Thinking...
Fire- Burns, Melts, Heats up Boils
Electricity- Conducts through metal n' water and so on, then burns like fire
Cold- Freezes freezables
Acid- Dissolves certain stuff. Maybe have Base too since you're being so thorough.
Piercing, Slashing, Bludgeoning: I think having some kinda hardness / armor save vs sheer force system will handle this, so you can have a mega magic diamond edge slice through steel.
Force?: Can be vibration based so sonic stuff, related to disintegration effects
Psychic? Has chance to introduce madness?: Think it can be combined with Positive, like speaking in tongues and spasming is a part of bible Making Contact with angel beings
Holy/Light/Positive
Unholy/Dark/Negative (Corrupting?) / Chaos (also radiation damage?) / Axiomatic? (should i even bother?): Could be radiation, mutation and destruction of life passing genes
Damage [Spellbound]
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Damage [Spellbound]
I have a few design goals and some of them are admittedly at contention with one another. I'd like to have a drop in replacement for d&d, and I want that drop in replacement to be closer in spirit to 3rd edition, especially some of the work 3rd edition did in unifying rule subsystems and supporting simulationist and emergent game play.Harshax wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:11 amAnd, if there is any criticism this is where it happens: what’s your design goal and what are the thematic elements you want to encourage?
You listed damage and sizes in a chart and also mentioned injury tracks and damage types and I’m not sure what’s important to you. And, I kind of think you’re asking the same question too.
Admittedly my original document had nothing related to damage [tags] having extra mechanical impacts or interactions, but in retrospect it's obvious I want this to happen, and this thread been really useful in making that apparent. Unfortunately, I haven't spent the time to consider and think about how to implement such a system.
Damage is also, so far, the largest departure from d&d, I was originally going to go with the traditional hit point pool, but a wounds system seems really interesting to me. Maybe I need to play more games with a wounds system, I mean I almost certainly should, but mechanically it can really reinforce ideas I already had on making a system that feels more dangerous and deadly. I'd like combat, at all levels, to end in roughly 3 or 4 rounds on average. And if per round resolution takes maybe twice as long as high level, that's ok, but I do want to avoid rounds taking an hour to resolve.
Looking at what I have, there's a clear problem with negative numbers, I sort of assume if i throw enough math at it I can make it work, alternatively maybe I should begin looking at a system that uses fractions, but that also seems like total bullshit. Part of the problem for me, is I don't especially care about modeling the battle between some ants and a beetle, and I think it'll take a lot, mostly magical, ants for a level 1 PC to even start to care about such insects attacking them, and that's exactly what I want -- a single ant against a commoner should always lose. Even a cat should largely be ineffective and certainly not deadly. Maybe I should award bonus toughness for wound boxes above an 'x' threshold? so causing wounds 1-4 is easier then wounds 5-10?
But to more directly answer you question on what's important, in terms of damage, I think I do want damage tags to be meaningful. I want size to matter, I want magic to help size matter in a larger range, I need to build out some swarm rules for the smallest sizes, and I may as well have these swarm rules interact from the micro into the macro scale. Fundamentally, I mostly want to get modeling a medium sized creature fighting another medium sized creature correct, and I rather get the scale up correct over the scale down. The range I want to try and model is from a flea to a blue whale.
Re: Damage [Spellbound]
Cats should be able to kill commoners by using special trip attacks to cause falling damage tho.
Re: Damage [Spellbound]
I have more to do, but I thought I'd put up the draft for what I have, which is detailing Fire,Cold,Electricity, and Acid. I'll continue the other 8 damage sources, but they are likely to be very similar in construction and method. Thanks in advance to anyone who provides feedback. The tables cited are at the end.
~
Damage sources have a moderate or severe secondary effect. When making saves, only make one save vs the appropriate effect and not both, ie if you take 5 cold damage you only need to save vs freeze, not both chill and freeze.
