Why are kobolds?

[Prak]

So, I'm playing a kobold in a 5e game right now and it's making me want to do more kobold worldbuilding (which I get to do, because my GM doesn't have any particular druthers about kobolds)

But.... well, kobolds are weird. It's hard to worldbuild them, for a lot of reasons. Right now, I'm trying to figure out what kind of food they like, mostly so my kobold character can break out a line along the lines of "I want anyone who sold him pierogi shot!" Except with pierogi replaced by a "stereotypical kobold food."

Which is a whole mess of complications.

What I've got so far is going with the idea that Kurtulmak made kobolds from a lost egg of tiamat to help him find more lost eggs of tiamat. They are, we'll say genetically derived from dragons? But have no wings (usually), with the limbs that would be wings reduced to shoulder spikes like some snakes have pelvic spars that are the remnants of legs that they evolved away. They are naturally neuters, having no sex organs, and use lost eggs of tiamat (ie, magic gems) to make alchemical elixirs to grow reproductive organs so they can actually, well, reproduce. Because they have no natural sex, their genders are completely unrelated to sex, and instead based on expressed dragon ancestry and the elements thereof (so, Fire gender, Acid gender, etc).

So, kobolds are reptilian, because they're dragon people. But then you have the fact that dragons literally cannot be reptiles, however much they resemble them, because reptile is a class within the superclass tetrapoda. And dragons, at least traditional "true" dragons, have more than four limbs. So... kobolds can't be reptiles. But at the same time, reptiles are a good place to start.

Yes, I'm super complicating this.

Anyway, why are kobolds? How are kobolds? What have y'all done to worldbuild kobolds? And if anyone has reptile pets, what kind of foods do they particularly enjoy? Because when I try to google that, I get either "what do reptiles taste like" or "what do reptiles eat"

[Thaluikhain]

Because they have no natural sex, their genders are completely unrelated to sex, and instead based on expressed dragon ancestry and the elements thereof (so, Fire gender, Acid gender, etc).

Why are they genders, rather than something else?

Also, aren't those kobolds more or less Draconians from Dragonlance?

Personally, never saw the point of kobolds, they are just goblins with less PR.

[Prak]

They have the same social role/utility as genders. I mean, I'm nonbinary, my gender has more to do with ravens, demons, witchcraft and liminality than sex, so, that's informing my view on gender. Also the fact that the binary male/female genders of modern western humans have nothing to do with sex, and more assumptions based on gross physiology. The element genders of my kobolds are based on the gross physiology of a kobold who expresses the build, horns and coloration of a red dragon or black dragon.

I don't know anything about draconians, because the only dragonlance book I read was a standalone about actual dragon characters.

[Thaluikhain]

They have the same social role/utility as genders. I mean, I'm nonbinary, my gender has more to do with ravens, demons, witchcraft and liminality than sex, so, that's informing my view on gender. Also the fact that the binary male/female genders of modern western humans have nothing to do with sex, and more assumptions based on gross physiology. The element genders of my kobolds are based on the gross physiology of a kobold who expresses the build, horns and coloration of a red dragon or black dragon.

Ah, ok.

I don't know anything about draconians, because the only dragonlance book I read was a standalone about actual dragon characters.

Well, in Dragonlance, it's revealed during book 3 or something that:

the good dragon eggs stolen and being held as hostages by the evil dragons et al were used to create lizard people called draconians, and the colour of the egg they come from determines what magic abilities the draconians come with

Also, if you've not read Dragonlance, you're missing out on kender, gully dwarves and tinker gnomes. Not saying you are missing out on good things, there, though.

[Harshax]

Just riffing on what you’ve got so far…

Maybe I don’t understand the magic gem lore. But, If they used lost eggs of Tiamat to reproduce, wouldn’t kobolds then be reviled by the chromatic dragons for perverting the noblest of evil dragon offspring because these eggs might have produced a great green or red or black dragon instead of a filthy stunted kobold? That would seem to run against the grain that kobolds often appear to worship/serve a chromatic?

