players will have no reason to trust anyone, and the conventional reasons (stop evil, kill monsters) for an adventuring party won’t work.” (Oddly, the rest of that paragraph is a bizarre word salad. I think the author’s distaste for D&D, performative or not, caused a temporary seizure.) So the game suggests that Cyberpunk characters be “thrown together by Fate” into a team, and goes on to suggest a variety of decent hooks including Corporate Teams, Bands, Trauma Teams, Mercenaries, Gangs, Nomad Packs, Cops and Media Teams. Rereading these pitches, I’m hyped to make a newsroom where no one has any combat ability; the idea of making a game that’s not explicitly about heists kind of appeals here. However, the lack of rules for anything but shooting doom that dream.

The chapter also points out that unemployed Rockerboys can work for anyone, so you can cobble together teams even if your players don’t fit the normal roles.[/url]
Last edited by pragma on Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WiserOdin032402 »

Also, on roles and such, Solos are weird due to how hard CP2020's combat leans on going first. Solos have a particular habit of going first and a called shot is only a -4 penalty...and since they're a solo their combat stats are yes. The DC 10 hit range for pistols is piddly but for a submachine gun or rifle is far enough that they're literally rolling to see if they natural 1. Headshots do double damage so if you don't have a helmet you basically die. Since a lot of weapons have a high rate of fire a solo who goes first with a weapon that has a Rate of Fire of...say...5 can pop five headshots with his one combat action and then blow an extra action to move into cover.

It's a little fucked.

Also I don't think I've seen mention of the Cop role, contender of probably the role with the worst profession skill.

Shit, speaking of professions I have a review of a CP2020 hack to finish...
Longes wrote:My favorite combination is Cyberpunk + Lovecraftian Horror. Because it is really easy to portray megacorporations as eldritch entities: they exist for nothing but generation of profit for the good of no one but the corporation itself, they speak through interchangeable prophets-CEOs, send their cultists-wageslaves to do their dark bidding, and slowly and uncaringly grind life after life that ends in their path, not caring because they are far removed from human morality.
DSMatticus wrote:Poe's law is fucking dead. Satire is truth and truth is satire. Reality is being performed in front of a live studio audience and they're fucking hating it. I'm having Cats flashbacks except now the cats have always been at war with Eurasia. What the fuck is even real? Am I real? Is Obama real? Am I Obama? I don't fucking know, man.
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Post by WiserOdin032402 »

[Double Post]
Last edited by WiserOdin032402 on Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Longes wrote:My favorite combination is Cyberpunk + Lovecraftian Horror. Because it is really easy to portray megacorporations as eldritch entities: they exist for nothing but generation of profit for the good of no one but the corporation itself, they speak through interchangeable prophets-CEOs, send their cultists-wageslaves to do their dark bidding, and slowly and uncaringly grind life after life that ends in their path, not caring because they are far removed from human morality.
DSMatticus wrote:Poe's law is fucking dead. Satire is truth and truth is satire. Reality is being performed in front of a live studio audience and they're fucking hating it. I'm having Cats flashbacks except now the cats have always been at war with Eurasia. What the fuck is even real? Am I real? Is Obama real? Am I Obama? I don't fucking know, man.
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