Fire
Cold
Electricity
Acid
Piercing
Slashing
Bludgeoning
Force
Psychic
Light
Dark
Chaos
Fire
Ignite
Burn
Melt
Every point of fire damage (applied before fire resistance) reduces chill by 3, and reduces freeze by 1.
Ignite
Whenever you take 1 or more fire damage you may gain the burning condition. Roll a toughness save DC 10+fire damage taken, on success you do not catch on fire. Otherwise gain burning 1,2,3,4 based on the amount of fire damage taken.
If you take 5 or more fire damage, you may gain the melt condition. Roll a toughness save DC 10+fire damage taken (If you are already burning, add burn amount to the save DC), on success you do not gain melt, but burning 4 instead. For every point above the success DC, reduce burning by 1, and at burning 0 or less you do not catch on fire. Otherwise subtract 4 from the total fire damage taken and gain melt equal to the remaining amount.
Burn
While Burning, you shed orange light in a 1m radius for every point of burn, other colors may be appropriate depending on the material on fire, double this radius for Large creatures, triple for Huge, etc. For Tiny and smaller creatures, cut this range in half.
At the beginning of your turn, Take additional fire damage equal to your burn condition, Apply any relevant fire resistance prior to the damage. Any objects that could reasonably act as an accelerant (such as lamp oil), must make a save vs DC 10+burn (see damaging objects) or catch on fire. Some objects may notably degrade from being on fire, such as clothing, generally apply all burn damage outside in – apply damage to any outside layers first before the inside, see table 1-a, multiple items may burn at once such as a shield, armor, helmet and cloak, roll a 1d3+1 to determine how many items ignite.
Anyone touching you or striking you with a non-reach melee weapon must make a Dex save at DC 10+Burn or take fire damage equal to your current burn.
You may spend 1 AP to put out any ongoing burn, but must have something that can extinguish flames such as water, and with a suitable flame retardant this is automatically successful. Otherwise make a DC 10+burn Dex save to reduce burn by 1d3. Without a suitable means to extinguish flames, you can spend 3 AP to smother yourself by rolling along the ground or the like, make a DC 10+burn Dex save to reduce burn by 1.
Every point of cold damage reduces burn by 3.
If you are on fire, and there is no reasonable accelerant, reduce your burn condition by 1 at the end of your turn. Otherwise assume any accelerant continues to burn until consumed (default to 1 minute or 6 rounds unless specified).
Melt
While melting, you shed a 1m radius blue light, other colors could be appropriate depending on the material melting.
At the beginning of your turn, take additional fire damage equal to your melt plus fire penetration 4, apply any relevant fire resistance prior to damage. accelerant (such as lamp oil), must make a save vs DC 14+melt (see damaging objects) or melt. Some objects may notably degrade from melting, such as armor, generally apply all melt damage outside in – apply damage to any outside layers first before the inside, see table 1-a for suggestions, multiple items may melt at once such as a shield, armor, helmet and cloak, roll 1d3+1 to determine how many objects are melting.
Anyone touching you or striking you with a non-reach melee weapon must make a Dex save at DC 14+Melt or take fire damage equal to your current melt plus fire penetration 4.
To reduce melt, you can apply cold damage which will reduce melt on a 1 to 1 basis until it becomes burn 4 at melt 0, otherwise you must be able to apply a large amount of fire retardant, such as jumping into a pool of water in which case reduce melt by 2 per round or burn by 4. Otherwise melting objects take time to cool off, reduce melt by 1 per pound per minute.
Cold
Wet
Chill
Freeze
Every point of cold damage (applied before cold resistance) reduces burn by 3, and reduces melt by 1.
Wet
Some cold damage may also apply the wet condition, but cold damage does not do this by default. While wet you more easily conduct and have disadvantage on saves vs electricity, jolt, and shock.
Chill
Whenever you take 1 or more cold damage, make a toughness save DC 10+cold damage or gain chill equal to the cold damage taken. You have -1 on to hit rolls and skill checks. If the ambient temperature is warm enough, chill reduces by 1 every ten minutes, otherwise in cold conditions chill remains without a source of heat (such as a bonfire), in which case it reduces at 1 per minute.
