The Biden Administration (No Lago)

[MGuy]

We have laws on our books, just the US's, against doing what we're doing. Several officials have quit in protest over that very thing. The Biden admin restricted use of the word ceasefire, went over congress to push more weapons into Israel, and has repeatedly stated there are no red lines. That and more, in a sane world, should qualify to get him tried in The Hague right beside every military leader in the IDF plus whatever politicians in Israel have a say in the genocide. What Israel is doing and has done has been considered illegal internationally as well as anybody helping them do it. It IS legal for the US, as a security council member, to put a stop to most other nations trying to make demands of Israel and we only decided to not do that once.

So dead's whole 'it's complicated to not do terrible things' speech is not JUST disgusting do nothing talk. It's also just a lie.

[Kaelik]

No, I think the genocide is happening. I think it has been happening since before October 4th. I think that there are a lot of tools the U.S. has to affect policy in other countries short of military force and we should use them.

It's a minor point, because I actually don't think remembering a specific date actually matters in figuring out if genocide is bad, but I think it's very fucking funny that the "you have to know about the League Of Nations before you can have an opinion on genocide" guy also keeps typing "October 4th" like this is a significant and important date.

Who on this site was arguing that the United States should invade Myanmar to stop the genocide of the Rohingya? Maybe it's because adding more military forces would actually result in more killing, not less?

See, an interesting fact about Myanmar is that the US does not in fact give them weapons and bomb other countries when those other countries threaten Myanmar. In fact, the US government SANCTIONS Myanmar. It's almost like you are a lying piece of shit who is constantly lying about what the US is doing because you support what the US is actually doing, but you know you can't argue for that.

I called Kaelik out on his bold faced lie (or joke) that Biden would be happy to bomb New York.

LMAO. It's so funny that deaddm apparently does believe 100% that Joe Biden would storm the stage to give Netenyahu more bullets if he shot Kamala Harris during the VP debate, since he hasn't even once CALLED OUT my LIE the he would do that.

When it became clear that he is advocating for the dissolution of Israel I also made sure that everyone is aware that's what he's doing. That's not popular with the American people.

Instead of using a poll that doesn't actually define Israel, why don't you answer my question? What is the Israel that you believe has a right to exist?

Classic deaddm though, to just look at US polling for whether the US public supports Aparthied South Africa in the 70s and then just say "this proves there must always be aparthied because it's impossible to change peoples minds with politics."

I'm also not advocating that Hawaii should be made a country ruled over by a Queen because that's how it was 130 years ago. If you go back far enough someone else has some claim to the spot you're living and they'd like it back please.

This is another example of deaddm doing bad faith lying. Apparently, to deaddm, having a single state with equal rights for all is EXACTLY THE SAME as reinstating the Ottoman Empire. Or you know, he's lying because he opposes equal rights for Palestinians and loves ethnostates, but he doesn't have any actual argument for it.

Kaelik's suggestion that we all migrate to the Philippines where he thinks we'll all be welcome is a distraction from the reality

Can literally anyone even parse this violently delusional psychosis? Does anyone know what the fuck he is talking about?

- the people in Israel aren't going anywhere without a fight. Any suggestion that they should ignores the reality as it exists today. You can make all kinds of pronouncements about how such and such event happened the 'wrong way' and if it had happened the right way we wouldn't be in this situation, but you can't actually change the past.

Again, this is just deaddm lying about what other people have said because he doesn't have an argument against what people actually said. No one is saying we can change the past, we have all, repeatedly, told you that we can change the present and future by having one state with equal rights for all and not having Aparthied and and Ethnostate.

We have actual evidence that this can happen because it has happened! Deaddm is just making the same argument for Aparthied that he also would have made for Aparthied in South Africa, but we did in fact end that! It ended! So it is possible! The fact that bad white people did colonialism did not in fact require TIME TRAVEL TO CHANGE THE PAST to end Aparthied. Or in fact, even a fight. It did however require the United States of America sanctioning South Africa.

Netanyahu is meeting with Biden on Thursday. I expect a change in Israeli policy on or before that point.

Put a little pin in this, because being wrong about the last 40 times the US met with Netenyahu hasn't changed deaddm's mind that the US is trying as hard as possible, so it also won't change his mind when this one works exactly the same as the last 40 times the US met with him and said 'we support your genocide 100% and will continue to arm you'.

Nor do I expect any of them to grapple with the very real questions of maintaining security in the face of established ethnic hatred

This is more blatant "Palestinians deserve it" shit that doesn't at all deal with the reality, that his claims that all the evil Palestinians have ethnic hatred were factually incorrect, or criticisms of him for bothsidesing the issue that in fact one specific side is the one that does the murdering and the other side that does not get to "maintain security" against them ever.