Wouldn’t lost magic gems also imply both that kobolds have an incredibly low birth rate and the leaders of kobold bands are the most successful and propagating the species? eg: Be of decent level/power to continue to discover and wrench Tiamat eggs from their hiding places?

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Kobolds are one of two things. Sometimes both.

1. Degenerate dragonlings that are meant to be laughed at and killed en masse by low-level characters
2. Genetic slaves to their dragon overlords.

I dunno what all this weird reptile and gender shit has to do with any of this. They're mooks. An entire race of mooks. Write them accordingly.
Personally, I prefer the idea of Kurtulmak being a kobold that was granted or stole divinity rather than being the progenitor of the kobold race. Kobolds should be made by dragons, and be their bitches forever.
Don't even bring up weird dog-men, either.

[Foxwarrior]

I can imagine a dragon in Prak's world quoting Adventurer's Almanac almost word-for-word so easily.

[Harshax]

Not scoffing Prak’s attempts to do something different …

I’d much rather Kurtulmak being a divine afterbirth or degenerate egg twin of one of Tiamat’s offsprings which would explain why kobolds are always hanging out with dragons … they use the [insert biological term] waste of the egg innards to create fertility potions or rituals or birthing beds or nests or whatever.

EDIT: Or, what if Kurtulmak is the original degenerate egg-mate of Tiamat herself?

NOTE: I don’t know enough about any egg laying animal to know if egg twins can happen.

EDIT2: Just read the Forgotten Realms wiki. Seems the magic gems were actually stuff Garl Glittergold used to make gnomes?

[Prak]

I don't know anything about draconians, because the only dragonlance book I read was a standalone about actual dragon characters.

Well, in Dragonlance, it's revealed during book 3 or something that:

the good dragon eggs stolen and being held as hostages by the evil dragons et al were used to create lizard people called draconians, and the colour of the egg they come from determines what magic abilities the draconians come with

Also, if you've not read Dragonlance, you're missing out on kender, gully dwarves and tinker gnomes. Not saying you are missing out on good things, there, though.

Sounds like someone writing for Dragon, I think? Stole from Dragonlance, then. I think it was the ecology of kobolds article that I picked up the idea that Tiamat made Kurtulmak to find her lost eggs, then K-mak used one of the eggs to make kobolds to help him.

Just riffing on what you’ve got so far…

Maybe I don’t understand the magic gem lore. But, If they used lost eggs of Tiamat to reproduce, wouldn’t kobolds then be reviled by the chromatic dragons for perverting the noblest of evil dragon offspring because these eggs might have produced a great green or red or black dragon instead of a filthy stunted kobold? That would seem to run against the grain that kobolds often appear to worship/serve a chromatic?

Wouldn’t lost magic gems also imply both that kobolds have an incredibly low birth rate and the leaders of kobold bands are the most successful and propagating the species? eg: Be of decent level/power to continue to discover and wrench Tiamat eggs from their hiding places?

I'm just using what I read in the abovementioned maybe-Dragon article and extending it. I also kind of leave it ambiguous as to whether the "lost eggs of Tiamat" are genuine god eggs, or just magic gems called that. As to reproduction, yes, some kobold warrens would reserve the right to reproduce for only the powerful, but I also figure a lot would spread give the right to those who find a given egg, or reduce the risk and reduction of fighting ability incumbent with gravidness to any one member by spreading it around, so that you don't have the most powerful member of the warren taken out of commission by gestating and laying an entire generation's worth of eggs. So, yeah, some warrens have high powered harems and other warrens have periodic mass orgies.

Kobolds are one of two things. Sometimes both.

1. Degenerate dragonlings that are meant to be laughed at and killed en masse by low-level characters
2. Genetic slaves to their dragon overlords.