Freeze
When you take 5 or more cold damage, you make a toughness save DC10+cold damage or gain freeze equal to the cold damage taken minus 4. On success gain chill 4 instead, and reduce this by 1 for every point above the DC you rolled. If you already have chill when making the initial save vs Freeze, increase the DC by the amount of chill you have. On a failed save you freeze and cannot take any actions. Some objects can be destroyed when frozen, such as leather, similar organic materials, or liquids. Roll a save vs break for these items equal to the same DC.
At the beginning of your turn take cold damage equal to your freeze condition plus cold penetration 4. Make another toughness save DC14+cold damage, on success you can act during your turn but are still frozen and immobile. You can take any actions that are purely mental, or attempt to snap out of your icy prison. Use 2 AP, make a STR save vs the same initial DC, on success lose freeze and gain chill 4.
If the ambient temperature is warm enough, freeze reduces by 1 every minute, otherwise in cold condition freeze remains without a source of heat (such as a bonfire), in which case it reduces at 1 per round.
Electricity
Conduct
Jolt
Shock
Charge
Conduct
Electricity will conduct along suitable materials such as water or metal, whenever electricity touches such a material it will travel along it equal to the remaining distance and magical sources of electricity will travel along all conducting routes as well as its original destination.
Jolt
Whenever you take 1 or more electricity damage make a toughness save DC 10+electricity damage or gain jolt equal to jolt damage taken. At the beginning of your next turn lose 1 AP. At the end of your turn make another toughness save at DC10+Jolt, on success remove the jolt condition, otherwise reduce jolt by 1.
Shock
Whenever you take 5 or more electricity damage make a toughness save DC 10+electricity damage or gain shock equal to electricity damage taken minus 4. Gain Charge. At the beginning of your next turn lose 3 AP. At the end of your turn make another toughness save at DC14+shock, on success remove shock and charge and gain jolt 4. For every point above the success DC remove a point of jolt.
Charge
You are carrying a static charge of electricity. Whenever anyone touches you, strikes you with a conductive melee weapon, they must make a toughness save at DC14+Shock or take electricity damage equal to your shock plus four electricity penetration. If you happen to come into contact with any conductive surface it travels along that surface at 3m per point of shock, possibly impacting anything in contact with that surface. Additionally, any worn objects that can potentially explode such as gunpowder or alchemist fire, might get set off. Roll an object save vs destruction at the same DC as the initial save vs shock, on failure the object explodes. If an object explodes or you conduct to another creature, lose both your charge and shock condition and gain jolt 4 instead.
Acid
Corrode
Dissolve
Corrode
Whenever you take 1 or more acid damage make a toughness save DC10+acid damage or gain corrode equal to the acid damage taken. Corrode immediately damages any objects worn, going from the outside in, see table 1-a. For every point of corrode apply acid damage to an additional object, ie at corrode 2 apply acid damage to Shield and Armor. Damage applied equals the acid damage taken, some objects such as metal are particularly vulnerable to acid and may take additional damage as specified in the materials list. At the end of your turn corrode deals additional acid damage to all impacted objects, and if you do not have any worn protection, or that protection was destroyed, corrode deals additional acid damage (equal to the corrode amount) at the end of your turn. Reduce corrode by 1 at the end of your turn.
If you have sufficient water or other suitable substance you may attempt to flush the areas impacted, 2AP, make a DC10+corrode DEX save. On success reduce corrode by 1, and an additional 1 for every point above the DC.
Dissolve
Whenever you take 5 or more acid damage, make a toughness save DC10+acid damage or gain dissolve equal to the acid damage taken minus 4. Dissolve immediately destroys any objects worn going from the outside in, see table 1-a. For every point of dissolve, destroy an additional object. Magical items are allowed a save vs destruction at disadvantage, if the object is vulnerable to acid increase the DC by the amount vulnerable. At the end of your turn, dissolve destroys an additional object per point of dissolve. Reduce Dissolve by 1 at the end of your turn with dissolve 0 becoming Corrode 4. If you have no worn protection, roll an additional toughness save vs DC14+dissolve, on failure roll 1d6+dissolve and consult the damage location table (2-a) for the area impacted; much of it is lost, for numbers 9+ make a final toughness save D14+dissolve or immediately die, otherwise the impacted area is highly degraded.
