Matrix RPG?

[Prak]

So... lets say your group wanted to play a game set in the world(s) of the Matrix movies (et al). Because you're all nerdy and or queers.

I have a friend who has a big metaphorical hard on for using Mage with some refluffing for it, but I feel like that's more of a feel/philosophy with guns match than actually a good mechanical fit.

What would a Matrix rpg look like? Is there an already existant RPG that would be good for it? Maybe FATE, or, ...hell, maybe this is the one time that Quantum Bears a la PbtA actually works?

[angelfromanotherpin]

Assuming a 1st-2nd movie timeframe, I'd use Hero. Characters have extra stats and martial arts powers with an Only In The Matrix limitation, use a VPP for uploaded skills, and do super John Woo action sequences. Then they come back to the real world which they have to deal with as normals and things are hard.

[Prak]

Honestly, I'm thinking a bit more like the Animatrix, and especially Kid's Story and World Record. Which, admittedly, are more prelude stories for characters, but they speak a bit more to what I'm interested in a Matrix RPG. Specifically World Record, with the whole pushing beyond physical limits thing.

[Harshax]

Once reality is malleable couldn’t you use Frank’s cyber deck rules with shadow run, feng shui with magic, or as you say quantum bears.

It just seems an RPG in the Matrix is just one stat 2d6 and anything goes when I hit the TN.

EDIT: … because the gun-fu of Matrix isn’t even a requirement, when you can will black holes into existence or collapse buildings with your thoughts. The gun-fu is, in my opinion, having apprentice level understanding of will on reality.

[pragma]

I think SR4 would do a good job. Most of the matrix effects can be repaired with accept powers, and the system is ok at modeling a modern self otherwise.

[Prak]

Once reality is malleable couldn’t you use Frank’s cyber deck rules with shadow run, feng shui with magic, or as you say quantum bears.

It just seems an RPG in the Matrix is just one stat 2d6 and anything goes when I hit the TN.

EDIT: … because the gun-fu of Matrix isn’t even a requirement, when you can will black holes into existence or collapse buildings with your thoughts. The gun-fu is, in my opinion, having apprentice level understanding of will on reality.

Well...

Ok. So, there's kind of two parts to The Matrix, as a thing. One is the idea of malleable reality, of course, and it's a big draw-- as I cite above, the idea of World Record, where a character manages to push beyond what they know to be physically possible. And then there's the cyberpunk/gun-fu aesthetic, which is, honestly, also a big draw.

If you want to go all in on malleable reality, then, ok, sure, maybe Mage with some refluffing does work. Maybe your characters can abuse the code of the matrix to throw fireballs and teleport around and such.

But looking at the movies, honestly, that "apprentice level" gun fu thing is... really more the standard. Even Neo wasn't willing black holes into existence and collapsing buildings with a thought. I wouldn't necessarily go with something WoD, but I suppose you could look at that sort of thing in the terms of paradox and gauntlet. Like, sure, reality is malleable, but you're going up against the system, so you have to beat the Matrix on your "collapse building" roll, and even if you succeed, you're definitely going to attract Agent attention immediately.

And the gun-fu is... the safe option. Again, in WoD terms, gun fu is coincidental magic.

I think the gun-fu stuff would be better represented by something like baseline stats allowing pretty awesome feats, and then a sort of Hack pool, or something, that you can add points from to your roll to push beyond that awesome baseline.

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

So I've heard, people have used Mage the Ascension, or Mage the Awakening rules to attempt "Matrix" style games with reasonable success.

[Krusk]

I think SR4 would do a good job. Most of the matrix effects can be repaired with accept powers, and the system is ok at modeling a modern self otherwise.

This was my first thought. Any reason you wouldn't use SR4? No one plays a troll, and casting only works in The Matrix. Restrict spell options heavily, and you've got a good baseline.

[JonSetanta]

Yep my vote is for SR4.

[Harshax]

If you’re invested in Mage, which I think you are Prak, then yeah: gun-fu is far more coincidental than a black hole coming into existence in the middle of nowhere.

So, two questions:

Avoiding a black-hole vulgar event awakens the full effect of the matrix against you, yes? This seems bad because quantum bears keep showing up until you die.

Being subtle against the only enemy in the game seems to mean that even when you’re coincidental magic fails, you still wake up quantum bears and then you die.

The Matrix isn’t Shadowrun, because there’s only one bad guy. If you’re a world spanning intelligence, tracing bugs, errors or racy conditions in your human-powered-battery, reality, then you always put 100% of your effort to fixing the issues (pc’s)

So if the percentage of coincidental bullet dodging reaches a 99.9999% of probability, the matrix reacts the same every time.

If the PCs shoot for 98.9999% bullet dodging probability, the matrix would notice that too.

I guess what I think is that, while conceptually cool, the matrix is a god-fucking-awful setting for any game unless it’s a sandbox that rates your success by how long it takes you to fail. Because, success isn’t actually possible is it?

Edit: that was one question. Because two questions that result in never ending quantum bears seems rhetorical.

[NigelWalmsley]

I think if you were developing a Matrix-based RPG setting, you'd fudge it by having there be multiple different factions, none of which have full control over the Matrix because Technobabble. Different groups of machines fighting each other over whether to keep the humans in the Matrix, or kill them off for good, or make it better, or let them out, or just fuck off into space and leave the humans behind. And different groups in the Matrix, like people fighting to take over the Matrix and remake the virtual world in their own image, or rogue programs hiding from whoever's nominally in charge, or human quislings that the machines employ because whatever reason you want to give for humans being better at hunting other humans than AIs are. Basically, like most single-story settings, the first thing you need to do to make a TTRPG work in the Matrix is expand the setting to support more than the one story that happens in the films.

[Prak]

@Harshax: I'm not necessarily invested in Mage. I actually don't think it's a good fit for Matrix stuff beyond broad generalities and vaguely similar philosophy stuff. It's just a mutual language we can use to discuss things like the Matrix resisting hacking and agents responding.

Re: Factions- there actually are something like four factions in the existing trilogy. There are the humans and the machines, of course, but there's also the rebel programs, like the Merovingian, and then there's Smith, who's a faction unto himself. Each wants something different- humans want to free other humans. Machines want to keep as much control over the Matrix as possible as a means to keep a many humans in their power plants/supercomputers as possible. The rebel programs mostly just want to have their freedom in the Matrix and can have common cause with either of the former two factions, or make enemies in them. And Smith just wants to control everything (and kill Neo).

So that's already a good base to work from, and it certainly supports adding more factions. There can be more human factions, who have their own Zions or not, or who defected from Zion but didn't want to re-enter the Matrix. There can easily be multiple factions within the heading of rebel programs. Hell, you could have a game that is all about the Merovingian, and programs and awakened-but-not-freed humans who work for or against him. Honestly, almost anything to do with Smith beyond making him a superstition-esque shadow of his former self is about the least interesting story you could do at a table.

[Dogbert]

Feng Shui is a no-brainer considering Matrix was, first and foremost, a love letter to John Woo. Everybody needs to be kung fu fighting, and Feng Shui is the game for that. Just build archetypes around the Matrix' characters, and add additional "chosen one" superpowers available post character creation (because ALL PCs are "the chosen one").

Some people here may go for GURPS Martial arts or so, but if you ask me, over-the-top martial arts need too much freeform narrative leeway to be constrained by starting character points.