I dunno what all this weird reptile and gender shit has to do with any of this. They're mooks. An entire race of mooks. Write them accordingly.
Personally, I prefer the idea of Kurtulmak being a kobold that was granted or stole divinity rather than being the progenitor of the kobold race. Kobolds should be made by dragons, and be their bitches forever.

Personally, I prefer not perpetuating imperialistic slaughter-fodder tropes with a heavy basis in racism, and would rather write and play awesome miniature dragon-people. Also, I'm queer and I'm writing it. You want boring binary genders in your genetically inferior slave race, that's on you, but my kobolds are at least as queer as I am, which is to say very, and would sooner castrate a would-be overlord than grovel.


On the Garl Glittergold thing- well, shit. Might have to go dig up that Dragon magazine article and double check that I'm remembering right (and also it's possible that that's the joke)

[deaddmwalking]

Abiogenensis (the creation of life from non-living things) was a medieval belief that might be helpful. The general idea was that if you had a swamp with a bunch of floating logs of course some of them would turn into alligators. If you had a piece of meat sitting into the room, of course it would spontaneously turn into maggots and a swarm of flies.

Turns out, it doesn't work like that in our world, but it took some pretty modern methods to be sure - it wasn't really disproved until the 17th century and definitively proven false in the 19th.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with a belief that gathering enough gold/jewels will spontaneously create a creature of greed - a dragon. Dragons are born naturally from amassing too much treasure in one place. Similarly, kobolds that gather the appropriate gem can generate new kobolds - whether there is transfer of genetic material or not can be up to you - but it'd be interesting to me if kobolds get their color from the gem, but are otherwise clones. So a strong 'red' kobold that gets an emerald, will probably hatch a strong 'green' kobold after the appropriate amount of time.

As far as society, kobolds enjoy eating small mammals and birds. Cats may very well be their favorite food - not only do cats eat the mice and rats that kobolds enjoy, they're large and delicious relative to most of their fare. Kobolds can base their personality on A.L.F.

From a society/culture perspective, kobolds are born with the raw materials required to survive - scales, claws, teeth - they don't NEED to work metal but they're associated with mining. They're gem minors because gems are required for their reproduction. Finding a few thousand carats of emeralds can be their next generation. They dig mines, they dig traps, and they abide.

[Harshax]

@Prak

Not the original article but the magic gem thing is mentioned here:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kurtulmak

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I can imagine a dragon in Prak's world quoting Adventurer's Almanac almost word-for-word so easily.

IT IS THE PLACE OF THE LESSERS TO SERVE THEIR GREATERS.
On a slightly more serious note, I find the 'genetic slavery' aspect of kobolds to be their most interesting and defining feature next to their relationship with dragons. There are plenty of races out there that have thrown off the yoke of their oppressors and plenty of them that go along with it, but few of them have the zealotry or insignificance of the kobold. When I play kobolds, their general attitude isn't "I'm a slave to a dragon!", it's "I'm a slave to a dragon!" Like they're fucking pleased as punch to help out something so awesome and everyone else is too unfortunate to be able to clean a dragon's toilet.
It's a very strange mindset to explore. Not to mention you can explore how the dragon feels about the relationship, too. An evil one just wants stuff for its horde and probably eats kobolds that displease it, but does a good one feel responsible for the welfare of its kobolds?

[angelfromanotherpin]

My favorite take was an expansion on the alternate origin story from Dragon 332's Ecology of the Kobold. In that version, Tiamat forces one of her eggs to hatch early, producing her firstborn, Kurtulmak, whom she tasks with the protection of her other eggs. Kurtulmak isn't fully-formed when he's force-born, but he makes up for it with cunning, including making the kobolds in his own image to help him.

So 'why kobolds' is that they were made to be a stopgap to protect dragon eggs and lairs, which is why they have a racial bonus to mining and trapmaking. They might not be very strong, but dad-god told them to look after their younger cousins, and they're going to put their whole hearts into it. If you find a kobold settlement without an associated dragon, they'll have rationalized it as decoying attention from an actual lair, or just practicing until they find some eggies to take under their lack-of-wing. Many dragons don't particularly need or want their help, but its very hard to dislike someone who will die to protect your babies.