If you have sufficient water or other suitable substance you may attempt to flush the areas impacted, 2AP, make a DC14+dissolve DEX save. On success reduce dissolve by 1, and an additional 1 for every point above the DC, dissolve 0 becomes corrode 4 which can also be reduced with a high enough save.
Piercing
Puncture
Impale
Slashing
Cut
Sever
Bludgeoning
Break
Crush
Force
Push
Explode
Psychic
Perturb
Dement
Light
Radiate
Disintegrate
Dark
Collapse
Implode
Chaos
Disrupt
Corrupt
Table 1-a
Outside in Damage Table for Worn Objects
1st Shield
2nd Armor
3rd Helmet, hat, or headband
4th Cloak, belt, backpack
5th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like)
6th Clothing
7th Stowed or sheathed weapon, belt pouch
8th bracers, bracelets, or necklaces
9th Rings
10th Undergarments, anything else
Skip irrelevant entries and use the next relevant one in the list.
Table 2-a
Damage Locations (Demihuman)
1 Toe
2 Finger
3 Nose
4 Ear
5 Hand
6 Foot
7 Arm
8 Leg
9 Shoulder
10 Hip
11 Chest
12 Back
13 Head*
* Sometimes you may need to distinguish particular parts of the head, you can roll an additional 1d6 and consult table 3-a or pick something suitable.
1 Left Eye
2 Right Eye
3 Mouth
4 Scalp
5 Neck
6 Roll twice.
~
Damage sources have a moderate or severe secondary effect. When making saves, only make one save vs the appropriate effect and not both, ie if you take 5 cold damage you only need to save vs freeze, not both chill and freeze.
Fire
Cold
Electricity
Acid
Piercing
Slashing
Bludgeoning
Force
Psychic
Light
Dark
Chaos
Fire
Ignite
Burn
Melt
Every point of fire damage (applied before fire resistance) reduces chill by 3, and reduces freeze by 1.
Ignite
Whenever you take 1 or more fire damage you may gain the burning condition. Roll a toughness save DC 10+fire damage taken, on success you do not catch on fire. Otherwise gain burning 1,2,3,4 based on the amount of fire damage taken.
If you take 5 or more fire damage, you may gain the melt condition. Roll a toughness save DC 10+fire damage taken (If you are already burning, add burn amount to the save DC), on success you do not gain melt, but burning 4 instead. For every point above the success DC, reduce burning by 1, and at burning 0 or less you do not catch on fire. Otherwise subtract 4 from the total fire damage taken and gain melt equal to the remaining amount.
Burn
While Burning, you shed orange light in a 1m radius for every point of burn, other colors may be appropriate depending on the material on fire, double this radius for Large creatures, triple for Huge, etc. For Tiny and smaller creatures, cut this range in half.
At the beginning of your turn, Take additional fire damage equal to your burn condition, Apply any relevant fire resistance prior to the damage. Any objects that could reasonably act as an accelerant (such as lamp oil), must make a save vs DC 10+burn (see damaging objects) or catch on fire. Some objects may notably degrade from being on fire, such as clothing, generally apply all burn damage outside in – apply damage to any outside layers first before the inside, see table 1-a, multiple items may burn at once such as a shield, armor, helmet and cloak, roll a 1d3+1 to determine how many items ignite.
Anyone touching you or striking you with a non-reach melee weapon must make a Dex save at DC 10+Burn or take fire damage equal to your current burn.
