What is the least bad version of the "Storyteller System"?

[WalkTheDinosaur]

White Wolf never settled on one canonical set of core mechanics and everyone plays by house rules that they may or may not know are house rules, but which of the 50 or so different versions gets the closest to being good?

I know opinions are going to differ on this, but my personal criteria:

• • Having more dice on a roll is always better (except for explicitly intended one-offs like werewolves frenzying if they roll too well on a Rage roll)
  • Well defined action economy - if someone asks "can I change my action right now" or "who acts last if we both want to act last" or "can I split my action to Dominate the same guy twice" there's a single provably correct answer
  • No linear chargen / quadratic XP shit
  • Passive defenses that actually stop attacks a significant percentage of the time
  • Rough balance between core character concepts - think Country Gangrel in a fight with any other physical or mind control character for an example of what not to do
  • Consistent expectations for power level and size of die pools
  • No mechanics that obviously break the lore or setting assumptions (i.e. vampires can function around light sources and other vampires)
  • Clear delineation between stats and/or skills - you can usually know your dice pools for tasks without waiting for your GM to free-associate about what "Wits" means
  • Magic system is not based on a collectible card game tie-in where you draw random rituals your character may or may not actually be able to perform, that also instantly goes out of print because no FLGS owner in their right mind would re-order it, seriously everyone seems to have forgotten about this but it was a thing
  • Minimally intrusive morality mechanics

Of the versions of White Wolf I actually know, I think 90s Trinity comes the closest, but I may have just forgotten how it worked in the time between now and the Clinton administration. Fuck I'm old. What would your recommendations be for the best version of the ST system?

[Foxwarrior]

After Sundown?

[Prak]

The least bad version of Storyteller?

It's V5. They're working on other lines.

[Whipstitch]

oWoD MET rules.

It's shit, but it's short shit, you don't need props and your character sheet is smol. Such features handily crush V5 virtually by default.

[Prak]

Yeah, but then you have to deal with WOD LARPers.

I suppose the answer to the question really depends on what someone is looking for.

[Whipstitch]

I would unironically suggest you could sit at a table with the MET rules and do pretty OK. Either way you're not really playing Vampire with normies in 2021.

[saithorthepyro]

The real answer is Shadowrun. JK

I do think VTM might start picking up Normies again. Despite the terrible handling of the tabletop side by the people they hired, VTM Bloodlines 2 will cause a boom. Yes it’s delayed, yes it’s looking like there’s massive behind the scenes drama, but regardless of that a AAA VtM game or even AA will attract some mainstream attention back to the RPG...and probably why VTM 5e face planted.

[Anon_issue]

No linear chargen / quadratic XP shit

As far as I know, all White Wolf games had this problem. It's easy to houserule away (just make the XP multiplier into a flat cost per dot) but for some games/subsystems the non-linear cost thing is actually necessary for balance. Like in any version of Mage having 1 arcana at 5 dots is way better than having 5 arcana at 1 dots.

Passive defenses that actually stop attacks a significant percentage of the time

Not sure what you mean. Body armor? Dodging? Disciplines?

Clear delineation between stats and/or skills - you can usually know your dice pools for tasks without waiting for your GM to free-associate about what "Wits" means

NWOD was actually pretty good about this. There was a fixed skill list, everything was segregated into Physical/Mental/Social, and there were a lot of examples where they just tell you what to roll for seducing someone or wilderness survival or whatever.

Despite the terrible handling of the tabletop side by the people they hired, VTM Bloodlines 2 will cause a boom.

I completely doubt that. With every update VTMB2 is looking more like Duke Nukem Forever or Aliens: Colonial Marines.

[Prak]

V5 is the 5th edition of Vampire in more than just the literal numeric sense. Just like D&D 5e, V5 may not be the paragon of mechanical solidity that we search for and try to create like it's the Fountain of Youth or the Tower of Babal around here, but it's incredibly popular, it's revitalizing interest in the game line after the previous edition tripped on its dick down a hallway of more dicks, and a lot of that is in re-examining what people want, and catering to a more casual player while also creating a massive online social media presence with charismatic people who reflect what the players look like making regular videos about it.

End of the day, an airtight system that works flawlessly is nowhere near as important as how shiny you can make a ball of mud and how well you can sell that shiny dirtclod.

But as for the actual question- I still think that V5 is a huge mechanical improvement over older WoD editions. If you want to take the tack that "less rules and a shorter sheet" makes something superior to V5, then... ok, the best version of WoD is tossing the rulebooks and just writing fanfic with your friends.

[themadimp]

The Street Fighter RPG put out by White Wolf using an extremely hacked version of the Storyteller system.

[WalkTheDin0saur]

As far as I know, all White Wolf games had this problem. It's easy to houserule away (just make the XP multiplier into a flat cost per dot) but for some games/subsystems the non-linear cost thing is actually necessary for balance. Like in any version of Mage having 1 arcana at 5 dots is way better than having 5 arcana at 1 dots.

Same shit with vampire disciplines and everything like them, honestly. There are plenty where the low level powers are filler you'll never use and the high levels kick ass. I think the craziest example was from Changeling: the Nambling -

Primal

•	Speak with Plants
••	Flame Blade
•••	Barkskin
••••	Cure Moderate Wounds
•••••	Polymorph Any Object

You could have dots 1-3 cost n points and dots 4-5 cost 2n. Do that for both chargen and XP, and give a few more attribute points and freebies to compensate. That relative costs work out about the same and it mostly keeps players from having to calculate geometric costs during chargen. You can't go above 3 skill dots before freebies anyway and most of the game lines won't give you enough discipline / power points to go above 3 either.