[Prak]

Yeah, that's the issue I grabbed the origin of kobolds to expand from, here's the relevant part of the posited story, which, looking at that FR wiki page, it's definitely an adaptation of-




I like the idea that kobolds are incredibly genetically malleable, and so while primarily this manifests as them needing to use gem-based alchemy to grow dicks and vags, it also means they can make alchemical concoctions with samples of birds that let them grow some decorative feathers, or a cobra sample to grow a hood, shit like that. Or other samples, but I see reptile/bird stuff as being easier for them to do.

[Emerald]

Because they have no natural sex, their genders are completely unrelated to sex, and instead based on expressed dragon ancestry and the elements thereof (so, Fire gender, Acid gender, etc).

I think this would definitely be interesting to focus on. If the genders here are more related to the dragon colors, you have a situation where there's an obvious hierarchy of red > blue > green > black > white in terms of the power levels of the actual chromatic dragons, and exploring whether kobold social roles shake out the same way or they reject color-based predetermination or whatever would be interesting. If the genders are more related to the breath weapon elements, you have a situation where the black- and green-descended kobolds share an element, and exploring how that works out (Are acid kobolds twice as common as fire, cold, and lightning ones? Do black and green kobolds view themselves as superior to the other ones or have more of a solidarity with each other?) would be interesting as well.

So, kobolds are reptilian, because they're dragon people. But then you have the fact that dragons literally cannot be reptiles, however much they resemble them, because reptile is a class within the superclass tetrapoda. And dragons, at least traditional "true" dragons, have more than four limbs. So... kobolds can't be reptiles. But at the same time, reptiles are a good place to start.

Well, there are two things to note about applying modern taxonomy to kobolds. One is that kobolds can colloquially be reptiles without being of class Reptilia, in the same way that flies are colloquially bugs but are not true bugs, so treating them exactly like reptiles for all intents and purposes and ignoring the number-of-limbs issue is fine. The other is that on Earth all reptiles are technically tetrapods but e.g. snakes don't have any limbs and only count as tetrapods because they used to have four limbs, so you could always well-actually dragons into being "tetrapods" by way of evolving from wyverns and having their wings and forelimbs technically count as the same limbs.

Anyway, why are kobolds? How are kobolds? What have y'all done to worldbuild kobolds? And if anyone has reptile pets, what kind of foods do they particularly enjoy? Because when I try to google that, I get either "what do reptiles taste like" or "what do reptiles eat"

I have no idea what reptiles actually like food-wise, but you could perhaps posit that kobold metabolisms at least weakly relate to their associated elements to give them a nice twist and figure out food tastes that way.

For instance, red kobolds have fast and hot metabolisms and favor very sugary and fatty foods, and lots of it, and the inability of the average kobold to get those things in great quantities might tend to prompt red kobolds to be the more outgoing merchant-y gender to get access to that delicious delicious food. White kobolds have slow and cold metabolisms and don't need to eat as much as the others, so they're fairly picky and strongly prioritize flavor over sustenance. Green and black kobolds have acidic saliva and very strong stomach acids and so favor fairly gamey meat, and they hate most fruits and vegetables because it results in a mixing-toothpaste-with-orange-juice kind of situation. Blue kobolds like bitter and metallic-tasting food, so they like their iron-heavy steaks somewhere between a red kobold's fatty cut and a black or green kobold's lean cut, and if any kobold is going to down a few cups of coffee before going off to trap the warren, it's a blue.

[Thaluikhain]

If the genders here are more related to the dragon colors, you have a situation where there's an obvious hierarchy of red > blue > green > black > white in terms of the power levels of the actual chromatic dragons

Bit off-topic, but while white dragons are obviously worse (no love for poor white dragons), black are second worse? I thought they were up there with red, with green and blue being a close second and white way behind. Though, may be out of date, if not totally wrong on this.