I think that's a very one-sided description of events and is inconsistent with established historical evaluation of the conflict.

It's only an incomplete description of historical fact because it's way too kind to Israel, since as a matter of fact, Israel has conquered by actual wars of territorial conquest most of the land, not just doing settler colonialism, but literally just sending in the army to seize land and then ethnically cleanse it after seizure.

As far as whether or not the United States should continue providing them money or weapons and/or to what degree that depends on their willingness to stop their incursion into Gaza, immediately, it's not really as simple as just saying that's what we're going to do. It actually takes legal action.

This is again, deaddm lying in defense of the thing he supports but has no argument for, of arming Israel.

It does not take "legal action" to stop arming Israel. In fact, it takes "legal action" to keep arming Israel. Which is why Biden has used his ability to just do whatever he wants and fuck congress to arm Israel multiple times, and why the Biden admin approved more weapons to Israel literally the SAME DAY they bombed the aid convoy. Literally just NOT DOING ANYTHING would end the shipments to Israel, because the President has to sign off on every single arms sale or gift, including certifying that the recipient has not violated any human rights.

Actual existing US law requires Biden to commit active acts of lying to violate US law personally every time we arm Israel.

[PseudoStupidity]

Wait a minute, does DDM think the Hamas attack was on Oct 4th? I assumed he was referencing something else and just not providing a year instead of making a very silly mistake that becomes 1000x funnier because of his behavior in this thread. And when he wrote we should all move to the Philippines was he actually trying to refer to Kaelik's comment about how any Jewish person from the US (such as a Philadelphian) is allowed to go to Israel and just become a citizen with full rights?

Damn.

[Kaelik]

Wait a minute, does DDM think the Hamas attack was on Oct 4th? I assumed he was referencing something else and just not providing a year instead of making a very silly mistake that becomes 1000x funnier because of his behavior in this thread. And when he wrote we should all move to the Philippines was he actually trying to refer to Kaelik's comment about how any Jewish person from the US (such as a Philadelphian) is allowed to go to Israel and just become a citizen with full rights?

Damn.

I was actually thinking of a specific Jewish guy from Philadelphia who might, if he wasn't allowed to live in a white ethnostate, move back to the US (but not really because he would probably be in jail).

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Quick point. DeadDMs current position "Yes its a genocide, yes I will only use that term rarely and grudgingly but there I said it will you shut up now, Also no we cannot possibly do anything about it." is in the end another way to do what all of this, including his recent adoption of white nationalism and white replacement theory tattoo a swastika on his own forehead level racism was all in service of.

Genocide Joe apologia. Notice the step that is missing to get to even the beginning of a genuine acceptable position. "Joe has failed to..." or "Joe should immediately..." there is no and can be no negative judgement of poor old Joe because nothing can be done NOTHING!

Definitely not even the minimum one thing of not arming them everyone has been screaming in his face since before the beginning of this while he does the lalalal fingers in my ears routine.

[phlapjackage]

Here is 'it's complicated, it takes legal action', and the attitude it represents, in my opinion:

I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action";

[phlapjackage]

Netanyahu is meeting with Biden on Thursday. I expect a change in Israeli policy on or before that point.

Put a little pin in this, because being wrong about the last 40 times the US met with Netenyahu hasn't changed deaddm's mind that the US is trying as hard as possible, so it also won't change his mind when this one works exactly the same as the last 40 times the US met with him and said 'we support your genocide 100% and will continue to arm you'.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Joe Biden threatened on Thursday to condition support for Israel's offensive in Gaza on it taking concrete steps to protect aid workers and civilians, seeking for the first time to leverage U.S. aid to influence Israeli military behavior.

Maybe let's just wait for the 42nd meeting, I'm sure that one will be different...

[morgan13]

Maybe let's just wait for the 42nd meeting, I'm sure that one will be different...

Yeah sure, very different indeed, if you really belive that then I'm sorry..

[Kaelik]

Nancy Pelosi, who Joe Biden first met fundraising for Israel in the 70s, who once said that if Washington DC was destroyed the only thing that remained would be weapons for Israel, has called for Joe Biden to stop giving aid to Israel, a thing she apparently believes he can simply do.

Congrats Nancy Pelosi, for being to the left of deaddm.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Don't worry, just as the Biden administration think they have laid the rhetorical ground work to retroactively claim innocence (possibly even legally) and good intentions all along once they eventually switch policy (or the genocide burns out on its own).