You may spend 1 AP to put out any ongoing burn, but must have something that can extinguish flames such as water, and with a suitable flame retardant this is automatically successful. Otherwise make a DC 10+burn Dex save to reduce burn by 1d3. Without a suitable means to extinguish flames, you can spend 3 AP to smother yourself by rolling along the ground or the like, make a DC 10+burn Dex save to reduce burn by 1.
Every point of cold damage reduces burn by 3.
If you are on fire, and there is no reasonable accelerant, reduce your burn condition by 1 at the end of your turn. Otherwise assume any accelerant continues to burn until consumed (default to 1 minute or 6 rounds unless specified).
Melt
While melting, you shed a 1m radius blue light, other colors could be appropriate depending on the material melting.
At the beginning of your turn, take additional fire damage equal to your melt plus fire penetration 4, apply any relevant fire resistance prior to damage. accelerant (such as lamp oil), must make a save vs DC 14+melt (see damaging objects) or melt. Some objects may notably degrade from melting, such as armor, generally apply all melt damage outside in – apply damage to any outside layers first before the inside, see table 1-a for suggestions, multiple items may melt at once such as a shield, armor, helmet and cloak, roll 1d3+1 to determine how many objects are melting.
Anyone touching you or striking you with a non-reach melee weapon must make a Dex save at DC 14+Melt or take fire damage equal to your current melt plus fire penetration 4.
To reduce melt, you can apply cold damage which will reduce melt on a 1 to 1 basis until it becomes burn 4 at melt 0, otherwise you must be able to apply a large amount of fire retardant, such as jumping into a pool of water in which case reduce melt by 2 per round or burn by 4. Otherwise melting objects take time to cool off, reduce melt by 1 per pound per minute.
Cold
Wet
Chill
Freeze
Every point of cold damage (applied before cold resistance) reduces burn by 3, and reduces melt by 1.
Wet
Some cold damage may also apply the wet condition, but cold damage does not do this by default. While wet you more easily conduct and have disadvantage on saves vs electricity, jolt, and shock.
Chill
Whenever you take 1 or more cold damage, make a toughness save DC 10+cold damage or gain chill equal to the cold damage taken. You have -1 on to hit rolls and skill checks. If the ambient temperature is warm enough, chill reduces by 1 every ten minutes, otherwise in cold conditions chill remains without a source of heat (such as a bonfire), in which case it reduces at 1 per minute.
Freeze
When you take 5 or more cold damage, you make a toughness save DC10+cold damage or gain freeze equal to the cold damage taken minus 4. On success gain chill 4 instead, and reduce this by 1 for every point above the DC you rolled. If you already have chill when making the initial save vs Freeze, increase the DC by the amount of chill you have. On a failed save you freeze and cannot take any actions. Some objects can be destroyed when frozen, such as leather, similar organic materials, or liquids. Roll a save vs break for these items equal to the same DC.
At the beginning of your turn take cold damage equal to your freeze condition plus cold penetration 4. Make another toughness save DC14+cold damage, on success you can act during your turn but are still frozen and immobile. You can take any actions that are purely mental, or attempt to snap out of your icy prison. Use 2 AP, make a STR save vs the same initial DC, on success lose freeze and gain chill 4.
If the ambient temperature is warm enough, freeze reduces by 1 every minute, otherwise in cold condition freeze remains without a source of heat (such as a bonfire), in which case it reduces at 1 per round.
Electricity
Conduct
Jolt
Shock
Charge
Conduct
Electricity will conduct along suitable materials such as water or metal, whenever electricity touches such a material it will travel along it equal to the remaining distance and magical sources of electricity will travel along all conducting routes as well as its original destination.
Jolt
Whenever you take 1 or more electricity damage make a toughness save DC 10+electricity damage or gain jolt equal to jolt damage taken. At the beginning of your next turn lose 1 AP. At the end of your turn make another toughness save at DC10+Jolt, on success remove the jolt condition, otherwise reduce jolt by 1.
Shock
Whenever you take 5 or more electricity damage make a toughness save DC 10+electricity damage or gain shock equal to electricity damage taken minus 4. Gain Charge. At the beginning of your next turn lose 3 AP. At the end of your turn make another toughness save at DC14+shock, on success remove shock and charge and gain jolt 4. For every point above the success DC remove a point of jolt.