[Prak]

Because they have no natural sex, their genders are completely unrelated to sex, and instead based on expressed dragon ancestry and the elements thereof (so, Fire gender, Acid gender, etc).

I think this would definitely be interesting to focus on. If the genders here are more related to the dragon colors, you have a situation where there's an obvious hierarchy of red > blue > green > black > white in terms of the power levels of the actual chromatic dragons, and exploring whether kobold social roles shake out the same way or they reject color-based predetermination or whatever would be interesting. If the genders are more related to the breath weapon elements, you have a situation where the black- and green-descended kobolds share an element, and exploring how that works out (Are acid kobolds twice as common as fire, cold, and lightning ones? Do black and green kobolds view themselves as superior to the other ones or have more of a solidarity with each other?) would be interesting as well.

I haven't really thought about or explored that much, partially because my current character is the first kobold I've played since I had the idea, but when I wrote it, I did definitely have some sense that some genders would be rarer than others. Looking at just chromatic and metallic dragons, Fire and Acid genders would be the most common, with three major dragons each, then Electricity and Cold, with two, and I included a Sonic-gender, just because it's the fifth energy type, but of the five main genders, it would be the rarest, with no chromatic or metallic dragons tied to it (I keep thinking song dragons have a sonic breath weapon, but checking just now, they have an electric). I talked about traits, both physical and mental, associated with each common gender, but didn't get into social attitudes beyond simple social roles, like acid-gender kobolds are expected to be tactically minded, even if that tactic is "blow them a new asshole and let's move on," and electricity-gender kobolds are expected to deal with riddles and enigmas. If anyone's interested, here's what I wrote up about kobold gender-

Kobold Genders

Uvelu- Uvelu is the gender tied to acid. Uvelu kobolds tend to be gaunt and thin, storing fat in flaps of skin that hang from their extremities. They commonly have long frills, singly or in pairs down their back, and horns that either sweep back framing their forehead or extend out of the temples and arc forward. They are frequently acerbic, and approach life with a “through is quicker” philosophy, preferring to take the quickest, easiest method to dealing with their problems, regardless of how destructive it might be. Uveluc are commonly expected to be tactical thinkers, and a great many kobold raidmongers were uveluc. Their scales are frequently black, green, copper, or a mottled patina of all three.
Uv/Uvem/Uver

Xarzi- Xarzi kobolds are tied to cold and ice. They are usually stocky and thick, covered in dense muscle under an eternal layer of fat stored evenly over their bodies. Xarzi have some of the shortest frills of kobolds, seldom taller than a few inches and almost always running only the length of the back of their skull. If they have horns at all, they protrude directly back from their heads behind the ears. They are quiet loomers, preferring to stay unseen and take in the whole situation before acting or speaking. The sappers, trappers and snipers of kobold history are frequently xarzin. Xarzi scales are usually white or silver, but they also commonly have pearlescent scales of white with a silvery gleam.
Xa/Xar/Xarm

Aluji- Aluji, or lightning gender, kobolds tend to be thickly muscled in the chest and neck, with thin abdomens and legs but powerful tails, which is also where most fat is stored. They often have almost no frill, and very short horns, either singular spikes on their snouts or a pair of short horns atop their heads between brow and ears. They tend towards absolutism, either being mercilessly tyrannical, or intolerant of anything with even a whiff of injustice. Alujin kobolds are frequently expected to be oracles, diviners, and riddlemongers, putting their minds to the greatest puzzles their tribes uncover. Alujin have scales of blue, bronze, or a mixture of the two.
Al/Aluj/Aljem

Ixa- Ixa could also be called fire-gender. Ixa kobolds tend to be willowy and wiry, storing fat mainly in frills and their tails. They usually have impressive crests, pairs of long horns emerging from the tops of their heads or broad plates from the sides. The most notable trait of ixa kobolds is their jaw and chin spikes and whiskers. They can be quick to anger, but also charismatic. Some of the most renowned sorcerers of kobold history were ixan. Their scales are commonly red, gold, brass, or a mixture of the three.
Ix/Ixes/Ixem