So too does DeadDM think he has already said enough that when the Biden anointed flip day comes he can say he was actually in favor of a full on proper cease fire and all possible actions towards that from day 1.

He wasn't, he isn't and what he has laid is some very transparent and outright offensive pretexts not actual ground work to prove anything. But he will act like a few quotes of himself out of context prove his performative leftism and be outraged when it doesn't work.

[deaddmwalking]

No, I won't. I'm not particularly concerned about inaccurate descriotions of my policy preferences, and there is virtually nothing anyone on this site can do to cause me outrage.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

No, I won't.

Betting pool on how many posts until he does?

But to be clear, not only is your track record such that your denial now makes it MORE likely you will almost immediately do it your MO beyond that is clear. Once the official flip on the genocide occurs you HAVE to change your position to be in line with the establishment. It will cause you pain to be misaligned with the officially mandated "sensible center" and you will NEED to performatively correct.

You haven't just fallen for the democratic white house spin, your own personal morality is defined by it, is affirmed by it, needs it.

It's what shit libs do, what you are, what you constantly helplessly expose yourself to be.

[MGuy]

Outrage would require concern. Dead is not concerned about anything Biden does or doesn't do short of having the jackboots placed squarely on his neck. He's also not really bothered about what happens to people who aren't him. Given how terrible a person dead has locked himself into being I also don't think he considers himself a leftist. At best dead is probably a centrist (white moderate) who is always one NYT article away from repeating white nationalist rhetoric. What he represents is just how complacent these kinds of people are, publicly opting for deference to authority over even soft admonishment at its failures. He failed the 'don't do whataboutism' challenge in the midst of this genocide.

So, my guess is that he'll post like he always does. Always in a way that shows how enthusiastically he licks boot and how uncomfortable/unfathomable it is for people to actually want the government to do good things. Every so often he'll maybe say something to remind everyone that he is personally doing fine in this economy, that poor people should be happy with how poor they are (and are there even really a lot of poor people?), and randomly claim his wife said something idiotic. Even just now he's making some vague declaration that he's just being poorly understood without expressing any particular condemnation of the presidential administration that got us here. He also failed to not bothsides an ongoing genocide.

Even if he wanted to pretend he actually cares about the very brown people he's clearly scared of, he really wouldn't be able to get any vindication on this matter anyway because everyone but him has stated that Biden should've already leveraged whatever he 'might' eventually leverage to end the genocide. Any declaration at any time that Biden has done literally anything will of course be FAR later than it should of been and dead would have to be an even bigger idiot to declare vindication over a president that has acted in concert with a genocidal apartheid state for this long.

It'll be something of a relief to see the world finally move on this issue. A great one if a serious attempt at restoration of Gaza and West Bank follows. Nothing can bring back any of the lives lost at this point. Dead can be a cautionary tale, an example, about just how empty someone who has decided to be moderate in all things, up to and including an ongoing genocide, is. The upside here is that even people like 'that' can be easily seen for what they are where before now they could easily obfuscate the conflict indefinitely without being called on it. I don't think Israel can recover the goodwill that they lost and hopefully that continues to be the case long enough to see justice done or at least enough to see a major turn around to the condition of their victims.

[Thaluikhain]

Given how terrible a person dead has locked himself into being I also don't think he considers himself a leftist.

Without meaning to derail things, I'd not be so sure. There's lefties cheering on Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and condemning any resistance to it.

[MGuy]

I don't know of anyone, especially any notable leftists, who think it is good that Russia invaded Ukraine and I wouldn't understand why someone (especially as leftist), who should be against a country doing an imperialism, would be in favor of it. That aside I'm very sure about this because over the years dead has taken so many positions that would disqualify him.

He doesn't think that poverty is that big of a deal and by his metric if it is nothing can be done about it.
He thinks other kinds of people voting (likely young people but definitely not him) would be required to vote in politicians that want to do good things. He is ok continuing to vote for ones who don't.
He thinks that while the state of medical care 'has problems', actually doing anything about it would be too troublesome and sounds like communism. Which he is scared of.
He thinks that brown people are coming to take over this country's culture and therefore we should get rid of the evil brown illegals.
He constantly downplays every issue he decides to weigh in on.

Right now he's bothsidesing a genocide because he thinks the victims of the genocide are dangerous. I could go on and on and on and on. Me calling him a centrist/moderate is me being charitable considering how easily he slipped into picking up Trump voter talking points from 8 years ago.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Something like 95% chance he thinks of himself as sensible "left of center" and that the far left and far right have been seducing too many away from the sensible center left and its good friend the sensible centrist right. If not that he definitely thinks of himself as only slightly right of center.

