Rock Paper Scissors Design Does Nothing

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Im not the one redefining quotes Mersa. You got caught in a dumb moment. As a failed off hand gotcha in support of a spectacular "Money is success is goodness is balance!" idiocy. Live with it.

As for demanding I give advice on how to write a Pokemon RPG. Which is. Odd in its own right. Just another side gotcha, the post you were originally responding to, ALSO included me mentioning how important the ideas in this thread would be to writing a Pokemon RPG. So... whoopsees again I guess? It's like every time you turn around its a pie in your face that you put there yourself.

But an angry exhortation demanding I thread shit your personal threads...

... are you OK?

[merxa]

My only recommendation at this point is to consult a dictionary and to see a therapist. Best of luck to you.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

... that's two recommendations...

[Whatever Jr.]

But coming out and saying how much of a failure pokemon is absurd, pokemon is literally the most valuable IP in the world.

Let me repeat, the most valuable intellectual property right now in the world is Pokemon.

For someone complaining about redefining words and equivocating, you should consider your own word choice more carefully. the most valuable IP in the world is probably Microsoft's, by literal orders of magnitude when we compare it to Pokémon.

That "media franchise" list is bullshit for other reasons, but you're citing it to say something it doesn't even pretend to claim.

[deaddmwalking]

Phonelobster's original point is that any type of symmetrical cycle of strength/weakness (again, when read charitably) does nothing at best and is actively bad in most cases. Pokemon, as a TTRPG could work just as Star Wars, as a TTRPG could work. And not including the 'RPS style' mechanic would be a huge mistake because it obviously does something 'more than nothing'.

Now maybe I'm misunderstanding your definition of 'balance' and it specifically means any option is equally valid in all situations because you can't know what situations you'll actually face and if one option is 1% better and one option is 1% worse there's no balance, but that'd be crazy-talk straight from crazy-town. Balance is not a zero-sum winner-take-all kumite with only one option that everyone should play. Balance means you can argue with someone all day about who's better and not come to a clear consensus. That's actually pretty easy to achieve because I can find countless people arguing that Batman is better than Superman. Achieving balance that's Wolverine versus Cyclops is easier - especially if the conceit isn't that they're fighting against each other but finding ways to contribute toward achieving a shared objective.

[Whatever Jr.]

pokemon is a dogshit example because their actual chart looks like this:


Now here's a question: if you decided to re-do that chart to make it more symmetrical, to show clear patterns and visually pleasing arrangements, would that automatically improve the lingering balance issues that pokemon still suffers from?

Fuck no. You'd be lucky to have a neutral impact on balance, much less a positive one. In practice, you'd end up with relatively few pokemon dominating the new meta because of their stats and movepool. Same way things have worked in basically every generation of pokemon.

Turning the type chart from a random pile of shit into a highly polished turd won't change that. Then why bother? The symmetry takes away your ability to make actual balance changes (like fixing Steel type) and doesn't add anything to the gameplay itself. So fuck it.

[OgreBattle]

Here's an article on Tactical Wheels ("RPS") in fencing
http://thefencingcoach.org.uk/tfc/coach ... al-wheels/

It explains the use and limitations of such a concept, with a big emphasis that distance and timing will change "parry beats your attack" in motion. But in a turn based game we use dice odds for that.

Rock Paper Scissors is a game where you have options that beat other options, and you choose among them (Pokemon has 6 different Pokemon, each have 4 abilities, you can switch them). If someone is locked to Rock for the games it's not RPS in spirit anymore. R P and S need to be actions, options available to player characters of different archetypes, instead of the archetypes / class themselves.

Also keep in mind that adding range, distance to the game makes maneuvering around, blocking, bypassing an important part of the game that is separate or overlaps with what RPS combat you got. That fencing article talks about it.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

pokemon is a dogshit example because their actual chart looks like this:

Or, you might want the more complete chart accounting for dual type target match ups. https://www.serebii.net/games/typexy.shtml

Remember to scroll down. Keep scrolling down. You are about half way when they decide you need a reminder bar for the attack types. From there, keep scrolling down.

[erik]

Jesus it looks like a fuckin terrible game of Minesweeper.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Jesus it looks like a fuckin terrible game of Minesweeper.

One could probably make a horrible, backwards argument that Pokemon is basically a veiled, awful game of Minesweeper. It would probably be hilarious to read.

[OgreBattle]

Are D&D Devils and Demons and plantatreetoids and... werewolves and maybe other stuff consistent in what they're immune or vulnerable to? Or does it tend to be one off. I don't remember if all devils and all demons have the same resistances or if individual ones are different and don't want to spend the time looking it up.

[erik]

Are D&D Devils and Demons and plantatreetoids and... werewolves and maybe other stuff consistent in what they're immune or vulnerable to? Or does it tend to be one off. I don't remember if all devils and all demons have the same resistances or if individual ones are different and don't want to spend the time looking it up.

They're mostly the same but there's oddities.

Devils generally are vulnerable to Holy and Silver.
Demons generally are vulnerable to Holy and Cold Iron.
- I think there's at least one with DR/Admantine
- Demon and Devil elemental Resistances and Immunities follow a theme but have more variation where some may be immune to Cold if they are like Ice Devils or somesuch. Stronger ones get more immunities and weaker ones may have lesser resistances.

Werewolves just have DR/Silver, don't recall any deviations for were-creatures