Miiri- The rarest of the elemental genders, miirin kobolds are tied to sonic energy. Miirin kobolds often have horns and spikes like crystal growths, and scales of deep emerald, sapphire, or a glassy black with inner orange glow, being linked to emerald, sapphire and pyroclastic dragons. They are known most for their singing voices, but also for their secrecy and isolationism.
Mii/Mir/Miirs

Other Genders- Kobolds are innately tied to dragon kind, but not all dragons have an elemental breath weapon, or any breath weapon at all. As well, kobolds can easily alter their gender presentation through the use of alchemical elixirs. The above genders are simply the most common, but there are kobolds who resemble planar dragons, faerie dragons, dragons known for their light or force breath weapons, and even mixtures of genders. These kobolds are essentially the equivalent of nonbinary humans, and frequently choose their own pronouns. The most common, however, is Te/Ter/Teim

My character is Uvelu, in Kobold society, anyway (she has adopted she/her pronouns when dealing with non-kobolds who have human binary genders), both because I just like black dragons, and because the uvelu mindset is how I tend to play my characters anyway.

So, kobolds are reptilian, because they're dragon people. But then you have the fact that dragons literally cannot be reptiles, however much they resemble them, because reptile is a class within the superclass tetrapoda. And dragons, at least traditional "true" dragons, have more than four limbs. So... kobolds can't be reptiles. But at the same time, reptiles are a good place to start.

Well, there are two things to note about applying modern taxonomy to kobolds. One is that kobolds can colloquially be reptiles without being of class Reptilia, in the same way that flies are colloquially bugs but are not true bugs, so treating them exactly like reptiles for all intents and purposes and ignoring the number-of-limbs issue is fine. The other is that on Earth all reptiles are technically tetrapods but e.g. snakes don't have any limbs and only count as tetrapods because they used to have four limbs, so you could always well-actually dragons into being "tetrapods" by way of evolving from wyverns and having their wings and forelimbs technically count as the same limbs.

I think it's sort of a case of me getting hung up on trivial shit, which I do a lot. I do like the idea that dragons are not "actual-reptilia-reptiles-as-we-know-it" because I like having the freedom of not having to adhere to real world taxonomy with dragons and dragon-adjacent stuff (do dragonborn have tits? Well, if you want dragons to be taxonomically reptiles, they shouldn't, but if you care about taxonomy, then you can see that dragons can't be reptiles as we know them, and you can do whatever you want with dragonborn tits). Which I guess in this case I should give myself license to not care about the fact that real reptiles can't taste spice, and so kobolds can still really like spicy food as I previously decided before learning that fact about real reptiles.

Anyway, why are kobolds? How are kobolds? What have y'all done to worldbuild kobolds? And if anyone has reptile pets, what kind of foods do they particularly enjoy? Because when I try to google that, I get either "what do reptiles taste like" or "what do reptiles eat"

I have no idea what reptiles actually like food-wise, but you could perhaps posit that kobold metabolisms at least weakly relate to their associated elements to give them a nice twist and figure out food tastes that way.

For instance, red kobolds have fast and hot metabolisms and favor very sugary and fatty foods, and lots of it, and the inability of the average kobold to get those things in great quantities might tend to prompt red kobolds to be the more outgoing merchant-y gender to get access to that delicious delicious food. White kobolds have slow and cold metabolisms and don't need to eat as much as the others, so they're fairly picky and strongly prioritize flavor over sustenance. Green and black kobolds have acidic saliva and very strong stomach acids and so favor fairly gamey meat, and they hate most fruits and vegetables because it results in a mixing-toothpaste-with-orange-juice kind of situation. Blue kobolds like bitter and metallic-tasting food, so they like their iron-heavy steaks somewhere between a red kobold's fatty cut and a black or green kobold's lean cut, and if any kobold is going to down a few cups of coffee before going off to trap the warren, it's a blue.