Charge
You are carrying a static charge of electricity. Whenever anyone touches you, strikes you with a conductive melee weapon, they must make a toughness save at DC14+Shock or take electricity damage equal to your shock plus four electricity penetration. If you happen to come into contact with any conductive surface it travels along that surface at 3m per point of shock, possibly impacting anything in contact with that surface. Additionally, any worn objects that can potentially explode such as gunpowder or alchemist fire, might get set off. Roll an object save vs destruction at the same DC as the initial save vs shock, on failure the object explodes. If an object explodes or you conduct to another creature, lose both your charge and shock condition and gain jolt 4 instead.
Acid
Corrode
Dissolve
Corrode
Whenever you take 1 or more acid damage make a toughness save DC10+acid damage or gain corrode equal to the acid damage taken. Corrode immediately damages any objects worn, going from the outside in, see table 1-a. For every point of corrode apply acid damage to an additional object, ie at corrode 2 apply acid damage to Shield and Armor. Damage applied equals the acid damage taken, some objects such as metal are particularly vulnerable to acid and may take additional damage as specified in the materials list. At the end of your turn corrode deals additional acid damage to all impacted objects, and if you do not have any worn protection, or that protection was destroyed, corrode deals additional acid damage (equal to the corrode amount) at the end of your turn. Reduce corrode by 1 at the end of your turn.
If you have sufficient water or other suitable substance you may attempt to flush the areas impacted, 2AP, make a DC10+corrode DEX save. On success reduce corrode by 1, and an additional 1 for every point above the DC.
Dissolve
Whenever you take 5 or more acid damage, make a toughness save DC10+acid damage or gain dissolve equal to the acid damage taken minus 4. Dissolve immediately destroys any objects worn going from the outside in, see table 1-a. For every point of dissolve, destroy an additional object. Magical items are allowed a save vs destruction at disadvantage, if the object is vulnerable to acid increase the DC by the amount vulnerable. At the end of your turn, dissolve destroys an additional object per point of dissolve. Reduce Dissolve by 1 at the end of your turn with dissolve 0 becoming Corrode 4. If you have no worn protection, roll an additional toughness save vs DC14+dissolve, on failure roll 1d6+dissolve and consult the damage location table (2-a) for the area impacted; much of it is lost, for numbers 9+ make a final toughness save D14+dissolve or immediately die, otherwise the impacted area is highly degraded.
If you have sufficient water or other suitable substance you may attempt to flush the areas impacted, 2AP, make a DC14+dissolve DEX save. On success reduce dissolve by 1, and an additional 1 for every point above the DC, dissolve 0 becomes corrode 4 which can also be reduced with a high enough save.
Piercing
Puncture
Impale
Slashing
Cut
Sever
Bludgeoning
Break
Crush
Force
Push
Explode
Psychic
Perturb
Dement
Light
Radiate
Disintegrate
Dark
Collapse
Implode
Chaos
Disrupt
Corrupt
Table 1-a
Outside in Damage Table for Worn Objects
1st Shield
2nd Armor
3rd Helmet, hat, or headband
4th Cloak, belt, backpack
5th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like)
6th Clothing
7th Stowed or sheathed weapon, belt pouch
8th bracers, bracelets, or necklaces
9th Rings
10th Undergarments, anything else
Skip irrelevant entries and use the next relevant one in the list.
Table 2-a
Damage Locations (Demihuman)
1 Toe
2 Finger
3 Nose
4 Ear
5 Hand
6 Foot
7 Arm
8 Leg
9 Shoulder
10 Hip
11 Chest
12 Back
13 Head*
* Sometimes you may need to distinguish particular parts of the head, you can roll an additional 1d6 and consult table 3-a or pick something suitable.
1 Left Eye
2 Right Eye
3 Mouth
4 Scalp
5 Neck
6 Roll twice.