It lets him not be really left, while still stealing all the glory he wants from it in between condemning it whenever it wants actual stuff.

And then when he has a wildly right wing opinion like wanting to torture and murder refugees as a perceived populist political move, he can just pretend that is a bit of his adoption of just a little teeny bit of sensible centrist right, because anything he wants from the far right will actually be sensible and centrist and very normal thank you. Then when he wants to condemn the right, it will be far right Trumpists threatening democracy itself and making your vote for Biden compulsory no matter how many Genocides he personally commits between now and then.

This is what the extremist centrist is like. And they ALWAYS either brand themselves as center slightly left or center slightly right, usually depending on the community they are trying to personally appeal to. But also just as part of their attempt to reduce all of politics to a simple right to left sliding scale and their place beside its glorious central throne.

[phlapjackage]

sensible center left and its good friend the sensible centrist right.

I heard something recently that I thought made a lot of sense, in that many centrists will say they are socially liberal but fiscally conservative. But this position isn't realistic, in that progressive social policy needs funding, without funding it's just something on somebody's wish list. So if you are truly "socially liberal", you need to also be fiscally liberal to allow the social liberalism you claim to support to be achieved.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

socially liberal but fiscally conservative

Heard this one a million times, and yeah its a wildly unrealistic and stupid position to take but people love it.

They love it because they are rubes and have fallen for everyone's propaganda. They think taking a middle ground makes them sensible, it does not. They think that is the middle ground, which it is not. They think conservative fiscal policies are conservative rather than actually liberal and radical, which they are. They think the liberal is the same as the left is the same as liberal social policies, which it isn't.

And yeah sure eventually the funding thing, but it all falls apart long before that. You cannot have that political position without being such a brain rotted idiot that your entire concept of politics and economics is utterly incoherent. Hell you cannot even have that political position because of how incoherent it is, you can only CLAIM to have it.

And yet it is a relentlessly popular political to (claim to) have. Because it lets them rub themselves all over in what they perceive to be all the glory of what they perceive to be the only two sides of the simple one dimensional scale of the political spectrum without ever having to DO anything.

Oh looky I'm all, ugh yeah, responsible with money like the, ugh baby, the right is like yeah, and mmmugh ugh yeah I'm all hip and with it and friendly to them, ugh mmm, gays like the lefty kids are yeah?, yeah mmm right I'm so fckn sexy...

[Kaelik]

Look I just believe that all people are created equal and should have equal rights and also that we shouldn't implement any policies that help black people and hurt millionaires who inherited plantation wealth because it would be UNFAIR to privledge one group over the other!

[Kaelik]

A unicef aid convoy to Gaza on a un route coordinated with Israel was fired on by Israeli forces while waiting at a designated holding point for the convoy.

It's almost like biden having a talk were he promised infinite more weapons but said to stop using them on aid workers in a mean tone of voice has not in fact changed Israel's mind.

[PseudoStupidity]

They'd better watch out, Biden might drop an F bomb next time he calls. While also delivering several thousand real bombs so they can continue their genocide unabated.

[Kaelik]

Joe Biden admin literally just pressuring countries in the UN to vote against Palestinian statehood.

Because it turns out, wow, America is not committed to a two state solution! Who could have guessed!

[Kaelik]

The Biden admin is now signing off with Israel's total genocide invasion of Raffa that they said they weren't okay with over and over.

See what happened is Biden said "You are allowed to attack every other country in the world with missiles, but you aren't allowed to invade Raffa" and then Israel attacked Iran assassinating several generals at a consular building, and then Israel said to Joe Biden "Either we nuke Iran and you have to join us, or we invade Raffa" and then Joe Biden decided he loves genociding Palestinians.

So just to be clear, the US's constitent position that Israel can do whatever it wants except the worst possible thing they want to do has resulted in Israel responding EXACTLY like how the GOP responds when Democrats say they support every single GOP policy except the worst possible one.

They simply invent a new worse thing and then do whatever they want forever.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

I had words. But really at this point speculating on who and how Israel is going to warcrime next and then again after that is basically like trying to guess Roberto the Robot's next shivving targets.

They have gone full fanatic fascist genocidal rogue state in a truly psychotic way, and I sure as hell hope the USA really does have backup plan to capture or destroy Israeli nuclear capability because at this point it is pretty much only a matter of time before they launch the nuclear robot shivs on SOMEONE (possibly even themselves).

[MGuy]

Rest assured citizens the next time Israel does a horrific thing there are plenty of waiting leaks that'll assure everyone that Biden is very disappointed in that rascally apartheid state we keep giving weapons/cover/defense to.