Wouldn't acidic saliva mean they hate mint, for the toothpaste and orange juice effect, since citrus fruits are acidic?

I do like the idea that kobolds favor spicy food, just because it makes so much ...conceptual? sense, even if real reptiles can't taste capsaicin. So kobold food is probably very mexican and asian in flavor profile, especially since, I think, generally those two cuisines fit into the above posited flavor-preferences so well in addition to their heavy spice. (Ha. This means that chicken tikka masala would actually be a natural outgrowth of a culture that likes curries in D&D, because it combines curry with more fat). And I guess that sort of gives me an answer to the question that prompted this thread, kobolds have a cuisine, when they're at liberty to explore food as a thing beyond sustenance, that sort of combines asian and mexican culinary concepts, while also having a lot of dishes that are tweaked to the general preferences of different kobold genders- sweet and sours and tikki masala for fire-gender kobolds, moles for electricity-gender kobolds, and high-spice szechuan-style dishes for acid-gender kobolds.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I like the idea that kobolds are incredibly genetically malleable, and so while primarily this manifests as them needing to use gem-based alchemy to grow dicks and vags, it also means they can make alchemical concoctions with samples of birds that let them grow some decorative feathers, or a cobra sample to grow a hood, shit like that. Or other samples, but I see reptile/bird stuff as being easier for them to do.

Oh, that's a good one, I like it. Don't goblins have an association with alchemy, or is that a Pathfinder thing?

And I guess that sort of gives me an answer to the question that prompted this thread, kobolds have a cuisine, when they're at liberty to explore food as a thing beyond sustenance, that sort of combines asian and mexican culinary concepts, while also having a lot of dishes that are tweaked to the general preferences of different kobold genders- sweet and sours and tikki masala for fire-gender kobolds, moles for electricity-gender kobolds, and high-spice szechuan-style dishes for acid-gender kobolds.

This part reminds me of the time I went, "Dude, what if D&D alignments were elements instead of good and evil, maaaan?" A fun little topic for another time.

[Harshax]

We’re you guys also suggesting that some kobolds are metallic offshoots, in the same way that some drow worship that good moon god in Forgotten Realms?

I do like where this thread is going.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Why wouldn't they be? Is that not a thing?

[Prak]

To the best of my knowledge there's a vague implication that kobolds are primarily tied to chromatic dragons, but I don't really see any particular reason they couldn't have ties to all dragons in general.

[Harshax]

Well they’re tied to chromatic because of the lore, they’re evil and meant to be murdered.

But since your design goal is to remove the last two bits, I can imagine a kobold, desperate to keep the tribe prosperous, coming upon a metallic’s lair and stealing one of its eggs. The results being a metallic kobold, who rises to a position of power and over the course of a few generations transforms the tribe. Now you have kobolds of all types and all alignments. They might be the first kobolds welcomed into “civilized society”.

[Harshax]

I just noticed Prak’s spoiler text where the metallic variants are listed among chromatic in the types of kobolds. Very interesting.

[Sir Neil]

In the same vein as goblin->hobgoblin->bugbear, I have them pokevolve from kobold->lizardman->troll. (Trolls look like random plant monsters in 3e, but lizards can regenerate, so my trolls got reskinned as lizards and now all's right with the world.) They also come in both chromatic and metallic.

[Prak]

Dragon religion is weird. As I understand it, Tiamat is the mother of dragons, but usually only tied to chromatic dragons, and Bahamut the daddy of dragons, and tied specifically to metallic. Certainly they.. could have some divine explanation for Tiamat to be only the mother of chromatic dragons, and Bahamut the father of only the metallic dragons, but... generally back when this lore was written, if there's a "mother of x" and a "father of x," they boned, and everything else is religion.

That said... metallic dragons are sort of a "oh yeah, they exist, too" deal for me, so...